OT: Electric vehicles

[RUevolution36]

Gross automotive margin was 28.4% in q2. That number is unheard of for a car company. Wouldn't be surprised if we see >30% this quarter.

You're correct about the giga presses and Tesla's manufacturing advantage. Everyone knows about Tesla vehicles, not everyone is aware how Tesla builds a vehicle. What other automaker is eliminating the body shop from production lines? A model 3 is built in 10 hours; a VW ID.3 more than 30 hours. It's this reason VW CEO Herbert Diess called a crisis meeting last week. With Giga Berlin set to start production, Diess is pleading for rapid changes to keep VW competitive. Giga Berlin and Austin will be the 3rd generation Tesla factory with even greater efficiencies. They've won the decade. It's really not close.

Yeah, yeah.... fanboy, fanboy.... #'s don't lie. Btw.. the VW CEO seems to agree with my assessment of the current situation.

Tesla's gigafactory electrifies California-Germany culture clash

With final approval for its German factory potentially just weeks away, Tesla's Elon Musk will make an appearance in the tiny town of Gruenheide this Saturday to host a county fair.

www.reuters.com

Tesla is trying to stick it to the very very powerful labor unions in Germany, specifically the auto industry. And are grousing about the country's rules in general. Elon doesn't like rules...

 

[mildone]

Elon doesn't like rules...

I like rules for other people, like Musk for example, a lot. But not so much for me.

 

[RUevolution36]

Only question is how much it will be reduced on appeal. Runaway jury. In San Francisco. It figures.

Analysis: Tesla would face tough road in any bid to slash $137 mln racial bias verdict in U.S.

Tesla Inc will likely seek to slash a $137 million jury award for a Black worker who accused the automaker of racial discrimination, but could have difficulty reducing the verdict amid claims that the company tolerated widespread harassment, legal experts said.

www.reuters.com

Opinion piece as to why it's likely to hold up. Bonus - includes a blurb from a Rutgers Law professor.

 

[mdk01]

Analysis: Tesla would face tough road in any bid to slash $137 mln racial bias verdict in U.S.

Tesla Inc will likely seek to slash a $137 million jury award for a Black worker who accused the automaker of racial discrimination, but could have difficulty reducing the verdict amid claims that the company tolerated widespread harassment, legal experts said.

www.reuters.com

Opinion piece as to why it's likely to hold up. Bonus - includes a blurb from a Rutgers Law professor.

I'd say "might" is more accurate than "likely" when the award is "pretty unheard of". The USSC said it should not exceed 10X and over 4X may well be excessive. Tesla could settle for $69 million (10x) and still save $68 million. So does Diaz take the $77 million (actual + punitive) sure thing or run the risk it could get cut $35 million? Lawyers fees would not be an consideration for Tesla with these numbers.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Tesla still sells the X, but I think Y has been a lot more popular.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Tesla still sells the X, but I think Y has been a lot more popular.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Model Y as the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023.

 

[RUevolution36]

I wouldn't be surprised to the the Model Y as the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023.

lol.

 

[mildone]

I wouldn't be surprised to the the Model Y as the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023.

Maybe. Maybe one day it'll join the illustrious ranks of other best selling vehicles of all time:

Top 10 Best-Selling Cars Of All Time - All Top Everything All Top Everything

Wondering which car brands and cars sold best throughout history? Click to check out the current Top 10 of best-selling cars ever!

www.alltopeverything.com

🙂

 

[mdk01]

I wouldn't be surprised to the the Model Y as the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023.

Want to have a little wager on that, and do some good at the same time? I'll make a $100. donation to the "Center For Food Action" in Bergen County, separate and apart from my normal contributions, if that's true. Name the 501(c)(3) that gets your donation if it's not.

Deal?

 

[mildone]

Want to have a little wager on that, and do some good at the same time? I'll make a $100. donation to the "Center For Food Action" in Bergen County, separate and apart from my normal contributions, if that's true. Name the 501(c)(3) that gets your donation if it's not.

Deal?

Y’all have to define and then agree to the source of the metrics used to determine the winner first.

