Numbers I read you’re post. I was asking yessir if he lived in town. The feedback I received from my friend who lives in town was many in town were/are indifferent and had no idea that the disc course was as popular as it is. He and his neighbors and many in town do not use the facility and that most who do use are from out of town(which lead to the indifference). As you state above (and I posted earlier) the issue is the dereliction of the NJDEP and town administration. This could have been handled better. Now it is just a giant cluster———.
OT: NJ Gov't to shut down #1 Disc Golf course in NJ
- Thread starter yessir321
- Start date
N.J.’s top disc golf course must close, state says. Outraged players scramble to save it.
A petition started to save the Stafford Woods course in South Jersey has garnered over 16,000 signatures.
I know some of ya’ll don’t like them for their Rutgers coverage but nj.com picked up the story
My sister lives in Cherry Hill and good friends live in moorestown. I don’t personally live there no though I’m up that way at least once every other month.
As for the whole NJDEP nonsense. At the end of the day, Green snitched. That’s what happened. And for someone who writes books about what a genius business man he is, he just learned a huge lesson in PR
Signed...and yeah, just what the world needs @jtung230 . More boozers and less people participating in a recreational event while getting some exercise.
I’m in Marlton about 15 minutes away.
I’m not a disc golfer but I won’t be visiting this guys winery after this. He seems to be really full of himself and clearly had no regard for the local community.
I think you’re underestimating the impact here. I’ve seen multiple local/popular businesses (Kibitz Room, Tonewood Brewery) pushing out the petition and once something like this gets going on social media it can take a life of its on.
I am who I am. But if they get along, you can booze and participate in recreational event. Just like adult softball leagues or golf.
I am more convinced that the solution is to get DEP to update the regulation and classify disc golf as a passive activity
The statute does not specifically ban disc golf it bans active activities and DEP defined those by regulation.
It is not difficult to make regulatory changes. In fact it is done all the time
The statute does not specifically ban disc golf it bans active activities and DEP defined those by regulation.
It is not difficult to make regulatory changes. In fact it is done all the time
Disc golf is not a passive activity (from a land POV). It requires maintenance and manipulation of the land to keep the course clear. Not going to fly with DEP (which by the way, normally takes years to update regs).
Barely any maintenance to maintain a disc golf course. I grew up near buzzys creek disc golf course in north jersey and maintenance is removing downed trees and cleaning things up a little. Now if they want to turn the fairways back into a forest that is a different story.
Odd that in a world where kids are glued to screens and sports are too expensive for a lot of kids a sport like disc golf is cheap, very social and is low impact on the environment compared to paving over land for courts or tons of chemicals dumped on real golf courses. It’s the most laid back and environmental friendly and cheapest thing you could do. Checks all the boxes.
If this winery guy gave it a rest would the DEP also give it a rest?
Odd that in a world where kids are glued to screens and sports are too expensive for a lot of kids a sport like disc golf is cheap, very social and is low impact on the environment compared to paving over land for courts or tons of chemicals dumped on real golf courses. It’s the most laid back and environmental friendly and cheapest thing you could do. Checks all the boxes.
If this winery guy gave it a rest would the DEP also give it a rest?
That article provides the first ray of hope in this effort, as per the following from the article (which was written because a good friend of mine I play DG with, locally, works in the sports area of NJ Advance Media and made sure the article was written and published).N.J.’s top disc golf course must close, state says. Outraged players scramble to save it.
A petition started to save the Stafford Woods course in South Jersey has garnered over 16,000 signatures.www.nj.com
I know some of ya’ll don’t like them for their Rutgers coverage but nj.com picked up the story
In response to the “extensive public feedback” the DEP has received since the announcement, the state agency said Tuesday that it is reviewing the use of the property.” “The DEP’s primary concern is ensuring uses of the property in question are consistent with the underlying conservation easement,” a spokesperson for the agency said. “In an effort to be responsive to the extensive public feedback we have received, we will closely review the restoration plan and ongoing uses of the property and will be in further communication with the township.”
That's huge. From what I heard from the course leadership, they're now thinking it's more likely than not that the DEP will give here and allow the course to remain open, presumably by defining DG as a passive use. But we'll keep up the pressure...
Did some reading. This course is also top 100 in the country. Wow. That’s like saying in a week we’re closing down Bethpage. Sorry we know it’s been open for years but those are the rules.
