Agree, but would you put a .500 coach in our Hall of Fame simply because he’s been the best of a crappy cadre of coaches over the last 40 years ?
OT: Gavin Wimsatt acclimating well to Kentucky Football
- Thread starter rutgersal
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No - it’s not the same thing at all. Making the hall of fame is about achieving greatness. Your arguing that the greatness would be about the stats he collected and where they would rank all time in our history.
The difference between your hypothetical and mine is yours is dismissing an important variable. We have to just assume the act of earning the starting QB position would be a given for Gavin. The default assumption being that Schiano would continue to stick with a 47% passer who ranks last in FBS in most passing metrics for 2 more years.
I’ll bite. If that happened (and again - it would never have happened because Schiano didn’t want to stick with a QB who couldn’t complete half his passes) and we went 7-6 two more times, Gavin would be far from a Hall of Famer and our fan base would be pissed at Schiano blaming the fact that we haven’t continued to progress on the decision not to replace Gavin. If we went 8-5 and 9-4 - having started for 3 straight years on a program in upward trajectory, then sure, in that unrealistic vaccum of a scenerio he might situationally get admitted.
This is a very good point, but thankfully it’s one that when this blatant, gets sorted out in the pre-season before the guy in question has an opportunity to be the starter for 3+ years to collect a large volume of stats where those arguments can be made.
Even if Gavin won the starting role this year. There’s almost no chance he would’ve retained the role in 2025 with another 47% completion rate season.
I don’t know that Gary Nova was “great” in the way one would think of a hall of famer, but he will get consideration based on his longevity as a RU starter and a good year in 2014. In contrast to Gavin, Nova met a minimum threshold of earning the starting role throughout most of his RU career. Being able to do this is at minimum a weed out hurdle.
Thanks for responding. In that case the only question, it seems to me, is whether you'd put a guy in the Rutgers Hall of Fame for being "pretty good by Rutgers' standards."
He obviously wasn’t on that trajectory because a decision to announce someone else as QB1 was made in spring.
It’s probably not untrue that anyone who turns out to be good enough to earn a starting spot in our program for 3 consecutive years will end up getting consideration (not necessarily admitted) but that didn’t happen with him.
But so what? Laviano’s 2015 team (amidst all the Flood drama) was a few plays away from 6-6. If that Wazzu buzzer beater goes the other way (and that was a road game vs a 9-4 team) maybe we hang on vs Maryland to get to 6-6. Lav completed over 60% of his passes. Was he on the trajectory for HOF too but for those heart breakers? The answer is no - but if we didn’t completely switch systems and he followed with 2-3 more successful seasons, maybe he could’ve been. The point is - you could say that about a lot of guys with 2 seasons of eligibility to go. If the guy doesn’t win the starting role though, those aspirations go out the window.
I think this can be put to bed by accepting Plum’s point that most QBs who start 3 years on RU teams that perform reasonably well (bowl eligible or better) would at least be in the RU Hall of Fame conversation. There’s probably a lot of truth to that (whether we like it or not).
That said - earning the starting role for 3+ consecutive years is a prerequisite to anyone ever being in that situation to begin with. No coach isn’t going to bring in legit spring competition following a season with a 47% completion rate on passes. I don’t care what the team’s record is unless they are a NATTY contender (which could never be reality with Gavin’s numbers). It’d be human instinct for a coach to be dreaming bigger in reflection with so many missed passes. Real competition would be a guarantee.
Yes, the idea that Wimsatt would make the RU Hall of Fame is based on the assumption that no transfer would have beaten him out. That assumption is true only if Wimsatt really is outstanding as compared to other quarterbacks who might transfer here or that the coaching staff is so stubborn that it wouldn't have brought in competition.
Correct . That’s all I have been posting in this thread but @PSAL_Hoops keeps arguing it for whatever reason and won’t acknowledge that if wimstatt had 2 more similar seasons at Rutgers he goes down as a Rutgers great and holds many records
Yeah - that’s exactly my point. Earning the starting role 3 straight times isn’t that easy. Wimsatt didn’t do it. So therefore, he isn’t/wasn’t hall of fame worthy by any standard. Nobody would be after getting beaten out after one year as a starter.
