OT: Scott Rolen Elected to HOF

[colbert17]

Todd Helton misses out by a handful of vote (3%).

Rolen earns Hall election, capping historic ballot climb

The hot corner has historically had a high bar for National Baseball Hall of Fame entry. But in 2023, Scott Rolen made the cut and completed a meteoric rise in support in his time on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot. Rolen was the only one of the 28

www.mlb.com

 

[zappaa]

No comment.
Except their are 10 third baseman in Cooperstown and he shouldn’t be one of them

 

[Rutgers85]

Never thought of him as a hall of famer

 

[T2Kplus20]

Todd Helton misses out by a handful of vote (3%).

Rolen earns Hall election, capping historic ballot climb

The hot corner has historically had a high bar for National Baseball Hall of Fame entry. But in 2023, Scott Rolen made the cut and completed a meteoric rise in support in his time on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot. Rolen was the only one of the 28

www.mlb.com

Garbage selection. Almost as bad as Harold Baines. Rolen would be okay for the Hall of the Very Good.

 

[shields]

Ron Santo is in and Rolen has just as good stats. 8 Gold Gloves. Defense does not count? They had quote that Schmidt said Rolen was better than him on D. I like Chipper but he never won a Gold Glove.

 

[RU at the shore]

Give me a break !

Get Don Mattingly in the hall, pronto

 

[zappaa]

Ron Santo is in and Rolen has just as good stats. 8 Gold Gloves. Defense does not count? They had quote that Schmidt said Rolen was better than him on D. I like Chipper but he never won a Gold Glove.

Santo got in thru the veterans committee, not the same imo

 

[shields]

I get it but when he got in I knew Rolen was getting in. The stats are the same. Santo more homers and Rolen had 8 gold gloves to 5. They talked about War and Rolen was top 7 for third baseman. And defense to me is important. Santo hit .277 to Rolen's 281.

 

[RU-AGK]

Give me a break !

Get Don Mattingly in the hall, pronto

My first thought as well.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No comment.
Except their are 10 third baseman in Cooperstown and he shouldn’t be one of them

I’ll comment. Very good players shouldn’t be in the hall of fame

 

[Doctor Worm]

In 2018, Scott Rolen's first year of HOF eligibility, he got 10% of the vote. How that became 76% in just five years, I do not know. I guess today's analytics make his career look better in retrospect. Still can't figure out how he got in, and Jeff Kent fell off the ballot with < 50%.

 

[Doctor Worm]

In 2018, Scott Rolen's first year of HOF eligibility, he got 10% of the vote. How that became 76% in just five years, I do not know.

I found a pretty good answer to my own question. Five years ago, the competition for HOF votes was much more intense. Most of Rolen's competion back then has either gotten in, or rolled off the ballot.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I guess the MLB HOF is slewing off course just like the R&R HOF.

 

[tico brown]

If Scott Rolen is in the HOF, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Jeff Kent, Albert Belle, others should be in it.

It took Gil Hodges 50 years to get in but Rolen got in a lot sooner.

 

[zappaa]

In 2018, Scott Rolen's first year of HOF eligibility, he got 10% of the vote. How that became 76% in just five years, I do not know. I guess today's analytics make his career look better in retrospect. Still can't figure out how he got in, and Jeff Kent fell off the ballot with < 50%.

This is very possible.
Analytics, the most obvious being OPS….something we didn’t know about or look at in my day.

 

[yesrutgers01]

This is very possible.
Analytics, the most obvious being OPS….something we didn’t know about or look at in my day.

Zap- obviously, you know a hell of a lot more about MLB and 3B than any of us on this board. I actually love OPS as a stat. Goes up there with WHIP for pitchers as the two stats I have liked becoming the norm.

But, when it comes to HOF- do you often go by your eye test. Forget stats, as important as they are, but you watch a player and you just feel it- you don't even have to ask if they are HOF.

Rolen was a very good player and very good fielder. But I just never had him in the same class as a Nettles, Schmidt, B Robinson.

 

[LotusAggressor]

A byproduct of The Steroid Effect.

 

[patk89]

As a Mets fan, I never feared Rolen. Very good player, don't get me wrong. Top notch defender obviously. But HOF?

 

[RUhasarrived]

Let me explain:The currency of baseball is the out.Avoiding it on offense and converting a batted ball into one on defense is what the game is all about.
Retrosheet lists Ron Santo as being the best MLB player of the 1960's, having a better decade than that of the Triple Crown winners of that era and better than that of the players whose careers took in the 50's and 70's as well.He was not as great as they were for their full careers.Still,to be the best over any 10 year period should guarantee immortality.His shortened career due to diabetes,left him with just a 44 rating,about half as was the case for Willie Mays,using just one example.
Rolen's rating by them was a 41,easily qualifying him for Cooperstown.

