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OT: Stock and Investment Talk

I think the reason they jumped here is that the influx of money takes away those creditor concerns. I think it clears the way back towards solvency and out of bankruptcy.

Hertz has had an unbelievable ride. Its unsecured bonds traded below 20 at the height of Covid. Business came to a complete halt. Filed for bankruptcy. Fast forward to today, 2 investment groups competed to buy the Company. Market expectations for the rental car market at all time highs with strong demand this summer and a limited fleet of vehicles available. All lenders, both secured and unsecured, will be paid in full. Equity is being valued at $8/share. So, if you had nerves of steel and bought the 6.00% 2028 Bond at 20 last May, you now will recover 100 (par) and been paid 6.00% to do so. By the way, that 6.00% is on the par value, so 1,000 invested at 20, would produce interest income of $60 on a $200 investment, so 30% plus the capital gain. We are involved with Avis and they held up much better, stock has doubled in 2021, and are poised to have a very strong 2nd half of 2021 and 2022.
You have much more insight in the Hertz bankruptcy process. "Junk bond" investments are not my thing and requires a great deal of knowledge. Who gets the money first, who are the secured and unsecured lenders, how much is owed to each person. That makes value of equity difficult to gauge. Investors will show interest in purchasing the company and then drop their bid. Investments in bankrupt companies and junk bonds is too much of a scary thought for me.


I had a mutual fund whose largest holding was JDS Uniphase. That did not work out as much as it should have since I knew I should take the profits when it was soaring but got greedy and it crashed and burned


To save some of you the trouble

Stock​

During the 1990s, JDS Uniphase stock was a high-flyer tech stock investor favorite. Its stock price doubled three times and three stock splits of 2:1 occurred roughly every 90 days during the last half of 1999 through early 2000, making millionaires of many employees who were stock option holders, and further enabling JDS Uniphase to go on an acquisition and merger binge. After a downturn in the telecom industry as part of the dot com bubble, JDS Uniphase announced in late July 2001 the largest (up to then) write-down of goodwill. Employment soon dropped as part of the Global Realignment Program from nearly 29,000 to approximately 5,300, many of its factories and facilities were closed around the world, and the stock price dropped from $153 per share to less than $2 per share

JDS Uniphase type of situation may play out in the crypto space. The values of cryptocurrency is just too high right now. The Tesla situation with dropping bitcoin for environmental reasons has to be taken as a serious threat.
 
Very good point, on semi's and BRK. BRK is one of the top holdings of most of my LC value funds.

First, a disclosure.I own BRK. Have since 2001, with meaningful additional purchases in 2009. And I’m buying more.

In my view, it is as safe a business to own as I’ve encountered. To a certain extent, you could substitute it for the S&P 500 in holdings. I suspect BRK will do a little better over time, but not a lot better. because it pays no dividend today, it is more tax efficient outside of a retirement account. And I think it’s somewhat cheap, though not as cheap as it’s been and not as cheap as it will be once WB is no longer in charge,

Analyzing Berkshire takes a long time. There are many substantial businesses, and some are not great businesses but many are irreplaceable Think BNSF Or MidAmerican Energy. But for purpose of laying out why I think it’s attractive, I’ll simplify.

Berkshire consist of two broad categories. First, you have the ownership in publicly listed stocks, bonds and cash. These investment are largely possible due to the vast amount of insurance float at Berkshire. On a per share basis (all of these figures are for the “A” shares. For the B share, divide by 1,500), the value of their portfolio is about $303,000.

The second part of Berkshire is the wholly owned businesses (Excluding insurance). For the last twelve months, those businesses generated pretax earnings per share of $14,644. Reading historical annual shareholder letters, you can see that WEB has placed a value of 12x on this figure. Seems reasonable. Berkshire has a large set of growing businesses, Using that multiple leaves you with a wholly owned business value per share of about $176,000.

