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OT: Electric vehicles

RUAldo said:
Force myself into difficult charging situations?! The point I’m making has nothing to do with charging availability or planning - it has everything to do with math and basic finance. If towns install public chargers with 3.3KW-6.6KW and people have to pay $0.50-1.00 per EV mile you can forget about any meaningful adoption. For the record, I’m pro-EV…wife had a deposit on the Volvo EX-90 for close to 2 years. We both drive hybrids. But ICE vehicles are never, ever, going to be replaced by EVs unless the Gov’t or private sector makes a massive investment into infrastructure and charging tech.
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You keep missing the larger point. Name a place in LBI where there is enough cheap real estate for a high speed EV charging station with multiple stalls. And please explain why any company would make such an investment in a barrier island at risk for flooding and hurricane damage.

You are also stuck in the now is forever mindset, shitting down the possibilities of future technology development and other factors that will make EV charging less expensive. Why do you seem hyper focused on one small geographic location, and ignore the example I gave you that is a short distance from LBI?

You do realize that once you charge in Manahwkin and drive locally on LBI, EVs will consume very little of the state of charge due to regenerative braking. So, charge up on the way into the island, and charge up on the way out.

Newsflash-people who live and summer in LBI drive to Manahawkin for shopping that is not available on LBI. Still don't understand the point you are trying to make with such a poor example.
 
mildone said:
Didn’t there used to be LiDAR sensors in Teslas, or some other type? And at some point several years back, Musk made a big show of eliminating all but the cameras, saying they were all that was needed (which appears not to be, so much)?

Never mind, I looked it up myself. And yes, I recalled it correctly. And apparently Tesla has been stocking up on LiDAR sensors more recently which implies that Musk was wrong. But in the meantime, Tesla saved some money by eliminating the other, apparently necessary, components.

www.theverge.com

Tesla bought over $2 million worth of lidar sensors from Luminar this year

Tesla’s purchase was Luminar’s largest of the quarter.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
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Teslas currently sold don’t use lidar. They transitioned away in 21-22. They use lidar in research and development. So to your original post, he isn’t cutting sensors to make himself more money.
 
RUAldo said:
Force myself into difficult charging situations?! The point I’m making has nothing to do with charging availability or planning - it has everything to do with math and basic finance. If towns install public chargers with 3.3KW-6.6KW and people have to pay $0.50-1.00 per EV mile you can forget about any meaningful adoption. For the record, I’m pro-EV…wife had a deposit on the Volvo EX-90 for close to 2 years. We both drive hybrids. But ICE vehicles are never, ever, going to be replaced by EVs unless the Gov’t or private sector makes a massive investment into infrastructure and charging tech.
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You are correct, towns installing 6.5 watt chargers make no sense and aren’t a viable charging method. I don’t know anyone with an ev who would rely on them to charge.
 
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Rutgers Chris said:
Teslas currently sold don’t use lidar. They transitioned away in 21-22. They use lidar in research and development. So to your original post, he isn’t cutting sensors to make himself more money.
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Perhaps I was less than clear with my verb tenses somewhere, but I’m not saying it’s gonna happen in the future. I’m saying it already happened, in the past. I think around 2021. And Musk put out some pure marketing BS about other sensor types being problematic. As I said, this already happened years back.

Lots of people, including me, never believed his BS since he’s so prone to BSing about stuff, and figured it for a cost cutting measure. Which made even more sense given all the Tesla price cuts.

What’s new is Tesla buying a bunch of LiDAR sensors. Admitting Musk was wrong.
 
mildone said:
Perhaps I was less than clear with my verb tenses somewhere, but I’m not saying it’s gonna happen in the future. I’m saying it already happened, in the past. I think around 2021. And Musk put out some pure marketing BS about other sensor types being problematic. As I said, this already happened years back.

Lots of people, including me, never believed his BS since he’s so prone to BSing about stuff, and figured it for a cost cutting measure. Which made even more sense given all the Tesla price cuts.

