OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Wait, a politician making grandiose statements about a couple American companies? Shocking! Pure corruption. A Dem politician talking positively about a union shop or two is completely unheard of!
Clearly a deep state conspiracy against Tesla. Perhaps Congress will produce a couple MEMOs about it.
Perhaps more important than any of this Tesla nonsense is the fact that the Lamborghini LP-400S Countach used in the filming of "Cannonball Run" was just named to the Library of Congress National Historic Vehicle Registry.
That archive previously contained 29 specific cars - this particular Countach is #30.
That archive previously contained 29 specific cars - this particular Countach is #30.
Do the letters UAW mean anything to you? If you define that as corruption so be it.
A quarterly assessment means a LOT of bureaucratic, err, administrative costs. Hell, the pension cost would probably eat up the revenue cause isn't the annual electricity usage the equivalent to a 100 watt bulb? Maybe it could be done annually, but they'll be dealing with a lot of pissed off voters.
need to do quarterly so that you can pay the bills for the road work during the year. also, less painful on those who didn't budget for it. easier to pay $150 every 3 months than $600 at the end of the year for many...might be the same amount, but hits different.
The current strawman proposal is 1.7 cents / mile.
If you drive 15,000 miles per year then your share of the bill amounts to $255.00.
yea, i just picked a random number out of thin air...that sounds reasonable though.
FWIW, total gas tax burden for a NJ resident is $00.424 / gallon. So for that same person, driving 15k miles / year and assuming a vehicle that averages 24 mpg (overall combined) then total tax paid is $265.00. So that 1.7 cents/mile VMT is pretty spot-on with regard to current tax burden.
A VMT is a more equitable way to manage cost sharing of the road maintenance costs. I don't care if you're driving a zero emissions EV or a 9 MPG gas guzzler. Your wear and tear of the road system is going to be quite similar.
Precisely.
The challenge to the concept has always been with reporting. How does the government know how many miles you drive? Vehicle to Infrastructure communications solves the problem (and many more, as well) but there's been an obvious outcry from people who don't like the idea of reporting their various comings and goings to the government.
The solution may ultimately lie in an additional data filter onboard the vehicle ECU which reports total miles driven but omits any location data.
but wouldn't that still mean that there would be an uplink from the vehicle to gov't databases? likely over a 4G or 5G network? "they" can approximate your location based on which cell tower the car is uploading data from...
That's a bit of a leap of faith. Especially if there's any Chinese content in the car 😉
EVs weigh more. So the wear will be even greater than ICE cars. Gotta charge them, or maybe just Tesla, extra. 🙂
Sounds like a song from America after a bad acid hit.
Incidentally, this is an example of a song that's almost entirely "made" by the bass playing.
Yes, there's an assumed link. But no, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the government would have any greater access to your vehicle transmitter than they do your cell phone. There are already laws in place which govern that.
Consider that there are already two ways that toll authorities and various 3rd parties can collect tracking data - and that there are safeguards built in to those methods.
Currently, toll tags are tracked, generally on toll roads, to provide transit time data which in turn feeds congestion mapping algorithms and travel time functionality (i.e. the dynamic message signs that say "Travel time to I-78: 18 minutes"). There are toll tag readers set up on the roadways that pull tag data and immediately encrypt the tag address. That encrypted address is maintained for as long as that tag is reporting on the roadway, then after some period of inactivity, i.e. the tag hasn't been heard from after 180 minutes, the whole thing is dropped.
The traffic heat maps that you get from your GPS apps, Google Maps, etc., are built the same way, except they don't rely on toll tags. They use Bluetooth MAC addresses, which are continuously broadcast from every Bluetooth device in the car - the car's own onboard system, your phone and anything else you have on you that's BT enabled. The system architecture is the same. The received data is encrypted, utilized as input to the travel time algorithms, then thrown away.
There's always a way to protect privacy, within the realm of the applicable technology. What it doesn't necessarily protect you against is bad actors. But those bad actors, when it comes to personal data used by roadway systems, are never the fed. It's almost always local law enforcement, as exemplified by the number of local agencies that have recently found themselves in hot water due to misuse of LPR (License Plate Reader) systems. Our local cops have had all of their vehicle-mounted LPR systems taken away.
