For our 24 roster , I would draft teel first . He played and won some big games and hope we are playing in some big games again
OT: Gavin Wimsatt acclimating well to Kentucky Football
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
For starters, because when langan was the starting QB in 2019, he threw a pick more than 100% more often than Gavin (nearly 6% of his pass attempts compared with under 3% for GW - double).
For sure. He got us up to 6 in the national rankings. With the hype surrounding our other positions I really do think we would be close to top 10 with a proven QB like that.
But look at the big picture on a guy like Hart. He didn’t get a Covid year, but imagine he did. Over 60% accuracy always. Struggled with picks as a junior but he also threw for over 3,150 yards that season. Fixed the turnover problem the following year and led a bowl team. I think we’d have jumped at a chance to add a guy like that too.
Kentucky knows they have a good runner in Gavin by the way he played QB at Rutgers.Gavin is Rutgers' record holder for rushing yards and TDs in a season.
Gavin also led the B1G QBs in the same
Gavin also had offers from ND, Oregon, Michigan, Michigan St, Nebraska, TCU and other top teams.
He didn't get offers because he was mediocre.
As a dual threat his running is typically better than his passing and his running is quite good.
At Army or Navy he could get 20+ TDs - he just eats yard once over the LOS (defenders often misjudge speed).
Kentucky knows he can run and that's why they talk about the Wild Cat and running packages for him.
UK wants a running QB according to OC.
UK also impressed with long balls (avoided by RU - OL problems on long passing)
"Wimsatt struggled with three-level accuracy last season on tape. Looks like he aims the ball on short passes around the line of scrimmage and misfires on slants. Better at pushing the ball downfield showing some good touch and ball placement on throws up the seam and down the sideline."
Kentucky QB depth is much improved following addition of Gavin Wimsatt
Kentucky's quarterback depth will be much improved in 2024. Rutgers transfer Gavin Wimsatt will be an asset for this offense.www.on3.com
I always said GW is a long ball thrower and thats OK because that's harder than the passes Vedral was good at
Rutgers found out Wimsatt wasn't that accuratof a passer but occasionly could throw a good bomb.
When it came to the passing game, Gavin's best move was on ground.
It could be said Wimsatt did help Monangai and the RU D make RU a bowl team, but that was his feet helping not his arm .
What kept him a starter was a combination of the coaching staff's hope he would begin showing the talent he was suppopsed to have when he committed ( flashing occasionaly ) and the lack of a QB on the roster that the staff felt could do better.
Kentucky doesn't have to rely on Gavin being a quality starter, they have one they feel is better.
Wimsatt will be a specility player that the Wildcats will used in short yardage situations based on his running ability but posing a passing threat so the oppisition can't just stack the deck against the run
Wimsatt is being looked at as a back-up now, at Rutgers he was looked on as starting material until Rutgers brought in someone they felt made the passing game better than Gavin had shown as the #1
I'd take the veteran Teel or Hart in a heartbeat - just let both run across the line of scrimmage this time when containment breaks down.
I did say in this thread that Langan was the absolute worst. Worse even than GW, almost an impossible feat. Fact remains, it requires mucho mind twisting and redefining necessary QB talents to claim GW was anything but terrible.
Cmon man ….hypotheticals and drafting quarterbacks. I get the passion , I really do. But this is debates for another time.
They like starter a lot but he only has like 24 actual plays in a game.
It will be interesting to see what happens because they do want to run GW.
Last year the RU game announcers were often puzzled why GW wasn't being run more.
Looks like he might get a chance this year
I could never understand why we only ran GW up the middle. All he could really do was run but was relegated to up the middle. Would have loved to see him run to the outside as well.
It’s the extremes on both ends with Gavin that are just ridiculous to me.
Gavin IS one of the weaker (least all around ability at the position) QBs to start for any Schiano team. It’s all good for you to rank him among the most accomplished RU QBs in our history and use that as your criteria to call him a RU All Star. But by no definition is he currently an “All Star talent” or a future Heisman candidate - certainly not on a national level and not even relative to Schiano’s other QBs at Rutgers.
