OT: NY Giants 2021 Season Thread

[ashokan]

That's not how it happened.
Kevin Zeitler chose not to sign the contract the Giants offered and
then he was released.

You mean he refused a pay cut the Giants offered him? Every article says he was cut for cap. Articles before the cut urged the Giants not to cut him. Giants needed to make cut to keep Leonard and KZ got cut.

If he was offered a reduced contract then that would be that same mistake the Giants always make. Reese was often cutting OL $ with some vague idea about getting a cheaper FA or a draftee. Never happened. When all your offensive people under perform (every year) because the OL sucks, then you have to pay people, Solder averages out almost 16 million a year. Everybody knows you cant easily find OL to spackle a broken unit.

In any case, every article I've seen said Zietler was released/cut. I know he wasn't the best G but he was better than wht they have and now the Ravens love him.

Why Giants shouldn’t cut Kevin Zeitler for cap space — and they should extend his contract too

The New York Giants would save $12 million if they cut starting right guard Kevin Zeitler.

www.nj.com

Giants cut OG Zeitler to clear $12M under cap

The New York Giants released guard Kevin Zeitler on Wednesday after two seasons with the team.

www.espn.com

UGH:

“It’s too early to call this the ‘worst’ move, but neglecting the offensive line was easily the most surprising decision of the offseason,” writes beat reporter Dan Duggan of The Athletic. “The Giants dumped their most dependable offensive lineman, Kevin Zeitler, for cap purposes. That left an unproven group that experienced some growing pains last season.

“The Giants made only depth signings in free agency and didn’t select a single lineman in the draft. The franchise is comfortable with the young group that’s in place. That’s a gamble that may pay off. But it would be easier to share that optimism if the Giants had invested in a proven commodity in free agency or drafted a lineman with upside.”

Was cutting Kevin Zeitler the Giants' worst offseason move?

Was the release of veteran offensive lineman Kevin Zeitler the New York Giants’ worst offseason decision?

giantswire.usatoday.com

 

[nutfromSEC117]

Great win today beating the juggernaut Eagles ! Stopping the next Lamar Rodgers Jackson today.

 

[mdk01]

Great win today beating the juggernaut Eagles ! Stopping the next Lamar Rodgers Jackson today.

But they didn't any help from the right side of the OL. Good game from the DBs.

 

[goru1869]

Now if the Devils win tonight, it is a Thanksgiving SWEEP over philly. LET'S GO DEVILS.

 

[NickRU714]

Great win today beating the juggernaut Eagles ! Stopping the next Lamar Rodgers Jackson today.

I was mildly worried Hurts was starting to turn it around and that Philly had lucked into an answer at QB.

Needless to say, those worries have been put to rest. He stinks.
Sure, Raegor should have caught that last pass but I'm definitely not worried about Hurts going forward.

 

[mdh2003]

I was mildly worried Hurts was starting to turn it around and that Philly had lucked into an answer at QB.

Needless to say, those worries have been put to rest. He stinks.
Sure, Raegor should have caught that last pass but I'm definitely not worried about Hurts going forward.

Raegor? Sounds like the 4th Targaryen king.

 

[RUinPinehurst]

The cruelty of being a Giant fan: the ever-present glimmer of hope, that somehow they'll back in to a wildcard. Always just enough to fool yourself into seeing a path to the playoffs. We're a sorry lot. It's self-inflicted. Still, we win next game, and there's a chance....

 

[koleszar]

The cruelty of being a Giant fan: the ever-present glimmer of hope, that somehow they'll back in to a wildcard. Always just enough to fool yourself into seeing a path to the playoffs. We're a sorry lot. It's self-inflicted. Still, we win next game, and there's a chance....

Sure if the Dolphins score 7 pts. we've definitely got a chance. 14 and the odds decrease dramatically.

 

[NickKnight 1]

The cruelty of being a Giant fan: the ever-present glimmer of hope, that somehow they'll back in to a wildcard. Always just enough to fool yourself into seeing a path to the playoffs. We're a sorry lot. It's self-inflicted. Still, we win next game, and there's a chance....