So how does all this relate to VMT data collection? Because there are already private companies which are contracted to manage tolling systems. Those companies could easily be contracted to collect transmitted VMTY data, then feed that data to the tax authorities. It puts an additional privacy buffer between your information and the government.
White House holds an EV summit and doesn't mention the American company that it the global EV leader. You're right, nothing to see here. I get that you get off on being an asshole contrarian, who won't concede the most obvious observations, but this makes 2 EV threads you've ruined. Well done.
Ruined? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
We're 20 pages in and there's lively continuing conversation that consistently revolves around EVs. Even when it veers very slightly off topic for a bit, as all good long-lived threads do, it perpetually winds up firmly on topic with more posts about EVs.
But it's "ruined" because it's not constrained to only talking about EVs the way YOU want to talk about them? 😃
There are plenty of other forums where he can go to worship. And probably does. Don't see why he expects that same circle jerk here
If you don't want to see the obvious reason I already posted that's your problem. Sorry if I interrupted your paying homage.
Registration tax is the way to go, VMT becomes another government bureaucracy, high priced IT, people cheating, hire enforcement, clog courts, on it goes.
Road damage is caused by vehicle weights. Cars hardly damage roads at all - trucks are the problem.
Chart of the Day: Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels
Via Pedal Fort Collins, here’s a simple chart showing the basic relationship between vehicle weight and the amount of “damage” or wear that is caused to the roadway. The relations…
streets.mn
Road damage is caused by vehicle weights. Cars hardly damage roads at all - trucks are the problem.
Chart of the Day: Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels
Via Pedal Fort Collins, here’s a simple chart showing the basic relationship between vehicle weight and the amount of “damage” or wear that is caused to the roadway. The relations…
First of all - please, just for once, cite a source that as some actual math behind it.
Second, roads are damaged primarily by weather. Vehicle loads are very much secondary. In the northeast and midwest the freeze/thaw cycle is singularly responsible for the majority of road wear. Similarly trafficked roads in the south will have comparatively little damage.
The freeze/thaw cycle obviously contributes to road damage, but primarily because heavy trucks used the facility. This is why neighborhood collectors have a lot less damage than arterials - trucks.
They have less traffic, period.
And you are not correct. Yes, vehicle weight exacerbates road wear. Weather is the key factor.
Weather should not be so much of a factor. Where you see lots of weather-related road damage is because the contractor used the wrong pavement mix or didn't properly prepare the sub-surface. I don't mean to put this all on the contractors - there are many times where the project wasn't properly scoped or budgeted.
Just plain wrong. But thank you for your input.
Exactly.
Sub standard work on roads in this country has been the problem for decades.
Ever driven in Germany? I have on many occasions and quality of highways/roads is like night and day. And the Autobahn gets plenty of Tractor trailer traffic from the all the connecting European countries. Roadbed and surface measures 68 cm ( 27 inches) in Germany.
That’s double of the depth of roads in the US. Oh and freeze resistant concrete is used.
Can our soil conditions support 2 ft of pavement on top? Can the utilities that are underneath the roads be maintained or accessed with that much Pavement? Just saying that we have "substandard" roads is an oversimplification. Our roads are constructed to standard almost every time. Not to mention that everyone would freak out if DOT put out a capital program that would even attempt to fulfill your nonsense fantasy.
Are you a civil engineer? My wife is. A highway engineer specifically. I've asked these questions before and it's very clear that there's a lot more that goes into it than a moron on a message board pontificating about something they know nothing about.
The point was whether the weather or vehicle weights causes the most damage to roads. In places where freeze-thaw is a real problem, there is all the greater need to build roads to a proper standard. Your wife raises real world issues why many roads can't be properly paved. But that's a problem of engineering and constructability - not of the question of vehicle weights versus weather.
Tesla continues the compounding growth of vehicle deliveries. An amazing story that looks to continue with new plants coming on line soon in Austin and Berlin.
