OT: Electric vehicles

[mildone]

also - when the model S was fairly exclusive in terms of rarity...the rich folks were drawn to it. now that tesla's are becoming the everyman EV...it's too proletariat to be exclusive and cool anymore.

Ooh, good word usage. I like it. And good point.

I see Model S's everywhere these days. Not very exclusive anymore.

On the plus side, I really appreciate that, unlike certain other car owners (Prius owners, I'm looking at you), Model S owners seem to understand to stay right except to pass, for the most part. And they'll move over quickly if you approach quickly from behind. So kudos to you Model S drivers.

But you freaking Prius owners... WTF? I was stuck behind one going 64 mph (in a 65) on 287 earlier today. By far the most common left-lane campers I've ever encountered. And they get offended when you pass them on the right. Flashing their lights angrily. LOL.

 

[mildone]

that's my favorite of the new EV's right now. there are a few taycan's around that i see as well, and those, while nice to look at, aren't as nice to look at as the audi, IMO.

I'm a Porsche guy. Really like most of their designs and especially like how well they do the whole magical driver engagement thing, even in their SUVs and, to perhaps a lesser extent, their sedans.

But I 100% agree. The Audi just looks awesome from every angle, inside and out, in both photos and in person. Just a great, great design job.

The Taycan looks pretty good in photos, looks even better in person. But it still has a couple angles where it's not so great, IMO. And isn't quite on par with the Audi, inside or out, stylistically IMO.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Lucid has started production. Deliveries begin end of October.

EV start-up Lucid begins production of flagship Air sedan ahead of customer deliveries

Electric vehicle start-up Lucid on Tuesday said production of its first cars for customers has started, with deliveries scheduled to begin late next month.

www.cnbc.com

 

[mildone]

Maybe you're both right. Maybe in New Jersey insurance is so expensive it really doesn't matter what you drive.

Did I ever mention that, after I got a ticket for 125 in a 65, (3 tickets actually, and I was really going more like 150 and the cop cut me a break), and went to court and wound up with two tix dismissed and the sole one pled down to 94 in a 65, that my insurance rates actually went down by a few dollars per year?

NJ Manufacturers sent me a letter saying they would conduct an investigation for the moving violation. I had lubed up my rear end expecting the worst. Then when they sent me the renewal paperwork, they included a page that said they'd done the investigation and that, as a result of the investigation, my rate changed to $#### which was actually lower than before.

I thought that has to be a mistake. But didn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

 

[mdk01]

Ooh, good word usage. I like it. And good point.

I see Model S's everywhere these days. Not very exclusive anymore.

On the plus side, I really appreciate that, unlike certain other car owners (Prius owners, I'm looking at you), Model S owners seem to understand to stay right except to pass, for the most part. And they'll move over quickly if you approach quickly from behind. So kudos to you Model S drivers.

But you freaking Prius owners... WTF? I was stuck behind one going 64 mph (in a 65) on 287 earlier today. By far the most common left-lane campers I've ever encountered. And they get offended when you pass them on the right. Flashing their lights angrily. LOL.

You must be the guy who who approaches me quickly when I'm doing 60 in a 50 on Rte. 4 passing a line of cars doing 45 and does the NASCAR draft trying to force me to 70.

 

[RUevolution36]

Ooh, good word usage. I like it. And good point.

I see Model S's everywhere these days. Not very exclusive anymore.

On the plus side, I really appreciate that, unlike certain other car owners (Prius owners, I'm looking at you), Model S owners seem to understand to stay right except to pass, for the most part. And they'll move over quickly if you approach quickly from behind. So kudos to you Model S drivers.

But you freaking Prius owners... WTF? I was stuck behind one going 64 mph (in a 65) on 287 earlier today. By far the most common left-lane campers I've ever encountered. And they get offended when you pass them on the right. Flashing their lights angrily. LOL.

anyone doing 65 on 287 in any lane is getting run off the road. easily the collectively fastest road i've been on in NJ, at least between bridgewater and morristown.

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

Did I ever mention that, after I got a ticket for 125 in a 65, (3 tickets actually, and I was really going more like 150 and the cop cut me a break), and went to court and wound up with two tix dismissed and the sole one pled down to 94 in a 65, that my insurance rates actually went down by a few dollars per year?

