OT: Electric vehicles

[lne001]

Most people don’t even know that Tesla was founded in July 2003 by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning.

True, depending on what you mean by 'founded'. They chartered the company name in July 2003 and Eberhard had a general business concept (electric motor/battery/software), but no funding.

Six months later later they (and a 3rd employee Wright) went to Musk for VC funding, and he supplied 87% of their original $7.5 million Series A. Musk became Chairman.

From 2006-2008 Musk led more funding rounds, raising some $187 million, of which $70 million was his own. At this point he was appointed CEO and Eberhard and Tarpenning left Tesla. Also, Musk was the leader for the design work for the Roadster, from power components to styling.

 

[RUevolution36]

The quicker you pass through the third stage of grief, the better.

you didn't answer the question.

 

[lne001]

He is in it for the money.

If so he is doing a poor job. Virtually everything he may have is on paper and invested in his businesses, which some people in this thread believe will be bankrupt soon enough in any case.

Saving the planet and humanity? LMFAO.

Two questions for you.

Are electric cars and solar energy better for humanity than ICE cars and burning hydrocarbons?

Is world-wide broadband a positive for the future of humanity?

 

[lne001]

do you spit or swallow?

you didn't answer the question.

Kind of a puerile question, don't you think. I know you believe it is a witty barb, but you may want to reconsider that position.

 

[RUevolution36]

/Kind of a puerile question, don't you think. I know you believe it is a witty barb, but you may want to reconsider that position.

i know you are, but what am i? rubber, glue, you know how it goes

 

[lne001]

i know you are, but what am i? rubber, glue, you know how it goes

Not really. It's been quite a while since I was seven years old.

 

[mildone]

View embedded media

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. HA.

Nobody could possibly be into space due to ANY other reasons other than Musk. Heh. Heh heh. Heh heh ha. Ha ha ha hAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

I literally have tears in my eyes from laughing. This stuff is so great.

@lne001, are you gonna read a tweet like that and still claim there's no Teslarati cult? At least Baron made billions off Musk, rather than just giving a bunch to Musk like most Teslarati. Still pathetic to do the idolization thing, but less pathetic than having little to show for it but a car and a some stock.

 

[mdk01]

Virtually everything he may have is on paper and invested in his businesses, which some people in this thread believe will be bankrupt soon enough in any case.

Kindly name the poster(s) who said he is nearing bankruptcy. Saying a stock is overvalued is NOT saying it is going bankrupt. Holy hyperbole Batman.

 

[mildone]

Kind of a puerile question, don't you think. I know you believe it is a witty barb, but you may want to reconsider that position.

Ooooh, a grown-up. We're all so impressed. 😉

I've considered, and reconsidered, and reconsidered yet again. And it's immediately obvious to even the most casual of observers that it was a highly pertinent question phrased in terms people who cultishly idolize other people can understand.

 

[lne001]

Kindly name the poster(s) who said he is nearing bankruptcy. Saying a stock is overvalued is NOT saying it is going bankrupt. Holy hyperbole Batman.

I'm sorry. I sometimes confuse some posters on this thread with those on the Reddit 'Real Tesla' forum.

 

[RUevolution36]

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. HA.

Nobody could possibly be into space due to ANY other reasons other than Musk. Heh. Heh heh. Heh heh ha. Ha ha ha hAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

I literally have tears in my eyes from laughing. This stuff is so great.

@lne001, are you gonna read a tweet like that and still claim there's no Teslarati cult? At least Baron made billions off Musk, rather than just giving a bunch to Musk like most Teslarati. Still pathetic to do the idolization thing, but less pathetic than having little to show for it but a car and a some stock.

shhh...he's one of them.

 

[lne001]

@lne001, are you gonna read a tweet like that and still claim there's no Teslarati cult?

Unlike you, I don't seek out what I already know to be biased and inaccurate information. I'm not on Twitter and seldom read any embedded tweets. I suggest you do likewise.

Still pathetic to do the idolization thing, but less pathetic than having little to show for it but a car and a some stock.

