OT: MLB and Cleveland Indians/Guardians, really?

[RUScrew85]

Don’t think Americans pioneered the ending of slavery. Slavery was outlawed by France and Britain (and their colonies) around 1830 (too lazy to look up the exact date). Haiti ended slavery around 1804, via revolt that kicked out the French - although France later coerced Haiti into paying a big sum for reparations to guarantee the French would not come back to retake it.

Ok let's call it The West then. The US Founding Fathers struggled with the slavery in the colonies and were trying to figure a way out of it in the 1770s. It took 100 years. I did include Europeans in my quote - Americans and Europeans were pretty damn close back then ya know.

 

[hoquat63]

Ok let's call it The West then. The US Founding Fathers struggled with the slavery in the colonies and were trying to figure a way out of it in the 1770s. It took 100 years. I did include Europeans in my quote - Americans and Europeans were pretty damn close back then ya know.

OK - I got the impression that your parenthetical mention of Europeans meant Americans of European descent. If you meant Europeans from Europe then you are correct. Also the American ending of slavery cost 600,000+ American lives.
ps:
Some Americans were pioneers in the ending of slavery, both PA and MA did abolish slavery in the 1780’s - so in that sense you are also correct.

 

[Knight Shift]

There may be hope in Gen Z, but that depends if the move by Cleveland is a cancel culture thing, but cancel culture may be a subgenre of the woke culture? It can all be so confusing.

 

[fsg2]

Nothing was canceled here. Just a name change.

 

[RUChoppin]

Some professional team name changes within living memory of board members....

1963 - New York Titans become the Jets
1965 - Houston Colt .45s become the Astros
1953 - Cincinnati Reds become the Redlegs (because of the Red Scare, then back to the Reds in 1959)
1997 - Washington Bullets become Wizards
1999 - Tennessee Oilers become Titans
2006 - Anaheim Mighty Ducks become Ducks
2008 - Tampa Bay Devil Rays become Rays
2013 - New Orleans Hornets become Pelicans
2014 - Charlotte Bobcats become Hornets
2020 - Washington Redskins become Football Team
2021 - Cleveland Indians become Guardians

And plenty more before that. People will get bent out of shape about anything.

 

[RUfinally2008]

There may be hope in Gen Z, but that depends if the move by Cleveland is a cancel culture thing, but cancel culture may be a subgenre of the woke culture? It can all be so confusing.

View embedded media

Lets hope this is true. I believe most intelligent people are worn out by this bull$hit.

 

[RUfinally2008]

Nothing was canceled here. Just a name change.

And it was changed, why exactly?

 

[RUfinally2008]

Some professional team name changes within living memory of board members....

1963 - New York Titans become the Jets
1965 - Houston Colt .45s become the Astros
1953 - Cincinnati Reds become the Redlegs (because of the Red Scare, then back to the Reds in 1959)
1997 - Washington Bullets become Wizards
1999 - Tennessee Oilers become Titans
2006 - Anaheim Mighty Ducks become Ducks
2008 - Tampa Bay Devil Rays become Rays
2013 - New Orleans Hornets become Pelicans
2014 - Charlotte Bobcats become Hornets
2020 - Washington Redskins become Football Team
2021 - Cleveland Indians become Guardians

And plenty more before that. People will get bent out of shape about anything.

Only about the last 2. Do you really want to try and sell that all the other names changes you listed were for the same reason as the last 2 you listed? Cut me a forkin break already.

 

[fsg2]

To piss off old cranks with nothing better to worry about?

Or was that just a hilarious side effect?

 

[RUfinally2008]

Some professional team name changes within living memory of board members....

1963 - New York Titans become the Jets
1965 - Houston Colt .45s become the Astros
1953 - Cincinnati Reds become the Redlegs (because of the Red Scare, then back to the Reds in 1959)
1997 - Washington Bullets become Wizards
1999 - Tennessee Oilers become Titans
2006 - Anaheim Mighty Ducks become Ducks
2008 - Tampa Bay Devil Rays become Rays
2013 - New Orleans Hornets become Pelicans
2014 - Charlotte Bobcats become Hornets
2020 - Washington Redskins become Football Team
2021 - Cleveland Indians become Guardians

And plenty more before that. People will get bent out of shape about anything.