Together with the stock, bond and cash portfolio, you have a total value of $479,000 per A share ($319 per B share).
this valuation ignores the premiums earned in the insurance business because we’ve assumed that insurance float funds the security portfolio. However, Berkshire is unique in that it does earn premiums in excess of claims nearly every year (literally has had one loss in the last 20 years). So as a Berkshire owner valuing the business as outlined, you get the insruance premiums for free, wouldn’t matter for most insurers who, over time, have premiums roughly equal to claims. That, however, is not true of Berkshire. Think of that as an extra margin of error in valuing Berkshire,

So, BRK A is potentially worth $479k (the sum of the securities portfolio per share and the wholly owned businesses) per share and is currently trading at $430k per share, you have a modest margin of error at these levels, but one very powerful force in your favor. Buybacks. WEB is buying back stock, albeit at a slower pace now that the shares are higher but he’s still buying. I’m ok being on the same side of a trade as WEB for a rock solid business trading at a modest discount to intrinsic value.

of course, what about when WEB is no longer in charge? My guess is the shares drop about 15%, and I’d be a buyer. today, the market places no premium on Buffett. We now know who will take over for him, and we have talented investors to manage the portfolio. And the shares already traded at a discount. Could they trade at a persistently larger discount without WEB? Maybe, can’t over look it. That said, intrinsic value has been growing at a heathy clip, so that gap would be closed fairly quickly.

In summary, I think BRK is as safe an equity as you can buy. You have a modest margin of error in the valuation, and a continued catalyst in buybacks, I suspect you could have annual compounding in the low single digits over an extended time. That compares favorable to the S&P for longer term holders due to the tax benefit of no dividends.

of course, I could be wrong. But, that‘s what I think and why.
 
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And you have to love the 50% (formerly 70%) dividends received deduction BKB gets on it's public company holdings payouts.
 
First, a disclosure.I own BRK. Have since 2001, with meaningful additional purchases in 2009. And I’m buying more.

In my view, it is as safe a business to own as I’ve encountered. To a certain extent, you could substitute it for the S&P 500 in holdings. I suspect BRK will do a little better over time, but not a lot better. because it pays no dividend today, it is more tax efficient outside of a retirement account. And I think it’s somewhat cheap, though not as cheap as it’s been and not as cheap as it will be once WB is no longer in charge,

Analyzing Berkshire takes a long time. There are many substantial businesses, and some are not great businesses but many are irreplaceable Think BNSF Or MidAmerican Energy. But for purpose of laying out why I think it’s attractive, I’ll simplify.

Berkshire consist of two broad categories. First, you have the ownership in publicly listed stocks, bonds and cash. These investment are largely possible due to the vast amount of insurance float at Berkshire. On a per share basis (all of these figures are for the “A” shares. For the B share, divide by 1,500), the value of their portfolio is about $303,000.

The second part of Berkshire is the wholly owned businesses (Excluding insurance). For the last twelve months, those businesses generated pretax earnings per share of $14,644. Reading historical annual shareholder letters, you can see that WEB has placed a value of 12x on this figure. Seems reasonable. Berkshire has a large set of growing businesses, Using that multiple leaves you with a wholly owned business value per share of about $176,000.

Together with the stock, bond and cash portfolio, you have a total value of $479,000 per A share ($319 per B share).
this valuation ignores the premiums earned in the insurance business because we’ve assumed that insurance float funds the security portfolio. However, Berkshire is unique in that it does earn premiums in excess of claims nearly every year (literally has had one loss in the last 20 years). So as a Berkshire owner valuing the business as outlined, you get the insruance premiums for free, wouldn’t matter for most insurers who, over time, have premiums roughly equal to claims. That, however, is not true of Berkshire. Think of that as an extra margin of error in valuing Berkshire,

So, BRK A is potentially worth $479k (the sum of the securities portfolio per share and the wholly owned businesses) per share and is currently trading at $430k per share, you have a modest margin of error at these levels, but one very powerful force in your favor. Buybacks. WEB is buying back stock, albeit at a slower pace now that the shares are higher but he’s still buying. I’m ok being on the same side of a trade as WEB for a rock solid business trading at a modest discount to intrinsic value.

of course, what about when WEB is no longer in charge? My guess is the shares drop about 15%, and I’d be a buyer. today, the market places no premium on Buffett. We now know who will take over for him, and we have talented investors to manage the portfolio. And the shares already traded at a discount. Could they trade at a persistently larger discount without WEB? Maybe, can’t over look it. That said, intrinsic value has been growing at a heathy clip, so that gap would be closed fairly quickly.

In summary, I think BRK is as safe an equity as you can buy. You have a modest margin of error in the valuation, and a continued catalyst in buybacks, I suspect you could have annual compounding in the low single digits over an extended time. That compares favorable to the S&P for longer term holders due to the tax benefit of no dividends.

of course, I could be wrong. But, that‘s what I think and why.
Very good summary of BRK. I watched the recent shareholder meeting and learned a lot. My father actually has a few A shares that date back to the 80s. I believe he once had 10-12, but only 3-4 now.

