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OT: Electric vehicles

I can't believe a prototype from 1 and a half years ago wasn't ready for production. More brilliant clickbait from the yahoos at Yahoo.
they can silence them all by producing the actual truck. it is a clickbait just like Tesla talking about there are 1.5 million preorders.
 
they can silence them all by producing the actual truck. it is a clickbait just like Tesla talking about there are 1.5 million preorders.
Over and over, you're wrong on everything Tesla. Do you go through all aspects of life with a complete lack of self awareness, or just when it comes to Tesla/EVs? I suppose that would be impossible for you to answer. Regardless, I think I'll go with Tesla's estimates.

I know you don't want that to be true, which is bizarre since you bought 2 EVs, and I figured you'd be enthusiastic about accelerating sustainable transportation. I'm sure you'll be crowing about the initial CT production rate, along with the other TSLAQ losers, but CT will eventually become the best selling EV pickup. Sorry in advance.

Btw... Another record breaking quarter for Tesla. I know, I know.... likely accounting fraud.
 
Over and over, you're wrong on everything Tesla. Do you go through all aspects of life with a complete lack of self awareness, or just when it comes to Tesla/EVs? I suppose that would be impossible for you to answer. Regardless, I think I'll go with Tesla's estimates.

I know you don't want that to be true, which is bizarre since you bought 2 EVs, and I figured you'd be enthusiastic about accelerating sustainable transportation. I'm sure you'll be crowing about the initial CT production rate, along with the other TSLAQ losers, but CT will eventually become the best selling EV pickup. Sorry in advance.

Btw... Another record breaking quarter for Tesla. I know, I know.... likely accounting fraud.
The truth is when most of the orders taken it was priced at 40k with 500 miles of range and a bunch of BS over promised specs. Congrats on the record breaking quarter. Think they’ll beat that 50% annual increase this year? You would think they can beat the only guidance they give right.
 
Over and over, you're wrong on everything Tesla. Do you go through all aspects of life with a complete lack of self awareness, or just when it comes to Tesla/EVs? I suppose that would be impossible for you to answer. Regardless, I think I'll go with Tesla's estimates.

I know you don't want that to be true, which is bizarre since you bought 2 EVs, and I figured you'd be enthusiastic about accelerating sustainable transportation. I'm sure you'll be crowing about the initial CT production rate, along with the other TSLAQ losers, but CT will eventually become the best selling EV pickup. Sorry in advance.

Btw... Another record breaking quarter for Tesla. I know, I know.... likely accounting fraud.
How is he wrong about the Cybertruck?

I agree with many things you post here, but you are coming off defensive and as a Tesla cheerleader here. Nobody knows what the sales will be at the increased price point whenever it is released.

And there indeed was an excitement when Tesla announced the "first" pickup truck, but it is certainly reasonable to conclude that the excitement has waned and that all of the reservations will not convert to orders. They never do with any vehicle, do they? People's circumstances change, other options become available, the excitement of being "first" is gone, the economy has changed, and prices are much higher. There is no need to be defensive about the reality of the situation.

One key factor that will impact Tesla's Cybertruck sales will be the supply and demand of electric pickup trucks generally from Ford, Rivian, GM/Chevrolet and Dodge/Ram. There will be enough market for each player, but will the other players be able to meet the demand? We shall see.

I have related here that I was on board with the CT when it was announced. But the multiple delays, a hard no way from everyone else in my household being seen in a weird looking vehicle, and the earlier release of the Lightning caused me to pivot to the Lightning. I am ecstatic with my choice.

Part of the problem with this thread is we have people who hate Elon Musk and Tesla and just want to throw stones at them both. There is another bunch who just had EVs and are contrarians, or they have expectation/hopes of a 600 mile range EV. A more distinct problem are the handful of Tesla cheerleaders who can be overly defensive on factual posts about Tesla, but on the same hand, some of the sources/articles are weak sauce attacks on Tesla.

EV drivers mostly want the same thing. And for the sake of the market, it is not healthy to have a monopoly in any product market. Tesla fans should want other automakers to make EVs and a sizeable market share and to succeed. Ultimately, competition will drive further innovation and consumer choice.

Maybe you will trust KBB, or are they anti-Tesla? From a recent article (1/27/2023):

"Coming in 2021; No, 2022; No, 2023; No…

This latest production target is at least the fourth date Musk has promised.

