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OT: Electric vehicles

Let's not get too carried away, there, tiger.
TBH, most of the time, I kind of like it when they get carried away like that. It's oddly entertaining to watch people get all competitive about their brand choices.

I should start a thread about paper products in which I extol the virtues of Bounty, The Quicker Picker Upper. I can regularly post stuff in which I speculate that Brawny bet on the wrong manufacturing process, and may never catch up. I can pull charts down from Proctor and Gamble's website, call it data, and refer to myself as informed about paper products.

And when anybody dares to disagree that Bounty's the best, I can claim they're ignorant because they didn't attend Proctor and Gamble's Paper Products Day presentation to learn all about the great advances in combining strength AND softness in a single sheet of toilet paper. 🤣🤣🤣

I mean, this is stuff about which I really give a shit.

Damn, if I don't I love it when my weekend starts up with a good laugh.
 
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The cybertruck is even uglier than I had thought . . .

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TBH, most of the time, I kind of like it when they get carried away like that. It's oddly entertaining to watch people get all competitive about their brand choices.

I should start a thread about paper products in which I extol the virtues of Bounty, The Quicker Picker Upper. I can regularly post stuff in which I speculate that Brawny bet on the wrong manufacturing process, and may never catch up. I can pull charts down from Proctor and Gamble's website, call it data, and refer to myself as informed about paper products.

And when anybody dares to disagree that Bounty's the best, I can claim they're ignorant because they didn't attend Proctor and Gamble's Paper Products Day presentation to learn all about the great advances in combining strength AND softness in a single sheet of toilet paper. 🤣🤣🤣

I mean, this is stuff about which I really give a shit.

Damn, if I don't I love it when my weekend starts up with a good laugh.
Bounty is the best. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. I'll virtual fight you if you don't agree.
 
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Toyota and Honda kind of bet the farm on fuel-cell vehicles a decade ago. They may never catch up on the EV front. We may see some inroads on fuel-cell trucks. I just don't see them in the passenger car market. Maybe South Korea, but doubtful elsewhere.
There's a reason for this. The Japanese government has a hydrogen fascination and has been dangling $billions in hydrogen incentives.

https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/japan-looks-to-promote-a-hydrogen-society/

https://newatlas.com/energy/japan-hydrogen-policy-failure/

Toyota and Honda lose the most customers to EVs. Reason? They don't make any.
 
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Hydrogen is zero emissions, right? Having a multitude of options is not a bad thing. There are use cases for all. Horses for courses.

Yes, hydrogen fuel is ZE. However, creating hydrogen fuel is extremely energy intensive. If coal plants are used to create hydrogen, that's a problem. OTOH, using renewables for hydrogen creation may make more sense.

 
In your case, you didn't have clear visibility. Doesn't really apply to the FSD beta update situation.

And yes, to answer @Andy117 , I have heard of instances where people got nailed for rolling stops, but again, FSD beta was only doing this when there was clear visibility in all directions.
For some cops it doesn't matter. If they're in the mood to write it up they're gonna if you roll through even if there's nothing coming.
 
I just stumbled upon one of the more promising hydrogen vehicle designs on Indiegogo ...not looking good for that one.

How do you go from Pininfarina (admittedly the Mahindra version, but still) designing your car to hawking the project on Indiegogo? Shoulda at least held out for Kickstarter.
 
Hydrogen is zero emissions, right? Having a multitude of options is not a bad thing. There are use cases for all. Horses for courses.
Splitting hairs but it emits water/vapor and a little heat. I once saw a guy drink the water emission from a hydrogen car, nothing but H2O. The size and pressure of hydrogen tanks make it not suitable for cars.
 
Starting to see a lot of Rivian Amazon trucks. Pretty cool. FYI, Investor Day for Tesla on Wednesday! Do they announce a sub $30k EV?
 
Starting to see a lot of Rivian Amazon trucks. Pretty cool. FYI, Investor Day for Tesla on Wednesday! Do they announce a sub $30k EV?
More like $20-25k imo. New 3rd generation vehicle platform. Major reductions in production costs & manufacturing complexity. Might be more than 1 new vehicle announced. Tesla energy roadmap as well.

Main topic for Wednesday is tonnage. Scaling to extreme size. How do they plan to attack the bottlenecks in the battery supply chain? None of this works without the batteries. The spice must flow.
 
