OT: Electric vehicles

[fsg2]

For me, the leap from 90 to 99 in the US-spec Buzz makes the difference.

Just did about 1,500 miles of road trip, much of it on wide open state highway through the middle of nowhere, and got into the 90s throughout but don't think I ever hit 100. I probably would have in a sports car or crossover but not a truck ...or a midsize van.

 

[RU-05]

For me, the leap from 90 to 99 in the US-spec Buzz makes the difference.

Just did about 1,500 miles of road trip, much of it on wide open state highway through the middle of nowhere, and got into the 90s throughout but don't think I ever hit 100. I probably would have in a sports car or crossover but not a truck ...or a midsize van.

Low 90's is as fast as I'll go. And that's pretty rare. Typically 80-85 on the parkway/turnpike.

 

[mildone]

For me, the leap from 90 to 99 in the US-spec Buzz makes the difference.

Just did about 1,500 miles of road trip, much of it on wide open state highway through the middle of nowhere, and got into the 90s throughout but don't think I ever hit 100. I probably would have in a sports car or crossover but not a truck ...or a midsize van.

I’ve argued, in various threads over the years, that with the right driver in the right car and conditions, even 150 mph can be perfectly safe. I stand by that.

But, despite having driven Cayennes around 150 to 155 on a racetrack (in the rain), I doubt I’ll ever drive over 95 or so in mine. Most of the time I’ll probably stick to 75-85.

Because, IMO, a car that heavy should not be driven so fast on the street. Not because it’s incapable but because because, due mostly to the increased weight, it cannot be reliably stable if required to execute certain avoidance maneuvers that can occur with some regularity on our highways, at higher speeds.

Speed is okay. Weight is okay. Combined they become much less okay. Drives me crazy when I see large pickup trucks or SUVs traveling in excess of 100 mph on the highway. That’s insane. Doesn’t bother me at all when it’s a well maintained sports car (with an alert driver in appropriate conditions).

 

[zappaa]

Low 90's is as fast as I'll go. And that's pretty rare. Typically 80-85 on the parkway/turnpike.

Just drove down to Columbia SC, 12 hours each way with only bathroom breaks.
Left on Wednesday, returned Friday.
I’m suffering from heel spur presently (Plantar fascia)
Saving my heel from ridiculous pain I set my cruise control and through trial and error found 77 to be the speed where I could stay in the fast lane with the fewest amounts of disengaging or changing lanes for extended periods of time.
For you guys going 100, I’m not pulling over for you if I have to slow down, you’ll have to wait till I can change lanes without braking 😊

 

[mildone]

If the van's a rockin', don't come a knockin'.

Volkswagen ID. Buzz camper van by Love Campers review

:

www.carmagazine.co.uk

 

[mildone]

A not particularly flattering article partly about the Cybertruck, but really more about Musk.

CEO Elon Musk: Tesla Cybertruck Coming This Summer, Volume Production in 2024

Musk tamps down expectations while making some boastful claims during earnings call.

www.motortrend.com

 

[lne001]

A not particularly flattering article partly about the Cybertruck, but really more about Musk.

A six month old article that is already out of date. Please try to stay more current. 😉

 

[mildone]

A six month old article that is already out of date. Please try to stay more current. 😉

I should've noticed the date. But Twitter, owned by Musk of course, keeps reposting old articles in my feed.

So it's not entirely my fault. 🙂

 

[jtung230]

I should've noticed the date. But Twitter, owned by Musk of course, keeps reposting old articles in my feed.

So it's not entirely my fault. 🙂

Your first clue the article was dated is that it said CT delivery in the summer 2023.

 

[mildone]

Your first clue the article was dated is that it said CT delivery in the summer 2023.

True, that really should've been obvious.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how it's received and how many they sell. My guess is that it'll be pretty niche. But who knows.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Tesla and Ford partnership on charging standard angers CCS coalition, but they are wrong

CharIn, the association behind the CCS EV charging standard, has issued a response to the Tesla and Ford partnership on...

electrek.co

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

View embedded media

Great thread. Of course, you and I have brought up these same talking points for a few years now. I guess Farley is just another know-nothing Elon fanboy too....