NJ Manufacturers sent me a letter saying they would conduct an investigation for the moving violation. I had lubed up my rear end expecting the worst. Then when they sent me the renewal paperwork, they included a page that said they'd done the investigation and that, as a result of the investigation, my rate changed to $#### which was actually lower than before.

I thought that has to be a mistake. But didn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

I had a dramatic overspeed encounter when I was 18 (140 in a 55, cop wrote it down to 90) and then again in my late 40s, driving an A4, at about a buck twenty, written down to, for some reason, 93. Careless driving summonses issued with both speeding tickets.

First time, I got reamed by the judge - big fine, 6 month suspension.

Second time, I took a lawyer (former prosecutor) to court with me and got the whole thing plead down to some little no-point violation.

Traffic court really is all about how much you can spend to avoid jail time. :)

 

[mildone]

You must be the guy who who approaches me quickly when I'm doing 60 in a 50 on Rte. 4 passing a line of cars doing 45 and does the NASCAR draft trying to force me to 70.

Nope. Not me. I never tailgate anybody. It's, by far, the dumbest common thing people do in cars (short of just driving into bridge abutments). It's even dumber than texting while driving, although not by much.

The physics of tailgating are very obvious - tailgating is flat out begging to die.

If I have to pass people, I slow way up and stay at a good distance and hope they see me and move over. If they don't, I'll eventually pass on the right. Carefully.

Even, if there's more than super light traffic, I will slow way down in the left lane when I approach bunches of cars that are in the right two lanes. Because you never know when somebody will pull abruptly into the left lane, either without looking or seeing a rapidly approaching car.

I drive very fast at times, given an open road. But I'm extremely cautious in how I go about doing it.

Also, I'm never on Route 4. 😃

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

You must be the guy who who approaches me quickly when I'm doing 60 in a 50 on Rte. 4 passing a line of cars doing 45 and does the NASCAR draft trying to force me to 70.

The correct thing to do is move over. It's annoying, I'll grant. But it's the right thing to do.

 

[mildone]

I had a dramatic overspeed encounter when I was 18 (140 in a 55, cop wrote it down to 90) and then again in my late 40s, driving an A4, at about a buck twenty, written down to, for some reason, 93. Careless driving summonses issued with both speeding tickets.

First time, I got reamed by the judge - big fine, 6 month suspension.

Second time, I took a lawyer (former prosecutor) to court with me and got the whole thing written plead down to some little no-point violation.

Traffic court really is all about how much you can spend to avoid jail time. :)

That is very true.

I researched and found a highly rated lawyer whose office was less than a mile from the courthouse. After she got the reckless driving and improper passing tickets dismissed, and got the speeding ticket knocked down to 94, she actually apologized to me because I got a 15 day suspension as part of the plea deal.

Apologize? Hell, I wanted to marry her.

 

[mildone]

The correct thing to do is move over. It's annoying, I'll grant. But it's the right thing to do.

I never camp out in the left lane. And unless I'm exiting or something, it's very rare that anybody is looking to pass me on the highway.

Keep right except to pass. How hard is that? Makes the highway much faster when everybody cooperates about that.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Ok, it’s timeless. LOL

eta: just for perspective, two cars that catch my eyes in town are Porsche Taycan and MB GT 4 door coupe.

I'm not suggesting Tesla's design will have the same legs as a Chanel suit, but it makes zero sense to change for the sake of change. All Tesla's look "modern" IMO. Buyers on months long wait lists agree.

And I agree about the Taycan. She's a beaut.

 

[mdk01]

The correct thing to do is move over. It's annoying, I'll grant. But it's the right thing to do.

While you're passing cars going 15 mph slower than you and you're 10 mph over the posted limit? That also raises the question where am I going to move to? If the right lane's wide open I'm there to begin with.

 

[mildone]

I'm not suggesting Tesla's design will have the same legs as a Chanel suit, but it makes zero sense to change for the sake of change. All Tesla's look "modern" IMO. Buyers on months long wait lists agree.

And I agree about the Taycan. She's a beaut.

I agree they look modern. It's not a style I like. But that doesn't mean it's "bad" (except for the Tesla truck and the yoke - those are just bad, IMO).

That's the great thing about having so many choices. People can choose what they like. So much great stuff to choose from.

 

[mildone]

While you're passing cars going 15 mph slower than you and you're 10 mph over the posted limit? That also raises the question where am I going to move to? If the right lane's wide open I'm there to begin with.

