OT: Spencer tonight

[bac2therac]

What I am saying and others agree with, is that last years slower paced game, is not sustainable or capable of winning on a consistent basis.

It required holding onto the ball and playing games in the 50s in order to win. If RU was successful and win 20 to 21 games playing that way, I would agree that was successful, it didn't work.

I am looking at Spencer against teams not named Minnesota and other Power 5/ 6 opponents......this is the breakdown.

Spencer had NINE games out of Indiana, Miami, SHU, MSU (2x) PSU, Illinois, Nebraska and Northwestern.....in those games Spencer scored 47 points........RU went 3 and 6 in those games....that's 5PPG

Spencer had another 10 games of Ohio State (2x) Wake Forest, Maryland, Iowa (2x), Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and PSU....he scored 147 points in these 10 games.....14.7 PPG.

I am not going to say the player is inconsistent, but there is an almost 10PPG difference between Power 5/6 opponents that are respectable........that's a LARGE sample size. Excluding Minnesota is fine in my thought process, but RU went 1 and 1 vs Minnesota, which also lands on the players resume. It was a must win game IMO.

So if I see good games on a much better UConn roster, why is that surprising?? What prevented him from putting up 15 to 20 PPG last year on a consistent basis....??

You're going to blame Pike and the offense....?? LOL.....the players generate their offense, based on talent and abilities. This is a high level of basketball opponents and athletes we compete against, not the Ivy League or some bottom level conference.

it was successful not pretty but successful until Mag went down and the coaching staff and players could not pick up the slack and find answers. Are you telling me that if Mag did not get hurt that Rutgers was not making the tournment

 

[fluoxetine]

Are you telling me that if Mag did not get hurt that Rutgers was not making the tournment

It's kind of hard to say honestly because the rest of the team fell apart to a degree that shouldn't be explained solely by Mag's absence.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I hate to break the news to you, but it is not up to the entire RU roster to sacrifice everything they can do, to set screens and run the entire offense through one player, in order for that other player to be successful.

Sooo.....you mention that "Spencer was required to bring up the ball, because Mulcahy or Simpson couldn't ".......wow, that's actually a fact that I agree with but then if I say BOTH guards were limited, I get push back on both Mulcahy and Spencer as a tandem.

Do I want to pin Spencer's limitations, on a freshman Derek Simpson.????.....you're really reaching at this point......

Funny, if you watch UConn play, on almost every half court possession, they set multiple screens for Spencer, Newton and Karaban to try and get them open shots. And somehow with all that sacrifice, UConn manages to average 17 more points a game than us against vastly superior competition.

 

[fluoxetine]

it was successful not pretty but successful until Mag went down and the coaching staff and players could not pick up the slack and find answers. Are you telling me that if Mag did not get hurt that Rutgers was not making the tournment

It's kind of hard to say honestly because the rest of the team fell apart to a degree that shouldn't be explained solely by Mag's absence.

Though honestly we might have gotten in with exactly the same results if they happened with Mag still playing. Since they wouldn't have had the "different without Mag" excuse.

 

[bac2therac]

It's kind of hard to say honestly because the rest of the team fell apart to a degree that shouldn't be explained solely by Mag's absence.

to me Pike philosophy was threading the needle...defense above all....5 cogs, take one out and it all fell apart

I cant imagine Rutgers playing as pitifully awful at home vs michigan and northwestern

 

[kcg88]

There are four Big Ten players who’ve taken 28+ two-pointers and are making 39% or worse. I will now list them:

Aundre Hyatt, Rutgers
Derek Simpson, Rutgers
JaMichael Davis, Rutgers
Noah Fernandes, Rutgers

So glad we got away from that old style that wasn't working and instead have this new style that isn't working.

 

[RU84]

lmfao

You're saying the only difference between Nebraska's offense and Rutgers' offense and Michigan State's offense and Iowa's offense is the personnel?

They might run different style offenses but the major determinant of your success is the talent level of your players. The major factor separating Pike, Izzo, McCaffrey, etc. is less about X's and O's and more about recruiting, developing, and blending talent.

 

[Degaz-RU]

What I am saying and others agree with, is that last years slower paced game, is not sustainable or capable of winning on a consistent basis.

It required holding onto the ball and playing games in the 50s in order to win. If RU was successful and win 20 to 21 games playing that way, I would agree that was successful, it didn't work.

I am looking at Spencer against teams not named Minnesota and other Power 5/ 6 opponents......this is the breakdown.

