OT: Problems in UCLA Locker Room

[RUChoppin]

Not arguing just a question for clarification.

So an open 3, a kick out, long rebound, logo 3, defended not defended. Nothing of that matters?
They normalize it all under the umbrella of number taken regardless of the defense played?

I think the idea is you want to force difficult shots.... because guys will usually pass rather than attempt 25+ foot threes. Most threes also aren't desperation threes where a bad shot is better than a shot clock violation.

Conceptually, if you allow 7 of 8 from deep, but they were all "bad shots" (logo, desperation, off balance while falling, etc).... That isn't bad 3P defense, even though the 3P% is sky high. Same as if you allow 30 wide open threes from 42% range shooters, and they just had the yips that night and only hit 8 of them.... that isn't good 3P defense, even though the 3P% is low.

At least, that's the theory

 

[fluoxetine]

Sorry I am asking more about KenPom and do they look at like that? I can’t see just saying shot attempts as a valid way to calculate defense

“3-point defense” should not be defined by opponents’ 3P% | The kenpom.com blog

 

[fluoxetine]

I think the idea is you want to force difficult shots.... because guys will usually pass rather than attempt 25+ foot threes. Most threes also aren't desperation threes where a bad shot is better than a shot clock violation.

Conceptually, if you allow 7 of 8 from deep, but they were all "bad shots" (logo, desperation, off balance while falling, etc).... That isn't bad 3P defense, even though the 3P% is sky high. Same as if you allow 30 wide open threes from 42% range shooters, and they just had the yips that night and only hit 8 of them.... that isn't good 3P defense, even though the 3P% is low.

At least, that's the theory

As always the theory is an oversimplification.

I don’t think anyone would seriously argue the defense has ZERO influence on the 3p%.

It’s just that it is much closer to the truth than the prevailing view (game to game 3p% variance is highly dependent on the defense)

 

[RUDivision]

“3-point defense” should not be defined by opponents’ 3P% | The kenpom.com blog

So perimeter defense is much better measured by how many attempts are taken by the opponent rather than what percentage of them are made.

This is your definition! So it only cares how many were taken regardless of the type of shot it was?

So team takes and makes 10 uncontested vs 10 contested. They don’t care it’s only the number taken!

 

[fluoxetine]

So perimeter defense is much better measured by how many attempts are taken by the opponent rather than what percentage of them are made.

This is your definition! So it only cares how many were taken regardless of the type of shot it was?

So team takes and makes 10 uncontested vs 10 contested. They don’t care it’s only the number taken!

I take it you didn’t read the link?

(What kind of defense do you think can be played that forces the opponent to jack up a lot of tightly contested threes? Hint: it doesn’t exist)

 

[RUDivision]

I take it you didn’t read the link?

(What kind of defense do you think can be played that forces the opponent to jack up a lot of tightly contested threes? Hint: it doesn’t exist)

I understand completely! But

I could have a team that contests 10 and doesn’t contest 10 in a game. One could argue the percentage made/Miss would be different.

That’s all I am trying to understand

 

[fluoxetine]

I understand completely! But

I could have a team that contests 10 and doesn’t contest 10 in a game. One could argue the percentage made/Miss would be different.

That’s all I am trying to understand

If you contest the 10 the likely result is that the opponent will decline to attempt them. I suppose you could in theory run into opponents where this isn’t true and they will jack up the same number no matter what. But that’s not generally what happens and we’re talking about averages here.

 

[RUDivision]

If you contest the 10 the likely result is that the opponent will decline to attempt them. I suppose you could in theory run into opponents where this isn’t true and they will jack up the same number no matter what. But that’s not generally what happens and we’re talking about averages here.

So I know you watch the games. You don’t see RU defending and contesting 3’s and they are still shot. I know you see us not rotate and the shot is taken with no one on the shooters side of the court.

There may be a difference in those two attempts? Once not arguing w you just the definition.

 

[fluoxetine]

There may be a difference in those two attempts?

Yes but probably not by nearly as much as you think.

 

[RUChoppin]

If you contest the 10 the likely result is that the opponent will decline to attempt them. I suppose you could in theory run into opponents where this isn’t true and they will jack up the same number no matter what. But that’s not generally what happens and we’re talking about averages here.

Yes, usually players who continually huck up ill advised shots don't stay in the game long.

 

[ancienthooper]

Very valid and so were clear. I was done with Pike when he lost the Houston game in the NCAA. Good man , great defensive mind, ZERO offensive mind.(9 years and hadn’t hired anyone to help). He has quietly gutted the program over the last 5 years.

He got Ace because his godfather is an assistant coach. He got Dylan because of Ace and his less talented brother got a chance here and play close to home. Lets not forget the $$$$.