I get the outcry. Disc golf folks are a passionate bunch and I’m sure a lot of national outcry over this in the disc golf community.
I get the outcry. Disc golf folks are a passionate bunch and I’m sure a lot of national outcry over this in the disc golf community.
You're a friggin' idiot and know nothing about disc golf, which requires very little maintenance to keep the course clear. For holes that are in the open in parks (where most DG courses are) the park staff typically mows the grass for park users (not just disc golfers) and for holes that are in the woods, the only maintenance is pruning dead wood and fallen trees from the trails that disc golfers walk on, which is done by volunteer groups for the course and is a service to all users of the property, since there are very few courses that aren't multi-use - most hikers appreciate that the disc golfers keep the paths clear for everyone. And the DEP often responds quickly to variance/enforcement type issues like this one - I know, as I worked there for about a year, while I'm sure you didn't. Weak troll attempt.
I know some people at DEP I am going to ask them if they believe it’s a possibility.
So do walking trails which are absolutely passive activity..
Just try for one day not being an ass
Some top touring pros - the guys who make $50-100K per year in winnings and more than that in endorsements (Paul McBeth, one of the best players in the world, signed a $10MM endorsement contract 2 years ago) - have also gotten behind this effort. The Bethpage analogy that @yessir321 mentioned a few pages ago, is a good one.
Yep.
Also, it’s a top 40 course in the country. Far and away the pride and joy course of NJ disc Golf
Good way to get some intel, but the DEP is normally slow as molasses. At the end of the day, they will do what they are told by the powers that be (i.e., Gov's office).
Probably the funniest post of this entire thread. Bethpage? LOL. Let's all try to keep proper perspective here.
Just imagine, a group of disc golfers able to influence the NJ gov’t enough to actually do the right thing…. The thought alone brings a tear to my eye!
Yeah, a narrow path is the same as large swarths of land for throwing frisbees. LOL!
Bethpage black averages 80,000 rounds of golf played on it per year, Stafford Woods had over 90k LOGGED rounds last year. That’s just people who use one specific app during there round, doesn’t account for even close to the number of total rounds played.
Yea let’s have some perspective here, Stafford woods disc golf course is more played then Bethpage black! That’s why there’s so much uproar over this!
You literally can’t go on any local voorhees social page without seeing this everywhere
Minor correction: was about 30K logged rounds on UDisc at Stafford, but only about 1/3 of rounds get logged, hence the estimates of 90-100K rounds per year there. Doesn't change the point at all.
Dude what is your gain here? Are you simply just looking to be an ass?
The NJ.com article states that after so much public outreach the DEP are now reviewing the use of the property.
In what universe is this not a good thing? No one’s trying to shut down the winery or inconvenience anyone. People just want to play disc golf in an area they have had permission from the township to do for over a decade now. It’s as though you are applauding the fact that the town got caught in an oversight that is now potentially going to negatively impact 10’s of thousands people. Yes life goes on but what’s the positive in this?
Yet this entire thread you’ve been a human dipshit making fun of people who have spent more volunteer hours building something incredible enjoyed by more than just disc golfers at this point just yo be an instigator. Genuinely, you are acting like a complete asshole
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It was 30k unique profiles, over 90k rounds logged on UDisc (people play multiple rounds).
Finley posted those numbers somewhere.
It’s already been compared to betraying Ann Frank so I think that is well past
If you don’t stop the next petition will be for disc golf in Montgomery
Oh I get the impact. I think this guy underestimated the commitment and reach of this group. That’s why I asked where the disc golfers were from. Because my buddy and their neighbors didn’t realize how popular this course is. I saw there are over 90k rounds/year at this site. He is in for a whole lot of pain.
Yeah, I'm still not sure on the numbers. Adam Harris's post said the following, below in italics. I think you're right about these being UDisc numbers, which means ~30K players per year using the course and if one uses the ~20% of players using UDisc factor, that would imply about 150K total players in a year of which 30K used UDisc. I've been trying to get a number of players per year who use the course, from the perspective of assessing local economic impact, and was guesstimating 100K, so 150K isn't crazy far off from that.
Point is there are a ton of players and even if one uses a conservative 100K players per year and 20% of them spend $20 locally (20% is a WAG), that's $500K spent by disc golfers locally and clearly that number could easily be $1MM/year (maybe it's 150K players and maybe 33% spend $20 per visit). Either number is substantial, which is why so many businesses on social media have come out in support of keeping the course open.