Spencer had NINE games out of Indiana, Miami, SHU, MSU (2x) PSU, Illinois, Nebraska and Northwestern.....in those games Spencer scored 47 points........RU went 3 and 6 in those games....that's 5PPG

Spencer had another 10 games of Ohio State (2x) Wake Forest, Maryland, Iowa (2x), Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and PSU....he scored 147 points in these 10 games.....14.7 PPG.

I am not going to say the player is inconsistent, but there is an almost 10PPG difference between Power 5/6 opponents that are respectable........that's a LARGE sample size. Excluding Minnesota is fine in my thought process, but RU went 1 and 1 vs Minnesota, which also lands on the players resume. It was a must win game IMO.

So if I see good games on a much better UConn roster, why is that surprising?? What prevented him from putting up 15 to 20 PPG last year on a consistent basis....??

You're going to blame Pike and the offense....?? LOL.....the players generate their offense, based on talent and abilities. This is a high level of basketball opponents and athletes we compete against, not the Ivy League or some bottom level conference.

I suspect you will see similar variations in production from game to game in just about ANY player who averaged 13 ppg. This is not unique to Cam Spencer.

Also, I notice you omitted the other NW game and the Purdue game from your calculations — two games in which he was lights out and won the games for us. Do you always debate things by omitting relevant data points?

 

[Scangg]

So who would you rather have with the "knock down 3 point shooters" role: a one year player in Cam or a freshman Gavin who, not only has more upside than Cam, but needs minutes to develop for next year to add experience to our highest ranked, but all freshman, incoming recruiting class? There's only so many minutes and roles, you can't have both scenarios. Which one are you choosing?

This is a false narrative. Both Cam and Gavin would play. That is obvious

 

[RU84]

Funny, if you watch UConn play, on almost every half court possession, they set multiple screens for Spencer, Newton and Karaban to try and get them open shots. And somehow with all that sacrifice, UConn manages to average 17 more points a game than us against vastly superior competition.

You're really comparing the talent around Cam this year vs last and saying it's similar? We had one 4 star player last year who was tied with Cam in leading the team in scoring. No one else averaged double digits. How many 4-5 stars does Cam have surrounding him this year? UConn has four other players in addition to Cam averaging double digits with Newton averaging 17. Plus the droppoff in our bench was huge. UConn can bring a 4 star off the bench. You don't think all of that talent doeesn't matter in their offensive production plus elevating Cam?

 

[NickRU714]

There are four Big Ten players who’ve taken 28+ two-pointers and are making 39% or worse. I will now list them:

Aundre Hyatt, Rutgers
Derek Simpson, Rutgers
JaMichael Davis, Rutgers
Noah Fernandes, Rutgers

So glad we got away from that old style that wasn't working and instead have this new style that isn't working.

Ya but do they box out?
If so then they should be playing 40min a game.

 

[Scangg]

But he didn't do that! He shot 30.6% on threes. If there was a hypothetical team that was five Aundre Hyatt's and their entire offense was shooting three pointers at a 30.6% clip, this offense would've ranked 352nd in the country (3 points * .306 = .918, or 91.8 points per 100 possessions). This assumes they never turn it over, too.

Opponents were happy to let Aundre Hyatt shoot threes and you're still trying to present it like it made us better somehow.


It's not a binary choice. As @Degaz-RU said, if Cam stays then we simply don't get Austin Williams. Cam Spencer and Gavin Griffiths have almost nothing to do with each other.


Somehow UConn is finding a way to make it work with Tristen Newton, Cam Spencer, Hasan Diarra, 5-star freshman Stephon Castle, and 4-star freshman Solomon Ball. Imagine that.

There's no world where Spencer takes meaningful minutes away from Griffiths so I have no idea what you're talking about

Absolutely destroying Hawk's arguments. This a blood bath for Hawk. Someone call PETA

OMG I am not reading all the posts in this thread but I will unequivocally say that Rutgers would be much better positioned to make the NCAA tournament this year if Cam Spencer was on the team.

This is beyond obvious to those in touch with reality and should not be a controversial statement

 

[RUInsanity]

"Who cares? Move on." is just a part of the discussion. It's what I think the proper thoughts are. I'm expressing my opinion on the thread; I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to post it.

The other reason is that these kinds of threads generally seem to be taking some secondary swipe at the coaching staff or the current team.

Secondary Swipe? I see pretty obvious Primary Swipes and venom towards posters, Pike and the current team.

 

[RUInsanity]

Ya but do they box out?
If so then they should be playing 40min a game.

Name your replacements for Simpson, Davis and Fernandes then we can talk about Defense vs. Offense philosophy.

 

[ru66]

As usual many on here blow with the wind--- a guy's great one day and who wants him the next. But the one certainty is Cam left RU on his own. His choice.