Seems to me, many WILL get bent out of shape about anything, and it starts will name changes and ends with burning down cities and censorship, lol

 

[RUChoppin]

Seems to me, many WILL get bent out of shape about anything, and it starts will name changes and ends with burning down cities and censorship, lol

:world's tiniest violin:

The only constant is change. Gripping desperately to the "way things once were" and clamoring to go back to some half-remembered and romanticized "better" time in the past is just delusion.

 

[Knight Shift]

Some professional team name changes within living memory of board members....

1963 - New York Titans become the Jets
1965 - Houston Colt .45s become the Astros
1953 - Cincinnati Reds become the Redlegs (because of the Red Scare, then back to the Reds in 1959)
1997 - Washington Bullets become Wizards
1999 - Tennessee Oilers become Titans
2006 - Anaheim Mighty Ducks become Ducks
2008 - Tampa Bay Devil Rays become Rays
2013 - New Orleans Hornets become Pelicans
2014 - Charlotte Bobcats become Hornets
2020 - Washington Redskins become Football Team
2021 - Cleveland Indians become Guardians

And plenty more before that. People will get bent out of shape about anything.

Interesting list. Aside for the political "woke/anti-woke" feelings, some fans don't want to see "their" team name changed.
Just some random longshots at humor here-
Maybe time for the Reds to go back to the Redlegs in view of the right's fear of creeping communism?
Washington Wizards should reconsider Bullets in view of the number of bullets flying?
Tennessee Oilers never made sense after move from Houston
Microaggression against Ducks downgrading them from Mighty?
Washington Football Team is an insult to football teams- have not had a winning record since 2016

 

[RUBlackout7]

A bunch of old white guys who don’t live in Ohio still complaining in here. 😂

 

[MADHAT1]

And they should have a huge voice in the change - IF - they actually represent a large part of the population in question and not just a small loud group of folks with an agenda not in line with the majority.

Their agenda is respect and every group deserves to be listened to when it comes to how that group is portrayed to the public by non-members .
It's known as freedom of speech and the right to express your opposition to what you feel degrades you as a person and member of an ethnic group.
Might be the majority of Americans really don't care one way or another about the issue ad won't oppose any solution, name change or not.
But a bunch of loudmouths of an ethnic group , that isn't affected personal by what another ethnic group feels is an insult to them, has decided they don't like changing the name and using there are more of us then them so our wishes must be granted.
They are the same type of people who claimed the N word wasn't insulting because it had been used for years and the majority of people weren't insulted when hearing it said.

Sometimes considering others feelings and POV is the best way to handle matters that concern others than the group you feel kinship with

 

[RUfinally2008]

A bunch of old white guys who don’t live in Ohio still complaining in here. 😂

Sounds pretty racist, lol. That's OK, this White guy gets your point. While I have your attention, how's that increase in crime sitting with you? Oh, didn't know about the increase, turn that dial every once in awhile.

 

[MADHAT1]

You realize they were raping and killing each other and the folks that came before them too, right? Let's not make it out to be anything more than another subjugation in a history of subjugations that has been going on since the beginning of time. Americans (Europeans) were no more evil then the rest of us humans. Less so if you take into account the pioneering of ending slavery.

Yep the USA had a pioneering role in ending slavery.
Hell around 360,000 patriotic Americans fight on the side that helped end it lost their lives in that quest.
We can hijack this name change thread into a slavery issue and even throw in how some Native American Tribes were slave holders themselves, but that only distracts from the fact Native Americans ( like most ethnic groups) feel offended seeing names on sports teams that they feel insults then as a person and a Native American.