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More like $20-25k imo. New 3rd generation vehicle platform. Major reductions in production costs & manufacturing complexity. Might be more than 1 new vehicle announced. Tesla energy roadmap as well.

Main topic for Wednesday is tonnage. Scaling to extreme size. How do they plan to attack the bottlenecks in the battery supply chain? None of this works without the batteries. The spice must flow.
I wonder if TSLA will end up buying Sigma Lithium and continue with their vertical integration?
 
More like $20-25k imo. New 3rd generation vehicle platform. Major reductions in production costs & manufacturing complexity.
Exactly. The Toyota of EVs.

How do you reconcile me being so right about so much stuff all the time with your constant urges to insult my intelligence (he says, apparently teeing one up for you but actually laying a trap)? 😃

Main topic for Wednesday is tonnage. Scaling to extreme size. How do they plan to attack the bottlenecks in the battery supply chain? None of this works without the batteries. The spice must flow.
Oh wow. That's sooooo exciting. Terribly sad that I'll have to miss it.
 
I wonder if TSLA will end up buying Sigma Lithium and continue with their vertical integration?
They're definitely getting into the lithium refinery business with their own refinery in Corpus Christi, Tx.
At the last few earnings calls, the team has said they do not want to get into the mining business, but if they're forced to, they will.
 
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The U.S. New-Vehicle Market is Becoming a Luxury Market​

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-i...w-vehicle-market-is-becoming-a-luxury-market/

MARKET SHIFT IN NEW-VEHICLE PRICING SEGMENTS​



Market-Shift-2017-to-2022-Dec-Sales-chart-for-post.jpeg
I would dispute that use of price as the differentiator between luxury and non-luxury.

Prices are going up because of various things, supply-chain issues, inflation, improvements in the state of the art in marketing, etc. But neither quality nor luxuriousness of the products are not rising at anything remotely like the same rate as pricing.

I'm not saying consumers aren't opting for more luxuriousness (maybe they are, I don't know). Just saying that evidence for that should be made based on trim levels, brands, or models chosen and not price.
 
I would dispute that use of price as the differentiator between luxury and non-luxury.

Prices are going up because of various things, supply-chain issues, inflation, improvements in the state of the art in marketing, etc. But neither quality nor luxuriousness of the products are not rising at anything remotely like the same rate as pricing.

I'm not saying consumers aren't opting for more luxuriousness (maybe they are, I don't know). Just saying that evidence for that should be made based on trim levels, brands, or models chosen and not price.
a comparison of % of price increase across different models vs % sales growth of same models would be a good indicator
 
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Charging on the go is neither easy nor fast.

YouTube personality Steve Hammes leased a Hyundai Kona Electric sport utility vehicle for his 17-year-old daughter Maddie for three reasons: it was affordable, practical and allowed Maddie to put her cash toward college, not fuel. Now, the upstate New York resident has a dilemma many EV owners can relate to: finding available charging stations far away from home.

"We're going through the planning process of how easily Maddie can get from Albany to Gettysburg [College] and where she can charge the car," Hammes told ABC News. "It makes me a little nervous. We want fast chargers that take 30 to 40 minutes -- it would not make sense to sit at a Level 2 charger for hours. There isn't a good software tool that helps EV owners plan their trips."

Last week the Biden administration said Tesla would open its Supercharger network to non-Tesla owners by the end of 2024. The plan includes 3,500 Tesla fast chargers and 4,000 of its slower, Level 2 chargers -- a small number in Tesla's sprawling network. Setting up an account on Tesla's app is also required for access.


John Voelcker, an industry expert on EVs and the former editor of Green Car Reports, said this arrangement will allow Tesla to learn a lot about U.S. drivers -- "how you charge, where you drive and what car you have." He does not expect Tesla to commit to additional charging stations.
"Tesla does not want its highly reliable and tightly integrated charging network to be clogged with people whose cars can't charge as fast as Teslas," he told ABC News.