Nope. I’m happy to acknowledge that based on where our program is at today, any QB who earns the starting role at RU for 3 straight years on a reasonably successful team would be in our HOF conversation. But that didn’t happen in this case. You can’t just strip this important piece in your hypothetical. Earning the right to be QB1 each year to get those reps is part of the overall resume / accomplishment.
Being “pretty good” and being “mediocre but not awful” are two different things. In 2022-23 - his potential alone was worth enough to the coaches to not bring in portal competition. His performance wasn’t “good enough” during the season for the staff to forego it in 2023-24 offseason. And he got beat out.
It didn’t happen , you are correct. It was a hypothetical just like you posed a hypothetical.
Wimsatt had a hall of fame caliber season at Rutgers and 2 more of them would have gotten him in our hall of fame . Correct ?
Rutgers fans don’t want to hear this but it’s the truth because many before him stunk so much
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My hypothetical didn’t have a dependency on Wimsatt (or anyone) accomplishing something that it’s already known they failed to do. Gavin lost the QB battle this spring. We know that.
No. One 7-6 season with his stats is not a hall of fame caliber anything as a stand alone. It was not a “banner” individual season for him. A better way of putting it might be to say that last year’s performance wasnt bad enough to have prevented him from possible consideration for our Hall of Fame provided he were to a) go on and earn the starting role for 2 more consecutive years and b) also lead the team to successful seasons.
But so what? A) already didn’t happen. If the 2015 team didn’t have a legendarily bad defense which has nothing to do with QB play, that team would’ve gone at least 6-6 and the exact same argument could’ve been made about Laviano who turned out to be the furthest thing from an All Star.
the response to your direct question is no, of course.
But if you are trying to refer to Schiano, you missed the part where he rescued an absolutely dead program, not once but twice...where so many others have failed miserably (Joe Pas "guy", Bill Walsh's guy, NFL guy, Big 10/OSU guy) ...bringing respect and recognition to the university as a whole...where before we were a complete laughingstock...when kids have better options regarding stadium/amenities/exposure/history at virtually every school we compete against.
GS is a sure fire, first ballot, sell out the event, Rutgers Hall of Famer.
Drop this dopey schtick already.
So any player that plays for 3 years on a winning team is in the hall of fame conversation, no matter how badly they suck? That's a lot of players.
There is a reason why most schools look at considerations like placement on all conference teams and other awards as part of the criteria for HOF more so than just "did they play multiple years for a winning team".
I agree he’ll be in…but I don’t believe he deserves it on what he’s accomplished so far.
How is this team ‘rescued’? 3-6 in conference isn’t a great accomplishment. No notable Big10 upsets.
2-3 good Big East years followed by a downturn when the league’s backfill additions (UConn and Cinci) passed RU and won the league. Then he left.
If he wins 8 games in the Big10 2 years in a row, then he deserves it. But now, he’s a .500 coach who loses more than he wins in the conference. So, to me: not yet deserving. Halls aren’t for average.
Hey , I thought after the bowl win you agreed to be pro-Schiano at least until opening kick off
I never said any kid who plays. That would indeed be a lot of players.
Maybe I’m wrong - but I said it would likely work out that any QB who turned out to be good enough to earn the starting QB role at Rutgers for 3+ years and lead RU to back to back to back successful seasons (even if just as a game manager) would probably be in the conversation for HOF one day. At least at this point in our history. Think about it - how many guys actually fit that description? Wimsatt failed to meet this requirement as he didn’t earn even a second full year as our starting QB. Both Teel and Nova will either get admitted or at least be discussed. Who else has there been who isn’t in our HOF already in this category?
1. No, I agreed to refrain from criticizing for a specified period and I did honor that pledge. I forgot how long it was for, but my keeping it was recognized here.
2. I’m saying here that he’s been average over his career and isn’t Hall worthy yet. That’s not a criticism. Look at his record.