 

[rutgers1998]

He was been UConn‘s leading scorer in about half the games they have played this year, so I think it is fair to say he is a focal point of the offense.

He is a focal point of their offense but not the main focal point like he was at Rutgers. Defenses have much more to worry about at UConn than just Cam Spencer. Thus, freeing up more space for him to be effective. It was easier for defenses to key in on him when he was at Rutgers

 

[Scangg]

Spencer is 2nd on the team in scoring and 2nd in assists while 6th in usage. Not bad for a mediocre 5th option

 

[NickRU714]

Name your replacements for Simpson, Davis and Fernandes then we can talk about Defense vs. Offense philosophy.

All of them? Roster is what it is.
Trim some minutrs and play Griffiths more? Absolutely.

How is the defense philosophy working? We gave up 76 to Illinois and 68 to Princeton.
If we gave up 50pts in those game, the conversation would be different about defense over offense.

Instead we are both limiting the offense but not getting the defensive benefit.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

You're really comparing the talent around Cam this year vs last and saying it's similar? We had one 4 star player last year who was tied with Cam in leading the team in scoring. No one else averaged double digits. How many 4-5 stars does Cam have surrounding him this year? UConn has four other players in addition to Cam averaging double digits with Newton averaging 17. Plus the droppoff in our bench was huge. UConn can bring a 4 star off the bench. You don't think all of that talent doeesn't matter in their offensive production plus elevating Cam?

An even better reason for why we should have been setting screens for him to get him open last year.

 

[RU84]

This is a false narrative. Both Cam and Gavin would play. That is obvious

Perhaps but Gavin's getting 22 mpg and Simpson getting an expanded role as well. Cam's minutes and offensive reliance would have been reduced. He wouldn't be putting up the same numbers he is at UConn.

 

[RUInsanity]

All of them? Roster is what it is.
Trim some minutrs and play Griffiths more? Absolutely.

How is the defense philosophy working? We gave up 76 to Illinois and 68 to Princeton.
If we gave up 50pts in those game, the conversation would be different about defense over offense.

Instead we are both limiting the offense but not getting the defensive benefit.

Yes - the point is that the roster is what it is and you are advocating taking minutes away from Simpson, Fernandes and Davis and giving them to a player who plays a different position.

Would imagine that at this level you don't just change your entire team schemes and philosophy from game to game. Even at lower levels you scheme and constantly drill to certain schemes. You have every right to argue that its not working in several games this year - but historically under Pike its been more about the portfolio of games over the course of an entire season - yet every year people seemingly want to run the guy out of town after any early loss. Essentially you are complaining about Pike's defense first mentality. Unless you are also championing getting rid of him this is not likely to change significantly. The main recommendation I see here is to increase Gavin's minutes and put the ball in his hands more or run him through screens. Not sure what you are watching but he does not appear (at least yet) to have the handle nor capability to run point, and his 3 point shooting consistency is not there as well even when taking open shots. And as with the rest of the team, he has also made some careless runs at the rim at times.

I know you watch a lot of basketball. With that you should know that teams tend to run hot and cold from game to game. Both Illinois and Princeton may turn into tourney teams, and IMO there is no great shame in losing such games. What I see on offense that is not working is efficiency at the rim nor at the arc. Our guards are getting to the rim but not finishing nor dishing. Beyond Simpson, our highest 3 point shooting % is .323...which does not cut it. Regardless of the offensive scheme or defensive focus, these 2 things need to get better over the entire roster ......it's not the binary "either Defense or Offense" that you are making it out to be.....the team needs to focus on D and also make shots.

 

[Rokodesh]

Spencer was good. No one denies that. Curious if you guys also stalk your old HS girlfriends on Facebook too?

He’s not here. Move on.

only on Instagram

 

[cm_13]

This is a false narrative. Both Cam and Gavin would play. That is obvious

Idk where this idea that you can only have one knock down 3 point shooter on the floor at a time came from.

 

[Zak57]

A strawman from Hawk.

 

[RUChoppin]

Do you always debate things by omitting relevant data points?

Yes, he does. Without cherry picking and straw men, he'd have nothing to say

 

[Shelby65]

My god you are so full of shit

In his defense, he’s not in the same asininity universe as Rutgers Al.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Yes, I am admitting defeat.....he's a lottery pick and UConns best player......he's the best RU player since Douby or before that with John Battle, Eddie Jordan and others at RU.

I have a high level of confidence and a high level of basketball knowledge, that this thread has multiple people with Hawk on their minds. Maybe because, what I actually say, hits home for you and other fans. Maybe because, what I write actually is factual.....mixed with some reasonable basketball opinions and insight.

