OT: Purchasing a new SUV

[Crazed_RU]

Anybody have any thoughts or experience with the Toyota Highlander Hybrid?
Looking to get out of my Audi Q5 TDI Diesel that is wrapped up in the VW/Audi Diesel Gate. Maintenance costs are insanely high. Waiting for word on what they will be paying owners for the 3.0L engine. I am a fan of diesel vehicles and was considering the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited Diesel, but no Jeep and Dodge are accused of manipulating software on diesel vehicles.

Looking for a medium sized SUV (or larger) with better than 25 MPG mileage. Toyota Highlander Hybrid fit the bill.

I have the regular Highlander and you won't get to your desired 25 mph with it. But I felt there was an awfully big markup to get to the hybrid in terms of cost. There is virtually no discounting on that model either as the dealers sell them basically as fast as they get them.

I do like the vehicle a lot though. Looks great and does have Toyota quality.

 

[Crazed_RU]

I would personally look at a used luxury SUV. You can negotiate (4 year old) fully loaded SUV's with original MSPR's in the mid 50's for around $25K+. Go take some for a test drive at least. We have an older, fully loaded Acura MDX (2011) that we love. We're actually looking for a reason to buy a new SUV since we've had ours for 5 1/2 years and my wife likes new cars, but we see no reason to do so. Our car still drives and looks like a new car.

I personally would only do this with Japanese makes. The American brands have crappy long term reliability, and my German experience was awful (VW) for both reliability as well as cost to repair.

 

[Knight Shift]

Rogue is going to have more usable cargo room.

The cx5 is definitely worth the look. It has been getting a lot of good reviews.

I have the CX5 and love it. I would definitely take a look at it. I found it gives you more space then those and much better performance.

What kind of gas mileage do you get with the CX5.
I see they are (or were as of Nov. 2016) introducing a diesel model in the second half of 2017. That should get some killer mileage.
With that said, the EPA is on a witch hunt with diesels, going after Jeep/Chrysler yesterday in the wake of the VW dieselgate scandal. Wonder if other makers are going to abandon their diesel plans or move forward because the next administration's EPA will not be as militant against diesels?

 

[Knight Shift]

I personally would only do this with Japanese makes. The American brands have crappy long term reliability, and my German experience was awful (VW) for both reliability as well as cost to repair.

This. Audi is horribly expensive on scheduled maintenance. Brakes and rotors on front only was $1200 at the dealer. Got it done elsewhere, and it still cost a lot compared to previous vehicles I owned.

 

[Steveriknight]

Unless you have low-T, I would recommend you look at the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara.

 

[RU4Real]

What kind of gas mileage do you get with the CX5.
I see they are (or were as of Nov. 2016) introducing a diesel model in the second half of 2017. That should get some killer mileage.
With that said, the EPA is on a witch hunt with diesels, going after Jeep/Chrysler yesterday in the wake of the VW dieselgate scandal. Wonder if other makers are going to abandon their diesel plans or move forward because the next administration's EPA will not be as militant against diesels?

All fuel economy statements are a lie with the exception of (very strangely) the Audi gas-engined vehicles.

Ford is the worst EPA criminal in the industry. The numbers they cite for their vehicles equipped with "EcoBoost" (aka 'turbocharged') engines are ridiculously false.

 

[RU4Real]

This. Audi is horribly expensive on scheduled maintenance. Brakes and rotors (all 4) was $1400 at the dealer. Got it done elsewhere, and it still cost a lot compared to previous vehicles I owned.

Where was your "elsewhere"? I had the wife's A4 done last year, pads and rotors for all 4 wheels. Audi Freehold quoted me $1260, STS did the same job for about $650. You can't get pads and rotors for less than that, for any car.

Parenthetically, when I took her car to the dealer for some warranty service after STS did the brake job, the service manager noted that "there's a recent brake job, looks like it was done here." So it passed the eyeball test with Audi.