I can't speak for anybody else, but if there's no place to go because of traffic volume, than I just relax and settle in at a good safe distance. Once the overall speed drops below the speed limit, I typically move over to the far right lane because I can drive a little slower, leave a large gap to the cars ahead of me, and avoid braking and shifting.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Updated design language - designs get stale. See previous comments re: Tesla's designs.

Tesla has no need to update powertrain components, although I suspect as time goes by they'll need to make periodic, physical modifications to the platform to accommodate new electric motors or battery pack configurations.

They will need to update things like brake and suspension components, as "state of the art" changes. Ditto lighting systems, climate control systems, etc.

Typical manufacturers will bundle all the various changes into a single refresh cycle so that they can gain all of the planning and execution efficiencies associated with a single, model year-based change.

You may think there's no reason for Tesla to adhere to a model year update cycle because they're just so damn popular, but in the interest of fairness and objectivity, you should ask yourself what kind of sales they might be leaving on the table by basically producing the same exact car for half a dozen years. I know when I look at a Model S, I see the same car that was introduced nearly 10 years ago. Ask yourself - how easily can you, at a glance, distinguish between a new S and one that's half a dozen years old? You might say it doesn't matter, but consumerism is all about The Joneses and if Mr. Jones' car isn't immediately recognizable as "new" and "different" compared to his neighbor Jones' car, he's not going to be happy. He's going to buy a car that everyone can clearly see is new.

I was only referring to aesthetic changes.

Tesla is constantly tweaking the nuts and bolts of their vehicles. They don't do model years. In his teardown of a model Y, Sandy Munro noted 13 changes made within 3 months.

Tesla Shows ‘Speed of Thought’ by Making 13 Changes in 3 Months, Sandy Munro Shocked

In a rapidly changing marketplace, carmakers need to learn to think quickly, create and implement what they need real-time. At the moment, only Tesla operates this way. The slow speed of all other car manufacturers, unfortunately, slows down the speed of the world's transition to sustainable...

www.tesmanian.com

 

[mdk01]

I can't speak for anybody else, but if there's no place to go because of traffic volume, than I just relax and settle in at a good safe distance. Once the overall speed drops below the speed limit, I typically move over to the far right lane because I can drive a little slower, leave a large gap to the cars ahead of me, and avoid braking and shifting.

Not talking about solid traffic in all lanes. I'm talking a line of cars in the right lane going 45 and I'm in the left lane going 60 until I can get past them all and do 60 in the right lane. But that seems to offend some NASCAR wannabees.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Much like NJ.com putting "Rutgers" in a headline, "Tesla killer" (or iPhone killer, Bugatti killer, Wrangler killer) is just a way of pulling in eyeballs. Simultaneously ropes in Tesla fanboys and haters, all at once. People eat that shit up.

At this time, there are at least three brand-new EVs that do certain things better than any Tesla. And that's about all a "killer" ever actually does.

Agree. "News" has sadly deteriorated into clickbait. It's worse than ever. On top of that, a lot of people don't even read the clickbait article. They stop at the headline.

What are these EVs you speak of? I may want to trade in my model 3.

 

[mildone]

Not talking about solid traffic in all lanes. I'm talking a line of cars in the right lane going 45 and I'm in the left lane going 60 until I can get past them all and do 60 in the right lane. But that seems to offend some NASCAR wannabees.

Oh. I'm more patient and can wait until a driver who is engaged in passing until they find a gap, uh, finds it.

I was less patient when I was younger, like most people. I am learning to be patient in my middle age. LOL

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Ah, there you are. To be honest, I was kind of hoping you'd get irritated at my post and lob some gratuitous insults at me. 😃

Legacy auto is coming down the EV highway and most of the majors are gonna do quite well. Just a matter of time now.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it... The people who get the timing right for dumping their Tesla stock while it's high, then sit on the holdings while it crashes, then buy back in when it bottoms out (because I'm pretty sure it'll go way back up again pretty quickly) are gonna make a killing.

If I cared about money enough to pay attention to individual stocks, I'd buy in when it bottoms out myself, ride the climb, then sell. But money sucks. Is the root of all evil. I just can't be bothered to give it that kind of attention.

Toyota is doing everything in their power to halt electrification.

GM, Ford, and Stalantis just finished up greasing the Biden Administration to include hybrids in the latest EV credit proposal. Sorry to any hybrid owners, but they're POS and not a path to combat climate change.