I don't idolize Musk and have a Model Y and half a million due to Tesla. How pathetic is that?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Unlike you, I don't seek out what I already know to be biased and inaccurate information. I'm not on Twitter and seldom read any embedded tweets. I suggest you do likewise.


I don't idolize Musk and have a Model Y and half a million due to Tesla. How pathetic is that?

I'm fine with being criticized for being a Tesla booster. Done responding to childish insults.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[mildone]

Unlike you, I don't seek out what I already know to be biased and inaccurate information. I'm not on Twitter and seldom read any embedded tweets. I suggest you do likewise.


I don't idolize Musk and have a Model Y and half a million due to Tesla. How pathetic is that?

I have never sought out tweets about Tesla (or any other auto maker) and never will. Booooooooooooooooooring. I do read automotive "magazine" articles posted on their various websites, and I like to read Jalopnik which is a great source of highly irreverent humor about the automotive industry (but not a great source of accurate information). The Teslerati cite Jalopnik as a biased source. But Jalopnik like to mock lots of different people and companies - it's part of their schtick. It's what they do. The Teslerati are just super thin-skinned.

Not sure why I should avoid the embedded tweets others post - I'm having way too much fun mocking them.

And I never said you idolize Musk. Others here, as evidenced by the recent embedded (and highly mock-worthy) tweet, do. Since we're giving advice, I advise you to not take personally that which isn't aimed at you.

As for posting about your investment earnings, I'm happy for you, congratulations. I personally would never go into that level of detail about my holdings, earnings, finances, etc. online. Hell, I don't even do that with my closest friends. But that's just me. Since you've earned so much, you can probably afford a real car, like a Taycan or e-Tron GT? Just kidding, jeez. 😃

 

[mildone]

I'm fine with being criticized for being a Tesla booster. Done responding to childish insults.

You prefer grown-up insults? 😃

Me, I love all kinds of insults. Childish ones, grown-up ones, alien ones (Klingon is ideal). What's could be more fun than trading insults?

 

[RUevolution36]

You prefer grown-up insults? 😃

Me, I love all kinds of insults. Childish ones, grown-up ones, alien ones (Klingon is ideal). What's could be more fun than trading insults?

british ones are great, but sometimes it goes over the heads of us yanks

 

[mildone]

View embedded media

And yet the ID.4 is the World Car of the Year. Huh. EPA ranges are apparently disinformation anyway, as shown by numerous real-world tests by various automotive magazines.

And why does the tweet inaccurately list the price for the model Y? The model Y long range listed on the Tesla site says $58,900 without having added any options at all.

And why doesn't the tweet list any price at all for the ID.4? For many people doing comparisons, that would seem kind of important, no?

Very disinformation filled, and biased, embedded tweet. Sad.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

And yet the ID.4 is the World Car of the Year. Huh. EPA ranges are apparently disinformation anyway, as shown by numerous real-world tests by various automotive magazines.

And why does the tweet inaccurately list the price for the model Y? The model Y long range listed on the Tesla site says $58,900 without having added any options at all.

And why doesn't the tweet list any price at all for the ID.4? For many people doing comparisons, that would seem kind of important, no?

Very disinformation filled, and biased, embedded tweet. Sad.

The tweet wasn't even about the sales price. There were a bunch of posts about Tesla sale prices hundreds of posts ago if you're more interested in Tesla sales price than comparative ranges.

 

[mildone]

The tweet wasn't even about the sales price. There were a bunch of posts about Tesla sale prices hundreds of posts ago if you're more interested in Tesla sales price than comparative ranges.

Drat! You caught me. I don't actually care about the sales price at all having no interest in either car. Both are relatively inexpensive anyway. Just having fun pointing out the disinformation.

I might care a little what the Macan EV price winds up being, though. But only if it's real-world range is at or approaching 500 miles. Which I doubt it will be. And they'll probably do like everybody else and stick skinny-ass friction-avoiding wheels on it, making it uninteresting to me, those bastards.