 

[Knight Shift]

All fuel economy statements are a lie with the exception of (very strangely) the Audi gas-engined vehicles.

Ford is the worst EPA criminal in the industry. The numbers they cite for their vehicles equipped with "EcoBoost" (aka 'turbocharged') engines are ridiculously false.

Yeah, and the diesels get knocked down and outperform the numbers cited by the EPA. I don't understand this country's disdain for diesels. They are outstanding engines.

I check the Fuelly website on models I am interested in, but some of those Fuelly numbers don't appear to be so reliable.

 

[kjb32812]

I'm also in the early shopping days for a new SUV. I have a Suburban my kids use to bang around town that is long in the tooth and not really great for highway driving anymore. And given my recent speeding ticket in my current daily driver, I need to get myself a large SUV to force me to drive slow on the highway.

I've formed a bit of a crush-from-afar on the new Mercedes GLS450. Is not much more than a new, well-optioned GMC Yukon XL would be, but would be way more comfortable and would last forever.

I'm going to swing by a local dealership and check it out in person, maybe give it a test drive.

Anyway, you might consider looking at a pre-owned Lexus or Mercedes SUV. They can be pretty decent values after a two year lease and tend to be well taken care of by their owners.

I would personally look at a used luxury SUV. You can negotiate (4 year old) fully loaded SUV's with original MSPR's in the mid 50's for around $25K+. Go take some for a test drive at least. We have an older, fully loaded Acura MDX (2011) that we love. We're actually looking for a reason to buy a new SUV since we've had ours for 5 1/2 years and my wife likes new cars, but we see no reason to do so. Our car still drives and looks like a new car.

I have the regular Highlander and you won't get to your desired 25 mph with it. But I felt there was an awfully big markup to get to the hybrid in terms of cost. There is virtually no discounting on that model either as the dealers sell them basically as fast as they get them.

I do like the vehicle a lot though. Looks great and does have Toyota quality.

I personally would only do this with Japanese makes. The American brands have crappy long term reliability, and my German experience was awful (VW) for both reliability as well as cost to repair.

Do not get a used Mercedes, Audi, VW or BMW.

I'm not a Honda/Acura guy but the reliability is fantastic.

Nissan/Infiniti is almost always going to have the best engine but a step down in reliability.

That brings me to Toyota/Lexus. I have owned VW, BMW, Acura, Nissan over the years and purchased a CPO RX400h for my wife six years ago. To date, we have changed the oil, the tires, the wipers and the brakes. We have also spent $400 to remove pinhead rust dings on the front of the car. As a result of our experience, I flipped to Lexus with my last purchase. I can't get the same thrill as driving an Infiniti/Nissan or BMW but the low cost maintenance and reliability just outweighs everything else.

In regards to Hybrids, you need to do mostly in-town, stop and go driving to reap the benefit. If you do a lot of highway driving it is a waste of money. We get right around 26-27 MPG with our 400h because it is always driven in our suburb and not on the highway. Worth the extra money in our case.

I would suggest a CPO Lexus over a brand new anything else if the price was the same.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

You should buy a Honda Accord or if you must have a SUV then a Porsche Cayenne.

 

[PSU_Nut]

What kind of gas mileage do you get with the CX5.
I see they are (or were as of Nov. 2016) introducing a diesel model in the second half of 2017. That should get some killer mileage.
With that said, the EPA is on a witch hunt with diesels, going after Jeep/Chrysler yesterday in the wake of the VW dieselgate scandal. Wonder if other makers are going to abandon their diesel plans or move forward because the next administration's EPA will not be as militant against diesels?

I would say about 25 town and 35 highway.

 

[e5fdny]

If you want to go cheaper I have a used 2002 GMC Envoy with a dented hood 173,000 miles and power steering which doesn't work under 1000 RPMs. It also need new shock, struts and sway bar links.