GM, Toyota, Ford, and Volkswagen all asked the Second Circuit US Court of Appeals to reject stricter average fuel economy standards.

Can you say double talk? I have reasons for my skepticism.

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

I was only referring to aesthetic changes.

Tesla is constantly tweaking the nuts and bolts of their vehicles. They don't do model years. In his teardown of a model Y, Sandy Munro noted 13 changes made within 3 months.

Tesla Shows ‘Speed of Thought’ by Making 13 Changes in 3 Months, Sandy Munro Shocked

In a rapidly changing marketplace, carmakers need to learn to think quickly, create and implement what they need real-time. At the moment, only Tesla operates this way. The slow speed of all other car manufacturers, unfortunately, slows down the speed of the world's transition to sustainable...

www.tesmanian.com

First of all, that piece was maybe the deepest, slurpiest fanboy blowjob I've ever read.

It's also misleading - and you misrepresented it. Most of the changes he's talking about are changes between models. So Part A on a 3 is different from Part A on a Y? Oh, do tell!

And even if the "13 changes" (which were not clearly itemized) are between two examples of the same model, four months apart, that's not any kind of breathtaking feat. No doubt those changes were planned for quite some time and all you're seeing is the implementation schedule. Well, guess what? That's what we've been talking about. Conventional manufacturers make literally hundreds of small modifications to a car and implement them all at the exact same time! It's called a model year changeover.

 

[fsg2]

Agree. "News" has sadly deteriorated into clickbait. It's worse than ever. On top of that, a lot of people don't even read the clickbait article. They stop at the headline.

What are these EVs you speak of? I may want to trade in my model 3.

Rivian R1T, EQS and Lucid Air were the ones I had in mind.

 

[mildone]

Toyota is doing everything in their power to halt electrification.

GM, Ford, and Stalantis just finished up greasing the Biden Administration to include hybrids in the latest EV credit proposal. Sorry to any hybrid owners, but they're POS and not a path to combat climate change.

GM, Toyota, Ford, and Volkswagen all asked the Second Circuit US Court of Appeals to reject stricter average fuel economy standards.

Can you say double talk? I have reasons for my skepticism.

I'm not understanding what it is you are skeptical about. Corporations do what makes good business sense for them. That's what all these companies are doing. Including Tesla.

If they aren't in business, they can't do anybody any good (or harm). None of them, not Tesla or anybody else, is in business to make a better world. They're in business to make money, for their shareholders in particular. Period.

Which explains the actions of them all.

 

[mdk01]

Toyota is doing everything in their power to halt electrification.

GM, Ford, and Stalantis just finished up greasing the Biden Administration to include hybrids in the latest EV credit proposal. Sorry to any hybrid owners, but they're POS and not a path to combat climate change.

GM, Toyota, Ford, and Volkswagen all asked the Second Circuit US Court of Appeals to reject stricter average fuel economy standards.

Can you say double talk? I have reasons for my skepticism.

50% increase in mpg with a hybrid does not help against climate change?

 

[nick614]

50% increase in mpg with a hybrid does not help against climate change?

China is building 500 new coal plants you could have negative co2 output and it wouldn't matter.

 

[Pils86]

Rivian R1T, EQS and Lucid Air were the ones I had in mind.

Rivian appears legit, their truck has nice features and the reviews are good, and Amazon and Ford are investors.

 

[mdk01]

China is building 500 new coal plants you could have negative co2 output and it wouldn't matter.

But it wouldn't hurt. BTW, Germany has increased it's use of coal since they shut down their nukes. Seems when you have competing causes celebre climate sometimes loses.

 

[fsg2]

Rivian appears legit, their truck has nice features and the reviews are good, and Amazon and Ford are investors.

Yeah, it definitely looks like a nice market-first electric pickup option. Just hope they offer a larger bed in the future.

 

[jtung230]

I'm not suggesting Tesla's design will have the same legs as a Chanel suit, but it makes zero sense to change for the sake of change. All Tesla's look "modern" IMO. Buyers on months long wait lists agree.

And I agree about the Taycan. She's a beaut.

My styling comment is really pointed at the model S. I don’t think you need a total redesign. Just minor updates like what Porsche does with 911. I remember when the S got rid of the front grill. That was a good example. For a 6 figure car, it needs more than 0-60 time to sell. The model 3 and Y get a pass because of price point and haven’t been around as long.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I'm not understanding what it is you are skeptical about. Corporations do what makes good business sense for them. That's what all these companies are doing. Including Tesla.