On the other end of the spectrum - the talk on the other side that Gavin is the worse QB to even play the sport is just as dumb. Avoiding sacks and successfully throwing the ball away when pressured aren’t “nothing”. Not anyone could just step in and do that. He had a few bad turnovers but overall did a good job of keeping the ball out of harms way. And his handful of explosive rushes were an added bonus.
I agree with that. And do you agree if Gavin had 2 more successful seasons at rutgers he is probably in our hall of fame ?
If Rutgers has two successful seasons and he continued to rank dead last or near it, that's still a definite no. Just because he touches the rock on most plays doesnt mean the weakest link should be lauded.
2 years is a long time. I prefaced that up front. Gary Nova was a much better player in 2014 than he was earlier in his career. It’s not impossible that this could happen for Gavin. If he ever figures out the short game he would no doubt become a much more valuable player.
Back to your question. The thing is - I’m not sure 2 more 7-6 seasons would meet the definition of successful given where expectations sit regarding all our other units (fair or not). But I think winning more than that, even with a softer overall schedule, would be a long shot with a 47% QB who doesn’t throw for 200+ yards once all season (even with 2 games of explosive QB running factored in). I guess what I’m saying is realistically Gavin would likely have to show improvement like Nova did for the scenerio your painting to be possible.
That wasn’t what I posted, you are making too much out of it. I am just asking a simple question: if Gavin stayed and had similar seasons in 24 and 25 that he did in 23, do you agree he gets into our hall of fame ?
When you say “similar” do you mean the team outcome is similar or he produces similar individual stats? If the latter, your likely presenting a hypothetical that Schiano would never allow. He decided those numbers weren’t good enough - brought in someone to compete and announced a replacement starter in spring. Let’s say Gavin stayed as the back up and AK suffered a season ending injury. Gavin starts all of 24. If he were to put up similar numbers to last year again, we would not be rolling with him in 25. He’s not the worst QB in the world, but the staff seem to have higher aspirations from the passing game. So no, I can’t imagine he’d get in the Hall of Fame. Who would nominate him?
You did. And Schiano didn’t recruit Langan as a QB - he converted him to a TE. The point I was making is that Gavin was easily the worst starter Greg ever developed at RU outside of Corbin (who he replaced in year 2). Rutgers still managed to win 7 games with Gavin with one of the hardest schedules in the country. And then Greg prioritized replacing him (absent substantial off season development as we saw) because he has higher aspirations. Thats the big picture here.
Poor QB play has become your nucleus argument now on why Greg is a terrible coach (with recruiting and every other position group trending up - your running out of arguments to bash him…) The reality though, is this is Schiano’s weakest area and he has pretty much always had better QBs than Gavin (outside of his very first season of 1.0). That’s good news for our future under him. Not bad.
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Almost. Shelby thinks his philosophy severely undermines recruiting and offensive play. He’s a pox on the position and (name your NFL HoF QB) would have been a bust in a Schiano offense.
He’s diesel fuel in a jet engine. Past, present, future. Doesn’t matter when.
Only if he improved his accuracy or RU switched the wishbone.
Gavin was on one winning team at Rutgers , thanks to the running game his legs were part of and a RU D
that did the job.
Wimsatt's passing probably cost more games than it won
In the 3 seasons Gavin was on the roster RU FB went 16-22, hardly something that would make
for a great HOF resume
Nor this
Career Stats
See All| Stats |
|---|
| 2023 |
| 2022 |
| 2021 |
| CMP | ATT | CMP% | YDS | AVG | TD | INT | LNG | RTG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 131 | 274 | 47.8 | 1,651 | 6.0 | 9 | 8 | 69 | 103.4 |
| 65 | 145 | 44.8 | 757 | 5.2 | 5 | 7 | 55 | 90.4 |
| 2 | 5 | 40.0 | 15 | 3.0 | 0 | 1 | 13 | 25.2 |
This would be a plus,
Rushing
| CAR | YDS | AVG | TD | LNG |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 | 29 | 5.8 | 0 | 20 |
| 40 | 63 | 1.6 | 0 | 48 |
| 122 | 488 | 4.0 | 9 | 80 |
Defensive
but not enough to be considered HOF material as a QB when combined with his passing
Ok - so now your take is that Schiano is an awful coach because he recruits good QBs and then makes them play bad?