Why do I want that kind of range when the Macan GTS only gets ~375 miles per tank? Because charging infrastructure isn't comparable to gas infrastructure yet. But Porsche is hinting that the range will be something special (I'm skeptical and believe it's mostly BS, but they haven't defined what "special" means, so we'll see).

 

[Knight Shift]

The EV revolution is entirely driven by government policies. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

To your point.
Nothing against any one political party or person, but do we really expect the government to do this well and do it right?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

@BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

I agree Tesla doesn’t have much competition right now. But I think its crazy talk if you think it’s not coming.

It's definitely coming.....from China. Chinese EV companies don't have any half-ass proclamations for 2025 or 2030. They're going all out now. Japanese auto of the 80s-90s will be Chinese EVs this decade.

I think it's crazy to assume all legacy autos will make it through this transition. There will be casualties. History has a very long list of once dominant companies that were not able to adapt to disruption.

 

[mildone]

That’s it. Mercedes wins.

If one is buying a near silent car (i.e. an EV), then one wants the best possible sound system. And the Mercedes is the top dog in that hunt.

Mercedes cars will have optional Dolby Atmos audio starting in 2022

Mercedes is bringing Dolby Atmos audio to its cars, starting with its poshest models.

www.engadget.com

Dolby Atmos with 31 speakers? 1750 watts? Game over.

 

[Knight Shift]

It's definitely coming.....from China. Chinese EV companies don't have any half-ass proclamations for 2025 or 2030. They're going all out now. Japanese auto of the 80s-90s will be Chinese EVs this decade.

I think it's crazy to assume all legacy autos will make it through this transition. There will be casualties. History has a very long list of once dominant companies that were not able to adapt to disruption.

You seem awfully firm in your position on legacy auto companies. What makes you so sure? Not attacking you in any way, just looking for some sort of basis for this position, other than a historical perspective, and maybe an example would be useful.

Also, what is the purported timeline when the US is at 50%, and then 100% electric. At the present time, there are not enough charging stations (except for Tesla owners?), and is the grid equipped to provide all of this additional power that is going to be produced to power automobiles? Has anyone done the calculations required for this?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I'm fine with being criticized for being a Tesla booster. Done responding to childish insults.

Or at least get some new material. How about some creativity and wittiness? One thing I do laugh about is I'll be retiring early thanks to my Lord and savior Elon.

 

[mdk01]

To your point.
Nothing against any one political party or person, but do we really expect the government to do this well and do it right?

View embedded media

Was anyone else who watched that reminded of this?

 

[mildone]

Or at least get some new material. How about some creativity and wittiness? One thing I do laugh about is I'll be retiring early thanks to my Lord and savior Elon.

Couldn’t have been much of a savior if you’re still working now.

Got anything else? 😉

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

You seem awfully firm in your position on legacy auto companies. What makes you so sure? Not attacking you in any way, just looking for some sort of basis for this position, other than a historical perspective, and maybe an example would be useful.

Also, what is the purported timeline when the US is at 50%, and then 100% electric. At the present time, there are not enough charging stations (except for Tesla owners?), and is the grid equipped to provide all of this additional power that is going to be produced to power automobiles? Has anyone done the calculations required for this?

I'll give a reply. I'm worried the debt of some of the auto companies - Ford, Volkswagon, some other. (Notably, not GM).

Here's some info on EVs/the grid. I agree there will be challenge in ramping up electrical production to meet EV demands, but EVs have a few things going for them - charging can be done at off-peak hours + EVs can serve as generators or potentially supply power to grid during peak demand times.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/12/f69/GITT%20ISATT%20EVs%20at%20Scale%20Grid%20Summary%20Report%20FINAL%20Nov2019.pdf

Electric Cars Will Challenge State Power Grids • Stateline

SEATTLE — When Seattle City Light unveiled five new electric vehicle charging stations last month in an industrial neighborhood south of downtown, the electric utility wasn’t just offering a new spot for drivers to fuel up. It also was creating a way for the utility to figure out how much more...

www.pewtrusts.org

 

[LBusDoor90]

Kind of a puerile question, don't you think. I know you believe it is a witty barb, but you may want to reconsider that position.