 

[RUBlackout7]

Everyone will eventually hitch their wagon to Tesla. You’ll be stupid not to.

I can’t believe how cheap you can get a Tesla 3 for now. They are gonna sell a ton this year.

 

[jtung230]

Everyone will eventually hitch their wagon to Tesla. You’ll be stupid not to.

I can’t believe how cheap you can get a Tesla 3 for now. They are gonna sell a ton this year.

Who needs a model 2 when model can sell at those prices. All those people that bought it before the price cut will have sticker shock on resale.

 

[Morrischiano]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/ev-conservative-buyer-uptick/

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Rivian, which will be the first to market if it ever stops delaying, drops mileage in half while towing the max of 11K pounds. So between 125 and 200 miles, depending on spec. Believe that when you see it, but that's what it says.

On a side note, several RV and trailer chassis companies around the world, including the world's largest, are working on self-powered electric trailers that could cut the effective tow load down to nothing to boost tow vehicle range. Interesting idea that's started real world testing.

I will repeat what I said in the first EV thread.
Until there is a game changing breakthrough in battery tech, EVs are for short distance passenger driving.
All this nonsense about pulling trailers and hauling large loads long distances are just that. Nonsense. Adding $14k of batteries and motors to your camper is a non starter.
Diminishing returns with battery weight vs. work done. #physics
Forget about sourcing the materials for these huge batteries and let's not forget the electricity to charge these things doesn't happen by magic. Grid is at its limits now.

 

[fsg2]

I will repeat what I said in the first EV thread.
Until there is a game changing breakthrough in battery tech, EVs are for short distance passenger driving.
All this nonsense about pulling trailers and hauling large loads long distances are just that. Nonsense. Adding $14k of batteries and motors to your camper is a non starter.
Diminishing returns with battery weight vs. work done. #physics
Forget about sourcing the materials for these huge batteries and let's not forget the electricity to charge these things doesn't happen by magic. Grid is at its limits now.

Who was talking about EVs pulling loads long distances?

As for the campers, I believe you'll be proven incorrect. Folks already spend stupid money on campers, so don't see $14K or more as prohibitively expensive. In fact, there are campers out there with Tesla-sized non-motive batteries designed simply to run on pure electricity without propane or diesel. And the companies making them keep increasing battery size and offering newer, more powerful models.

A group that's, by definition, affluent and motivated to protect the local environment will embrace pure-electric setups.

 

[RU4Real]

Who was talking about EVs pulling loads long distances?

As for the campers, I believe you'll be proven incorrect. Folks already spend stupid money on campers, so don't see $14K or more as prohibitively expensive. In fact, there are campers out there with Tesla-sized non-motive batteries designed simply to run on pure electricity without propane or diesel. And the companies making them keep increasing battery size and offering newer, more powerful models.

A group that's, by definition, affluent and motivated to protect the local environment will embrace pure-electric setups.

The sailing community is going HUGE into electric - particularly the large (45' - 65') cruiser market.

In a number of new models the equipment complement now includes:

• 6kw to 7kw of solar panels
• 1.2kw to 2.8kw of wind generator
• Li batteries sufficient for a day's use, minimum
• Propane galley equipment (oven, range) replaced with electric / induction
• Across the range inclusion of reverse cycle A/C systems and water makers
• Manual saltwater toilets replaced with electric freshwater toilets
• Vastly upgraded comm & nav systems
• Upgraded refrigeration / freezer capacity
• Washer/dryer
• Electric winches
• Electric primary propulsion motor

The result is that, in the tropics at least, these boats are 100% self-sustainable and completely independent of carbon-based fuels. And air conditioned. The only thing that runs out is the food. Get lucky with the rod & reel and you can just keep on goin'...

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

The sailing community is going HUGE into electric - particularly the large (45' - 65') cruiser market.