There are fans who have a LOW standard of success....and that is perfectly OK. I cannot make fans raise their levels of expectations or reality. I can only state what is reality and what I see.

The harsh reality is this.....there are fans who accept mediocrity within every level of the RU sports....and it's spread out from decades of a loser mentality, a loser mindset and it shows up, when fans accept mediocre players like Cam Spencer as the standard for winning.

This is an indicator that I am not only 100% correct on Spencer, that you and countless others are still in disbelief that RU can actually do better than Cam Spencer....that there's levels to actually try and win more than a NIT bid. This is what you are crying over, I am looking back at last year and asking myself, if he was THAT good, when did that show up in February 2023???

The low expectations are still seeping into other threads, discussing Dylan Harper, Ace Bailey and others.........there are some still mentioning Lance Thomas and Jay Williams......LMAO.......it comes down to fans like you, who believe Cam Spencer is the standard of winning......and that a NIT season and 11PPG is the standard against Power 5 competitors. That was Spencer's production last year.

Maybe that is acceptable for YOU, but I am extremely confident that RU can and will do better down the road than Spencer brings to the table. But as 430PM arrives today, you and others still expect the worst.....you are scarred and scared of success.....you are afraid of winning and going further than a NIT bid last year.

Sooo to close this loop, I am admitting that Cam Spencer played his 1st game of his 5 year NCAA career, where he scored 20 points against a ranked opponent.....as a 5th year senior and a loaded UConn roster, he is the best UConn player to ever put on a Huskies uniform. I am admitting that today as well......

I hope being mediocre and average suits you well.....I stay at the top of the food-chain because you know and I know, I am right "most" of the time. If I wasn't right, why would you care what I have to say???? 😁😁

The defending national champs embraced mediocrity while RU rejected it? Sure…

 

[JeepGuy999]

Cam didn’t love you back, stop being crazy ex-girlfriends

 

[pmvon]

Just further proof of Pike’s inability to properly utilize offensive talent. Better change the philosophy if you want to take next step

How is it proof? Spencer averaged 13.5 last year for RU. 15 so far for UConn.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

All you have to do is look at how awful the guard play is again against decent competition. Fernandes and Simpson are a combined 17 pts on 6-20 shooting, 4 boards, 2 assists and 6 TOs.

And look at Cliff, he looks like a shell of himself because Paul & Cam were in sync with him and knew how to feed him the ball. Poor guy barely gets an alley-oop thrown to him now and is totally taken out of the game on offense.

Anyone still thinking that RU got better with them leaving should just ban themselves at this point.

 

[biazza38]

Cam can go F himself
Same with Paul

 

[Salvi's Headband]

Cam can go F himself
Same with Paul

Torpedoed our season. **** em

 

[Scangg]

Guards were an absolute disaster tonight. All of them. Every single one

 

[S_Janowski]

What I am saying and others agree with, is that last years slower paced game, is not sustainable or capable of winning on a consistent basis.

It required holding onto the ball and playing games in the 50s in order to win. If RU was successful and win 20 to 21 games playing that way, I would agree that was successful, it didn't work.

I am looking at Spencer against teams not named Minnesota and other Power 5/ 6 opponents......this is the breakdown.

Spencer had NINE games out of Indiana, Miami, SHU, MSU (2x) PSU, Illinois, Nebraska and Northwestern.....in those games Spencer scored 47 points........RU went 3 and 6 in those games....that's 5PPG

Spencer had another 10 games of Ohio State (2x) Wake Forest, Maryland, Iowa (2x), Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and PSU....he scored 147 points in these 10 games.....14.7 PPG.

I am not going to say the player is inconsistent, but there is an almost 10PPG difference between Power 5/6 opponents that are respectable........that's a LARGE sample size. Excluding Minnesota is fine in my thought process, but RU went 1 and 1 vs Minnesota, which also lands on the players resume. It was a must win game IMO.

So if I see good games on a much better UConn roster, why is that surprising?? What prevented him from putting up 15 to 20 PPG last year on a consistent basis....??

You're going to blame Pike and the offense....?? LOL.....the players generate their offense, based on talent and abilities. This is a high level of basketball opponents and athletes we compete against, not the Ivy League or some bottom level conference.

Hate to break it to you but I don’t think a single person agrees with you LOL.

At one point Sojo was agreeing with you but even he’s smartly gone silent on this topic.

 

[Scangg]

We beat WF last year 81-57 with Paul and Cam going 8-10 from the field, 7-7 FTs for 25 points and 10 assists

Check the box score for what our guards did tonight against wake

 

[RutgersChow]

Hate to break it to you but I don’t think a single person agrees with you LOL.