The Offense system was inplace at practice
for four days. This week we will improve dramatically. There is no doubt about it.

 

[NickRU714]

The Offense system was inplace at practice
for four days. This week we will improve dramatically. There is no doubt about it.

Doubt it.
Jones, Shepard (again) and Toney (again) out.

Jones maybe multiple weeks?

Is Jones "injury-prone"?
It doesn't seem like it for some reason.
It's not like he's having reoccurring or even similar injuries.
Seems more unlucky maybe.

 

[koleszar]

Barkley sucks, targeted by Glennon twice, he puts them right in his hands and he drops them both.

 

[Plum Street]

Barkley sucks, targeted by Glennon twice, he puts them right in his hands and he drops them both.

Probably not going to get that gold jacket

 

[RU-05]

Doubt it.
Jones, Shepard (again) and Toney (again) out.

Jones maybe multiple weeks?

Is Jones "injury-prone"?
It doesn't seem like it for some reason.
It's not like he's having reoccurring or even similar injuries.
Seems more unlucky maybe.

I had a similar debate with a Dolphin fan regarding Tua. He wanted to say he wasn't injury prone because the injuries were of a certain variety(I forget the specifics).

But imo, if a guy is consistently getting injured, I don't care what the injuries are, that guy is injury prone. Jones has been in the league 3 years, and he has missed games in all 3.

Now given Eli literally never missed games maybe I have a warped view but dependability does not appear to be a Jones strength. Despite being a tough guy. Maybe too tough for his own good.

 

[Plum Street]

I had a similar debate with a Dolphin fan regarding Tua. He wanted to say he wasn't injury prone because the injuries were of a certain variety(I forget the specifics).

But imo, if a guy is consistently getting injured, I don't care what the injuries are, that guy is injury prone. Jones has been in the league 3 years, and he has missed games in all 3.

Now given Eli literally never missed games maybe I have a warped view but dependability does not appear to be a Jones strength. Despite being a tough guy. Maybe too tough for his own good.

You can’t compare Eli

 

[RU-05]

Barkley sucks, targeted by Glennon twice, he puts them right in his hands and he drops them both.

And my feeling has been, in order to get the most out of Bark's you need to get him involved in the passing game, get him into space, but if he doesn't catch the ball when it's thrown his way........

 

[RU-05]

You can’t compare Eli

I mean, I did note that Eli has warped my view, but Jones is in his 3rd season in the league and has missed games in all of them. That's the point.

 

[zappaa]

Jones is absolutely fearless, like him or not he has great courage and takes hits where Eli would have turtled up to protect himself.
What a shame it is the majority of NFL teams have back up QB’s who are nothing more than bodies.

 

[mdk01]

What a shame it is the majority of NFL teams have back up QB’s who are nothing more than bodies.

You mean the guy NC State told Russell
Wilson was going to take his starting job the next season?

 

[RU-05]

Jones is absolutely fearless, like him or not he has great courage and takes hits where Eli would have turtled up to protect himself.
What a shame it is the majority of NFL teams have back up QB’s who are nothing more than bodies.

Fearless to a fault.

Need to know when to turtle.

 

[RUinPinehurst]

You mean the guy NC State told Russell
Wilson was going to take his starting job the next season?

Tom O'Brien paid for his sins. "Listen son," he told Wilson, "You’re never going to play in the National Football League. You’re too small. There’s no chance. You got no shot, give it up." So says Wilson, recalling that conversation.

Wilson wanted to play both baseball and football. O'Brien said no. O'Brien recruited Glennon who was waiting for his shot. Since Wilson chose to play baseball, O'Brien planned for Glennon to start and told Glennon so. Then Wilson wanted back in. O'Brien said no. Wilson had already graduated from NCSU. So he was free to transfer, and he did.

 

[NickRU714]

I had a similar debate with a Dolphin fan regarding Tua. He wanted to say he wasn't injury prone because the injuries were of a certain variety(I forget the specifics).