In a number of new models the equipment complement now includes:

• 6kw to 7kw of solar panels
• 1.2kw to 2.8kw of wind generator
• Li batteries sufficient for a day's use, minimum
• Propane galley equipment (oven, range) replaced with electric / induction
• Across the range inclusion of reverse cycle A/C systems and water makers
• Manual saltwater toilets replaced with electric freshwater toilets
• Vastly upgraded comm & nav systems
• Upgraded refrigeration / freezer capacity
• Washer/dryer
• Electric winches
• Electric primary propulsion motor

The result is that, in the tropics at least, these boats are 100% self-sustainable and completely independent of carbon-based fuels. And air conditioned. The only thing that runs out is the food. Get lucky with the rod & reel and you can just keep on goin'...

Those are the perfect application for the technology. Moving heavy loads @ hull speed on water is the most efficient way of moving anything. Even though expensive, that is one I would buy.

 

[RU4Real]

Those are the perfect application for the technology. Moving heavy loads @ hull speed on water is the most efficient way of moving anything. Even though expensive, that is one I would buy.

There's so much great news in all this for anyone who cruises.

If you're of the means, it's worth knowing that all this new gadgetry hasn't raised the price of new boats by all that much. I suspect, without knowing for sure, that it's largely because the diesel engines that aren't getting put in are f*ck-all expensive. Like 25k and up.

But even if that's not your destiny, every single one of those things that I listed can be retrofitted into any similar sized cruising boat of older vintage. If you're doing blue water then the solar panels and wind gen are getting fitted out, anyway (if the previous owner hasn't already done it, as most have). The rest is done either as budget allows or as routine replacement for older components.

@mildone will hate this, but my vision for the industry at 5 to 10 years in the future is that I can turn my boat toward the horizon and, utilizing onboard electronics fully integrated with the ship's management computer, satellite internet and some AI, basically say "Alexa, take me to Nassau." The boat does the rest.

 

[fsg2]

The sailing community is going HUGE into electric - particularly the large (45' - 65') cruiser market.

In a number of new models the equipment complement now includes:

• 6kw to 7kw of solar panels
• 1.2kw to 2.8kw of wind generator
• Li batteries sufficient for a day's use, minimum
• Propane galley equipment (oven, range) replaced with electric / induction
• Across the range inclusion of reverse cycle A/C systems and water makers
• Manual saltwater toilets replaced with electric freshwater toilets
• Vastly upgraded comm & nav systems
• Upgraded refrigeration / freezer capacity
• Washer/dryer
• Electric winches
• Electric primary propulsion motor

The result is that, in the tropics at least, these boats are 100% self-sustainable and completely independent of carbon-based fuels. And air conditioned. The only thing that runs out is the food. Get lucky with the rod & reel and you can just keep on goin'...

Exactly what's been happening in the RV industry.

Not sure if sailing has had a similar perfect storm, but for RVing and car camping, it's been a mix of

-all-time levels of general interest and sales

-fast-evolving tech in terms of batteries and electrical hardware

-growing interest in remote, off-grid forms of travel

That's been over the past 5 to 10 years. I reckon shifting demographics toward a younger, more eco-minded and more adventurous market has also been a factor.

 

[fsg2]

Find the reverse-AC water makers particularly interesting. They've shrunk them down enough for RVs and even just car trunks. Don't think price point is quite there yet, tho.

 

[RU4Real]

Exactly what's been happening in the RV industry.

Not sure if sailing has had a similar perfect storm, but for RVing and car camping, it's been a mix of

-all-time levels of general interest and sales

-fast-evolving tech in terms of batteries and electrical hardware

-growing interest in remote, off-grid forms of travel

That's been over the past 5 to 10 years. I reckon shifting demographics toward a younger, more eco-minded and more adventurous market has also been a factor.

All boats got expensive during Covid. The price of new boats has stayed up. Used boats are just now starting to come down. It's almost a direct reflection of what's happened in the auto industry.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

GM's Mary Barra Predicts the Upcoming Chevy Equinox EV Will Lose a Lot of Money

GM's CEO Mary Barra said that high battery costs would make $30,000-$40,000 EVs, such as the upcoming Chevy Equinox EV, unprofitable for the foreseeable future

www.autoevolution.com

 

[mildone]

There's so much great news in all this for anyone who cruises.