It was somewhat witty the first time he went with this theme. Now it’s just a sign of real deep anger since the joke has reached double digit attempts.

 

[LBusDoor90]

It's definitely coming.....from China. Chinese EV companies don't have any half-ass proclamations for 2025 or 2030. They're going all out now. Japanese auto of the 80s-90s will be Chinese EVs this decade.

I think it's crazy to assume all legacy autos will make it through this transition. There will be casualties. History has a very long list of once dominant companies that were not able to adapt to disruption.

Communism sucks. We all agree on that.
But when a centralized government makes the right long term decision on a market (and has the added advantage of directing unrelated capital toward that goal from other sources of wealth it has accumulated, often on the backs of its people’s near slave labor), the once dominant companies you speak of that are dragging their feet to maintain short term wealth for their aging leaders and middle management will be the casualties you speak of.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

You seem awfully firm in your position on legacy auto companies. What makes you so sure? Not attacking you in any way, just looking for some sort of basis for this position, other than a historical perspective, and maybe an example would be useful.

Also, what is the purported timeline when the US is at 50%, and then 100% electric. At the present time, there are not enough charging stations (except for Tesla owners?), and is the grid equipped to provide all of this additional power that is going to be produced to power automobiles? Has anyone done the calculations required for this?

If you agree that EVs represent a major technological disruption, my historical references should be enough. I referenced Herbert Deiss a number of times already. He's honest enough to admit publicly that VW is in trouble.

On the other hand, Mary Barra recently said that GM can "absolutely" catch Tesla by 2025 in EV sales. GM plans on selling 1 million EVs in 2025. Tesla is currently at a 1 million vehicle / year run rate, with 2 new factories about to come on line. Square that circle.

Most EV charging takes place at home and at night, so less strain on the grid. But you're correct. Infrastructure needs to improve especially in urban areas, condos, apartments, parking garages.

 

[Knight Shift]

If you agree that EVs represent a major technological disruption, my historical references should be enough. I referenced Herbert Deiss a number of times already. He's honest enough to admit publicly that VW is in trouble.

On the other hand, Mary Barra recently said that GM can "absolutely" catch Tesla by 2025 in EV sales. GM plans on selling 1 million EVs in 2025. Tesla is currently at a 1 million vehicle / year run rate, with 2 new factories about to come on line. Square that circle.

Most EV charging takes place at home and at night, so less strain on the grid. But you're correct. Infrastructure needs to improve especially in urban areas, condos, apartments, parking garages.

I can't follow this thread because it is basically a low grade pissing match, and that is unfortunate (not your fault).

I was interested in what historical industries/companies failed because they failed to pivot fast enough. You gave me the names of CEOs of current ICE and future EV car companies. If you do not have time to provide the info, that is OK.

But just today, our President said that as part of some huge colossal waste of money that most government programs tend to be, the US was going to provide 500,000 charging stations across the United States. Aren't those types of charging stations the ones that people will use to "fill up" their EVs while they are travelling? Will the daytime grid, especially in the summer months be able to support those particular EV charging stations? Didn't California experience several rolling blackouts over the last few years already?

Not trying to throw cold water on EV. Just wondering about these things.

 

[mdk01]

(Notably, not GM).

"Thank you" Obama and the UAW. Getting to keep the tax attributes was totally unprecedented and made it the sweetest bailout of all time. Those poor suckers who had those bonds in a retirement account.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I can't follow this thread because it is basically a low grade pissing match, and that is unfortunate (not your fault).

I was interested in what historical industries/companies failed because they failed to pivot fast enough. You gave me the names of CEOs of current ICE and future EV car companies. If you do not have time to provide the info, that is OK.