Instead of thinking only about how we feel, we should try to look at the POV of the people that are effected personally over seeing a sports team using a handle that they feel is offensive to thir Native American heritage.
Those not members of a Native American Tribe might find it hard to understand why Native Americans feel the Cleveland Baseball team using the Indians is offensive and fought for years trying to get that name changed to something not offensive to them

Shame some refuse to consider any POV except the one their group holds and every other group needs to accept what they feel is right and shut up about it

 

[GORU2014]

Hmmm, another political thread full of vitriol (and worse), still going strong at 5 pages, despite the board policy of not allowing political threads. I'm sure it'll get locked now, though, since I've posted in it, since my posts are obviously so incendiary, especially if I type the magic 5-letter word, lol. Need to make the board safe for the snowflakes, I guess...

Biden? Trump? Obama? Kneel? Tango?

 

[MADHAT1]

Sounds pretty racist, lol. That's OK, this White guy gets your point. While I have your attention, how's that increase in crime sitting with you? Oh, didn't know about the increase, turn that dial every once in awhile.

Wow, the name change increased crime, guess

might be the thing to do , unless

like the Cleveland Baseball team needed to do, is in order

 

[tom1944]

The name doesn’t bother me at all. I learned about the bridge architecture so I liked that.

Bigger question is if NJ got a baseball team what would you name it.

I like Road Runners as a tip to our suburban commuter life. Or possibly something that ties our early history as one of the original colonies and our role in the revolution

 

[MADHAT1]

The name doesn’t bother me at all. I learned about the bridge architecture so I liked that.

Bigger question is if NJ got a baseball team what would you name it.

I like Road Runners as a tip to our suburban commuter life. Or possibly something that ties our early history as one of the original colonies and our role in the revolution

Beep Beep 😁

 

[zebnatto]

Gay jokes? Seriously?

Larry Doby Jr. and I played on the Montclair Apache’s when we were 15 years old.
The Apache’s were an all African American men’s team….except for me

Not my intention to offend, but so what?

 

[fsg2]

The name doesn’t bother me at all. I learned about the bridge architecture so I liked that.

Bigger question is if NJ got a baseball team what would you name it.

I like Road Runners as a tip to our suburban commuter life. Or possibly something that ties our early history as one of the original colonies and our role in the revolution

The Pikers?

 

[RUScrew85]

Their agenda is respect and every group deserves to be listened to when it comes to how that group is portrayed to the public by non-members .
It's known as freedom of speech and the right to express your opposition to what you feel degrades you as a person and member of an ethnic group.
Might be the majority of Americans really don't care one way or another about the issue ad won't oppose any solution, name change or not.
But a bunch of loudmouths of an ethnic group , that isn't affected personal by what another ethnic group feels is an insult to them, has decided they don't like changing the name and using there are more of us then them so our wishes must be granted.
They are the same type of people who claimed the N word wasn't insulting because it had been used for years and the majority of people weren't insulted when hearing it said.

Sometimes considering others feelings and POV is the best way to handle matters that concern others than the group you feel kinship with

No arguments there. I'm just pointing out there are vocal minorities of every population that seek change just for their private motives or destruction of the current traditions with no regard for the population they claim to represent.

 

[RUScrew85]

Yep the USA had a pioneering role in ending slavery.
Hell around 360,000 patriotic Americans fight on the side that helped end it lost their lives in that quest.
We can hijack this name change thread into a slavery issue and even throw in how some Native American Tribes were slave holders themselves, but that only distracts from the fact Native Americans ( like most ethnic groups) feel offended seeing names on sports teams that they feel insults then as a person and a Native American.

Instead of thinking only about how we feel, we should try to look at the POV of the people that are effected personally over seeing a sports team using a handle that they feel is offensive to thir Native American heritage.
Those not members of a Native American Tribe might find it hard to understand why Native Americans feel the Cleveland Baseball team using the Indians is offensive and fought for years trying to get that name changed to something not offensive to them

Shame some refuse to consider any POV except the one their group holds and every other group needs to accept what they feel is right and shut up about it

I don't dispute that either seem my other replay for more clarification. Hell I was against Chief Wahoo before it was cool.

 

[G- RUnit]

When it's time to change...
You got to re-arrange...
Who you are and whacha gonna be....
Sha na na na na na na

 

[ClassOf02]

When it's time to change...
You got to re-arrange...
Who you are and whacha gonna be....
Sha na na na na na na

Lol, nice!

 

[Knight Shift]

 

[RUAldo]

whites don't get upset, they just move on I guess?