If you're of the means, it's worth knowing that all this new gadgetry hasn't raised the price of new boats by all that much. I suspect, without knowing for sure, that it's largely because the diesel engines that aren't getting put in are f*ck-all expensive. Like 25k and up.

But even if that's not your destiny, every single one of those things that I listed can be retrofitted into any similar sized cruising boat of older vintage. If you're doing blue water then the solar panels and wind gen are getting fitted out, anyway (if the previous owner hasn't already done it, as most have). The rest is done either as budget allows or as routine replacement for older components.

@mildone will hate this, but my vision for the industry at 5 to 10 years in the future is that I can turn my boat toward the horizon and, utilizing onboard electronics fully integrated with the ship's management computer, satellite internet and some AI, basically say "Alexa, take me to Nassau." The boat does the rest.

I don't hate that at all. It's all good. If you're feeling like standing a watch at the helm, you can. But when you want to sleep and/or just chill out, you can do that too. Seems perfect to me.

Long as the AI doesn't start killing whales and sharks or worse, damage any windmills.

 

[RU4Real]

I don't hate that at all. It's all good. If you're feeling like standing a watch at the helm, you can. But when you want to sleep and/or just chill out, you can do that too. Seems perfect to me.

Long as the AI doesn't start killing whales and sharks or worse, damage any windmills.

Have you seen the new 3D/360 sonar systems? Holy crap, you knew it had to come at some point, but it's here and it's not horrifyingly expensive. Does just what it says - it gives you a 3D picture under the water, all the way around the boat. it can look forward to something like 500 meters which, if you're standing a proper watch, is sufficient time to confirm a target ahead and alter course.

The marine tech is coming at a dizzying pace.

 

[RU4Real]

I don't hate that at all. It's all good. If you're feeling like standing a watch at the helm, you can. But when you want to sleep and/or just chill out, you can do that too. Seems perfect to me.

Long as the AI doesn't start killing whales and sharks or worse, damage any windmills.

Hey, apropos of something entirely different, what's your feeling on big, more recent Catalinas? I'm talking 2000 and later, either the 360 mkII or 420. Not so much for across the pond (although many of them have transited the Pacific) but primarily to run down the coast to the islands.

My other current candidate is the Island Packet 370, same general vintage. More money, but a different kind of boat entirely. The Catalina would be fast on passage but with a quick re-route trigger as per conditions. The IP70 isn't as fast, but can freight train on a reach and handle basically any sea state.

 

[mildone]

Have you seen the new 3D/360 sonar systems? Holy crap, you knew it had to come at some point, but it's here and it's not horrifyingly expensive. Does just what it says - it gives you a 3D picture under the water, all the way around the boat. it can look forward to something like 500 meters which, if you're standing a proper watch, is sufficient time to confirm a target ahead and alter course.

The marine tech is coming at a dizzying pace.

Haven't seen it but something like that would've alleviated some stress at times when reaching out the coast of Long Island, running out maybe a mile, then back as close to shore as we dared, in the fog, repeatedly. It's nerve-wracking hearing breakers but not knowing exactly how much farther we could go before tacking again.

 

[mildone]

Hey, apropos of something entirely different, what's your feeling on big, more recent Catalinas? I'm talking 2000 and later, either the 360 mkII or 420. Not so much for across the pond (although many of them have transited the Pacific) but primarily to run down the coast to the islands.

My other current candidate is the Island Packet 370, same general vintage. More money, but a different kind of boat entirely. The Catalina would be fast on passage but with a quick re-route trigger as per conditions. The IP70 isn't as fast, but can freight train on a reach and handle basically any sea state.

Do you have links to specific boats? If so, put 'em into an email.

For me, when I was looking into something to live on in the Keys, I was much more focused on comfort and the ability to sail anywhere than on speed. I would prioritize safety, then comfort, than versatility, than speed last.

OTOH, speed could be important if dodging a bad storm while at sea. Which goes to safety.

 

[mildone]

Hey, apropos of something entirely different, what's your feeling on big, more recent Catalinas? I'm talking 2000 and later, either the 360 mkII or 420. Not so much for across the pond (although many of them have transited the Pacific) but primarily to run down the coast to the islands.