What’s new is Tesla buying a bunch of LiDAR sensors. Admitting Musk was wrong.
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Buying $2 million worth of sensors to use in testing is a bit of a stretch to “admitting musk was wrong.” If they switch to lidar you’d be correct but that still remains to be seen. Your linked article touts Mercedes as having the top of the line lidar fsd system. The price tag is around $100k. Someone finding a way to do that at $30-40k is hopefully the goal.
 
Rutgers Chris said:
Buying $2 million worth of sensors to use in testing is a bit of a stretch to “admitting musk was wrong.” If they switch to lidar you’d be correct but that still remains to be seen. Your linked article touts Mercedes as having the top of the line lidar fsd system. The price tag is around $100k. Someone finding a way to do that at $30-40k is hopefully the goal.
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Not switch to, but add it back to work alongside the existing camera sensors. Pretty sure that combining radar, LiDAR, and cameras is the way to go.

Cheap is great until it costs lives. The Mercedes is in an entirely different league of luxury and comfort than a Tesla. They’re not comparable brands. It’s not the cost of the sensors that drives the price that high. It’s all that luxurious comfort, and the brand name.

At the volume Tesla would be buying the sensors, it won’t cut into Musk’s or consumer’s pockets too deeply to incorporate better self-driving tech. While the Teslerati are a wierdly cultish bunch, I have to think even they, given the option, would prefer Musk have to eat a little crow, so they can pay a bit more and avoid having their car drive itself into an emergency vehicle with their children inside.
 
mildone said:
Not switch to, but add it back to work alongside the existing camera sensors. Pretty sure that combining radar, LiDAR, and cameras is the way to go.

Cheap is great until it costs lives. The Mercedes is in an entirely different league of luxury and comfort than a Tesla. They’re not comparable brands. It’s not the cost of the sensors that drives the price that high. It’s all that luxurious comfort, and the brand name.

At the volume Tesla would be buying the sensors, it won’t cut into Musk’s or consumer’s pockets too deeply to incorporate better self-driving tech. While the Teslerati are a wierdly cultish bunch, I have to think even they, given the option, would prefer Musk have to eat a little crow, so they can pay a bit more and avoid having their car drive itself into an emergency vehicle with their children inside.
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mildone said:
Musk wants to cut costs on sensors in Teslas, ‘cause apparently, $200B+ isn’t enough and who cares if people die.
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Ok, so he’s not cutting costs on sensors?
 
mildone said:
Yes, he clearly did. You seem to be having reading comprehension issues today.
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None whatsoever. You posted an article saying “he wants to cut costs on sensors” then posted another saying that he’s adding costs via new sensor purchases. Just trying to understand which is true.
 
Rutgers Chris said:
None whatsoever. You posted an article saying “he wants to cut costs on sensors” then posted another saying that he’s adding costs via new sensor purchases. Just trying to understand which is true.
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Uh-huh, you’re just trolling, but that’s fair game. I subsequently explained it, but I’ll add to my prior explanation.

Not only did $2B man Musk exercise greed by implementing cost-cutting of required safety features in the past, it’s an ongoing exercise; it’s still taking place. He still pushing out cars today that lack the equipment to properly sense the environment around the car in all conditions thus increasing risk for everyone on the road in and around such ill-equipped cars.

So when someone buys a Tesla tomorrow, Musk will, in fact (chronologically accurately stated fact), be cutting costs on the cars sensors.

Unlike Musk, I am not so greedy and will happily take the hit on my Tesla stock when someone sues Tesla for millions and millions for choosing greed over safety. I wish Tesla would part ways with Musk, let a real CEO run things. Then, after the stock reacts, I’ll buy a bunch more cheap and ride it back up.
 
mildone said:
Uh-huh, you’re just trolling, but that’s fair game. I subsequently explained it, but I’ll add to my prior explanation.

Not only did $2B man Musk exercise greed by implementing cost-cutting of required safety features in the past, it’s an ongoing exercise; it’s still taking place. He still pushing out cars today that lack the equipment to properly sense the environment around the car in all conditions thus increasing risk for everyone on the road in and around such ill-equipped cars.

So when someone buys a Tesla tomorrow, Musk will, in fact (chronologically accurately stated fact), be cutting costs on the cars sensors.

