If you don't think Jordan could have willed some of those poor Cleveland teams to an NBA final with the weak ass watered down Eastern Conference, then I don't think you were around to see Jordan
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And, have to admit, don't watch much NBA anymore. Seems the game is watered down from the time when Jordan and the other greats played. These articles summarize:
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/05/20-reasons-why-the-nba-was-better-in-the-90s/hard-fouls
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/215099-yesterdays-nba-todays-nba
No, Jordan attracted some talent, but those first Bulls championship teams were Jordan, Pippen and a bunch of nobodies. Jordan attracted some names like Rodman and Harper later on. Why couldn't have LeBron done the same?
Lebron was great but the Boston shot selection was so bad in the 4th quarter. Go Warriors, I think they will beat Cleveland.
People forget MJ has Pippen for all six titles and Rodman for half of them. That's 3 HOF on one team. MJ and Pippen are on the list of the "50 greatest NBA players". Before Pippen, MJ was just stat padding while getting pushed around by quality playoffs teams like Detroit and Boston. LeBron did more with less, but the truth is they aren't the same type of players. MJ was allowed to focus more on scoring. Pippen usually guarded the best opponent outside of the 4 and 5 positions. Pippen was the point forward for the Bulls. LeBron has to do it all for the Cavs. IMO I rated them as co-number 1, but for different reasons. Both have dominated the competition but through different aspects of the game.Because the bulls were the team that had the best chance of winning. Having a sidekick who's also a top 50 all time player was uncommon in those days.
Sure I was. I saw him fail with better players. I guess you get butt hurt when anyone is compared to Jordon.If you don't think Jordan could have willed some of those poor Cleveland teams to an NBA final with the weak ass watered down Eastern Conference, then I don't think you were around to see Jordan
You’re high. Plenty would say Jordan wasn’t better. And have.There is not a single former NBA player from MJ's era that would agree with you.
Players today are bigger, faster, stronger and play far more intelligent defense. They follow scientific nutrition and preparation regiments and the advent of analytics has opened up a whole field of intelligence that players are required to have.
Lebron has had to overcome far greater levels of competition than MJ ever did. Nowadays, "bigs" are some of the best three-point shooters in the league. Though I am sure there are some non-basketball reasons as to why you dislike Lebron.
No, Jordan attracted some talent, but those first Bulls championship teams were Jordan, Pippen and a bunch of nobodies. Jordan attracted some names like Rodman and Harper later on. Why couldn't have LeBron done the same?
Im 57 so you are wrong again. Cartwright was Rookie of the Year and an All Star player before he joined the Bulls. Horace Grant was a All Star too.Jordan made Pippen. He made guys like John Paxton and Bill Cartwright look legit.
Funny to see millenials post who never saw Jordan play.
His management was not as good as Bulls management.No, Jordan attracted some talent, but those first Bulls championship teams were Jordan, Pippen and a bunch of nobodies. Jordan attracted some names like Rodman and Harper later on. Why couldn't have LeBron done the same?
They won 55 games and made they playoffs. The 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers and this year's team would have been in the lottery draft without Lebron. Your comparison between the Bulls of the 90s and Cavaliers is laughable.Anyone who remembers the Bulls without Jordan knows exactly how much he meant to that team. They were a non factor even having made the playoffs. Scottie Pippen pout was the takeaway.
I remember the days when Cartwright formed half of the twin towers (Marvin Webster the other half) for the Knicks. When the Knicks drafted Ewing, it spelled the end for Cartwright. My favorite player on those Knicks' teams was Bernard King. I remember Reggie Theus being the dude who was involved in King's knee injury.Im 57 so you are wrong again. Cartwright was Rookie of the Year and an All Star player before he joined the Bulls. Horace Grant was a All Star too.
Please if the Bulls were so bad how did they win 55 games without him??
MJ packed his bags and went to baseball. How is he better?
Here is where the Jordan crowd who hates Lebron fail miserably. The Chicago Bulls, without Jordon, still won 55 games that season!! There is no way Jordon gets the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers or this team to the Finals. He played on similar teams before Pippen and failed.
Sure I was. I saw him fail with better players. I guess you get butt hurt when anyone is compared to Jordon.
They won 55 games and made they playoffs. The 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers and this year's team would have been in the lottery draft without Lebron. Your comparison between the Bulls of the 90s and Cavaliers is laughable.