 

[zappaa]

Zap- obviously, you know a hell of a lot more about MLB and 3B than any of us on this board. I actually love OPS as a stat. Goes up there with WHIP for pitchers as the two stats I have liked becoming the norm.

But, when it comes to HOF- do you often go by your eye test. Forget stats, as important as they are, but you watch a player and you just feel it- you don't even have to ask if they are HOF.

Rolen was a very good player and very good fielder. But I just never had him in the same class as a Nettles, Schmidt, B Robinson.

In our day we paid no attention to OPS and didn’t value the analytics of it
It devalues making contact, giving yourself up to move runners over and clutch timely hitting.
You asked about the eye test, yes, our thoughts playing defense and who we feared was completely different than the OPS metrics

 

[rutger80]

If Rolen goes in because he was a great defensive 3rd baseman and a very good hitter, you should include Andruw Jones. Some of the analytics have Jones as the greatest defensive center fielder of all time, plus 434 homers. It's not even a question about the eye test with him, plus you have the testimonies of the Braves starters as to how many runs he prevented.
Rolen's election almost ensures, that with a few more similar years, Nolan Arrenado is a lock.

 

[zappaa]

If Rolen goes in because he was a great defensive 3rd baseman and a very good hitter, you should include Andruw Jones. Some of the analytics have Jones as the greatest defensive center fielder of all time, plus 434 homers. It's not even a question about the eye test with him, plus you have the testimonies of the Braves starters as to how many runs he prevented.
Rolen's election almost ensures, that with a few more similar years, Nolan Arrenado is a lock.

Amen

 

[mikebal9]

If Rolen goes in because he was a great defensive 3rd baseman and a very good hitter, you should include Andruw Jones. Some of the analytics have Jones as the greatest defensive center fielder of all time, plus 434 homers. It's not even a question about the eye test with him, plus you have the testimonies of the Braves starters as to how many runs he prevented.
Rolen's election almost ensures, that with a few more similar years, Nolan Arrenado is a lock.

I agree. Everyone who says Rolen wasn't a hall of famer only talks about his offense. He may have been the best defensive third baseman ever, and that's not an exaggeration. At worst, he's top 4 defensively.
If Ozzie Smith is in, Rolen 100% belongs in, just as Andruw does. Defense is a huge part of the game.

 

[MadRU]

Keith Hernandez

 

[RUaMoose]

Steve Garvey was a better all around player than SR.

 

[tom1944]

Ron Santo is in and Rolen has just as good stats. 8 Gold Gloves. Defense does not count? They had quote that Schmidt said Rolen was better than him on D. I like Chipper but he never won a Gold Glove.

Scott Rolen is no Chipper Jones in comparison to who deserves to be in the HOF

 

[tom1944]

Can I bring up Albert Belle since we are discussing the Hall of Fame

 

[zappaa]

Can I bring up Albert Belle since we are discussing the Hall of Fame

Jeff Kent has monster numbers and played a good 2nd base

 

[zappaa]

If Rolen goes in because he was a great defensive 3rd baseman and a very good hitter, you should include Andruw Jones. Some of the analytics have Jones as the greatest defensive center fielder of all time, plus 434 homers. It's not even a question about the eye test with him, plus you have the testimonies of the Braves starters as to how many runs he prevented.
Rolen's election almost ensures, that with a few more similar years, Nolan Arrenado is a lock.

Speaking of defense, there’s only one guy both Dave Parker and Dave Winfield bowed their head to.
His name was Dwight Evans.
That guy could have hit 100 and won 20 games a year with his defense.
In reality the dude has 385 home runs and close to 1400 RBI’s

 

[tom1944]

Jeff Kent has monster numbers and played a good 2nd base

and should be in the Hall

Why Jeff Kent belongs in the Hall​

Let's begin with the long ball.

Kent, a career .290 hitter, holds the all-time record for most home runs by a second baseman with 351 (out of 377). That’s more than Hall of Famers Ryne Sandberg (277), Joe Morgan (266) and Rogers Hornsby (265).

Then there's his slugging percentage and OPS.

Among players with at least 7,000 plate appearances in their career who spent at least half their time at second base, only Hornsby (.577) has a higher slugging percentage than Kent (.500). Kent ranks third in OPS (.855) behind Hornsby (1.010) and Hall of Famer Charlie Gehringer (.884).

