OT: "half of college grads are working jobs that don't use their degrees"

[yesrutgers01]

Agree. I cringe when kids toss 100-200k at a major they’re not interested in or a major that can’t reliably place a student in a position to start a good career. I would advise taking a year off or using community college as a cheaper alternative to find a course in life rather than go into significant debt in hopes of figuring it out.

Our youngest was a really good track athlete but not a great student. But the track coach up here at Ramapo College really wanted him so he talked us and him into letting him go to Ramapo. I think he lasted a full year but we knew it wasn’t for him. And BTW- all freshman athletes were required to stay in campus housing. We lived 5 mins away.
So, we decide it would be better for him to go to Bergen CC.
We register him and my wife and I are getting ready to pay for the first semester- the lady says, $1500.00
My wife says “oh, it’s ok, I would like to pay in full”
The lady is at first just looking at her until she realized she was serious. Then just started to laugh and told my wife that is in full.

If a kid is just trying to figure it out…do the research into CC and see which is the best for transferring credits. And go that route.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I majored in statistics and work in finance. Is that not using my degree?

Back in high school- 9th grade, my school offered “Stats”
I signed up for it right away thinking how fun it would be to do. Batting averages, era, yards per carry, etc- true story

And my shock that it had nothing to do with sports and was a tough as shit class lol

 

[jtung230]

Back in high school- 9th grade, my school offered “Stats”
I signed up for it right away thinking how fun it would be to do. Batting averages, era, yards per carry, etc- true story

And my shock that it had nothing to do with sports and was a tough as shit class lol

It’s the foundation. Can be applied to all. I still use it when I’m at the casinos. At least I tell myself that.

 

[jtung230]

I know plenty of people who are doing fine that are in different fields than what they majored in college. I'd bet about 1/3 of my companies executive committee members didn't major in business yet they help run one of the 7 largest banks in the US.

Unfortunately, in today’s all-in mentality, that’s less likely. Same for sports. I personally think it’s dumb and feels like we will eventually end up like Germany where they determine your future at an early age.

 

[Morrischiano]

If I got a degree in ceramic engineering and then worked at Pottery Barn does it count as using my degree?

Thanks everyone for being a great crowd! Enjoy the rest of your night!

 

[ruinac]

If I got a degree in ceramic engineering and then worked at Pottery Barn does it count as using my degree?

Thanks everyone for being a great crowd! Enjoy the rest of your night!

Bernie Marcus took his RU Pharmacy degree to work in retail hardware.

 

[Morrischiano]

I seem to recall that accounting may be impacted by AI

I worry that many entry level jobs are going to be eliminated in the next 5 years. Where are new college graduates going to get jobs if even 10% of white collar jobs get eliminated?

For example, I work in wealth management and I have a small team of 4 working for me. The most junior job is a research associate who puts together presentations for existing and prospective clients; using market performance and articles from publications for market commentary. That kid’s job will be eliminated within 2 years by AI.

 

[RUChoppin]

So much to unpack here.

1. Bachelor's degrees should not be job training
2. The massive rise in the cost of a degree has forced the discussion on whether the earnings delta between having and not having a degree is worth it
3. There's another variable outside of a degree based on the success/earnings of your parents (more likely to attend college if your parents did, the correlation between your childhood zip code and future financial stability/success, etc)

But wholly aside from that....

I'm one of those people who is not working in a job that uses my degree.

I got a BA in English from Rutgers College in 2000. Right out of college I traveled and took a variety of temp jobs, including as a substitute teacher. I then took an alternate route path to get my K-8 teaching certificate.... but to teach Math/Algebra, which had nothing to do with my major. After 4 years of that, I left to work as a case manager at an insurance company.... which evolved into a trainer role, then project manager, then data analyst. I left after 16 years and now work in IT at a pharma company.

None of that was "using" my English degree... but also none of that would have happened if I hadn't gotten a degree, either.

The value of my four years at Rutgers was as much about learning how to thrive in an environment that had countless cracks I could have fallen between - how to advocate for myself and position myself for success, how to navigate complex organizational systems, how to engage/work/partner with people of various social/cultural/economic backgrounds, etc.

