OT: MLB to recognize Negro league stats

[MADHAT1]

This is a hard one to reject because of how unfairly talented black players were kept off MLB rosters because of prejudiced , but rejecting combining statistics is the right thing to do because some Negro League statistics might not be exactly as claimed because of faulty records
But since it has been put in play an * should be added to the Negro League player's statistics and though MLB shows the combined statistics the Negro League ones are the
MLB statistics should be the ones officially recognized

Also, in my opinion, any HOF member that played in the steroid era should have a * next to their name with the explanation that steroids were prevalent in the years that player played.

 

[ashokan]

Jesse Owens owned a Negro League team. There was lot of community attachment that went along with Negro Leagues - which went away after integration. Its not like all the players were suddenly Hank Aaron and Jackie Robinson. Currently MLB is 6% black.

"When the Negro Leagues folded following integration, the Black community lost sports team owners, executives and coaches – and with that, the loss of Black role models in positions of power in sport that were not just players. "

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/spor...dred-year-anniversary-cmd-spt-intl/index.html

In current society, black kids have the worst schools 60 years running. Of course many of their parents are no help because "baby daddy" flew the coop. They also just got millions of illegals dropped in their areas. Most of the "woe racism" white people are phony. They are enablers who help kids become criminals. A week cant go by without vids of black kids ransacking stores and worse. Black crime is a huge problem and its originally from their enablers.


"The term 'enabler' generally describes someone whose behavior allows a loved one to continue self-destructive patterns of behavior."

Black people did not have the current crime and broken families before the 60s. Worrying about baseball stats is how the enablers self-medicate. They also like to use original black civil rights as a fig leaf for their own peccadilloes . CR got hijacked and now segregation is in again.

Universities in the United States are increasingly offering graduation events focused on participants’ identities and segregated by race, ethnicity,...​

More universities holding segregated graduations – Report

Universities in the United States are increasingly offering graduation events focused on participants’ identities and segregated by race, ethnicity,...

www.universityworldnews.com

 

[RUDiddy777]

This is a hard one to reject because of how unfairly talented black players were kept off MLB rosters because of prejudiced , but rejecting combining statistics is the right thing to do because some Negro League statistics might not be exactly as claimed because of faulty records
But since it has been put in play an * should be added to the Negro League player's statistics and though MLB shows the combined statistics the Negro League ones are the
MLB statistics should be the ones officially recognized

Also, in my opinion, any HOF member that played in the steroid era should have a * next to their name with the explanation that steroids were prevalent in the years that player played.

In fairness, the odds of their stats being overstated is the same as the odds of being understated if records are shoddy. But this took 3 years to do, so I’d have to assume the analysis was pretty thorough.

I see your point - but colloquially, no one ever says “MLB records”… we call them baseball records and if we’re using records as a benchmark to compare players, it would be dumb to leave out many of the all time greats due to melanin.

Also, I don’t even think you can truly compare eras in sports. But we do. I mean, how many homers would (dirty) A-Rod or Bonds or (clean) Pujols or Judge hit against 1920’s pitchers, pitchers who had actual jobs in the offseason.

 

[Mr_Twister]

Move over Ty Cobb. Josh Gibson is the all time batting leader

MLB finally integrates Negro Leagues statistics into historical records: Where does Josh Gibson's name land?

This is comparable to a VACATED win for college football teams, which is different than a FORFEIT.

 

[RUDiddy777]

This is comparable to a VACATED win for college football teams, which is different than a FORFEIT.

 

[yesrutgers01]

This is a hard one to reject because of how unfairly talented black players were kept off MLB rosters because of prejudiced , but rejecting combining statistics is the right thing to do because some Negro League statistics might not be exactly as claimed because of faulty records
But since it has been put in play an * should be added to the Negro League player's statistics and though MLB shows the combined statistics the Negro League ones are the
MLB statistics should be the ones officially recognized

Also, in my opinion, any HOF member that played in the steroid era should have a * next to their name with the explanation that steroids were prevalent in the years that player played.

I havent read the details but if they are going to only make this players that played in both leagues- I think I am ok with it.

But very hard to include HOF if a player only played in the Negro league- unfair or not. As explained, they had many barnstormng games.
But if that guy came into MLB with lets say a 162 game average in the NL of .300/20/100 and stayed there or better when they were allowed in- include it.

Players from other countries- not at all. But these are guys that did not play MLB because of our own shitty stupidity

 

[MADHAT1]

In fairness, the odds of their stats being overstated is the same as the odds of being understated if records are shoddy. But this took 3 years to do, so I’d have to assume the analysis was pretty thorough.

I see your point - but colloquially, no one ever says “MLB records”… we call them baseball records and if we’re using records as a benchmark to compare players, it would be dumb to leave out many of the all time greats due to melanin.

Also, I don’t even think you can truly compare eras in sports. But we do. I mean, how many homers would (dirty) A-Rod or Bonds or (clean) Pujols or Judge hit against 1920’s pitchers, pitchers who had actual jobs in the offseason.