 

[mdk01]

Y’all have to define and then agree to the source of the metrics used to determine the winner first.

Got a suggestion?

 

[mildone]

Got a suggestion?

Nope. While several organizations seem to track and/or report on the numbers, it's not clear to me exactly how where they get their data and how accurate it is. And I've never cared nearly enough (or at all, really) to dig into it very deeply.

I would imagine that all the companies in question publish the numbers in their fiscal reports. And that those reports are audited. So perhaps that's where the numbers are coming from, annual shareholder reports perhaps - because nobody has ever lied in those.

Presumably, the 2023 numbers won't be available until late first quarter or so, 2024. So y'all have time to work out the details.

 

[jtung230]

Tesla still sells the X, but I think Y has been a lot more popular.

It’s more affordable. But X has better margin.

 

[RUevolution36]

funds could be held by a third party until then. i nominate @mildone .

 

[mdk01]

funds could be held by a third party until then. i nominate @mildone .

Gone in 12 hours on hooker and blow.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Want to have a little wager on that, and do some good at the same time? I'll make a $100. donation to the "Center For Food Action" in Bergen County, separate and apart from my normal contributions, if that's true. Name the 501(c)(3) that gets your donation if it's not.

Deal?

Done.
Be a Dear and Donate a Brassiere

​

 

[RUevolution36]

Gone in 12 hours on hooker and blow.

12 hours is generous. it's only $200.

 

[fsg2]

I miss the Geneva Motor Show.

Nowhere else do you see such a collection of random, flashy cars with little expectation of seeing them ever again.

It's like I was psychic. Email first thing this morning - Geneva canceled again in 2022. Was the first major event to get taken down by Covid and not sure it'll recover.

Lame.

 

[mdk01]

12 hours is generous. it's only $200.

That's why I used "hooker" and not "hookers"

 

[RUevolution36]

It's like I was psychic. Email first thing this morning - Geneva canceled again in 2022. Was the first major event to get taken down by Covid and not sure it'll recover.

Lame.

i think a lot of companies are already questioning the cost of these trade shows vs the benefits - so the covid cancellations may just speed that up. even Baselworld, the trade show for watches and jewelry, is seeing a decline in participation from some major brands.

 

[fsg2]

i think a lot of companies are already questioning the cost of these trade shows vs the benefits - so the covid cancellations may just speed that up. even Baselworld, the trade show for watches and jewelry, is seeing a decline in participation from some major brands.

True, was happening before Covid with auto shows. With social media, companies get more bang for their buck hosting their own debuts. Bike shows, too.

Was glad to see the old Detroit show go away (Detroit in mid Jan, anyone?) and not going to cry about Frankfurt, but love Geneva. Amazing showcase, straightforward venue and a reason to side-trip to the Alps in late Feb/early March.

Not looking great, tho.

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

My own car was debuted at Geneva.

 

[fsg2]

My own car was debuted at Geneva.

Koenigsegg Jesko?

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

Koenigsegg Jesko?

What, are you a cop? :)

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Only one month of data, but still amazing. And Giga Berlin not on-line yet.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Norway is leading the way on EV sales. No new ICE cars will be sold after 2025.

Norway to hit 100 per cent electric vehicle sales early next year

Analysis shows the last new petrol or diesel car sold in Norway will come as early as April, 2022 – three years ahead of the government's target.

www.drive.com.au

 

[jtung230]

That chart spells trouble for TSLA. They need 50% of the auto market to justify the valuation. That’s all auto sales (EV and ICE). Only getting 63% of the EV market is not good.

 

[mdk01]

Norway is leading the way on EV sales. No new ICE cars will be sold after 2025.

Norway to hit 100 per cent electric vehicle sales early next year

Analysis shows the last new petrol or diesel car sold in Norway will come as early as April, 2022 – three years ahead of the government's target.

www.drive.com.au

Sure hope the wind doesn't slow down on them or the "Freddy" produced by Flintstone Enterprises will lead in sales.

 

[mildone]

Gone in 12 hours on hooker and blow.

It's an investment.