Unlike Musk, I am not so greedy and will happily take the hit on my Tesla stock when someone sues Tesla for millions and millions for choosing greed over safety. I wish Tesla would part ways with Musk, let a real CEO run things. Then, after the stock reacts, I’ll buy a bunch more cheap and ride it back up.
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Not trolling, just trying to follow your posts. Last week you mistakenly thought Tesla hoods were opening themselves on highways and needed to be corrected. Not sure how you are so fundamentally against Tesla’s CEO and business model but still hold the stock, but you do you.
 
Rutgers Chris said:
Not trolling, just trying to follow your posts. Last week you mistakenly thought Tesla hoods were opening themselves on highways and needed to be corrected. Not sure how you are so fundamentally against Tesla’s CEO and business model but still hold the stock, but you do you.
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I started out neutral about Musk, mostly because I didn’t know anything about him. But this thread brought him up a lot, so I started learning more about him. I think he was weird but otherwise harmless for a long time. Pretty much up until some point prior to his purchase of Twitter.

Then something changed with him, no idea what. He behaves like he started believing his own BS. At which point, like everyone else who believes their own BS and takes themselves too seriously, he started doing some really dumb stuff.

I’m not against him. I just prefer he not be the CEO of Tesla anymore. Do the dumb stuff somewhere else.
 
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Hope they figure it out. Also hope they do a facelift and go with more traditional looking headlight arrangement, or at least something different. But the whole rest of the vehicle looks nice.

jalopnik.com

Rivian Is Still Losing More Than $32,000 On Every EV Sold

Plus Tesla rolled out a fix for more than 1.6 million cars and automakers are named in a lawsuit over canceled Twitter ads following Elon Musk’s takeover
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
 
mildone said:
Uh-huh, you’re just trolling, but that’s fair game. I subsequently explained it, but I’ll add to my prior explanation.

Not only did $2B man Musk exercise greed by implementing cost-cutting of required safety features in the past, it’s an ongoing exercise; it’s still taking place. He still pushing out cars today that lack the equipment to properly sense the environment around the car in all conditions thus increasing risk for everyone on the road in and around such ill-equipped cars.

So when someone buys a Tesla tomorrow, Musk will, in fact (chronologically accurately stated fact), be cutting costs on the cars sensors.

Unlike Musk, I am not so greedy and will happily take the hit on my Tesla stock when someone sues Tesla for millions and millions for choosing greed over safety. I wish Tesla would part ways with Musk, let a real CEO run things. Then, after the stock reacts, I’ll buy a bunch more cheap and ride it back up.
Click to expand...
wow - you are obsessed with the man. There is simply no denying what his companies have accomplished - I get the feeling your hate is coming for reasons not related to business choices?
 
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letitrip2 said:
wow - you are obsessed with the man. There is simply no denying what his companies have accomplished - I get the feeling your hate is coming for reasons not related to business choices?
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Aw… did I hurt your wittle feewings? Did pointing out how your hero puts personal greed over his customer’s safety trigger you?

One of us is definitely obsessed, responding to posts made nearly two weeks ago to leap faithfully to the $200B man’s defense with some cultish adoration. 😉
 
Last edited:
RU-05 said:
Musk gives a Cybertruck to Chechen leader?

www.independent.co.uk

Russia’s Kadyrov equips Tesla Cybertruck with machine gun for war

The Chechen leader called Musk the ‘strongest genius of modern times’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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I’ll go out on a limb and say he didn’t give it to him. His post said “we received a cybertruck from the esteemed Elon Musk.” Reuters article says “Kadyrov, known for extravagant publicity stunts...”. Kinda ironic as Musk loves a good publicity stunt, doubt he loves this one.

I do wonder what the charging network looks like in Eastern Ukraine. Doesn’t seem like a good purchase.
 
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Got caught driving in that crazy rain storm yesterday. But felt great in the Lighting. The height, weight and no ICE gave me confidence going through some water. Had a ICE SUV behind me and that car didn’t follow me through this one stretch that was about 2+ feet of water.
 
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jtung230 said:
Got caught driving in that crazy rain storm yesterday. But felt great in the Lighting. The height, weight and no ICE gave me confidence going through some water. Had a ICE SUV behind me and that car didn’t follow me through this one stretch that was about 2+ feet of water.
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There are videos of the Cybertruck driving through deep water. Is the Lightning configured to do that without damaging the batteries?
 