Wow. I have an '04 Honda Civic with 168K. Needs some engine mounts and water magically appears in my center console after it rains (can't find the leak!). Thought I was pushing a beater, LOL

I have you both beat...

'97 Outback almost 200K on it. Never any real issues (other then being accused of living an alternate lifestyle by some of you on here and even my own brother! - LOL)

So I have to agree with @AntiG here more so than @Upstream.

Haven't driven the Crosstek before, but I'll say this, Subaru makes great vehicles - great quality, great engines, amongst the industry's best safety ratings for all of their vehicles, and the best damned AWD system in the business. I'll probably be purchasing a Subaru SUV when I start having kids.

I used to have an Impreza WRX which was a beast of a sedan.

Really have to disagree with this. I recently got rid of a Subaru Forrester which I bought based on what I thought was an impressive test drive and what I thought was a reputation for quality. What I ended up with was a car that proved to be unreliable after about 3 years and poorly designed from a driver control perspective. The radio and climate controls were hard to see when driving (and too dim to see in bright sunlight), and difficult to use without taking your eyes off the road.

Subaru built a reputation because all their vehicles were 4WD. But now that most other manufacturers offer 4WD versions of similar vehicles, there isn't really anything advantageous about Subarus.

If you're looking at a Crosstrek, you are looking at a moderate-priced utilitarian crossover. So look at it from that perspective. On the test drive you should look for adequate pep and handling (knowing it is not a performance car). You also want to look for good visibility front, back and sides. Are the controls easy to use and adjust while driving. Is cargo space adequate.

I think you will find that Subaru's fail compared to the alternatives.

 

[Knight Shift]

Where was your "elsewhere"? I had the wife's A4 done last year, pads and rotors for all 4 wheels. Audi Freehold quoted me $1260, STS did the same job for about $650. You can't get pads and rotors for less than that, for any car.

Parenthetically, when I took her car to the dealer for some warranty service after STS did the brake job, the service manager noted that "there's a recent brake job, looks like it was done here." So it passed the eyeball test with Audi.

I had bad information in my first post. Dealer quoted $1200 for front pads/rotors only. I got all 4 done at JA Autowerks in Shrewsbury for $1300. John is a standup guy and a great mechanic. He searched for the cheapest and best options for my brake pads, but since by Q5 was relatively new and a diesel, the pad and rotor options were limited.
The new Eatontown Audi facility is spectacular with a beautiful coffee bar, but they want $1100 to do a 55,000 mile service. JAA will charge $500. Recently, I had to do some troubleshooting and pulled out my cabin air filter, which was supposed to be changed at 45,000 miles, and it was absolutely clogged. I got the impression it was never replaced.

As soon as I get my payout information from the court on January 31 for dieselgate, I am getting rid of this car. Great vehicle to drive, but it will drive me to the poor house in maintenance. I need the extra $$$ to pay for travel costs to Yankee Stadium and boxes of tissues. . . .

 

[SkilletHead2]

I've had my 2005 RAV-4 for 10 years now. It's held up very well. I drive on dirt roads every day (I live 1.5 miles of rough road away from paved roads.), and also on steep, wind-y roads. There's nothing flash about the RAV-4, but it certainly gets the job done.

Looking to replace it and my 2001 Subaru Impreza SRX probably in the next year or so. Both good cars.

 

[RU4Real]

I had bad information in my first post. Dealer quoted $1200 for front pads/rotors only. I got all 4 done at JA Autowerks in Shrewsbury for $1300. John is a standup guy and a great mechanic. He searched for the cheapest and best options for my brake pads, but since by Q5 was relatively new and a diesel, the pad and rotor options were limited.
The new Eatontown Audi facility is spectacular with a beautiful coffee bar, but they want $1100 to do a 55,000 mile service. JAA will charge $500. Recently, I had to do some troubleshooting and pulled out my cabin air filter, which was supposed to be changed at 45,000 miles, and it was absolutely clogged. I got the impression it was never replaced.