Let me make sure I have this right. You acknowledge that Schiano and his staff are doing well with recruiting (how could you not?). You don’t deny that every other position group under 2.0 has been coming along well (again - not much to debate here). And you don’t disagree that Greg has an above average history in sending players from other position groups (outside of OL but Pierce is positioned to change that) to the NBA (namely on defense, RBs, wide outs, etc.) So basically - the issue is just that you think his coaching style makes QBs play worse than they otherwise would. Savage would be the only semblance of tangible evidence you have to support this. Of course - lots of guys simply step up in their senior year. Look at Nova. Do I have this right?
Only if he improved his accuracy or RU switched the wishbone.
Gavin was on one winning team at Rutgers , thanks to the running game his legs were part of and a RU D
that did the job.
Wimsatt's passing probably cost more games than it won
In the 3 seasons Gavin was on the roster RU FB went 16-22, hardly something that would make
for a great HOF resume
Nor this
Career Stats
See All
Stats 2023 2022 2021
CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG 131 274 47.8 1,651 6.0 9 8 69 103.4 65 145 44.8 757 5.2 5 7 55 90.4 2 5 40.0 15 3.0 0 1 13 25.2
This would be a plus,
Rushing
CAR YDS AVG TD LNG 5 29 5.8 0 20 40 63 1.6 0 48 122 488 4.0 9 80
Defensive
but not enough to be considered HOF material as a QB when combined with his passing
Yup. Exactly this. In terms of the TD count metric, I also think it’s unlikely he would get as many opportunities from the one yard line again in another season, and we don’t play any teams like Wagner (Howard is FCS but they have a real defense. NW beat them 23-20. And Akron has a projected top 35ish FBS defense). To get 9 regular season TDs again, he’d likely have to make more bigger rush plays to find the end zone.
No....He has said we're a running game program. The top QBs stay the hell away. He's known as a good defensive coach, and also widely known as a QB killer. Where else was AK going ? Why did Snyder play so well at Buffalo ?
Wimsatt fans.. how about waiting until he gets named to start a game at Kentucky before we lament losing him?
People are now saying the Wimsatt doubters are emotional? We have seen STATS quoted. Unemotional NUMBERS.
Methinks the Wimsatt people protest too much.. they are being emotional.
I want Wimsatt to succeed at Kentucky.. to utilize the physical gifts he has finally. But we had to make this change and, hopefully, we also see Athan succeed and lead us to wins by making the passing game more dependable.
People are now saying the Wimsatt doubters are emotional? We have seen STATS quoted. Unemotional NUMBERS.
Methinks the Wimsatt people protest too much.. they are being emotional.
I want Wimsatt to succeed at Kentucky.. to utilize the physical gifts he has finally. But we had to make this change and, hopefully, we also see Athan succeed and lead us to wins by making the passing game more dependable.
Within the bounds of your definition of "successful" could mean that RU has two more winning seasons, and Gavin is the weakest link the whole time holding us back from even greater heights.
I agree with everything you say, but . . . . I'm not going to lament Wimsatt so long as Kaliakmanis is performing better. The test should be, "what helps our team the most?"
Defenses generally played force inside on us. We were not given a lot of outside leverage.
We could have schemed run some sort of option with KM inside and the option to put GW outside, but teams very rarely gave us that edge.
Who would you prefer??