I find it hard to believe that Fighting Irish has survived this long and doesn’t get more attention than Native American references, especially with the Irish logo where he’s about to throw down. If there was a team name the “Scalping Indians” people would riot.

 

[RUfinally2008]

I find it hard to believe that Fighting Irish has survived this long and doesn’t get more attention than Native American references, especially with the Irish logo where he’s about to throw down. If there was a team name the “Scalping Indians” people would riot.

Maybe The Fighting Irish are too drunk to care! That came from my wife, and she's Irish/ Russian.

 

[MADHAT1]

I find it hard to believe that Fighting Irish has survived this long and doesn’t get more attention than Native American references, especially with the Irish logo where he’s about to throw down. If there was a team name the “Scalping Indians” people would riot.

The truth is far different than the disrespect some want to claim the name is to those of Irish Heritage.
Fighting Irish is in honor of the 5 mainly Irish Catholic Brigades ( 5 different regiments made up of mainly Irish Americans) that fought for the Union during America's Civil War.
Those Irish Catholic Brigades were in every major battle in the eastern theater of the Civil War and were known for their fierce attacks and the will to fight the enemy while defending positions they held were what they were known for all during the course of the Civil War
So , even though not an imitation Irish fan, I consider their Fighting Irish handle complement to those brave Irish ( many Irish entering the United States were signed up to fight for America soon after they arrived) and Irish-Americans that fought so valiantly for America

As for the Leprechaun , Irish lore has him as a mischievous little fellow, usually depicted as an old man, who hides his gold coins in a pot at the end of the rainbow.
Leprechauns said to be intelligent, cunning and devious, a comical figure who loves practical jokes, a creature neither good nor evil.
So the way Notre Dame depicts its Leprechaun is in no way an insult to the Irish

The Fighting Irish honor the Irish Brigade that fought in the Civil War and the Leprechaun goes with the way Leprechauns have been depicted in the Country some call Eire.
Except the fighting stance, but it has been rumored he'll fight at the drop of a hat if you mess with his pot of gold 😬

 

[REDRICH65]

How about Shivas?

 

[ElmiraExpress]

The truth is far different than the disrespect some want to claim the name is to those of Irish Heritage.
Fighting Irish is in honor of the 5 mainly Irish Catholic Brigades ( 5 different regiments made up of mainly Irish Americans) that fought for the Union during America's Civil War.
Those Irish Catholic Brigades were in every major battle in the eastern theater of the Civil War and were known for their fierce attacks and the will to fight the enemy while defending positions they held were what they were known for all during the course of the Civil War
So , even though not an imitation Irish fan, I consider their Fighting Irish handle complement to those brave Irish ( many Irish entering the United States were signed up to fight for America soon after they arrived) and Irish-Americans that fought so valiantly for America

As for the Leprechaun , Irish lore has him as a mischievous little fellow, usually depicted as an old man, who hides his gold coins in a pot at the end of the rainbow.
Leprechauns said to be intelligent, cunning and devious, a comical figure who loves practical jokes, a creature neither good nor evil.
So the way Notre Dame depicts its Leprechaun is in no way an insult to the Irish

The Fighting Irish honor the Irish Brigade that fought in the Civil War and the Leprechaun goes with the way Leprechauns have been depicted in the Country some call Eire.
Except the fighting stance, but it has been rumored he'll fight at the drop of a hat if you mess with his pot of gold 😬

Cool, my great great grandfather was an Irishman fighting for the north in the Civil War. His daughter married the son of a German immigrant, and no other Irish in the family as far as I know, but always proud to be part-Irish … but hate Norte Dame sports always

 

[sunsetregret]

I find it hard to believe that Fighting Irish has survived this long and doesn’t get more attention than Native American references, especially with the Irish logo where he’s about to throw down. If there was a team name the “Scalping Indians” people would riot.

The Irish love the team more than they love the perceived benefits of any victimhood status they could acheive.