I became a more complete person at Rutgers, with a much larger tool set than I left high school with, and was much better positioned to find success.... even if it had zero to do with a BA in English. But that degree allowed me to get that teaching job, which later allowed me to get that corporate trainer job, etc. It was an important domino.

My wife was a communications major at a SUNY school and worked as an assistant at Miramax/BMG/Sony for 8 years before saying "F that noise" and going back to get a Master's in Occupational Therapy. That Communications degree did nothing for her professionally... but it allowed her to get into that Master's program. Again, an important domino.

Of course, this was all back when degrees at Rutgers cost <$45K including room and board in the late 90s. Now that wouldn't get me 3 semesters.

 

[rutgersdave]

I worry that many entry level jobs are going to be eliminated in the next 5 years. Where are new college graduates going to get jobs if even 10% of white collar jobs get eliminated?

For example, I work in wealth management and I have a small team of 4 working for me. The most junior job is a research associate who puts together presentations for existing and prospective clients; using market performance and articles from publications for market commentary. That kid’s job will be eliminated within 2 years by AI.

I wondering where I should direct the 5-10 years olds in their career. Two want to be doctors and I think that’s safe. IT is up and down very few professions are safe.

 

[Knight Shift]

Yeah. Freshman year is more or less 13th grade, only with the caveat of paying for it.

For engineering it was more like need boot camp with physics, chemistry, calculus as mandatory

 

[Morrischiano]

I wondering where I should direct the 5-10 years olds in their career. Two want to be doctors and I think that’s safe. IT is up and down very few professions are safe.

I have 3 kids- a 16 yr old son going to delbarton who wants go into finance, a 13 yr old daughter who is a straight A student and excellent athlete and a 12 yr old son with ADHD, who would be failing middle school if we weren’t on top of him hourly. My wife and I think our youngest should not go to college. He will probably be guided to learn a craft (plumbing, contracting, landscaping, etc). Ironically, he’s likely the least likely to be laid off in his life due to technology.

 

[hoquat63]

Started out as an engineering student, changed to Economics as a sophomore. Worked at Rutgers for thirty plus years on the administration side of things, but did teach basic Eco courses at the CC level in Morris and Middlesex counties.
After getting free tuition as RU employee for masters in Education and Busines, I should add.

 

[RUTGERS95]

So much to unpack here.

1. Bachelor's degrees should not be job training
2. The massive rise in the cost of a degree has forced the discussion on whether the earnings delta between having and not having a degree is worth it
3. There's another variable outside of a degree based on the success/earnings of your parents (more likely to attend college if your parents did, the correlation between your childhood zip code and future financial stability/success, etc)

But wholly aside from that....

I'm one of those people who is not working in a job that uses my degree.

I got a BA in English from Rutgers College in 2000. Right out of college I traveled and took a variety of temp jobs, including as a substitute teacher. I then took an alternate route path to get my K-8 teaching certificate.... but to teach Math/Algebra, which had nothing to do with my major. After 4 years of that, I left to work as a case manager at an insurance company.... which evolved into a trainer role, then project manager, then data analyst. I left after 16 years and now work in IT at a pharma company.

None of that was "using" my English degree... but also none of that would have happened if I hadn't gotten a degree, either.

The value of my four years at Rutgers was as much about learning how to thrive in an environment that had countless cracks I could have fallen between - how to advocate for myself and position myself for success, how to navigate complex organizational systems, how to engage/work/partner with people of various social/cultural/economic backgrounds, etc.

I became a more complete person at Rutgers, with a much larger tool set than I left high school with, and was much better positioned to find success.... even if it had zero to do with a BA in English. But that degree allowed me to get that teaching job, which later allowed me to get that corporate trainer job, etc. It was an important domino.

My wife was a communications major at a SUNY school and worked as an assistant at Miramax/BMG/Sony for 8 years before saying "F that noise" and going back to get a Master's in Occupational Therapy. That Communications degree did nothing for her professionally... but it allowed her to get into that Master's program. Again, an important domino.

Of course, this was all back when degrees at Rutgers cost <$45K including room and board in the late 90s. Now that wouldn't get me 3 semesters.

that increase is the explosion in the admin side of things. It's just sureal to see education become a jobs program

I remember when Rutgers was Money Magazine best buy 2yrs in a row!