As soon as I get my payout information from the court on January 31 for dieselgate, I am getting rid of this car. Great vehicle to drive, but it will drive me to the poor house in maintenance. I need the extra $$$ to pay for travel costs to Yankee Stadium and boxes of tissues. . . .

It's an experience.

My first A4, more than 10 years ago, had its own VIP bay down at Schneider Nelson. The second one, that my wife drives, is now 6 years old, has about 90k on it and the only significant issue we've had was the block replacement that came along with the "Oil Consumption TSB". It failed the consumption test, so they replaced it. My car, now at 20 months and 30k miles, has had the oil changed 4 times and the tires rotated once.

The one thing I stick to, like you, is not having interval service done at the dealership. My belief is that the dealer is for warranty service only, routine maintenance is delegated to my local mechanic.

 

[RU_Planning]

55 posts in and it hasn't been said.

This is America! Buy an American car! Or else face the wrath of twitter!

 

[RU4Real]

55 posts in and it hasn't been said.

This is America! Buy an American car! Or else face the wrath of twitter!

Many of the cars mentioned in this thread are made in the United States.

 

[RU_Planning]

Many of the cars mentioned in this thread are made in the United States.

But it is 2017, facts are irrelevant.

 

[Knight Shift]

But it is 2017, facts are irrelevant.

 

[Knight Shift]

Have to thank the folks who recommended the CX-5. That may be my next car. A couple of bloggers and sites did a head to head comparison with the Audi Q5, and the CX5 compared very favorably. Even though it is a CRV and RAV4 competitor, it has more legroom and cargo room and the Q5. It's a bit less expensive too.

 

[wheezer]

I just got a 2017 pilot and it has Apple car play (has something for android too) + Honda Link. I don't think anyone really needs more than that IMO.

---
I have leased and then purchased Pilots over the past 7 years or so and I am pretty satisfied with the product.... the cargo room more than a grand cherokee, but not so sporty looking as that

the only downside is that most Honda's allow more road noise inside than most

 

[ponyfoot19]

I

The one thing I stick to, like you, is not having interval service done at the dealership. My belief is that the dealer is for warranty service only, routine maintenance is delegated to my local mechanic.

Of all the posts in this thread this is the comment to take to heart.

 

[LC-88]

I second Pinehurst's post. Tacoma crew cab with a cap. My small SUV experience is limited to early body Bronco's (66-76). Wouldn't put my kid in one. My outlaws have a Honda Pilot. They love it. I drove it. Good all around. Can't speak for the maintanence, etc.

 

[Section124]

It's an experience.

My first A4, more than 10 years ago, had its own VIP bay down at Schneider Nelson. The second one, that my wife drives, is now 6 years old, has about 90k on it and the only significant issue we've had was the block replacement that came along with the "Oil Consumption TSB". It failed the consumption test, so they replaced it. My car, now at 20 months and 30k miles, has had the oil changed 4 times and the tires rotated once.

The one thing I stick to, like you, is not having interval service done at the dealership. My belief is that the dealer is for warranty service only, routine maintenance is delegated to my local mechanic.

Does your STS guys get the OEM brake pads when doing the work at STS? I always find that brake pads that are not OEM squeak for VW and Audi's.

 

[RU4Real]

Does your STS guys get the OEM brake pads when doing the work at STS? I always find that brake pads that are not OEM squeak for VW and Audi's.

Honestly, I'm not sure... but they've done half a dozen brake jobs on 5 different VAG vehicles for me, over the years, and nothing has ever squeaked.

 

[RC1978]

Honda's infotainment systems are now solidly a generation behind current state of the art. They get no props for being cheap.

Beg to differ. My 2017 Honda Ridgeline has wonderful system. I use the Android Auto most of the time but that is built in and so is Apple's. Hond Link works very well.