When Musk announced the Cybertruck back in 2019, he promised it would be in production within two years. He later delayed that to 2022. Then delayed it again into 2023.

This latest announcement means the first trucks could leave factory doors this summer."

"When Tesla first announced the Cybertruck, no other automaker had publicly discussed building an electric pickup. But you may have noticed that, above, we mentioned a Ford electric truck already in customers’ parking spots.


Ford’s F-150 Lightning is hardly alone. GMC already sells its Hummer EV. Startup Rivian has delivered hundreds of R1T pickups to customers. Startup Lordstown Motors has begun customer deliveries of its Endurance truck.


General Motors has announced both a Chevrolet Silverado EV and a GMC Sierra EV, which could reach production before the Cybertruck, pushing Tesla’s debut to seventh at best. Ram’s 1500 Revolution – which seats six and can follow its owner like a puppy – is likely further behind."


From an earlier article (8/19/2021 after the first delay:
"It’s not clear whether most of the 1 million who have reserved a Cybertruck could be tempted away to more conventional-looking models that deliver earlier."


From an article (1/14/2022) after the second delay:
"It’s always difficult for journalists to get reliable information out of Tesla." "The futuristic, almost brutalist-styled Cybertruck was among the first electric pickups announced. But it now trails several competitors in getting to market."
 
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Don't know if you saw, but Lordstown has gone Tango Uniform.
Thought they had already- that was a quote from KBB from January, 2023. They ceased production of truck in February 2023, and declared bankruptcy in May. Seems they are in a spat with a foreign company that invested in them.

What happens to the poor folks who purchased those trucks and need service and/or have warranty issues?
 
hehehe, I spent $14.11 last month to charge my Ford Escape PHEV at home between midnight and 8am at a reduced kWh rate plan. And I spent $0 on gas.
Of course I don't drive that much, but it's a savings.
I am momentarily down to one car and didn’t drive it much in June. Still have a quarter tank left from filling it sometime in late May.
 
Over and over, you're wrong on everything Tesla. Do you go through all aspects of life with a complete lack of self awareness, or just when it comes to Tesla/EVs? I suppose that would be impossible for you to answer. Regardless, I think I'll go with Tesla's estimates.

I know you don't want that to be true, which is bizarre since you bought 2 EVs, and I figured you'd be enthusiastic about accelerating sustainable transportation. I'm sure you'll be crowing about the initial CT production rate, along with the other TSLAQ losers, but CT will eventually become the best selling EV pickup. Sorry in advance.

Btw... Another record breaking quarter for Tesla. I know, I know.... likely accounting fraud.
Didn’t we once have a bet about CT production LOL? The CT design screams gimmick. Low utility vs its peers. IDK what people would buy it for other than shock factor on the road. Elon could have hit a grand slam if he designed it more like a Ford Bronco or new Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon.
 
Didn’t we once have a bet about CT production LOL? The CT design screams gimmick. Low utility vs its peers. IDK what people would buy it for other than shock factor on the road. Elon could have hit a grand slam if he designed it more like a Ford Bronco or new Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon.
Unless it has some sort of extreme performance and handling advantage, like a model S plaid, the CT sure seems mostly like a “look at me” car or shock value thing. It’ll stand out on the road for sure.

But compared to most other look at me cars, I think it would mostly stand out in a really bad way. It has zero cool factor, IMO.
 
Yep, and off-the-cuff bullshit is off-the-cuff bullshit.

EVs are cheap af ...lmao.

 

I don't really think $40K or $47K are inexpensive or cheap af items. I think the average price of cars today is completely nuts, so being less than that average is still completely nuts.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf), the median weekly earnings in the US in the first quarter of 2023 was $1,100 per week or $57,200 per year (optimistically).

Even in a two earner household where both earners make that average amount, a $47K car is still not "cheap af". When you factor in federal subsidies or rebates or whatever, somebody is still paying for that, in this case it's taxpayers.

People taking some kind of religious stance about cars like to overstate what I'm saying. So let me point out that I'm not trying to argue that people shouldn't buy EVs - I think that folks for whom they make sense should absolutely buy them. I'm just saying that they aren't cheap af. Very few cars are cheap af.
 
I don't really think $40K or $47K are inexpensive or cheap af items. I think the average price of cars today is completely nuts, so being less than that average is still completely nuts.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf), the median weekly earnings in the US in the first quarter of 2023 was $1,100 per week or $57,200 per year (optimistically).