For now, the general statistics are that 20% of all players utilize UDisc, two different studies by Ultiworld and UDisc have been done and both confirmed the same numbers.
In 2019 26,225 rounds of golf were played at Stafford, by 8,180 unique players
In 2020 64,860 rounds of golf were played at Stafford, by 19,505 unique players
In 2021 100,370 rounds of golf were played at Stafford, by 35,240 unique players
In 2022 85,250 rounds of golf were played at Stafford, by 35,030 unique players
In 2023 (Jan – July) 55,150 rounds of golf were played at Stafford, by 21,585 unique players, which extends to a yearly estimate of 94,543 rounds played by 37,003 unique players.
As I had mentioned the other day, the social media support for the DG course is close to overwhelming. Just take a spin through a FB post on the Cherry Hill United page (the course is in Voorhees, but Cherry Hill is just across the road from where the course is and there are more CH businesses very close by than Voorhees businesses.
Don't laugh - I have a friend who wants to put a course in there, since there's lots of parkland there...
We survey residents every other year for rec/park activities. "Disc golf" has never come up. We get a ton of requests for additional pathways, turf field, pickleball, and cricket fields. Haven't figured out the turf field yet, but the others have been done or in the works.
Got a very encouraging reply to my emails to the local politicians...
Thank you for contacting our office regarding recent action by the Department of Environmental Protection in relation to the Stafford Woods Disc Golf Course located on Evesham Road in Voorhees. We appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us.
We are deeply concerned with the sudden reversal of the DEP policy relating to the usage of this land, and with the potential impact of its decisions on both the valuable recreational space and surrounding communities. We have reached out directly to the Commissioner to request a formal explanation of the DEP’s actions, and have asked that further consideration be given to the concerns that we share with the constituencies who will be directly affected. We expect his reply in a timely manner.
Thank you again for reaching out to us. We value hearing from you on the issues that matter to you and your family. Please do not hesitate to contact our office again on this or any other issue.
Sincerely,
Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald & Assemblywoman Pamela Lampitt
Thank you for contacting our office regarding recent action by the Department of Environmental Protection in relation to the Stafford Woods Disc Golf Course located on Evesham Road in Voorhees. We appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us.
We are deeply concerned with the sudden reversal of the DEP policy relating to the usage of this land, and with the potential impact of its decisions on both the valuable recreational space and surrounding communities. We have reached out directly to the Commissioner to request a formal explanation of the DEP’s actions, and have asked that further consideration be given to the concerns that we share with the constituencies who will be directly affected. We expect his reply in a timely manner.
Thank you again for reaching out to us. We value hearing from you on the issues that matter to you and your family. Please do not hesitate to contact our office again on this or any other issue.
Sincerely,
Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald & Assemblywoman Pamela Lampitt
It's not about taking in a little swing oil when the round starts (which I fully endorse). It's about sacrificing a recreational activity location (DG course) and leaving a winery in it's wake.
A passive vs active question you might know the answer to:
The baseball field in the park down the street from me is obviously active use and residents can’t go and set up a picnic on it. The tree-covered park setting adjacent to it is obviously passive use and not for baseball games. My question - if the subject parkland of this thread is designated for passive use only, if DEP decides disc golf is passive use would Voorhees be allowed to designate the grounds for disc golf use only and not permit picnicking on it while players are using it? I don’t know all the laws but I believe that passive use land is for everyone’s use and can not be restricted to use by only one group or activity.
People picnic on the grounds often. Normally not in the middle of the fairway but we’ve definitely seen it.
Kinda follows the same logic as you are likely to not set up a picnic in the middle of a busy hiking or bike riding trail (both passive activities)
Also - almost all of the holes are heavily wooded with foot paths, but nowhere to set up a picnic, per se, without being a bit in the way of disc golfers and/or hikers, who also use the paths. There are a few open field holes and there's plenty of space on those to picnic on the grass but out of the fairway, which could be a little dangerous (not deadly, but nobody wants to get hit in the head with a smaller heavier frisbee, which is what we use). No reason both can't coexist at all at Stafford and most courses.
The NJDEP Regs for active and passive use are modeled from the EPA regulations. According to this article, golf is considered an active use based on the article linked below. If golf is considered an active use, I would strongly believe that disk golf is also active.
http://www.citymtb.org/home/underst...y compatible with natural resource protection
http://www.citymtb.org/home/underst...y compatible with natural resource protection
