It pains to rag on the Ford Mach E, but Ford keeps having significant issues - battery malfunctions, roof issues and now coming up short on this safety test. Ford will sort these issues out, but this is not good for the brand.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Awesome. Except the driver gave the Mach E no opposite lock on the return. He essentially drive the car off the track.
Wake me up when someone reputable performs an emergency lane change test.
It doesn't matter how long you ramble on, a 7 kWh battery is insignificant.
In your previous dissertation, you said companies act in their best interest, yet you fail to see that hybrids are compliance cars (ICE in disguise) made to avoid paying for regulatory credits. We're talking hundreds of $millions in fines. More than "just politics".
Both Tesla and Hyundai passed the test, but I think you're on to something. I can clearly see Elon behind the wheel of that Ford.
That website has zero affiliation with Yale. Reading is fundamental.
Thank you for proving my point.You fall for communist propaganda too easily then
Despite Pledges to Cut Emissions, China Goes on a Coal Spree
China is building large numbers of coal-fired power plants to drive its post-pandemic economy. The government has promised a CO2 emissions peak by 2030, but the new coal binge jeopardizes both China’s decarbonization plans and global efforts to tackle climate change.e360.yale.edu
Try reading your own article.
I'm saying that with the Tesla and the Hyundai you can clearly see the driver turn the wheel to the left to initiate the recovery turn. Behind the wheel of the Mustang, he does not - which is why the car goes straight off the road. It wasn't understeer - if it was, you would note that in the wheel deflection angle.
So... what I'm hearing is that, no matter how eloquently, logically, persuasively, even brilliantly I have communicated to you, you are still failing to understand that your viewpoint about hybrids is almost, but not quite entirely wrong. 🙂
Okeydokey. Incidentally, I may be verbose, but at least my thoughts are my own. Which is far better than regurgitating anybody's marketing hyperbole and trying to pass it off as fact. 😉
Ah, such a competition would explain slow driving.
And I'm all for drivers who like to drive slowly (albeit at least the speed limit on highways please). Just don't like them doing so in the left lane with utter disregard for anybody who wishes to go faster. Would that be safer if it led to everybody else remaining behind at the same slow speed? Maybe.
But people do NOT remain behind. They pass on the right, which ultimately creates traffic backups, accidents, and lots more angry drivers on the road.
Suggest Googling 'Moose Test Mach E'. I'm not finding any videos showing the vehicle completing the test. Only fails.
It's assorted republishing of the same video.
You've dumbed your way out of this conversation.
reducing
Plug-in hybrids are an excellent short-term solution for a number of vehicles. One of them debuted today, the Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. A Jeep is the epitome of a vehicle you buy for longer trips, and an all-electric isn't up to the task yet. The 4xe offers like 25 miles of pure-EV driving, enough for short city trips, then a full tank of gas for longer trips. That's just fine and better than a high-priced EV variant few buy.
It's not as though the market is ready to buy all-electric in any segment, let alone all of them. Might as well be patient.
Plug-in hybrids are an excellent short-term solution for a number of vehicles. One of them debuted today, the Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. A Jeep is the epitome of a vehicle you buy for longer trips, and an all-electric isn't up to the task yet. The 4xe offers like 25 miles of pure-EV driving, enough for short city trips, then a full tank of gas for longer trips. That's just fine and better than a high-priced EV variant few buy.
It's not as though the market is ready to buy all-electric in any segment, let alone all of them. Might as well be patient.
Short term solution for what?
25 miles?!? 😲 Wow! Amazing. Of course that's only if the owner bothers to charge it. How big is the pack?
The thing that really burns my ass is that 25 miles of "pure EV driving" is also eligible for a $9K rebate if the latest proposal passes. How's that for corruption?
For cutting emissions and getting people accustomed to electric.
Gas is $4 a gallon ...they'll plug in if they can.
World isn't going all electric overnight.
You know what burns my ass? You EV drivers who are paying nothing to maintain the roads you drive on.
Who, in your mind, is "they"?