Even in a two earner household where both earners make that average amount, a $47K car is still not "cheap af".
The model 3 is just about the cheapest car you can buy, period. idk what to tell you.
 
The model 3 is just about the cheapest car you can buy, period. idk what to tell you.
For some people, buying produce at the food store isn't cheap af. Cars are not really cheap as af - that's an attitude folks with way more money than the average American might say that isn't really true for most Americans.

Sure, in the context of a $500K per year income, or a net worth of $10M, the average cost of a car today is not a big expense. It could be viewed as cheap af.

This is silly discussion where useless generalities are being tossed around. How did we even get started talking about cars as being cheap anyway?
 
For some people, buying produce at the food store isn't cheap af. Cars are not really cheap as af - that's an attitude folks with way more money than the average American might say that isn't really true for most Americans.

Sure, in the context of a $500K per year income, or a net worth of $10M, the average cost of a car today is not a big expense. It could be viewed as cheap af.

This is silly discussion where useless generalities are being tossed around. How did we even get started talking about cars as being cheap anyway?
Holy crap, I was obviously talking about in the world of cars, EVs are becoming cheap.

Was not trying to say cars are cheaper than vegetables 😂😂

Take the L and move on.
 
For some people, buying produce at the food store isn't cheap af. Cars are not really cheap as af - that's an attitude folks with way more money than the average American might say that isn't really true for most Americans.

Sure, in the context of a $500K per year income, or a net worth of $10M, the average cost of a car today is not a big expense. It could be viewed as cheap af.

This is silly discussion where useless generalities are being tossed around. How did we even get started talking about cars as being cheap anyway?
You wouldn't think cars are cheap yet the roads are packed, jammed with them, nice ones, all day long, at least around where I live, even in working class neighborhoods. People are finding money to finance fairly nice lifestyles. I suspect an awful lot more people inherit money than we think, and I don't necessarily mean millions but enough hundreds of thousands that they can buy pretty nice cars and finance trips and live a lifestyle above the level of their income. For All the breathless talk of distress and bills what I see around me everywhere is a lot of prosperity.
 
Take the L and move on.
See, you were okay until that post. Making silly pointless statements, but that's fine and we all do it.

But then you did the self-declaration of victory thing which is the common internet version of screaming "I'm emotionally and intellectually insecure".

Want a mulligan? Need some help funding the therapy to help deal with your insecurities?

I'm always here to help. 🙂
 
You wouldn't think cars are cheap yet the roads are packed, jammed with them, nice ones, all day long, at least around where I live, even in working class neighborhoods. People are finding money to finance fairly nice lifestyles. I suspect an awful lot more people inherit money than we think, and I don't necessarily mean millions but enough hundreds of thousands that they can buy pretty nice cars and finance trips and live a lifestyle above the level of their income. For All the breathless talk of distress and bills what I see around me everywhere is a lot of prosperity.
foot to mouth living
 
You wouldn't think cars are cheap yet the roads are packed, jammed with them, nice ones, all day long, at least around where I live, even in working class neighborhoods. People are finding money to finance fairly nice lifestyles. I suspect an awful lot more people inherit money than we think, and I don't necessarily mean millions but enough hundreds of thousands that they can buy pretty nice cars and finance trips and live a lifestyle above the level of their income. For All the breathless talk of distress and bills what I see around me everywhere is a lot of prosperity.
This is kind of straying way off topic now, but I don't disagree that Americans are living through a remarkably prosperous time, and it's just getting more prosperous decade by decade.

But I also think a lot of that prosperity is built on debt and, for many families, when their parents die, there isn't going to be a ton left to inherit because people are living beyond their means through continual debt that erodes savings over time.

This link (https://www.annuity.org/retirement/estate-planning/average-inheritance) lists the average inheritance at $46,200 (between 2016 and 2019 based on a federal reserve survey). No idea how accurate that is, but I think it likely most people are lucky if they inherit $100K.

I would imagine most people nowadays don't inherit all that much money and mostly don't do so until they are fairly old themselves. In the meantime, I think most people have to buy at least a few cars or so on their own, which most do by financing or leasing them.

When I'm out driving in rural areas, which I do a lot, I see a lot of 10+ year old cars, many either base or near-base trim levels. In PA and NYS, it's probably closer to 20 year old cars than 10.

But I'm not an economist, these are just my perceptions.
 
This is kind of straying way off topic now, but I don't disagree that Americans are living through a remarkably prosperous time, and it's just getting more prosperous decade by decade.