If they aren't in business, they can't do anybody any good (or harm). None of them, not Tesla or anybody else, is in business to make a better world. They're in business to make money, for their shareholders in particular. Period.

Which explains the actions of them all.

You said it right there. I agree 100%.
Is cannibalizing their ICE business for EVs a good business decision or is it something they're being forced to do?

 

[RUevolution36]

You said it right there. I agree 100%.
Is cannibalizing their ICE business for EVs a good business decision or is it something they're being forced to do?

the best business strategy is to throw as many obstacles in the way of quick EV adoption in order to do a gradual transition from ICE to EV. and that's what they are trying to do. no carmaker is going to hang their hat on ICE being the predominant technology of the intermediate to long term future. however, if they can slow down the mandates, they can use the cash flow from the ICE business to finance the conversion of their facilities to EV instead of taking on huge debt to do a quick cutover. Tesla is able to do the ramp up because they don't have a legacy business to support and also have a seemingly endless supply of free money (OPM) to invest.

also...it buys time for them to build up their own technical capabilities re: solid state, or whatever else is on their product roadmap. if they're not convinced of traditional Li Ion, then slow is good for them.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

50% increase in mpg with a hybrid does not help against climate change?

No. That may be what the sticker on the car says, but it's not reality. Most hybrids have a piddly 7-10 kWh pack. Some have less. That's good for a few miles of low speed driving IF (big if) the owner actually bothers to charge their insignificant pack.
The reality is that hybrids are compliance cars that legacy auto puts out to avoid paying for regulatory credits. We've been dooped into thinking they're environmentally friendly.
Under the latest EV credit proposal, hybrids would be eligible for a $9K tax credit. That is absurd, and certainly not a path toward sustainable energy.

 

[mildone]

You said it right there. I agree 100%.
Is cannibalizing their ICE business for EVs a good business decision or is it something they're being forced to do?

A combination of slowly changing market conditions and various states' adoption of anti-ICE legislation is forcing their hands. Which is, probably, a good thing in terms of cutting carbon emissions. And kind of a neutral to good thing from a purely business perspective (they will sell cars and make profits regardless but they might sell some new cars more quickly as people make the switch to EVs ahead of their typical car buying schedule).

However, there is nothing in any of that which prevents them all from becoming quickly competitive w/EVs once they really decide to do so. Unlike pure EV companies, they can afford to take their time because they have plenty of revenue already. Gradual adoption makes good business sense for them right now.

Skepticism is always warranted when considering marketing hyperbole and executive-speak. But that's no less true of Telsa than it is for everybody else. It's so obviously and universally true that it really ought not require saying.

I mean, how often do we express skepticism that 4 out of 5 dentists recommend Crest? We don't bother expressing our skepticism because it's so well understood to be marketing BS.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

China is building 500 new coal plants you could have negative co2 output and it wouldn't matter.

Not true.
China just announced they will no longer build coal plants abroad.
While they do plan to build some domestic coal plants, it is not 500. And those plans are fluid. Stop lying.
China is doing more for electrification and renewables than the US. They've done a huge 180 in the last 10 years. They want to become the global leader in renewable energy. Unlike the US, it appears Chinese leadership actually understand science.

 

[nick614]

Not true.
China just announced they will no longer build coal plants abroad.
While they do plan to build some domestic coal plants, it is not 500. And those plans are fluid. Stop lying.
China is doing more for electrification and renewables than the US. They've done a huge 180 in the last 10 years. They want to become the global leader in renewable energy. Unlike the US, it appears Chinese leadership actually understand science.

You fall for communist propaganda too easily then

Despite Pledges to Cut Emissions, China Goes on a Coal Spree

China is building large numbers of coal-fired power plants to drive its post-pandemic economy. The government has promised a CO2 emissions peak by 2030, but the new coal binge jeopardizes both China’s decarbonization plans and global efforts to tackle climate change.

e360.yale.edu

 

[mildone]

No. That may be what the sticker on the car says, but it's not reality. Most hybrids have a piddly 7-10 kWh pack. Some have less. That's good for a few miles of low speed driving IF (big if) the owner actually bothers to charge their insignificant pack.
The reality is that hybrids are compliance cars that legacy auto puts out to avoid paying for regulatory credits. We've been dooped into thinking they're environmentally friendly.
Under the latest EV credit proposal, hybrids would be eligible for a $9K tax credit. That is absurd, and certainly not a path toward sustainable energy.