You've really opened yourself up in this thread. It's clear that you've ingested all of the Tesla marketing hype, that you've done deep dives into the various Tesla fanboi sites, but it's also very clear that you don't know all that much about cars - how they're designed, built, tested, etc. The very definition of a one-trick hooker.
The "moose test" as it is called, has been performed for years. Mercedes famously failed the test with the 1997 Mercedes-Benz A-Class. That failure initiated a recall, so it's a test that automakers take seriously. Mercedes responded by fitting all A-Class models with the electronic stability, lowering the suspension and increasing the car’s rear track width.
Please share any information I've provided throughout this thread that is incorrect.
Really? Not the $billions of tax dollars the fossil fuel companies have received over the years in perpetual corporate welfare?
You must mean GM. Ford didn't get bailed out during the Great Recession. Can't think of any other forms of welfare the fossil fuel companies get that the EVs don't.
That does too, on a macro scale. However, when my neighbors who drive Teslas gloat about not having to pay gas taxes and then complaining about the roads that my wife and her industry try so hard to maintain...it's personal.
For one thing, it's not formally known as "the moose test" in true automotive circles. It is properly called the emergency lane change test.
And yes, it is a standard test among reviewers - although not to the extent that it's "required" because it doesn't reflect a real-world test that is performed for any sort of certification purposes, either NHTSA or IIHS.
When it's performed by a **reputable** review staff, e.g. Car & Driver, it's performed at a single speed for all cars reviewed.
The problem with the test you've cited is that the testers are just a bunch of YouTube guys with their own channel (and they're Swedish), they don't conform to the normal ELC test protocol and, as has been pointed out, they make no attempt, re: the Mach-E, to fully execute the maneuver. This, by the way, is called out by a number of people who commented on the original video as posted on YouTube.
It's worth noting that the Michigan State Police have recently tested and accepted the Mach-E for service. This is important because MSP has, for several decades, been testing eligible vehicles under "max performance" conditions and publishing the results.
Didn't GM pay back the full bail-out w/interest? Or was it something else I'm thinking of?
Lol. The name of the game is subsidies, mostly carefully hidden in the tax code of many nations, by the politicians who remain in office primarily because of mega donations from ffs, the wealthiest industries in human history.
A not comprehensive list of those here (while people freak out about tax credits to EV and renewable energy companies that are infinitesimally minuscule in comparison)…
List of US Fossil Fuel subsidies from recent G20 report:
- Expensing of Intangible Drilling Costs
- Percentage Depletion for Oil and Natural-Gas Wells
- Domestic Manufacturing Deduction for Fossil Fuels
- Two Year Amortization Period for Geological & Geophysical Expenditures
- Percentage Depletion for Hard Mineral Fossil Fuels
- Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs for Hard Mineral Fuels
- Capital Gains Treatment for Royalties of Coal
- Deduction for Tertiary Injectants
- Exception to Passive-Loss Limitation for Working Interests in Oil and Natural-Gas Properties
- Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit (EOR) Credit
- Marginal Wells Credit
- Corporate Tax Income Exemption for Fossil-Fuel Publicly Traded Partnerships
- Excise Tax Exemption for Crude Oil Derived from Tar Sands
- Royalty-Exempt Beneficial Use of Fuels
- Royalty-Free Flaring and Venting of Natural Gas
- Liability Cap on Natural Resource Damage
- Subsidies for fossil fuels used in the residential sector
...and here's a BIG one: The US leases federal land to fossil fuel extraction at FAR below market rates, for way less than private landowners or state governments charge. The submarket lease rates are the single largest fossil fuel subsidy. They should all be rebid at modern royalty rates in open auctions.
That's energy companies. BTW, the coal breaks are actually an EV subsidy rather than an ICE subsidy. No cars run on coal but EVs charge with electricity produced using coal.
fossil fuel companies get an absurd amount of subsidies from the gov't.
i consulted for the tax functions at a couple of fossil fuel companies in OKC. they had dedicated teams to keep all their credits straight.