I saw LeBron fail with the Dream Team in Miami too. And who the heck is Jordon?
I saw LeBron fail with the Dream Team in Miami too. And who the heck is Jordon?
I guess you guys toss San Antiono Spurs to the side because they are nobodies. With their coach and talent, they would have beat Chicago a few times. There is a reason why they have been the most consistent team in the NBA for the last 20 years.Jordan never would have lost with those Miami teams. A real black mark on Lebron’s career.
:boom::boom::boom:[cheers]When Jordan came in 1984 as the #3 pick, he immediately changed the Bulls' fortunes and got them to the playoffs, but he couldn't do it alone.
In 1987, the Bulls picked up Scottie Pippen (#5) and Horace Grant (#10)... which rounded out the "core three" of that team.
In 1988, they traded for Bill Cartwright, and with Jordan/Pippen/Grant/Cartwright finally made it to the Eastern Conference finals.
In 1989, Phil Jackson arrived as the final major piece, and Jordan played in his first Eastern Conference Game 7 (and lost).
In 1990, with all the core pieces in place along with Jackson, they finally made it over the hump and won three national championships.
Every one of the top 8 scorers on the 1990-91 and 1991-92 champion squads were first round draft picks, with Paxson being the lowest pick at 19. In 1992-93, one non-first-rounder snuck in at #6.
The Bulls front office did a great job with the draft and with trades to build a championship squad with a champion coach. Jordan was a phenom, but he was supported by the organization in a way that James never has been in Cleveland.
When Cleveland finally had a front office that seemed to know what they were doing and two superstars in James/Irving (with a third star in Love).... Dan Gilbert managed to lose the GM who was making things happen, and then traded Irving away for a handful of magic beans. Imagine if the Chicago ownership traded Pippen away after the first championship and got nothing back in return... yeesh.
...
But as I said, two different types of player in two different eras, with two totally different support systems.
I guess you guys toss San Antiono Spurs to the side because they are nobodies. With their coach and talent, they would have beat Chicago a few times. There is a reason why they have been the most consistent team in the NBA for the last 20 years.
You never saw Jordan play.There’s really no point in debating people who don’t even watch today’s NBA. They are stuck in the past and are convinced that everything was better back then. Every generation has these types, those of us living in the present just need to ignore them.
Jordan made Pippen. He made guys like John Paxton and Bill Cartwright look legit.
Funny to see millenials post who never saw Jordan play.
I'm sorry but what two full years off did Jordan have to rest his knees?Jordan had the benefit of two full years off of playing to rest the legs. Give that to Lebron next year and he will play until 45.
School is inLeBron and the Dream Team including Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen (two other soon to be hall of famers along with LeBron) lost 4-1 in the finals.. that is failure
Jordan playing against those great Piston teams at least got to a game 7
I'm not minimizing Detroit. I just put it into perspective. During the 80s the NBA was dominated by the Lakers and the Celtics. Detroit was just a step below. Both those teams were a little older than Detroit. As those teams aged so did Detroit. Detroit was fortunate Boston started the process of breaking up their team. Detroit filled the void and played a Laker team on the downside of the hill. But just as quickly Detroit filled the void their window started to close. One of the most important things you probably don't remember is HC Chuck Daly had one foot out the door after the second chip. Within two seasons after winning a chip, he was in NJ with the Nets where he had more say and control of player personnel. Daly didn't like the fact that Detroit's front office was making moves on players without consulting him. It destroyed the chemistry of the team.So what I got from that is you minimized how good of a Detroit Piston team was. Those teams consisted of Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Mark Aguirre, John Salley and Bill Laimbeer.. three hall of famers, and a near hall of famer in Mark Aguirre and multiple all star in Bill Laimbeer. But they were lucky to win those two championships because they may have been a veteran group.. but San Antonio wasn't a veteran group in 2014?
What team approaches that level in the Eastern Conference while LeBron has been playing?
Going by that metric...Michael 6-0
Lebron 3-5
/end thread
The people who played with him did. And they all say that today’s league is far more athletic and difficult. Who has said this, you ask? One is a guy named STEVE KERR.You never saw Jordan play.There’s really no point in debating people who don’t even watch today’s NBA. They are stuck in the past and are convinced that everything was better back then. Every generation has these types, those of us living in the present just need to ignore them.
Michael 6-0
Lebron 3-5
/end thread