My other current candidate is the Island Packet 370, same general vintage. More money, but a different kind of boat entirely. The Catalina would be fast on passage but with a quick re-route trigger as per conditions. The IP70 isn't as fast, but can freight train on a reach and handle basically any sea state.

Forgot to mention that one critical requirement, for me, would be to get an auxiliary sailboat - and to always be sure the engine(s) were reliable. Partly because there's only one thing worse than sitting around becalmed for a couple days (and I've done that in races, basically drifting backwards for days, and it sucks). The worse thing is sitting around becalmed for days as a big ass storm approaches.

Plus running engines can charge important stuff up in situations where solar isn't sufficient due to weather conditions or whatever.

 

[RU4Real]

Forgot to mention that one critical requirement, for me, would be to get an auxiliary sailboat - and to always be sure the engine(s) were reliable. Partly because there's only one thing worse than sitting around becalmed for a couple days (and I've done that in races, basically drifting backwards for days, and it sucks). The worse thing is sitting around becalmed for days as a big ass storm approaches.

Plus running engines can charge important stuff up in situations where solar isn't sufficient due to weather conditions or whatever.

Pretty much everything I've looked at has diesel primary power. Although I wouldn't be averse to a hybrid, i.e. electric motor with a diesel genset.

 

[letitrip2]

GM's Mary Barra Predicts the Upcoming Chevy Equinox EV Will Lose a Lot of Money

GM's CEO Mary Barra said that high battery costs would make $30,000-$40,000 EVs, such as the upcoming Chevy Equinox EV, unprofitable for the foreseeable future

www.autoevolution.com

I notice the usual suspects on this board have not responded to this news. There is only one way to read this - "the competition is not coming anytime soon". Yikes the OEM's are screwed. And Farley's comments about software are even more revealing.

 

[RUBlackout7]

I notice the usual suspects on this board have not responded to this news. There is only one way to read this - "the competition is not coming anytime soon". Yikes the OEM's are screwed. And Farley's comments about software are even more revealing.

There will definitely be casualties in the shift to EVs. Those dragging their feet will not survive.

 

[mdk01]

I notice the usual suspects on this board have not responded to this news. There is only one way to read this - "the competition is not coming anytime soon". Yikes the OEM's are screwed. And Farley's comments about software are even more revealing.

Anyone else seen the WSJ front page article today about issues related to nickel and other components needed for mass production of EVs?

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Who was talking about EVs pulling loads long distances?

As for the campers, I believe you'll be proven incorrect. Folks already spend stupid money on campers, so don't see $14K or more as prohibitively expensive. In fact, there are campers out there with Tesla-sized non-motive batteries designed simply to run on pure electricity without propane or diesel. And the companies making them keep increasing battery size and offering newer, more powerful models.

A group that's, by definition, affluent and motivated to protect the local environment will embrace pure-electric setups.

I quoted you talking about exactly that.
Unless you camp around the corner from your house, I would say it involves moving that heavy load some distance. Powering the camper to help move itself is still subject to the same limitations of the tech.
As far the off grid living once you reach your destination, I'm with you 100%. Both fossil fuels and renewables have their place.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I notice the usual suspects on this board have not responded to this news. There is only one way to read this - "the competition is not coming anytime soon". Yikes the OEM's are screwed. And Farley's comments about software are even more revealing.

Farley took a few shots at GM (Barra) during the interview for her boasting. It was a great interview. Farley isn't a politician CEO.

 

[Knight Shift]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/ev-conservative-buyer-uptick/

paywalled crap newspaper. Please don't post paywalled links to crap newspapers. Not useful to the thread.

 

[mildone]

I notice the usual suspects on this board have not responded to this news.

Not sure who the usual suspects are, and I can't speak for anybody else who didn't respond, but the reason I didn't respond is that it's not at all interesting to me.

Why should I care? CEOs make statements all the time and companies thrive or die every day. Paying attention to that stuff is, to me at least, like watching paint dry.

But each to their own. If that sort of thing is what excites you, enjoy.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/ford-lincoln-fire-recall/index.html