But I also think a lot of that prosperity is built on debt and, for many families, when their parents die, there isn't going to be a ton left to inherit because people are living beyond their means through continual debt that erodes savings over time.

This link (https://www.annuity.org/retirement/estate-planning/average-inheritance) lists the average inheritance at $46,200 (between 2016 and 2019 based on a federal reserve survey). No idea how accurate that is, but I think it likely most people are lucky if they inherit $100K.

I would imagine most people nowadays don't inherit all that much money and mostly don't do so until they are fairly old themselves. In the meantime, I think most people have to buy at least a few cars or so on their own, which most do by financing or leasing them.

When I'm out driving in rural areas, which I do a lot, I see a lot of 10+ year old cars, many either base or near-base trim levels. In PA and NYS, it's probably closer to 20 year old cars than 10.

But I'm not an economist, these are just my perceptions.
I have no idea what the numbers behind the scenes are but what I see with my eyes doesn't match the rhetoric I hear in the political realm. For my whole life Americans have had a tendency to cry poverty, even very wealthy people, and I've also heard that it's all going to collapse under the weight of debt. Yet the spending goes and goes. We have a definite underclass in the country, maybe 10% to 15%, that lives a tough existence and it includes a lot of people who produce our food. But above that an awful lot of people seem to do very well.
 

3 cars don't make an entire market.
 
I have no idea what the numbers behind the scenes are but what I see with my eyes doesn't match the rhetoric I hear in the political realm. For my whole life Americans have had a tendency to cry poverty, even very wealthy people, and I've also heard that it's all going to collapse under the weight of debt. Yet the spending goes and goes. We have a definite underclass in the country, maybe 10% to 15%, that lives a tough existence and it includes a lot of people who produce our food. But above that an awful lot of people seem to do very well.
I'm not crying poverty. I'm saying $40K isn't cheap af for a car.

This is all very off-topic, though. We should talk about cars, not poverty, economy, etc. That's CE board stuff.
 
I have no idea what the numbers behind the scenes are but what I see with my eyes doesn't match the rhetoric I hear in the political realm. For my whole life Americans have had a tendency to cry poverty, even very wealthy people, and I've also heard that it's all going to collapse under the weight of debt. Yet the spending goes and goes. We have a definite underclass in the country, maybe 10% to 15%, that lives a tough existence and it includes a lot of people who produce our food. But above that an awful lot of people seem to do very well.
poor is very subjective as is living well

if someone doesn't have AC they think they are poor, latest smart phone (which is nuts to pay what people pay) and more

priorities are skewed from want and need
 
You wouldn't think cars are cheap yet the roads are packed, jammed with them, nice ones, all day long, at least around where I live, even in working class neighborhoods. People are finding money to finance fairly nice lifestyles. I suspect an awful lot more people inherit money than we think, and I don't necessarily mean millions but enough hundreds of thousands that they can buy pretty nice cars and finance trips and live a lifestyle above the level of their income. For All the breathless talk of distress and bills what I see around me everywhere is a lot of prosperity.
There are cars parked around some of the Public Housing Projects around here that are newer and in better shape than some of my neighbors cars. The other thing is that for the most part there are not any spaces to park. We're talking a few hundred used parking spaces for people that have subsidized housing.
 
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The truth is when most of the orders taken it was priced at 40k with 500 miles of range and a bunch of BS over promised specs. Congrats on the record breaking quarter. Think they’ll beat that 50% annual increase this year? You would think they can beat the only guidance they give right.
Ya see, right there. Either you're a complete idiot or have nefarious intentions. You're going to get called out on bullshit like this if you post it. You're trying to be slick by combining the base configuration, single motor CT price with the highest trim, tri motor specs (range).

So @Knight Shift , should I be labeled a "Tesla cheerleader" when I call out bullshit like the post above? I'm not being defensive. Tesla is not without its warts. I'm simply a fan of the truth. Plenty of misinformation in this thread and I will continue to call it like it is.
 
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How is he wrong about the Cybertruck?

I agree with many things you post here, but you are coming off defensive and as a Tesla cheerleader here. Nobody knows what the sales will be at the increased price point whenever it is released.

And there indeed was an excitement when Tesla announced the "first" pickup truck, but it is certainly reasonable to conclude that the excitement has waned and that all of the reservations will not convert to orders. They never do with any vehicle, do they? People's circumstances change, other options become available, the excitement of being "first" is gone, the economy has changed, and prices are much higher. There is no need to be defensive about the reality of the situation.