I wanted him fired before his extension. Completely understand that he deserved one just not to the length Hobbs gave.

This year further proves it wasn’t talent holding Pike back it was Pike holding Pike back.

He’s done ! Any excuse to letting him stay will have us below where he took over and our reputation gutted.

So you wanted him fired after Houston in 2021 but waited until 2023 to join the board? And since then 90% of your posts are targeted at the coach in thread after thread after thread. Something else is at play here as it’s hard to believe that this tremendous animosity is all because you think he’s a lousy coach.

 

[shields]

UCLA and their players have more to worry about besides basketball. Cronin is worried about his house being close to the fire. And saving personal stuff. That is a problem.

 

[G- RUnit]

Sadly have to believe minds elsewhere.
Still 18 to 22 year olds.
Feel for them.

 

[bac2therac]

Mick Cronin puts ejection, loss to Maryland in perspective as wildfires impact his team, UCLA and Los Angeles

'The basketball stuff's secondary,' Cronin said Friday after the Bruins' fourth loss in five games

www.google.com

 

[RUDivision]

So you wanted him fired after Houston in 2021 but waited until 2023 to join the board? And since then 90% of your posts are targeted at the coach in thread after thread after thread. Something else is at play here as it’s hard to believe that this tremendous animosity is all because you think he’s a lousy coach.

I said I was done with him and also recognized he earned the right to his extension even though it was too long. I did join the boards late but I was busy with young kids sports etc.

I love this school and know we have the ability to be a consistent program in athletics. The difference is I critgue my school the same way I would any other school. Most ppl on this board bleed scarlet red as well BUT are willing to move heaven and earth to provide every excuse they can for our coaches simply because they are here.

Pike had one solid recruiting class that was helped by Covid. That team over performed and was ruined from greater heights by Pike. The Houston game , the ND game, the MINN game costing us a tourney berth. 3 years in a row the inept Pike took glory from those kids and us. Pike said after the ND game that the standard at Rutgers was making the NCAA tournament and anything less in unacceptable.(His words no one asked him to say that he believed that). Well he has not met his own standard since and has become progressively worst every year. He is going to miss the BIG ten tourney let alone NCAA and ppl are saying give him time and will be better next year. (Delusional). Why is Rutgers not great in sports? We all know it’s over right now BUT lets argue to stay on the ship .

Now he has gutted the team , has made us a National laughing stock, and has us set up to win less then 10 game next year.

Our fan base continues to fight to keep him and believe he can turn it around!
my animosity is towards the fans who don’t understand how to build a consistent program and lobby for a man who clearly is not the guy.

 

[fluoxetine]

National laughing stock

Some of you guys have a really inflated sense of how much anyone besides Rutgers fans are thinking about Rutgers. Managing to put together the 85th best team with one really good player and one really high potential player is at most an interesting tidbit but more realistically completely off the radar of anyone who is not already interested in Rutgers sports.

 

[ancienthooper]

I said I was done with him and also recognized he earned the right to his extension even though it was too long. I did join the boards late but I was busy with young kids sports etc.

I love this school and know we have the ability to be a consistent program in athletics. The difference is I critgue my school the same way I would any other school. Most ppl on this board bleed scarlet red as well BUT are willing to move heaven and earth to provide every excuse they can for our coaches simply because they are here.

Pike had one solid recruiting class that was helped by Covid. That team over performed and was ruined from greater heights by Pike. The Houston game , the ND game, the MINN game costing us a tourney berth. 3 years in a row the inept Pike took glory from those kids and us. Pike said after the ND game that the standard at Rutgers was making the NCAA tournament and anything less in unacceptable.(His words no one asked him to say that he believed that). Well he has not met his own standard since and has become progressively worst every year. He is going to miss the BIG ten tourney let alone NCAA and ppl are saying give him time and will be better next year. (Delusional). Why is Rutgers not great in sports? We all know it’s over right now BUT lets argue to stay on the ship .

Now he has gutted the team , has made us a National laughing stock, and has us set up to win less then 10 game next year.

Our fan base continues to fight to keep him and believe he can turn it around!
my animosity is towards the fans who don’t understand how to build a consistent program and lobby for a man who clearly is not the guy.

You joined the board late because the time commitment would detract from youth sports? Nice try. Half the board has young kids and I’m certain their kids aren’t being shortchanged. At least Rutgers fans can take comfort knowing that while we have no idea how to build a consistent program, you do.

 

[wheezer]

UCLA looks as inept as Rutgers on offense.They are losing to Maryland 71 -55 with 3 minutes remaining.

And Maryland waxed Ohio state
Ohio state handled us