 

[mildone]

That's why I used "hooker" and not "hookers"

😱 I've never in my life spent less than $3000 on a hooker.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

That chart spells trouble for TSLA. They need 50% of the auto market to justify the valuation. That’s all auto sales (EV and ICE). Only getting 63% of the EV market is not good.

Your Pavlovian response is all-around incorrect. "needs" 50% market share. Has 63% share. What kind of statistical voodoo are you referrring to? House of troll?

 

[RUevolution36]

Your Pavlovian response is all-around incorrect. "needs" 50% market share. Has 63% share. What kind of statistical voodoo are you referrring to? House of troll?

Either your math or your reading comprehension is lacking. Repeat...Tesla needs 50% of the entire auto market to justify its market valuation. You're talking about 63% of EV. Large fish in small pond. But in terms of all auto sales, small fish in an ocean.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

That chart spells trouble for TSLA. They need 50% of the auto market to justify the valuation. That’s all auto sales (EV and ICE). Only getting 63% of the EV market is not good.

Sure. Big trouble. Lots of other EV manufacturers have 2 giant factories about to come on line with the most efficient auto manufacturing on the planet. Oh, and demand through the roof.

Btw.. "EV market" is a nonsense term. There's just a vehicle market. # of vehicles produced is the only thing that matters, and Tesla is growing production at >50% every year with industry leading margins. Plausible to see 100% growth in 2022.

Where did you get your 50% market share to justify valuation? Pulled out of your ass? Or maybe from guys like Jim Chanos, Gordon Johnson, Michael Burry? Haven't you lost enough money taking investment advice from these clowns? I advised you earlier this year to start your long position when TSLA was in the $500s. While their fundamentals are getting stronger and stronger, you're focused on regulatory credits, "EV market share" and Bitcoin, oblivious to the big picture. I tried.

 

[jtung230]

Sure. Big trouble. Lots of other EV manufacturers have 2 giant factories about to come on line with the most efficient auto manufacturing on the planet. Oh, and demand through the roof.

Btw.. "EV market" is a nonsense term. There's just a vehicle market. # of vehicles produced is the only thing that matters, and Tesla is growing production at >50% every year with industry leading margins. Plausible to see 100% growth in 2022.

Where did you get your 50% market share to justify valuation? Pulled out of your ass? Or maybe from guys like Jim Chanos, Gordon Johnson, Michael Burry? Haven't you lost enough money taking investment advice from these clowns? I advised you earlier this year to start your long position when TSLA was in the $500s. While their fundamentals are getting stronger and stronger, you're focused on regulatory credits, "EV market share" and Bitcoin, oblivious to the big picture. I tried.

I agree with you about the “EV market” term but all the fan boys love to use it. I forget who said they need 50% market share to justify their value but it was based market cap. I’ll give credit that you did tell me to short it earlier in the year.

 

[jtung230]

NJ EV credit ran out of money again. Hope my purchase qualified since I ordered it in July.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

NJ EV credit ran out of money again. Hope my purchase qualified since I ordered it in July.

New federal credit should kick in if Congress ever gets their shit together. Hope you get that.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Either your math or your reading comprehension is lacking. Repeat...Tesla needs 50% of the entire auto market to justify its market valuation. You're talking about 63% of EV. Large fish in small pond. But in terms of all auto sales, small fish in an ocean.

Equally wrong assessment. Tesla doesn't need 50% of the entire auto market. The price of the Tesla stock is what it is. If Tesla is wildly overvalued, then the stock will come back to Earth at some point. However, the underlying fundamentals of the company are solid + fast growth, if not exponential. Also: Tesla is more than a car company. Much more.

 

[jtung230]

New federal credit should kick in if Congress ever gets their shit together. Hope you get that.

It still qualifies for fed tax credit of $7,500. But the additional 5k was really what pushed me over. Now I have do decide between ID 4 or CX 5.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

It still qualifies for fed tax credit of $7,500. But the additional 5k was really what pushed me over. Now I have do decide between ID 4 or CX 5.

Or wait for the new fed cred to kick in and go Model Y shopping? Teslas will be eligible for a $9K point of sale rebate under latest proposal