At one point Sojo was agreeing with you but even he’s smartly gone silent on this topic.

I hate when people say they know what everyone does or does not agree with. I agree with him, and if Mag didn't get hurt last year's ""slow paced" team would have won 22 games and gotten into the NCAA Tournament. How many posters, maybe you, thought this years fast paced team was going to score more and win more. I think one of the mods even said 25 wins was possible. I've also said all along that rebounding might be a problem, and that if you can't rebound you can't run.

 

[S_Janowski]

I hate when people say they know what everyone does or does not agree with. I agree with him, and if Mag didn't get hurt last year's ""slow paced" team would have won 22 games and gotten into the NCAA Tournament. How many posters, maybe you, thought this years fast paced team was going to score more and win more. I think one of the mods even said 25 wins was possible. I've also said all along that rebounding might be a problem, and that if you can't rebound you can't run.

Ummmm I think you’re very mistaken.

These are not things Hawk would agree with.

Hawk has repeatedly stated the loss of Mag had no impact on our team last year.

He also told us we would be better (and score more) without Cam and Spencer.

My expectations were tempered with the lost of those two and also the need to rely on Hyatt and Oscar for large amounts of minutes…so nice try.

 

[RutgersChow]

Ummmm I think you’re very mistaken.

These are not things Hawk would agree with.

Hawk has repeatedly stated the loss of Mag had no impact on our team last year.

He also told us we would be better (and score more) without Cam and Spencer.

My expectations were tempered with the lost of those two and also the need to rely on Hyatt and Oscar for large amounts of minutes…so nice try.

Sorry, I misread who was posting what.

 

[S_Janowski]

Sorry, I misread who was posting what.

No problem Chow

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Ummmm I think you’re very mistaken.

These are not things Hawk would agree with.

Hawk has repeatedly stated the loss of Mag had no impact on our team last year.

He also told us we would be better (and score more) without Cam and Spencer.

My expectations were tempered with the lost of those two and also the need to rely on Hyatt and Oscar for large amounts of minutes…so nice try.

I don't know if you read my posts, but I gave you TWENTY games last year in the B1G and a couple of OOC games where RU averaged 60PPG last year.....that's about 90% of the relevant schedule, excluding Sacred Heart etc.

Even someone who is blind, could see that RU scored in the high 50s vs Illinois and another 57 last night vs Wake Forest.....which is EXACTLY where RU was with and without Mag AND with Spencer and Mulcahy as the backcourt last year. You can add, I hope.

I am only telling you that if RU is scoring 58 and 57 points now AND Cliff averages 5 to 6 PPG for the rest of the season, then you will blindly say it was because Mag is out or Spencer or Mulcahy are gone.....LMAO.....which is why being in denial is where you live....and can't grasp basic concepts.

Cliff has 11 points in the last 2 games. I also have Gavin Griffiths, learning on the fly and going through what most frosh go through......which is called inconsistent play. I have no doubts about his abilities short or long term.

If you are telling me that Gavin is going to score ZERO points for all the rest of the games this year AND Cliff is going to be around 5 to 6PPG and consistently fumbling passes, you will say it's Mag, Spencer and Mulcahy. Those two players if they play "slightly below average" raise the scoring way past 60PPG.....

I will respond with actual facts and supporting data.

RU was trending down last year. It was hidden by a few games, where RU barely won in early January.....sure they beat Purdue, which is what blinded you to what the entire season was like. They won 4 games by a total of 8 points in the B1G last year. The margins of defeat in almost HALF the B1G games was around 9 or more points.

There is a more likely scenario that if you squeak by 4 teams by 8 total points, your margins are not sustainable. You were blinded by what happened and not watching the entirety of the offense or season.

By February, teams adjusted.....teams actually do scout.....they slowed down Spencer and Mulcahy frankly, wasn't aggressive enough on offense to consistently take advantage of his size.....that was his FOUR year pattern of play. He never cracked double digit scoring for a season.....what exactly are you missing???

I could say his 4 game run, the year before in 2021-22, was the high point of this RU career. He stepped up and played high level basketball and RU beat 3 or 4 ranked teams in a row. That level or version of Mulcahy, never resurfaced with the exception of 1 HALF, at MSG vs Michigan State (17 points). But you will say I am wrong......LOL

So to recap for you, if Gavin throws up a donut in scoring for the rest of the season and Cliff continues at 5PPG, then YES at that point, you will be correct that Spencer, Mulcahy and no Mag, are causing Cliff to score at 5PPG and Gavin at 0, while averaging practically the same amount of 60PPG......🤣🤣🤣