Lucas
| Passing | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Cmp | Att | Pct | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | TD | Int | Rate |
| 1992 | Rutgers | Big East | QB | 10 | 61 | 105 | 58.1 | 836 | 8.0 | 7.4 | 4 | 3 | 131.8 | |
| 1993 | Rutgers | Big East | QB | 11 | 109 | 188 | 58.0 | 1011 | 5.4 | 4.7 | 7 | 6 | 109.1 | |
| 1994 | Rutgers | Big East | QB | 10 | 156 | 268 | 58.2 | 1869 | 7.0 | 6.5 | 16 | 10 | 129.0 | |
| 1995 | Rutgers | Big East | QB | 11 | 188 | 347 | 54.2 | 2180 | 6.3 | 5.8 | 16 | 11 | 115.8 | |
| Career | Rutgers | 514 | 908 | 56.6 | 5896 | 6.5 | 6.0 | 43 | 30 | 120.2 |
Wimsatt
| Passing | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Cmp | Att | Pct | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | TD | Int | Rate |
| *2021 | Rutgers | Big Ten | FR | QB | 4 | 9 | 21 | 42.9 | 45 | 2.1 | -2.1 | 0 | 2 | 41.8 |
| 2022 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SO | QB | 8 | 65 | 145 | 44.8 | 757 | 5.2 | 3.7 | 5 | 7 | 90.4 |
| *2023 | Rutgers | Big Ten | JR | QB | 13 | 138 | 289 | 47.8 | 1735 | 6.0 | 5.4 | 9 | 8 | 102.9 |
| 2024 | Kentucky | SEC | JR | QB | ||||||||||
| Career | Overall | 212 | 455 | 46.6 | 2537 | 5.6 | 4.5 | 14 | 17 | 96.1 | ||||
| Rutgers | 212 | 455 | 46.6 | 2537 | 5.6 | 4.5 | 14 | 17 | 96.1 | |||||
| Kentucky |
How many QBs have we actually had through our history who started for 3+ years?
He’s not saying that. If he wanted a run only offense he’d have stuck with Wimsatt and basically just committed to run option. He specifically said the thing he wants most from his QB is to be able to execute simple passes in stride.
It’s a simple question, I am asking you .
Yes, If he played here in 24 and 25 and had similar seasons how is he not in our hall of fame ? He would be top 10 in every category and would hold some records . He would also be 3-0 in bowl games , holding the record with teel . How’s he not a Rutgers hall of famer then? That was my original point . If he had 2 more seasons here like his sophomore season, he’s a hall of famer
You’ll see. If you knew what you were watching, which clearly you don’t, you’d know we didn’t run any run option. AK at best is a minimal upgrade.
Anyhow, talk is cheap. Watch the O and see by the playcalling what he’s really about.
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No we didn’t run option. But if we wanted to shift to a pure run system that’s what we would do. Schiano likes safe plays. It’s true he favors shorter throws to speeding receivers in the hope of picking up yards after over long ball 50/60s. He’s risk averse. The trouble was short throws weren’t safe with Gavin. He threw darts that bounced off people and could potentially be picked.
But that would never happen. Schiano obviously wasn’t happy with Gavin’s numbers now. He went into the portal and took a guy who started for another BIG team. Another year of 47% and Wimsatt would for sure be replaced by Surace or another QB from in development (or from the portal). To retain his spot he’d have to improve.
Excuse me, but . . . so what? If your point is that Wimsatt was not terrible, OK. But all the same a change made sense based on his and Kaliakmanis's spring practices and entire body of work. Do you disagree with that? Should we have stayed with Wimsatt because he eventually would probably have made our Hall of Fame.
Again you won’t answer the question. It’s hypothetical just like you drafting teel to start in 24 . I played along and answered your hypothetical . Will you answer mine ?
Yes, the point is wimsatt was pretty good by rutgers standards . But I never said he was good
We needed to upgrade
His convoluted point, I think, is that GW was on a trajectory to be in our Hall and therefore was a perfectly good QB so far by our Rutgers standards and would only get better.
Luckily Schiano finally cut the cord bc he realized GW was holding the team back. AK is only a minor upgrade, but worth a try.
Even if GW duplicated it for 2 more years, I would still say no HOF.
I'm not watering down the Rutgers HOF just because we don't have a history of success.
That's like saying "I know the QB had 3 TDs and 100 INT but that's top 10 at Rutgers so he's a Rutgers HOF candidate."
Regardless of any particular schools history, there needs to be a general competence standard.
I don't care if the #1 QB in school history averaged 1,000 yards, 6TDs and 25INT.
No HOF.
I'm not watering down the Rutgers HOF just because we don't have a history of success.
That's like saying "I know the QB had 3 TDs and 100 INT but that's top 10 at Rutgers so he's a Rutgers HOF candidate."
Regardless of any particular schools history, there needs to be a general competence standard.
I don't care if the #1 QB in school history averaged 1,000 yards, 6TDs and 25INT.
No HOF.