One key factor that will impact Tesla's Cybertruck sales will be the supply and demand of electric pickup trucks generally from Ford, Rivian, GM/Chevrolet and Dodge/Ram. There will be enough market for each player, but will the other players be able to meet the demand? We shall see.

I have related here that I was on board with the CT when it was announced. But the multiple delays, a hard no way from everyone else in my household being seen in a weird looking vehicle, and the earlier release of the Lightning caused me to pivot to the Lightning. I am ecstatic with my choice.

Part of the problem with this thread is we have people who hate Elon Musk and Tesla and just want to throw stones at them both. There is another bunch who just had EVs and are contrarians, or they have expectation/hopes of a 600 mile range EV. A more distinct problem are the handful of Tesla cheerleaders who can be overly defensive on factual posts about Tesla, but on the same hand, some of the sources/articles are weak sauce attacks on Tesla.

EV drivers mostly want the same thing. And for the sake of the market, it is not healthy to have a monopoly in any product market. Tesla fans should want other automakers to make EVs and a sizeable market share and to succeed. Ultimately, competition will drive further innovation and consumer choice.

Maybe you will trust KBB, or are they anti-Tesla? From a recent article (1/27/2023):

"Coming in 2021; No, 2022; No, 2023; No…

This latest production target is at least the fourth date Musk has promised.

When Musk announced the Cybertruck back in 2019, he promised it would be in production within two years. He later delayed that to 2022. Then delayed it again into 2023.

This latest announcement means the first trucks could leave factory doors this summer."

"When Tesla first announced the Cybertruck, no other automaker had publicly discussed building an electric pickup. But you may have noticed that, above, we mentioned a Ford electric truck already in customers’ parking spots.


Ford’s F-150 Lightning is hardly alone. GMC already sells its Hummer EV. Startup Rivian has delivered hundreds of R1T pickups to customers. Startup Lordstown Motors has begun customer deliveries of its Endurance truck.


General Motors has announced both a Chevrolet Silverado EV and a GMC Sierra EV, which could reach production before the Cybertruck, pushing Tesla’s debut to seventh at best. Ram’s 1500 Revolution – which seats six and can follow its owner like a puppy – is likely further behind."


From an earlier article (8/19/2021 after the first delay:
"It’s not clear whether most of the 1 million who have reserved a Cybertruck could be tempted away to more conventional-looking models that deliver earlier."


From an article (1/14/2022) after the second delay:
"It’s always difficult for journalists to get reliable information out of Tesla." "The futuristic, almost brutalist-styled Cybertruck was among the first electric pickups announced. But it now trails several competitors in getting to market."
Not much research in those articles since the #1 reason for CT delay is 4680s. No mention. Tesla is not where they had hoped to be in their ramp. Only 1 of 4 battery lines are up and running in Austin.

Neither did they mention the piddly volume of other OEMs. It's not like Ford, Rivian, and lol ..GM are crushing it. They've barely made a dent in the huge EV pickup market in the US. I agree with you that there's plenty of room for multiple players. It's going to come down to engineering excellence, cost, scale, and a shit ton of batteries. For those reasons, I remain very confident in Tesla's ability.
 
Didn’t we once have a bet about CT production LOL? The CT design screams gimmick. Low utility vs its peers. IDK what people would buy it for other than shock factor on the road. Elon could have hit a grand slam if he designed it more like a Ford Bronco or new Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon.
We never had a bet, but you said CT will NEVER be produced. You also said Lucid will eat Tesla's lunch. You're going to be 0-3 with your "gimmick" and "low utility" as well.

If you've been paying attention, it's not really in Tesla's DNA to copy what everyone else is doing. No doubt they could have made a traditional looking pickup, but that's not their first principles engineering philosophy. Like it or not, Tesla is now the industry leader in a rapidly changing space. Everyone else is following. The question is, can they keep up?
 
Ya see, right there. Either you're a complete idiot or have nefarious intentions. You're going to get called out on bullshit like this if you post it. You're trying to be slick by combining the base configuration, single motor CT price with the highest trim, tri motor specs (range).

So @Knight Shift , should I be labeled a "Tesla cheerleader" when I call out bullshit like the post above? I'm not being defensive. Tesla is not without its warts. I'm simply a fan of the truth. Plenty of misinformation in this thread and I will continue to call it like it is.
LOL…the irony.
 
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