 

[RUChoppin]

that increase is the explosion in the admin side of things. It's just sureal to see education become a jobs program

I remember when Rutgers was Money Magazine best buy 2yrs in a row!

Not just admin. The amenities at universities have exploded - what did dorms look like in the 90s vs. today? Or the dining halls and other buildings. What did Livingston campus look like in 1996 vs. today? Also, there's been a reduction in state funding.

There's also been higher demand, which has created an arms race to pick up more applicants.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Not just admin. The amenities at universities have exploded - what did dorms look like in the 90s vs. today? Or the dining halls and other buildings. What did Livingston campus look like in 1996 vs. today? Also, there's been a reduction in state funding.

There's also been higher demand, which has created an arms race to pick up more applicants.

agree

would love to see the breakdown over the years. Education shouldn't be out of reach, it's becoming out of reach for too many

 

[retired711]

I have 3 kids- a 16 yr old son going to delbarton who wants go into finance, a 13 yr old daughter who is a straight A student and excellent athlete and a 12 yr old son with ADHD, who would be failing middle school if we weren’t on top of him hourly. My wife and I think our youngest should not go to college. He will probably be guided to learn a craft (plumbing, contracting, landscaping, etc). Ironically, he’s likely the least likely to be laid off in his life due to technology.

Crafts are a good idea. People with ADHD often do best at jobs that don't require sitting at a desk.

 

[rutgersdave]

I have 3 kids- a 16 yr old son going to delbarton who wants go into finance, a 13 yr old daughter who is a straight A student and excellent athlete and a 12 yr old son with ADHD, who would be failing middle school if we weren’t on top of him hourly. My wife and I think our youngest should not go to college. He will probably be guided to learn a craft (plumbing, contracting, landscaping, etc). Ironically, he’s likely the least likely to be laid off in his life due to technology.

That why my siblings and I are making sure that the little ones will have a couple millions in inheritance as a safety net. It’s definitely going to be more difficult in the future. Even if you are more intelligent than 90%, a wrong decision will throw you off a good life.

 

[mdk01]

Not just admin. The amenities at universities have exploded - what did dorms look like in the 90s vs. today? Or the dining halls and other buildings. What did Livingston campus look like in 1996 vs. today? Also, there's been a reduction in state funding.

There's also been higher demand, which has created an arms race to pick up more applicants.

90s? Try the 70s. But the number of administrators has just exploded

 

[RUChoppin]

90s? Try the 70s. But the number of administrators has just exploded

Yes, administration costs have expanded a lot. Amenities have also increased a lot. State funding has gone down. Couple that all with easy availability of student loans, too. Bad recipe for rapidly increasing costs.

 

[jtung230]

That why my siblings and I are making sure that the little ones will have a couple millions in inheritance as a safety net. It’s definitely going to be more difficult in the future. Even if you are more intelligent than 90%, a wrong decision will throw you off a good life.

It doesn’t sound that difficult. I wish I was inheriting couple millions of dollars.

 

[mdk01]

Yes, administration costs have expanded a lot. Amenities have also increased a lot. State funding has gone down. Couple that all with easy availability of student loans, too. Bad recipe for rapidly increasing costs.

Put the colleges at partial risk for loan write-offs and/or forgiveness and that would change.

 

[koleszar]

Again, guilty

Love the honesty.

I graduated with an Environmental Science degree before anyone cared anything about it. I graduated with 25 people, Business majors over 6,000 people stood up. My small business now concretes over the world. My college degree gave me the tools necessary to be successful.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Are there too many college graduates? Students that are just average or below are working in jobs not requiring a college degree. Should there be better communication and allocation of students to majors to the jobs availability?

I was at RU during GS 1.0 and they actively were discouraging comp sci majoring. How does that look now? My mom dropped out of college after 1 semester because they told her there were too many teachers. I can't remember a time without a teacher shortage.

There's too much variability for things like that. People just have to be as prepared as best as possible with a broad based background.

 

[NotInRHouse]

So reports the Wall Street Journal today. Because the item is behind a paywall, let me summarize it:

* This isn't just a problem for new graduates; 45% of those ten years after college are still underemployed.

*Most of the grads who don't find work using their degree are in jobs that require a high school education or less.