But just today, our President said that as part of some huge colossal waste of money that most government programs tend to be, the US was going to provide 500,000 charging stations across the United States. Aren't those types of charging stations the ones that people will use to "fill up" their EVs while they are travelling? Will the daytime grid, especially in the summer months be able to support those particular EV charging stations? Didn't California experience several rolling blackouts over the last few years already?

Not trying to throw cold water on EV. Just wondering about these things.

Historical examples? One interesting graphic is to look at the top ten companies by market capitalization - by decade.

Examples on this alone include most of the oil companies, Eastman Kodak and GE. I suspect we may see a number of leading banks fall back as Fin Tech firms take root and outcompete the banks.

Other examples: Blockbuster, Xerox, US car companies since the 1970s, Blackberry, Yahoo!, AOL. The list goes on and on.

 

[mdk01]

Historical examples? One interesting graphic is to look at the top ten companies by market capitalization - by decade.

Examples on this alone include most of the oil companies, Eastman Kodak and GE. I suspect we may see a number of leading banks fall back as Fin Tech firms take root and outcompete the banks.

Other examples: Blockbuster, Xerox, US car companies since the 1970s, Blackberry, Yahoo!, AOL. The list goes on and on.

A minor quibble but AT&T got broken up by the government.

 

[jtung230]

If so he is doing a poor job. Virtually everything he may have is on paper and invested in his businesses, which some people in this thread believe will be bankrupt soon enough in any case.


Two questions for you.

Are electric cars and solar energy better for humanity than ICE cars and burning hydrocarbons?

Is world-wide broadband a positive for the future of humanity?

Serious? He has borrowed a boat load of money on his stocks. God forbid that he sells and incurred a tax liability. If he really cared about humanity, he would stop kissing China’s ass. It’s capitalism. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[RC1991]

The one thing that has kept me out of getting an EV now has been range and availability of charging. That being said my financial advisor has a few positions in EVs for me that have been doing well both US and Chinese companies (Tesla, Lucid, Xpeng, Nio). Will we curious to see how Rivian does when it goes public. Tesla and now Lucid have much better range than the standard car companies offering EVs and the Lucid range is well over 450 miles in real world tests. We would have considered an Audi etron a coup,e years back with that kind of range. As for the grid that will be a challenge. We added solar to our house recently with battery backup. The battery is a 16 kW LG not a Tesla. What’s intriguing is being able to charge your EV via home solar and having your EV provide backup power in the event of an outage. Most Tesla and other EVs battery packs have 3x or more capacity than one home battery these days. Doesn’t solve the charging while on the road but if more homes go solar the demand on the grid will likely go down and have additional electricity available for charging applications for EVs on the road.

 

[jtung230]

@RC1991

Is the F150 lighting the only EV that can be used as a backup generator or are there others? I ordered it because of that feature.

 

[RC1991]

@RC1991

Is the F150 lighting the only EV that can be used as a backup generator or are there others? I ordered it because of that feature.

Officially I think it’s the only one. But with our PV system we have an inverter and backup interface to charge the battery and use battery power during an outage. I would bet down the road that they will have the capability to allow for the use of an EV to fill the role of the backup battery. In our case and with other backup batteries you can also run off of them at night if you have variable rates for electric. We don’t so only have it setup for backup. BTW I think the Lightning is pretty nice - if we didn’t tow a heavy trailer on backroads would consider it. Would love to see a solar panel tonneau cover that could supplement recharging!

 

[RU#1fan]

If you agree that EVs represent a major technological disruption, my historical references should be enough. I referenced Herbert Deiss a number of times already. He's honest enough to admit publicly that VW is in trouble.

On the other hand, Mary Barra recently said that GM can "absolutely" catch Tesla by 2025 in EV sales. GM plans on selling 1 million EVs in 2025. Tesla is currently at a 1 million vehicle / year run rate, with 2 new factories about to come on line. Square that circle.

Most EV charging takes place at home and at night, so less strain on the grid. But you're correct. Infrastructure needs to improve especially in urban areas, condos, apartments, parking garages.

Spot on