You said >“MLB records”… we call them baseball records<
There it is, mark Negro League stats with a * for their statistics ( baseball records)
and those that played in the National and American Leagues as official MLB statistics (records )

As for eras,you are probably right, but I feel the steroid era needs to be addressed for the players who played when taking steroids was part of the game

 

[yesrutgers01]

You said >“MLB records”… we call them baseball records<
There it is, mark Negro League stats with a * for their statistics ( baseball records)
and those that played in the National and American Leagues as official MLB statistics (records )

As for eras,you are probably right, but I feel the steroid era needs to be addressed for the players who played when taking steroids was part of the game

it gets tough- even the modern era vs the early years...the players in 1890- etc were not playing against half as good as barnstorming teams in the NL. And do we remove the years in war? Should a guy playing during a war when some others went to war- count?

 

[RUDiddy777]

You said >“MLB records”… we call them baseball records<
There it is, mark Negro League stats with a * for their statistics ( baseball records)
and those that played in the National and American Leagues as official MLB statistics (records )

As for eras,you are probably right, but I feel the steroid era needs to be addressed for the players who played when taking steroids was part of the game

For sure. I was just thinking, if I’m watching a game and the announcers compare player X who is having a history season for slugging…we should mention Babe Ruth AND Josh Gibson.

 

[BLewis1968]

the two of you are complete idiots and the reason we can't have intelligent discussion here. Worse part is, you are speaking from feelz instead of understanding the leagues, topic at hand, dynamics of the early 1900s as it relates to baseball.

both of you should be embarrassed and I hope you don't breed as we've enough educated derelicts' in the country.

I'll step out, I don't suffer fools well

I assure you I understand Major League Baseball perfectly. I’ve covered it as a profession for a decade and a half and vote for the Hall of Fame. And while I am a grown person so I don’t use words like “feelz” I would hope (presumed) adults can have a conversation without stooping to name calling (such as idiots, fools and derelicts).

 

[MADHAT1]

it gets tough- even the modern era vs the early years...the players in 1890- etc were not playing against half as good as barnstorming teams in the NL. And do we remove the years in war? Should a guy playing during a war when some others went to war- count?

good question, but if we nitpick everything every stat will seem useless.
Babe Ruth hit his 60 in 154 games while Maris played a 162 game schedule and hit 61.
And before 1919 when Ruth hit 29 (154 game schedule) , in the dead ball era Socks Seybold held the record with 16 in 1902 playing a 140 game schedule
Ruth came along at the end of the deadball era and benefited from MLB using what was considered a livelier ball that raised MLB players offensive numbers across the board.

With the making of Negro League statistics equal to MLB statistics throughout the history of the game. maybe the statics should be in separate era categories and no official all time leaders recognized.
Just players statistics officially recognized in the era(s) they played in and what category they were placed in
Even I think that's a bad idea, but it's the best I can come up with when trying to figure out what stats should be counted ( like playing during a war, deadball era, steroid era or in Negro League )

 

[Plum Street]

Have we heard from @zappaa?

 

[rucoe89]

The Cuban Giants (1885-1915) was the first African-American professional ball club. In 1891, some members of the team left to form the New York (or Big) Gorhams. In 1896, the name was changed to the Cuban X-Giants. Frank Grant was considered the greatest African-American player of the 19th century and was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2006.

June 13, 1892​

Cuban Giants 6 Rutgers 1​

at Neilson Field, New Brunswick​

Umpire: S. Maher
Cuban Giants 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 0 - 6
Rutgers 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 - 1

Cuban Giants: (Ben) Boyd, rf; (Frank) Grant, 3b; (Abe) Harrison, ss; C. (Clarence) Williams, cf; (Dan) Penno, lf; (Jack) Frye, 1b; (William) Whyte, p; Geo. (George) Williams, c; (William) Douglas, 2b

Rutgers: Deshler, 3b; Egan, ss; G. Francis, c; Enyard, rf; H. Francis, p; Van Dyck, 2b; Van Orden, lf; Mettler, cf, Remsen, 1b

Source: June 15, 1892 Rutgers Targum
“The attendance was large, showing that when the ‘Varsity is strengthened by outside players, and when the opponents have a good reputation, the college men and the town people appreciate and will patronize a good ball game.”

https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/the-cuban-giants-1885-1915/

Cool history!

 

[Plum Street]

This seems pretty popular among current players .

https://apnews.com/article/negro-leagues-stats-b041665d4792fef40f3b90370d9ae207

 

[Mufasa94]

This seems pretty popular among current players .

Would not think it would be worth the hassle for those that disagree with the decision to make it publicly known.

 

[Plum Street]

Would not think it would be worth the hassle for those that disagree with the decision to make it publicly known.

What do you mean by hassle ?

 

[Mufasa94]

What do you mean by hassle ?

Questions (possibly accusations?) from media.

 

[Rutgers NJ]

Not to say there is a bad reason but why not?
They played the same era, ballparks, same size, maybe less players so not watered down.,,

Is it true that some parks had no fencing where gappers would roll into HR's? I have no problem other than how scoring was done and how accurate rulings on hits vs errors were. It's just a shame this was even a thing where racism ruled the day. God Bless Jackie and his courage and the courage a southern boy like Pee Wee Reese showed putting his arm around Jackie in one of his darkest days on the field of our national pastime.

 

[RUDiddy777]

This seems pretty popular among current players .

https://apnews.com/article/negro-leagues-stats-b041665d4792fef40f3b90370d9ae207

Some pretty great quotes in there, particularly the guys who are taking the opportunity to learn more about players they had never heard of.