* Not surprisingly, the grad's college major matters: the best majors are health sciences, engineering, business (but only if math-intensive, such as accounting), architecture and education. But even for these, approximately a quarter to a third of grads are underemployed. The worst ones are public safety, recreation/wellness, business (marketing, HR, management), humanities/cultural studies, and visual arts. For these, 54% or more are underemployed.

* A choice of early jobs is very important. It is easy to get pigeonholed by today's algorithms, e.g, if a grad takes jobs in the food-service industry, he is likely to be considered only for other jobs in that field.

* It is *very* helpful to have had some kind of internship during college.

* If a grad does get a job that uses his degree, he is going to do fine. He will make 90% more in his twenties than people with only a high school diploma The problem that that many grads don't get jobs that use their degrees.

I think there is a gulf between got a college degree and works at Starbucks versus got a college degree in Economics but then got a masters in social work and became a social worker.

One of my degrees is in Spanish. Now I'm not a Spanish teacher or a translator but that education helped me a ton both in my career and outside. I use it all the time in different ways.

It's what, at least 50% of people with law degrees who are not practicing lawyers. Now if they're at Starbucks they're not using it...but what if they became an investment banker? What if they entered diplomacy or government? There's a million different career paths that Joe Q Public may not associate. My realtor had a masters (not in real estate)...and I don't believe you need a BA or BS to be a realtor, but I'm sure she took things along in that education and does quite well.

A lot of that kind of thing is lost in the shuffle IMO.

 

[CERU00]

My college experience was a bit different. When I majored in Ceramic Engineering, the department was a small family, and we had a lot of excellent opportunities to do research work on really cool technology with professors. There were also a couple of really great professors with some swagger, and they definitely impacted me.

It's nice you are giving back by talking to students. We are involved with an intern program, and I speak each year to a senior seminar class on career opportunities in patent law. My talk is much the same way-winging it off the cuff, and I make it as interactive as possible, asking a lot of questions of the group to see what they want to do after college. Some of them really respond, and fortunately, I've never put anybody to sleep.

Which profs impacted you the most? I learned the most from Shanefield, probably because he came from industry and tailored his curriculum to ensure we learned what we needed to know. I also really enjoyed Haber's classes.

 

[tom1944]

Love the honesty.

I graduated with an Environmental Science degree before anyone cared anything about it. I graduated with 25 people, Business majors over 6,000 people stood up. My small business now concretes over the world. My college degree gave me the tools necessary to be successful.

How did you get into the concrete business?

 

[jtung230]

Love the honesty.

I graduated with an Environmental Science degree before anyone cared anything about it. I graduated with 25 people, Business majors over 6,000 people stood up. My small business now concretes over the world. My college degree gave me the tools necessary to be successful.

I work in real estate. Met the head of development for this one company and he was telling about how the cement pump revolutionized construction in NYC. Interesting conversation about concrete.

 

[koleszar]

How did you get into the concrete business?

Did it during summers as Laborer than Mason from high school through college. Worked for NJ DEP out of College, Christin Todd Whitman becomes Governor, one of her first acts is to cut back on Environmental programs. Low men on the totem pole (yrs. employed) lose out, I'm a part of that. Told by my bosses to keep in touch we want you back.

Need a quick job, go to work as Mason Foreman while I wait. Then wait some more. Working a job for a guy who owns a Union Construction company, he says, you shouldn't be working for him. Go over a business plan with him, (have plenty of money saved) he says, what are you waiting for? The push I needed, took a small business class at Brookdale CC and off we go.

Real kicker, in 2001 under George W. Busch, Christie Todd Whitman became the Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency. As if I didn't already hate this women's guts.

 

[Knight Shift]

Which profs impacted you the most? I learned the most from Shanefield, probably because he came from industry and tailored his curriculum to ensure we learned what we needed to know. I also really enjoyed Haber's classes.

Shanefield was awesome with industry stories. Sigel in fiber optics was similarly great. Worked in the labs for Dr Safari and some great post docs too.

There is a Ceramic Engineering grad I met at a donor event who went to Wall Street and never work d as an engineer. He is one of the founders of the Rutgers Road to Wall Street program. Talk about not using your degree, or maybe an engineering degree is very versatile.

 

[LETSGORU91]

Yeah. Freshman year is more or less 13th grade, only with the caveat of paying for it.

