Production in minutes played is apples to apples, regardless of how many games were played. Yes, now updated after PJ played well and it sounds like Gavin barely played PJ now has more rebounds and assists, which he didn't prior to now. Still keeping an eye on it, but definitely starting to look like we came out on the better end for this year.
OT: Gavin Griffiths
- Thread starter Mr Magoo
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Seems like GG was getting better coaching and PT and making more progress at RU. Time spent here learning the system would have helped him this year. He is starting over at Neb as just another portal guy in the herd.
I still think he has promise and will develop faster once he gets beyond his own expectations.
I still think he has promise and will develop faster once he gets beyond his own expectations.
He should have been able to catch in paint and score every time with height advantage.
good post...
and tbh it doesn't even tell the entire tale. hayes is so much better than gavin would be on this team it's not even worth discussing. in addition to above he's also a willing defender and gavin is a cone. he's also an a+ teammate and gavin moped around most of last year.
it's like comparing derkack to mag. which again is no comparison.
I watched about 10 minutes of their game against St. Mary's just to see him play. Consecutive possessions he gave up easy buckets, then came out.
“Gavin is a cone”…lmao. You’re not wrong. I think it’s clear that Gavin’s lack of success wasn’t Pike’s fault (except perhaps in recruiting him). I don’t think Hoiberg will have as much patience. I realize evaluations are often based on potential but it’s just amazing how the evaluators were so off base on him.
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Yes! A+ teammate. Hayes sprints across the court to help his teammates up every time. Makes the extra pass. Shares. Gavin spent most of his time in his own head.
This is a little unfair to Mag's contributions when he was giving 100% effort. In that scenario, he was a really good piece of the puzzle. Derkack is bringing more, no doubt, but the peak Mag vs. peak Derkack comparison is much closer than peak Hayes vs. peak GG.
I agree with your point on the good teammate/clubhouse/attitude side. Both Hayes and Derkack are HUGE upgrades in those areas.
I love that martini and hayes set up on the 3 point line and not 5 feet behind it. How many deep 3's did GG launch last year?
Interesting one tonight, Woolf and 2-1 Miami(OH) travel to Michigan. Woolf is averaging 10.7pts, 7.7 Reb on 62.5% shooting{15-24).
I don't think anyone disagrees, but we will compare their season's all year long.
dercack is no where near what Mag gave us before going down 2 years ago. Everyone has a right to be upset at Mag, but you aren't being fair.
1000% true. Everything Rutgers is far superior to everything non-Rutgers around here. No intellectual honesty.
I think it's closer than you think. Mag did his thing extremely well as a defender and elite garbage man. Dercack gives us another ball handler and got 9 assists last game with some truly brilliant passing. He's disruptive on D. Not nearly as good a defender as Mag. But Mag was sometimes a liability with the ball on an O that was known for bogging down and having long scoring droughts.
Anyone notice Mag is barely playing at BYU? He was good here in his role, glue guy with D and rebounding, but I think we will all think Dercak is the much better player by season end. He is going to play a lot, you can see Pike loves him like he loved Paul and Mag (pre ACL). Smart Tough player that stuffs the stat sheet without scoring
Surprised Mag hasn't made more impact. Is he not playing well? Injured? Or does the BYU coach just not value the things he does well as much as Pike?
I was comparing what Gavin vs. Hayes would give us THIS year and what Derkack vs. Mag would give us THIS year. I'm being more than fair. Derkack is a way better fit for this team than Mag would have been. If for nothing else than one of them quit on his team last year and is now riding the bench for his new team.
You want to talk peak Mag vs. Derkack than fine. But that guy hasn't been around for a minute.
PJ has already become a fan favorite. Great personality and fits in so well with the team. He’s Cam with charisma and without sociopathy (fwiw, I love Cams sociopathy).
Mag is not a guard, so it makes no sense to compare him to Derkack.
Dribbling-Derkack
Footspeed-Derkack
Rebounding-Mag
Passing abilities-Derkack
Ability to create offense-Derkack
Intangibles-Mag but really TBD
Defensive flexibility-Mag
Intensity/Hustle=Draw
Shooting =Draw
If you put Derkack on the RU rosters of the last 2 years, he overlaps and provides many of the same things Mag does, but doesn't help increase the offense, other than being a better passer.
On the 2024-25 roster, Derkack is clearly the better player and better fit for how RU is playing, with more tempo (dribbling, shooting, passing and team sacrifice). Mag (and a lot of the departed players) are good players individually, but they don't fit the style of play surrounding Ace, Dylan and Lathan Sommerville.
I could argue very easily that Gavin Griffiths HS Shooting and tape "should" have fit as a player to help Ace, Dylan etc, but he is simply not enough of a worker on his physical strength, quickness, dribbling and stamina to rebound and defend, the way Martini, Hayes, Derkack, Jwill, JMike and Acuff are......and Acuff is playing just a month or so off a broken foot that had him sidelined for 3+ months.
Gavin simply didn't put the work in on the other aspects of his game, so he could stay on the court and allow any coaching staff to find him minutes to shoot and score.
Mag, from a skill perspective (dribble, shooting, passing), doesn't grade out anywhere near a Power 4 starter, even at full strength or without injuries.
His defense is a strength, but it's not better than Derkack has shown in limited action and Derkack moves the ball and passes significantly better than Mag ever could. If Derkack puts together a string of shot attempts that go in the basket, it will be impossible to take him off the floor.