 

[yesrutgers01]

I agree. Everyone who says Rolen wasn't a hall of famer only talks about his offense. He may have been the best defensive third baseman ever, and that's not an exaggeration. At worst, he's top 4 defensively.
If Ozzie Smith is in, Rolen 100% belongs in, just as Andruw does. Defense is a huge part of the game.

Rolen was very good but not game changing good.
You could watch Brooks Robinson and know he was HOF defense alone.Changed defense at 3B. You could watch Ozzie Smith and he changed how SS was played, you watch Keith Hernandez and he changed 1B. And year in and year out- no team watching him hitting in a big situation.
If Rolen is in, KH should be a no brainer.

 

[mikebal9]

Rolen was very good but not game changing good.
You could watch Brooks Robinson and know he was HOF defense alone.Changed defense at 3B. You could watch Ozzie Smith and he changed how SS was played, you watch Keith Hernandez and he changed 1B. And year in and year out- no team watching him hitting in a big situation.
If Rolen is in, KH should be a no brainer.

Rolen is one of the four best defensive 3Bs ever. I'd say that's game changing good.

 

[tom1944]

Rolen is one of the four best defensive 3Bs ever. I'd say that's game changing good.

I can think of many players who were better overall players and not in the Hall

 

[yesrutgers01]

Rolen is one of the four best defensive 3Bs ever. I'd say that's game changing good.

In no order except 1 and 2- Robinson, Schmidt. I think I have Boyer, Nettles and Arenado ahead of him.
But, yes, it could be argued.
But as many have said- if Hernandez does not make it at 1B - and there is almost no argument about if he is the best ever, and except for HR’s he had a better offensive career. Then Rolen doesn’t make it either.
They should both be on that same rung, just a step from the HOF.

 

[Zak57]

The writers who put Rolen in aren't the same ones who dismissed Keith.

Keith would be in if he were on the ballot now.

 

[mikebal9]

In no order except 1 and 2- Robinson, Schmidt. I think I have Boyer, Nettles and Arenado ahead of him.
But, yes, it could be argued.
But as many have said- if Hernandez does not make it at 1B - and there is almost no argument about if he is the best ever, and except for HR’s he had a better offensive career. Then Rolen doesn’t make it either.
They should both be on that same rung, just a step from the HOF.

By my personal standard, I don't think either one should be in. But, by the current standards of the actual voters, they both should.
And as far as ranking 3Bs, Schmidt himself said Rolen was better.

 

[yesrutgers01]

By my personal standard, I don't think either one should be in. But, by the current standards of the actual voters, they both should.
And as far as ranking 3Bs, Schmidt himself said Rolen was better.

You just never know when they are talking about other greats. Rolen is somewhere in the 3-6 range for me but if you want to just agree top 5 I am good with that. Along with agreeing that neither he or Keith should be in.,,or, if one, is in, then certainly, the other.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Interesting that Keith Hernandez is being seriously discussed for HOF. When he was first eligible, he wasn't even close to being on the radar.

In 1996, when Keith was first eligible, he barely hung around with 5.1% of the vote. His high water mark was 10.8%. Then in 2004 (year nine), he fell below 5%. Adios.

Why so little respect? FWIW, his Wiki article offers four possible explanations.

1) Perceived lack of hustle.
2) Admitted cocaine use.
3) Lack of power at a power position.
4) Voters discounting his great defense at a position where offense was considered paramount.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Interesting that Keith Hernandez is being seriously discussed for HOF. When he was first eligible, he wasn't even close to being on the radar.

In 1996, when Keith was first eligible, he barely hung around with 5.1% of the vote. His high water mark was 10.8%. Then in 2004 (year nine), he fell below 5%. Adios.

Why so little respect? FWIW, his Wiki article offers four possible explanations.

1) Perceived lack of hustle.
2) Admitted cocaine use.
3) Lack of power at a power position.
4) Voters discounting his great defense at a position where offense was considered paramount.

Agree with all of that. And even without HR power- he was still considered one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball. And tgere wouldn’t be many teams that would have not jumped if they could have gotten him straight up for their 1B.
He was a unique player but for over a decade, he was just a dominating baseball player. I do think the coke issue hurt him.

 

[WhiteBus]

In 2018, Scott Rolen's first year of HOF eligibility, he got 10% of the vote. How that became 76% in just five years, I do not know. I guess today's analytics make his career look better in retrospect. Still can't figure out how he got in, and Jeff Kent fell off the ballot with < 50%.

Jeff Kent and Scott Rolen both played the same numbers of seasons but Kent dominates every offense category over Rollen. Why isn't Kent in ??