But imo, if a guy is consistently getting injured, I don't care what the injuries are, that guy is injury prone. Jones has been in the league 3 years, and he has missed games in all 3.

Now given Eli literally never missed games maybe I have a warped view but dependability does not appear to be a Jones strength. Despite being a tough guy. Maybe too tough for his own good.

All great points.

I said before this year the Giants needed to sign a real backup QB to challenge Jones and potentially step in of Jones is ineffective.

Hadn't really considered in case of Jones injury.
Although they have virtually no cap space, need a real QB to challenge Jones next year and be ready to step in for injury.

 

[NickRU714]

For example - Philly got Gardner Minshew for a 6th round pick.

Today: 20/25 242y 2TD 0int
33pts scored

 

[zappaa]

All great points.

I said before this year the Giants needed to sign a real backup QB to challenge Jones and potentially step in of Jones is ineffective.

Hadn't really considered in case of Jones injury.
Although they have virtually no cap space, need a real QB to challenge Jones next year and be ready to step in for injury.

If I were Judge, before the season started I would have gone to the GM and told him if Jones goes down we can’t win with our back up.
Once again like him or not, Jones has no fear and will get hurt playing the the game the way he does.
IMO we win today with normal Jones game

 

[RUInsanity]

Jones is absolutely fearless, like him or not he has great courage and takes hits where Eli would have turtled up to protect himself.
What a shame it is the majority of NFL teams have back up QB’s who are nothing more than bodies.

Young Eli took hits in the pocket. Old Eli turtled up.

 

[ashokan]

For example - Philly got for a 6th round pick.Gardner Minshew

Today: 20/25 242y 2TD 0int
33pts scored

I don't know how Minshew isn't a starter on some team
I'd take him over both NY guys

​

 

[koleszar]

Young Eli took hits in the pocket. Old Eli turtled up.

Old Eli lost all human motor function when he got hit.

 

[ashokan]

Old Eli lost all human motor function when he got hit.

I often wondered if Eli's rag-doll look was intentional
I always hear people say to "relax" when getting hit and Eli looked like a master of it lol.

 

[Plum Street]

In Eli’s first nfl game at Philly , he got completely destroyed on one hit . I was surprised he got up .

 

[ashokan]

In Eli’s first nfl game at Philly , he got completely destroyed on one hit . I was surprised he got up .

Lots of times he also fumbles.
He's like one of those chameleons that releases its tail
If he drops the ball, guys getting ready to pile on to him get distracted for the ball lol

 

[mdk01]

So Eli sucks too.

Who's next? Brady?

 

[RU at the shore]

Sure if the Dolphins score 7 pts. we've definitely got a chance. 14 and the odds decrease dramatically.

Tell me your call for next week 💰💰

 

[RU-05]

I often wondered if Eli's rag-doll look was intentional
I always hear people say to "relax" when getting hit and Eli looked like a master of it lol.

I think it was.

Similarly, I always point to Plaxico as a guy who would catch the ball in traffic and immediately go to the ground.

In a league of attrition, it's smart football.

 

[RU-05]

Young Eli took hits in the pocket. Old Eli turtled up.

I think Eli always crumbled.

The offensive line was just so bad the last 1/3 of his career that it looked like he had changed his approach.

 

[NickRU714]

Salary Cap for next year confirmed at $208 (the number that's been basically known for months now).

Giant's currently projected to have 3.54m.
With 2 very high 1st round picks, going to need more cap space for draft picks than usual.
Extreme cuts are going to be needed.

I've seen people speculate about trading Barkley (saves 7m and 0 dead cap).
There aren't a lot of real obvious cuts. Most of big contracts were signed last offseason (Williams, Golladay, Jackson) and then restructured even further. Going all-in on 2021 pushed a lot of money into 2022.

For example - cutting Shepard saves 4.5m but leaves a 7.99m dead cap still. Cutting Bradbury saves 12 and leaves only 9.7m in dead cap.