President Joe Biden prioritized emissions-free vehicles in the 2021 infrastructure law, vowing to increase the number of green vehicles on America's highways and local roads. The president's goals include installing 500,000 new chargers across the U.S. and dramatically boosting EV sales by 2030.
Steve Hammes leased a 2020 Kona Electric for his teenage daughter Maddie. He recently installed a home charger in his upstate New York garage.
Courtesy of Steve Hammes
Voelcker said he's seen little improvement in the nation's charging infrastructure in the last four years and frequently hears complaints of dead chargers and sticky cables.
"The incentive right now is to get stations in the ground," he said. "It's not making sure they actually work."
A driver charges his electric vehicle at a charging station as the California Independent System Operator announced a statewide electricity Flex Alert urging conservation to avoid blackouts, Aug. 31, 2022, in Monterey Park, Calif.
Frederic J. Brown/AFP via Getty Images
Tony Quiroga, editor-in-chief of Car and Driver, has been forced to wander the aisles of a Walmart in Burbank, California, while the EV he's testing that day sits and charges. He's become a familiar face at a Mexican restaurant in Mohave, California, where a Tesla charger is located. A coffee shop recently opened nearby that caters specifically to EV drivers.
"I imagine an ecosystem will be built around charging stations eventually," he told ABC News. "Longer trips bring up flaws with EVs. People are leery of taking them on long trips -- that's why older EVs don't have 40,000 miles on them."

Sandwich chain Subway announced Wednesday it was partnering with GenZ EV Solutions to build "Oasis Parks" at select dining locations. EV customers can expect charging canopies with multiple ports, picnic tables, Wi-Fi, restrooms, green space and playgrounds to make the charging experience more "seamless," Subway said.
Subway said it will install "Subway Oasis" charging parks at select locations-charging canopies with multiple ports, picnic tables, Wi-Fi, restrooms, green space and even playgrounds.
Courtesy of Subway Restaurants
Last March Swedish automaker Volvo and Starbucks said they were teaming up to install as many as 60 DC fast chargers at 15 Starbucks stores along a 1,350-mile route that spans from Seattle to Denver.
Quiroga's sister, who lives in Northern California, takes her internal combustion car -- not her Tesla Model S -- when she needs to drive across the state. Even Quiroga's team of reporters has to carefully plan and calculate how far EV charging stations are when they conduct comparison tests among manufacturers.
"These comparisons tests are a logistical nightmare. We plan meals around recharging the vehicles," he said. "We need to have the battery at 100% or close to it to test a vehicle's performance. We have to time everything -- it requires more work."
In December, Quiroga was in Florida driving BMW's luxury i7 all-electric sedan. He watched as its range dropped from 240 miles to 220 as soon as he turned on the heat.

"You use the luxuries ... and the range plummets," he said.
Sharon Bragg of Clifton Park, New York, has to charge her Ford Mustang Mach-E GT more frequently in the winter months. The GT's EPA rating is 270 miles on a full charge. Bragg said it's closer to 200 in the colder weather. Last December a Level 2 charging plug got stuck in her Mach-E and would not budge. After multiple failed attempts by bystanders, she called an electrician, who blew hot air on the plug for 20 minutes to release it.
"The whole process took two hours," she told ABC News. "I was in the parking lot from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. It was a cold day."
Bragg said her parents, who also bought a Mach-E, have complained of broken public chargers and endless lines. Sometimes they drive for miles before they can find a public charger that's working properly, she said. Bragg, a former minivan owner, is still enamored with her electric SUV despite the winter challenges.
"I love the tech and the giant screen [inside] won me over," she said. "The only time I go to a gas station now is to buy coffee."

Quiroga of Car and Driver said the "teething pains" EV owners previously experienced have greatly improved.
"Where we are now versus 10 years ago -- it's radically different," he said. "Range has tripled, even quintupled. Look at the Lucid Air -- it gets over 500 miles of range in a single charge."


Voelcker pointed out that the bulk of charging for EV owners takes place at home, not on the road. The majority of owners use public chargers two or three times a year, he said.
"The more you live with an EV, you don't have to take every last opportunity to charge it," he said. "It's rare that you cover 250 miles in a day."
Florida resident Jared Rosenholtz, editor at large at CarBuzz, has downloaded at least eight apps on his phone from companies like EVgo, Electrify America, ChargePoint and Shell Recharge so he can "juice up" the EVs he's tasked with reviewing. The apps clutter his phone -- and even worse -- require an outstanding balance to use.
"It's like having an E-ZPass account," Rosenholtz, an apartment dweller, told ABC News. "If your account balance gets low, the app pulls from your credit card on file and charges another $10."
He added, "I probably have $8 to $10 in each of these apps, just sitting there."

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bro...y-charging-electric-vehicle/story?id=97389275
 
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