 

[hoquat63]

The truth is far different than the disrespect some want to claim the name is to those of Irish Heritage.
Fighting Irish is in honor of the 5 mainly Irish Catholic Brigades ( 5 different regiments made up of mainly Irish Americans) that fought for the Union during America's Civil War.
Those Irish Catholic Brigades were in every major battle in the eastern theater of the Civil War and were known for their fierce attacks and the will to fight the enemy while defending positions they held were what they were known for all during the course of the Civil War
So , even though not an imitation Irish fan, I consider their Fighting Irish handle complement to those brave Irish ( many Irish entering the United States were signed up to fight for America soon after they arrived) and Irish-Americans that fought so valiantly for America

As for the Leprechaun , Irish lore has him as a mischievous little fellow, usually depicted as an old man, who hides his gold coins in a pot at the end of the rainbow.
Leprechauns said to be intelligent, cunning and devious, a comical figure who loves practical jokes, a creature neither good nor evil.
So the way Notre Dame depicts its Leprechaun is in no way an insult to the Irish

The Fighting Irish honor the Irish Brigade that fought in the Civil War and the Leprechaun goes with the way Leprechauns have been depicted in the Country some call Eire.
Except the fighting stance, but it has been rumored he'll fight at the drop of a hat if you mess with his pot of gold 😬

Indeed Father Corby was civil war chaplain and later president of ND - statue of him on campus is nicknamed Fair Catch Corby due to one hand being raised. If you saw the movie Gettysburg you saw an actor playing him

 

[zappaa]

A bunch of old white guys who don’t live in Ohio still complaining in here. 😂

X-ray vision

 

[RUAldo]

The truth is far different than the disrespect some want to claim the name is to those of Irish Heritage.
Fighting Irish is in honor of the 5 mainly Irish Catholic Brigades ( 5 different regiments made up of mainly Irish Americans) that fought for the Union during America's Civil War.
Those Irish Catholic Brigades were in every major battle in the eastern theater of the Civil War and were known for their fierce attacks and the will to fight the enemy while defending positions they held were what they were known for all during the course of the Civil War
So , even though not an imitation Irish fan, I consider their Fighting Irish handle complement to those brave Irish ( many Irish entering the United States were signed up to fight for America soon after they arrived) and Irish-Americans that fought so valiantly for America

As for the Leprechaun , Irish lore has him as a mischievous little fellow, usually depicted as an old man, who hides his gold coins in a pot at the end of the rainbow.
Leprechauns said to be intelligent, cunning and devious, a comical figure who loves practical jokes, a creature neither good nor evil.
So the way Notre Dame depicts its Leprechaun is in no way an insult to the Irish

The Fighting Irish honor the Irish Brigade that fought in the Civil War and the Leprechaun goes with the way Leprechauns have been depicted in the Country some call Eire.
Except the fighting stance, but it has been rumored he'll fight at the drop of a hat if you mess with his pot of gold 😬

Great explanation except for the fact that NONE of it appears to be accurate, at least according to ND’s official site:

The Fighting Irish

und.com

 

[MADHAT1]

Great explanation except for the fact that NONE of it appears to be accurate, at least according to ND’s official site:

The Fighting Irish

und.com

Well then I have another reason to dislike the imitation Irish and I thank you for the correction with source.
I made the mistake of assuming that Notre Dame was honoring the Union Army's Irish Brigade that was known for it's fighting in that war especially because one of their own left the University to be a chaplain in the Irish Brigade before returning there and becoming President of Notre Dame

Famous throughout the U.S. Catholic world as chaplain for the Irish Brigade, known as the "Fighting Irish," it may be that the nickname followed Father Corby back to Notre Dame, where it stuck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Corby

 

[RUScrew85]

Well then I have another reason to dislike the imitation Irish and I thank you for the correction with source.
I made the mistake of assuming that Notre Dame was honoring the Union Army's Irish Brigade that was known for it's fighting in that war especially because one of their own left the University to be a chaplain in the Irish Brigade before returning there and becoming President of Notre Dame

Famous throughout the U.S. Catholic world as chaplain for the Irish Brigade, known as the "Fighting Irish," it may be that the nickname followed Father Corby back to Notre Dame, where it stuck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Corby

So we can all agree that there's nothing redeeming about ND. ; )