Not in engineering school it isn't.

 

[jtung230]

If I got a degree in ceramic engineering and then worked at Pottery Barn does it count as using my degree?

Thanks everyone for being a great crowd! Enjoy the rest of your night!

Did you have Dr Lehman for any of your classes?

 

[Morrischiano]

Did you have Dr Lehman for any of your classes?

I wasn’t an engineering major. Econ/Poli Sci.

 

[rutgersdave]

It doesn’t sound that difficult. I wish I was inheriting couple millions of dollars.

Well, my one niece went down the wrong path and really didn’t have a major in college like a liberal arts, she’s just an average student. Originally she majored in accounting but it was too difficult for her. I think she didn’t apply herself and did the same in high school. After wandering a few years after graduating college with very little work experience, she went back to community college for a medical technician position and is working now. Her profession pay adequate and may peak at $80k. The rest of her cousins are doing $150k or better. My brother provided her with a safety net of $4 million.

Got to protect the ones that make the wrong decisions in life with the safety net.

 

[Knight Shift]

Did you have Dr Lehman for any of your classes?

I know Dr Lehman. Did not have him for classes, but knew him from the department.

 

[jtung230]

I wasn’t an engineering major. Econ/Poli Sci.

Sorry, reply to the wrong post.

 

[jtung230]

I know Dr Lehman. Did not have him for classes, but knew him from the department.

I worked with his son at Deutsche Bank back in mid 2000s. I saw his at a conference in Jan and he thinks his dad is retiring soon.

 

[ashokan]

Peter Thiel’s $100,000 Offer to Skip College Is More Popular Than Ever​

More Americans are rethinking the value of a college education​

Thiel... was disenchanted with leading colleges and convinced they weren’t best suited for many young people.

His aim, at least in part, was to undermine the popular view that college was necessary for all students, and that top universities should be accorded prestige and veneration.

Since then, public opinion has shifted toward his perspective. More Americans are rethinking the value of a college education. At the same time, America’s elite universities have come under fire for their handling of a surge in antisemitism and for maintaining what critics call a double standard regarding free speech.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/peter-thiels-100-000-offer-to-skip-college-is-more-popular-than-ever-162e281b

 

[rufeelinit]

I guess I always thought that the likelihood that you obtained a job in your field of study was heavily dependent on what you majored in. The STEM degrees along with business would have higher correlations than other liberal arts oriented degrees. I don't think college has done a good job at adapting their programs to ensure that they are producing graduates to meet the needs of society. I also think not all degrees should cost the same to obtain based on the recent trend in earning potential in your field of study.

With AI and other technology advancements, I worry about my kids who have degrees and have established themselves in the workforce but might still be vulnerable to changes in employment needs based on technology developments. There are definitely alternative career paths and more employers are dropping the college degree requirement to be considered for a broader array of positions. Learning a good trade and having or learning a moderate amount of business sense could result in a financially prosperous career.

I think colleges need to either make some significant changes or some are not going to make it. For too long they have been able to raise their tuition without facing the hard questions about the value of their degree. Its not something they really want highlighted.

 

[RUGuitarMan]

All I can say is that I’m glad I graduated RU in 1980. I took my liberal arts BA degree and managed to carve out a 40+ year career in insurance risk analysis. I had good analytical skills, could communicate verbally and in writing and had solid math skills. Today, I would have no chance at landing that type of job.

 

[RUPete]

Our youngest was a really good track athlete but not a great student. But the track coach up here at Ramapo College really wanted him so he talked us and him into letting him go to Ramapo. I think he lasted a full year but we knew it wasn’t for him. And BTW- all freshman athletes were required to stay in campus housing. We lived 5 mins away.
So, we decide it would be better for him to go to Bergen CC.
We register him and my wife and I are getting ready to pay for the first semester- the lady says, $1500.00
My wife says “oh, it’s ok, I would like to pay in full”
The lady is at first just looking at her until she realized she was serious. Then just started to laugh and told my wife that is in full.

If a kid is just trying to figure it out…do the research into CC and see which is the best for transferring credits. And go that route.

Good point. Many county colleges are working in partnership with NJ’s four year colleges now so students don’t get crushed on credit transfers. That wasn’t the case when I was going to college.