Dribbling-Derkack
Footspeed-Derkack
Rebounding-Mag
Passing abilities-Derkack
Ability to create offense-Derkack
Intangibles-Mag but really TBD
Defensive flexibility-Mag
Intensity/Hustle=Draw
Shooting =Draw
If you put Derkack on the RU rosters of the last 2 years, he overlaps and provides many of the same things Mag does, but doesn't help increase the offense, other than being a better passer.
On the 2024-25 roster, Derkack is clearly the better player and better fit for how RU is playing, with more tempo (dribbling, shooting, passing and team sacrifice). Mag (and a lot of the departed players) are good players individually, but they don't fit the style of play surrounding Ace, Dylan and Lathan Sommerville.
I could argue very easily that Gavin Griffiths HS Shooting and tape "should" have fit as a player to help Ace, Dylan etc, but he is simply not enough of a worker on his physical strength, quickness, dribbling and stamina to rebound and defend, the way Martini, Hayes, Derkack, Jwill, JMike and Acuff are......and Acuff is playing just a month or so off a broken foot that had him sidelined for 3+ months.
Gavin simply didn't put the work in on the other aspects of his game, so he could stay on the court and allow any coaching staff to find him minutes to shoot and score.
Mag, from a skill perspective (dribble, shooting, passing), doesn't grade out anywhere near a Power 4 starter, even at full strength or without injuries.
His defense is a strength, but it's not better than Derkack has shown in limited action and Derkack moves the ball and passes significantly better than Mag ever could. If Derkack puts together a string of shot attempts that go in the basket, it will be impossible to take him off the floor.
Mag was one of the best defensive players in the country. When he played within himself offensively , he became an asset. In a lineup that could play defense on a historic level with Caleb and Cliff, he was irreplaceable. That team was like no other I have seen at Rutgers. That lineup included 3or 4 ( I go back to 76 with RU) guys that could guard anyone on the other team no matter what their position was .
That being said , that team could only play in the 60s. With Cliff , Hyatt and mag on the floor , that lineup had at least 3 guys that could not be trusted with the ball on a break .
Fast forward to this year and look at the number of players we have with good basketball skills .
I like Derkack but I really need to see him against Big 10 caliber players before I really feel confident
I will say that with guys like Ace and Dylan, shooters and passers on the perimeter make it much easier for them
If Derkack and Acuff can be plus 30 percent 3pt shooters (33% is really my goal for any player) and
If Lathan can continue to improve defensively and on the boards
We won't miss any of those guys including Cliff
That being said , that team could only play in the 60s. With Cliff , Hyatt and mag on the floor , that lineup had at least 3 guys that could not be trusted with the ball on a break .
Fast forward to this year and look at the number of players we have with good basketball skills .
I like Derkack but I really need to see him against Big 10 caliber players before I really feel confident
I will say that with guys like Ace and Dylan, shooters and passers on the perimeter make it much easier for them
If Derkack and Acuff can be plus 30 percent 3pt shooters (33% is really my goal for any player) and
If Lathan can continue to improve defensively and on the boards
We won't miss any of those guys including Cliff
Now this conversation jumped the shark. It's getting silly. Derkack can't and therefore won't often shoot. He's already passed up several wide open threes. He's an intangibles and hustle player. Rebounds, putbacks, etc. Not only won't he shoot 30% from three...he may not even take many open three except if the shot clock is under a couple of seconds.
At their best, Mag much more talented overall. Elite defender and serviceable on O with some crafty skill in the paint and an average jumper for a 3. Derkack a good defender with very limited offensive talent. His PT is to provide help D because Ace and DH won't. Already we see DH cherry picking and not getting back on D. He's here to light up the scoreboard, period.
One might say Derkack is an excellent fit for this team...providing experience and balance. But Mag was a far superior player. Shelby wouldn't be surprised if JWIll starts over him.
At their best, Mag much more talented overall. Elite defender and serviceable on O with some crafty skill in the paint and an average jumper for a 3. Derkack a good defender with very limited offensive talent. His PT is to provide help D because Ace and DH won't. Already we see DH cherry picking and not getting back on D. He's here to light up the scoreboard, period.
One might say Derkack is an excellent fit for this team...providing experience and balance. But Mag was a far superior player. Shelby wouldn't be surprised if JWIll starts over him.
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Average jumper for a 3? He is at 26.2% for his career.
Mag was always going to be valued more here because of the way Pike liked to play. At his peak here, he was a key part of triggering the defense, especially when he was at the top of a press. He was never as good of a player as he sometimes appeared to be here. He’s probably just getting exposed at BYU. Last season reeked of selfishness and he got his $ so I’d be surprised if he isn’t happy there anyway.
Shelby was referring to Derkack. Did not someone suggest he could be a 30% pt shooter ? Hogwash.
Scroll and ye shall see. Snowboarder said it and Shelby refuted. Yinz is confused, PA guy
I just turned it on when I saw your post – – I got to see him make a really bad turnover. However, his numbers on the year have improved dramatically from what he did at RU.
Nice win by St Joes, but Simpson with 0, missed a follow up dunk and a wide open 3 in final mins
Looked exactly like last year. Missed 2 drives (neither were strong to the hole) and coughed it up driving to the hole on a fast break in the 1st half.
St. Joes has some players.
St. Joes has some players.
He did. 50% of the time he caught the ball beyond the arc he shot it.
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