We could restructure contracts again for Leonard Williams, Kenny Golladay or Adoree Jackson but that's just pushing more money out.
Do we really want to put these players on the cap for even longer?

New GM(???) will certainly have their work cut out for them this offseason

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/202...have-just-3-54-million-2022-salary-cap-space/

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-giants/
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

 

[mdk01]

Salary Cap for next year confirmed at $208 (the number that's been basically known for months now).

Giant's currently projected to have 3.54m.
With 2 very high 1st round picks, going to need more cap space for draft picks than usual.
Extreme cuts are going to be needed.

I've seen people speculate about trading Barkley (saves 7m and 0 dead cap).
There aren't a lot of real obvious cuts. Most of big contracts were signed last offseason (Williams, Golladay, Jackson) and then restructured even further. Going all-in on 2021 pushed a lot of money into 2022.

For example - cutting Shepard saves 4.5m but leaves a 7.99m dead cap still. Cutting Bradbury saves 12 and leaves only 9.7m in dead cap.

We could restructure contracts again for Leonard Williams, Kenny Golladay or Adoree Jackson but that's just pushing more money out.
Do we really want to put these players on the cap for even longer?

New GM(???) will certainly have their work cut out for them this offseason

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/202...have-just-3-54-million-2022-salary-cap-space/

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-giants/
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Well they can start with creating an additional 2.2 mil of cap space by cutting Will Hernandez

 

[RUInsanity]

Well they can start with creating an additional 2.2 mil of cap space by cutting Will Hernandez

Consider it done...........Hernandez is not under contract for next year.

 

[RUfinally2008]

So Eli sucks too.

Who's next? Brady?

Can the next Giants QB suck to the tune of 2 Super Bowl MVP's?

 

[RU-05]

All great points.

I said before this year the Giants needed to sign a real backup QB to challenge Jones and potentially step in of Jones is ineffective.

Hadn't really considered in case of Jones injury.
Although they have virtually no cap space, need a real QB to challenge Jones next year and be ready to step in for injury.

I'm surprised you have Jones penciled in as the starter next year.

I've been a Jones supporter and was very much of the mindset of giving him another year, but the injuries is a near final straw for me.

If the new GM really likes a QB with one of those top picks, I think they draft a QB and Jones will then be a placeholder/backup.

Though in general the idea of having a QB on the roster who will challenge the young QB? Outside of motivation, I'm not a proponent. At this point do I want a mediocre journeyman QB winning some games to close out the year? No, I'd rather lose and have the higher picks.

 

[ashokan]

I think Eli always crumbled.

The offensive line was just so bad the last 1/3 of his career that it looked like he had changed his approach.

Eli was a medium to long ball thrower
The OL scrapped that
Eli's short passes could be really bad
He would throw a screen pass to a guy standing by himself and miss him by 6 feet

Those passes upfield to Manningham, Tyree, Plaxico, Cruz, Nicks - those are where Eli buttered his bread.

While everyone remembers the 2007 Super Season, people forget what Eli and Plaxico did to David Harris in Green Bay Playoff game. Plax has 11 catches for 153 yards (almost 14 yds per) with Davis Harris draped all over. him

Eli did suck his last years but he sucked his first years too and I couldn't tell the difference, I blame Giants for Eli demise more than Eli age. Look at Brady and Roethlisberger - Eli wasn't in worse shape than them. He just couldn't do the dink/dunk passes. His best pass in last years was a slant to Beckham and Giants ran those to death

 

[NickKnight 1]

Can the next Giants QB suck to the tune of 2 Super Bowl MVP's?

He was great in both those games beating one of the best QBs that ever played. He kept the Patriots from having a perfect year. and it was not because the Giants had great teams, every team the Giants played in the playoffs that year he beat. Let's face it the Giants won those Super bowls because their QB outplayed the other guy. Tom Brady had many many accomplishments playing football. Beating
Manning in a Super bowl is not one of them.
Yes Eli was the MVP ......... Twice.