 

[RU4Real]

Beg to differ. My 2017 Honda Ridgeline has wonderful system. I use the Android Auto most of the time but that is built in and so is Apple's. Hond Link works very well.

It's a good update for '17, then. Prior to, they had poor systems and poor graphics.

Parenthetically, I'm not a fan of touch screens. They require you to look at them to effectively operate them.

 

[RU31trap]

You guys are the best, thank you! Just purchased a 2017 Rogue $25,800 out the door. I really liked the Subaru but the Nissan gave me the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[Knight Shift]

You guys are the best, thank you! Just purchased a 2017 Rogue $25,800 out the door. I really liked the Subaru but the Nissan gave me the biggest bang for the buck.

Did you look at the CX5?

 

[mdh2003]

It's a good update for '17, then. Prior to, they had poor systems and poor graphics.

Parenthetically, I'm not a fan of touch screens. They require you to look at them to effectively operate them.

The comand controller "joystick" on my FIL's GLA 250 is the most comfortable and cool car system interface I've ever used.

 

[RU31trap]

Did you look at the CX5?

Yes, they would not budge on the price $27,100 out the door with the same options.

 

[RU31trap]

The comand controller "joystick" on my FIL's GLA 250 is the most comfortable and cool car system interface I've ever used.

The Benz GLA 250 is a beautiful fast car, but it's almost 37K.

 

[ruvsi]

The Benz GLA 250 is a beautiful fast car, but it's almost 37K.

3 Lexus RXs. Best ride, a lot of room and never had a problem.

 

[jay_hq]

If you're considering an SUV for cargo space, you should consider the Honda Accord with s nice roomy trunk.

 

[RU4Real]

I have to say that I am both disappointed and unsurprised by the end result of this exercise.

The consensus of the car people is that the CX-5 is a better vehicle than the Rogue. OP selected the latter for the sake of 1300 bucks.

This tells me that he was going to buy whatever was cheapest, as I suggested in my first post. There really wasn't any input required, from anyone.

 

[Upstream]

I have to say that I am both disappointed and unsurprised by the end result of this exercise.

The consensus of the car people is that the CX-5 is a better vehicle than the Rogue. OP selected the latter for the sake of 1300 bucks.

This tells me that he was going to buy whatever was cheapest, as I suggested in my first post. There really wasn't any input required, from anyone.

Not necessarily. The features that the "car people" in this thread value may not be the same as the features the OP values. Maybe the OP selected the Rogue for reasons other than price. If he was just looking for the cheapest crossover, there are cheaper alternatives.

 

[RU4Real]

Not necessarily. The features that the "car people" in this thread value may not be the same as the features the OP values. Maybe the OP selected the Rogue for reasons other than price. If he was just looking for the cheapest crossover, there are cheaper alternatives.

You guys are the best, thank you! Just purchased a 2017 Rogue $25,800 out the door. I really liked the Subaru but the Nissan gave me the biggest bang for the buck.

Yes, they would not budge on the price $27,100 out the door with the same options.

So... no.

 

[FanuSanu52]

I have to say that I am both disappointed and unsurprised by the end result of this exercise.

The consensus of the car people is that the CX-5 is a better vehicle than the Rogue. OP selected the latter for the sake of 1300 bucks.

This tells me that he was going to buy whatever was cheapest, as I suggested in my first post. There really wasn't any input required, from anyone.

That's why it pays to ignore all of what the OP wants and just talk about the cars you like better. Which is how these threads always go anyway.

I really like the new Kia Stinger. Look into trading in your new Rogue when that goes live, OP.

 

[rutgersal]

This. Audi is horribly expensive on scheduled maintenance. Brakes and rotors on front only was $1200 at the dealer. Got it done elsewhere, and it still cost a lot compared to previous vehicles I owned.

Buy Japanese cars, lease German cars. Works for me.

 

[RU31trap]

Buy Japanese cars, lease German cars. Works for me.

Post of the week. Great point Al.