But hybrids still produce less emissions to travel the same distance as ICE cars. So, while not environmentally perfect, they are more environmentally friendly than ICE cars. And nobody with an IQ of 100 or more anywhere has been duped into thinking burning fossil fuels will ever be environmentally friendly.

If we are to use your inaccurate projection of people's gullibility with respect to hybrids, then we also get to apply it to EVs. Because, in the manner in which you mean it, people have also been "duped" into thinking that widespread global EV adoption is more environmentally friendly than it is, in reality, right now.

Hybridization is good. EVs are good. If we can figure out other forms of energy production that can work with cars, and that reduce or eliminate the use of fossil fuels, that'll be good too.

All the stuff w/regulatory credits or tax incentives and so forth are politics. Politics doesn't move at the speed of science and technology and never will. Or, to adopt your term, politics can always be counted upon to be absurd.

 

[nick614]

But hybrids still produce less emissions to travel the same distance as ICE cars. So, while not environmentally perfect, they are more environmentally friendly than ICE cars. And nobody with an IQ of 100 or more anywhere has been duped into thinking burning fossil fuels will ever be environmentally friendly.

If we are to use your inaccurate projection of people's gullibility with respect to hybrids, then we also get to apply it to EVs. Because, in the manner in which you mean it, people have also been "duped" into thinking that widespread global EV adoption is more environmentally friendly than it is, in reality, right now.

Hybridization is good. EVs are good. If we can figure out other forms of energy production that can work with cars, and that reduce or eliminate the use of fossil fuels, that'll be good too.

All the stuff w/regulatory credits or tax incentives and so forth are politics. Politics doesn't move at the speed of science and technology and never will. Or, to adopt your term, politics can always be counted upon to be absurd.

Batteries and the mining process and then their disposal is probably way more harmful to the environment than a gas engine.

Which is why I also dont consider wind or solar farms to be green energy since both destroy the local environment in the name of not releasing Co2. I think protecting the local environment is more important and if you want lower co2 it should be a mix of 80%+ nuclear and then hydro and natural gas making up the rest. Rooftop solar is fine but those things are still toxic when not useful.

 

[mdk01]

You fall for communist propaganda too easily then

Despite Pledges to Cut Emissions, China Goes on a Coal Spree

China is building large numbers of coal-fired power plants to drive its post-pandemic economy. The government has promised a CO2 emissions peak by 2030, but the new coal binge jeopardizes both China’s decarbonization plans and global efforts to tackle climate change.

e360.yale.edu

Yale? They're just a bunch of knuckle dragging Cro-magnons wearing MAGA hats. Nothing woke about them. [/sarcasm]

 

[mildone]

Batteries and the mining process and then their disposal is probably way more harmful to the environment than a gas engine.

Which is why I also dont consider wind or solar farms to be green energy since both destroy the local environment in the name of not releasing Co2. I think protecting the local environment is more important and if you want lower co2 it should be a mix of 80%+ nuclear and then hydro and natural gas making up the rest. Rooftop solar is fine but those things are still toxic when not useful.

True. No technologies are close to perfect.

We can only try to maintain as rapid a cycle of develop, measurement, and more development as possible. What we don't need are zealots insisting one technology (the one they're invested in, typically) is the only answer. That kind of unhelpful nonsense just hinders outside the box thinking and slows development of better and better solutions.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Ooh, good word usage. I like it. And good point.

I see Model S's everywhere these days. Not very exclusive anymore.

On the plus side, I really appreciate that, unlike certain other car owners (Prius owners, I'm looking at you), Model S owners seem to understand to stay right except to pass, for the most part. And they'll move over quickly if you approach quickly from behind. So kudos to you Model S drivers.

But you freaking Prius owners... WTF? I was stuck behind one going 64 mph (in a 65) on 287 earlier today. By far the most common left-lane campers I've ever encountered. And they get offended when you pass them on the right. Flashing their lights angrily. LOL.

Prius owners have competition to see who can get the best mileage on their cars. Prius has an "eco mode" setting. I totally agree that Prius drivers are the worst to be behind.