Knight Shift said:
At what point should the government stop propping up the EV market? When it achieves 20%, 30%, 40% or more of the vehicle market? Don't have a data point and have not given it much thought.
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The government should focus on public charging infrastructure incentives, not EV purchase incentives. That will help EV makers and EV owners alike by maintaining adoption momentum without mandates which are widely unpopular and politically problematic.
 
jtung230 said:
You shouldn’t shop online while getting high.
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Space x isn’t efficient? I know it’s not in the news but we are a few months away from NASA having to ask them to go get our stranded astronauts off of the space station because of the bloated, failed contract given to Boeing.

How about Starlink?
 
Rutgers Chris said:
Though the whole thing was a joke, he clearly runs very efficient companies. Buying Twitter and burning it down with political opinions aside.
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I'm not entirely certain the whole thing is entirely a joke. Probably it is, but perhaps not. In any event, at this stage, I think it more likely than not to be moot.

IMO, running a business and running government (president, governor, mayor of a large city) are not equivalent things. Doing either thing can certainly help provide some of the necessary experience to do the other. But not all the necessary experience. I think some of the experience learned running a business has to be somewhat unlearned to do a good job running government.

While the skill sets overlap some, I don't see them as an exact fit. And for sure, the disposition required to do a good job as a business owner doesn't always equal having the right disposition to do a good job running a government.

FWIW, I think Musk is intelligent enough to learn how to do a great job at just about anything he sets his mind to doing. But recently, I suspect his disposition and general willingness to learn are severely compromised (by what I don't know). Which is why I wish he'd step down from running any of the businesses.

If he undergoes a major attitude adjustment then I would revise my opinions about him.
 
jtung230 said:
You shouldn’t shop online while getting high.
Click to expand...
If the rumors some of his current/former employees have spread about him are true, then he does seem to have an ongoing drug problem. In which case, that might help explain his attitude issues (childishness and overactive ego). But it's hard to know the truth about such things.
 
mildone said:
I'm not entirely certain the whole thing is entirely a joke. Probably it is, but perhaps not. In any event, at this stage, I think it more likely than not to be moot.

IMO, running a business and running government (president, governor, mayor of a large city) are not equivalent things. Doing either thing can certainly help provide some of the necessary experience to do the other. But not all the necessary experience. I think some of the experience learned running a business has to be somewhat unlearned to do a good job running government.

While the skill sets overlap some, I don't see them as an exact fit. And for sure, the disposition required to do a good job as a business owner doesn't always equal having the right disposition to do a good job running a government.

FWIW, I think Musk is intelligent enough to learn how to do a great job at just about anything he sets his mind to doing. But recently, I suspect his disposition and general willingness to learn are severely compromised (by what I don't know). Which is why I wish he'd step down from running any of the businesses.

If he undergoes a major attitude adjustment then I would revise my opinions about him.
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Department of Government Efficiency. DOGE. Anything to get a Dogecoin reference out there. Someone posted it under a comment on Twitter and he ran with it. Agree on the rest, he'd be crazy to do it.
 
At least he pays his debts...

www.businessinsider.com

Elon Musk made a $13 billion blunder. Wall Street still wants to work with him.

Yet another reason the world's richest man isn't like the rest of us.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

OTOH, the Lannisters always paid their debts and look what happened to them. 🙂

I didn't realize that twitter revenues are down 50% since Musk acquired it (if Business Insider and my reading comprehension can be trusted, at least).
 
mildone said:
At least he pays his debts...

www.businessinsider.com

Elon Musk made a $13 billion blunder. Wall Street still wants to work with him.

Yet another reason the world's richest man isn't like the rest of us.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

OTOH, the Lannisters always paid their debts and look what happened to them. 🙂

I didn't realize that twitter revenues are down 50% since Musk acquired it (if Business Insider and my reading comprehension can be trusted, at least).
Click to expand...
And I don't think Rev's were good when he bought it.

Company has always had trouble monetizing despite high usage.
 
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