It's technical but huge. An insolvent company that gets debt forgiven typically loses what are called "tax attributes" to the extent of the bailout. One of those are net operating losses from the prior years which are carried forward to offset subsequent profits in a non-bankrupt situation. GM, under the terms of the deal, did not lose the carryforwards. So not only did the debt get wiped off their books, they got to offset their profits by the losses they were able to carry forward. Damn straight they were able to pay the government back, and the interest rate was lower than what the got wiped their books.
The weird thing here is that all of us here would be perfectly happy to note, without argument, that any car is unsafe if it fails a reputable safety test run by reputable people. None of us expects any manufacturer to be perfect (none are) and mistake-free. And none of us is interested in defending any manufacturer when such mistakes are made; we just want them fixed.
But the actual posted video shows a poorly run test, not a failed test. Even possibly intentionally bad as I'm not sure why the driver would've intentionally run off the way he did. It's worthless. The kind of thing that would only appeal to someone trying to sell a narrative to the point that facts become irrelevant.
Elon's going to lose his woke membership. He rattled as lot of cages, Biden, UAW, anti-nuke. Everyone but China
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/elo...biden-sec-anti-nuclear-sentiment-at-code.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/elo...biden-sec-anti-nuclear-sentiment-at-code.html
It's understandable that energy companies are getting subsidies. We burn through a lot of energy in this country. Ships, planes and tanks use a lot of fossil fuel-based energy making possible a national security argument. Pretty much everybody in the country benefits from cheaper, plentiful energy, one way or another.
Thus all the subsidies and so forth.
As we move more and more stuff off of fossil fuels, we'll see some of those subsidies dry up. And subsidies for the alternative forms of energy will increase.
Might be irritating to some, but since government is, theoretically at least, in the business of representing the people, and the people like cheap energy, there's a kind of logic to it.
I often drive in the right lane because I can zip by all those cars that go slow in the middle or left lanes.
More Tesla news in China.
Seems Tesla was sued by a man who bought a car that he was told had not been in any accidents, but was. That happens, and the court agreed that he was defrauded by Tesla and ordered Tesla to pay him what amounts to about $200K and change.
Now, Tesla is suing the guy for defamation because the guy, who was defrauded by Tesla, is making social media posts that are critical of Tesla. 😃
www.autoevolution.com
Maybe, if Tesla doesn't want people saying bad things about them, they shouldn't defraud people?
Seems Tesla was sued by a man who bought a car that he was told had not been in any accidents, but was. That happens, and the court agreed that he was defrauded by Tesla and ordered Tesla to pay him what amounts to about $200K and change.
Now, Tesla is suing the guy for defamation because the guy, who was defrauded by Tesla, is making social media posts that are critical of Tesla. 😃
Tesla Sues Chinese Customer That Won Lawsuit Against the Company for Defamation
We told you the story of Han Chao last September 21. This Tesla customer won RMB1,518,800 ($234,948 at the current exchange rate) from the company after winning a lawsuit against it. The Chinese courts decided Tesla committed fraud by selling him a defective and crashed car after claiming that...
Maybe, if Tesla doesn't want people saying bad things about them, they shouldn't defraud people?
More Tesla news in China.
Seems Tesla was sued by a man who bought a car that he was told had not been in any accidents, but was. That happens, and the court agreed that he was defrauded by Tesla and ordered Tesla to pay him what amounts to about $200K and change.
Now, Tesla is suing the guy for defamation because the guy, who was defrauded by Tesla, is making social media posts that are critical of Tesla. 😃
Tesla Sues Chinese Customer That Won Lawsuit Against the Company for Defamation
We told you the story of Han Chao last September 21. This Tesla customer won RMB1,518,800 ($234,948 at the current exchange rate) from the company after winning a lawsuit against it. The Chinese courts decided Tesla committed fraud by selling him a defective and crashed car after claiming that...
Maybe, if Tesla doesn't want people saying bad things about them, they shouldn't defraud people?
Now we know one of the reasons Musk has held back his criticism of China.
China has acknowledged Tesla's existence, unlike the current admin. You would think with all the pre and post election talk of electrification, the president would have at some point said the words "Tesla" or "Elon Musk". He hasn't... literally. Biden called GM and Ford the "leaders of electrification". If that's not corruption, I don't know what is.
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