Over the past 10 years, BRK has tracked almost perfectly with my top value fund (T Rowe Price Value). It should be a nice safe haven. I also use PRWCX when the road ahead looks bumpy. The fund is closed to new investors, but I also kept a small amount in case I needed it in the future.

Analysts give BRK an average forecasted return of 7-8% over the next 12 months.
 
That experience changed my outlook. I take profits now when I am at a point that I am satisfied with the gain and I do not worry about paying taxes if it is a taxable account
It absolutely no longer bothers me when I take a profit and the stock continues to rise. Can't second guess. Or be willing to dump a dog at a loss instead of stubbornly holding until it comes back. My biggest mistake was not being more aggressive in 2008/2009 after things fell so far so fast. But I work in the financial industry which was shrinking along with those losses. I had to manage the possibility of job loss and maintaining liquidity against putting money at risk in some real golden (retrospect) investment opportunities. It's never easy.
 
It absolutely no longer bothers me when I take a profit and the stock continues to rise. Can't second guess. Or be willing to dump a dog at a loss instead of stubbornly holding until it comes back. My biggest mistake was not being more aggressive in 2008/2009 after things fell so far so fast. But I work in the financial industry which was shrinking along with those losses. I had to manage the possibility of job loss and maintaining liquidity against putting money at risk in some real golden (retrospect) investment opportunities. It's never easy.
As the saying goes, “You can never be criticized for taking a profit.”
 
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It absolutely no longer bothers me when I take a profit and the stock continues to rise. Can't second guess. Or be willing to dump a dog at a loss instead of stubbornly holding until it comes back. My biggest mistake was not being more aggressive in 2008/2009 after things fell so far so fast. But I work in the financial industry which was shrinking along with those losses. I had to manage the possibility of job loss and maintaining liquidity against putting money at risk in some real golden (retrospect) investment opportunities. It's never easy.
I use to always get irritated when I took profits and the stocks continued to rise but then I started to change my strategy to buy and sell in increments so it would be unlikely that I wasn’t close to the high or low when I sold or purchased. It’s all psychological.
 
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It absolutely no longer bothers me when I take a profit and the stock continues to rise. Can't second guess. Or be willing to dump a dog at a loss instead of stubbornly holding until it comes back. My biggest mistake was not being more aggressive in 2008/2009 after things fell so far so fast. But I work in the financial industry which was shrinking along with those losses. I had to manage the possibility of job loss and maintaining liquidity against putting money at risk in some real golden (retrospect) investment opportunities. It's never easy.
I remember the 2008/2009 crash well. My wife and I were going on vacation and watched Congress crash the market by voting down the TARP package (which would eventually pass). However, we were just observers of the crisis. Pharma was untouched in 2008/2009. That's when it became clear to me that pharma is essentially immune to the economy. Don't get me wrong, we have other challenges to manage, but when it comes to the ups and downs of the overall economy, we are in a bubble.
 
I remember the 2008/2009 crash well. My wife and I were going on vacation and watched Congress crash the market by voting down the TARP package (which would eventually pass). However, we were just observers of the crisis. Pharma was untouched in 2008/2009. That's when it became clear to me that pharma is essentially immune to the economy. Don't get me wrong, we have other challenges to manage, but when it comes to the ups and downs of the overall economy, we are in a bubble.
Many of the Pharma have low PE and can’t go much lower probably in 2009. I started to gravitate to the Pharma the last month or so as a defensive stocks, JNJ, AMGN, PFE, ABBVE AND MRK while receiving a decent dividend.
 
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BRK is a great defensive stock at this time. It’s as close to being in cash but still being in the market. With 148 billion in cash, Buffett is waiting for the correction or crash to take advantage of the situation just like 2008. They don’t call it timing the market when Buffett does it but it is timing the market. He probably has his targets ready to buy. I was strongly looking into buying it but was afraid of Buffett lifespan.
 
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Many of the Pharma have low PE and can’t go much lower probably in 2009. I started to gravitate to the Pharma the last month or so as a defensive stocks, JNJ, AMGN, PFE, ABBVE AND MRK while receiving a decent dividend.
Pharma/Health Sciences is seriously undervalued! I have been in PRHSX since 2005 (T Rowe Price Health Sciences) and love the fund. However, please note, this sector screams for a fund approach. Even a large company is at the whims of the FDA and clinical trials. Both are highly unpredictable, even to industry experts. This is why you always see pharma/biotechs on the daily top gainers and losers. FDA decisions and clinical trials results have massive impact on share prices.

Vanguard's VHT is okay, but PRHSX is the best to cover this sector.
 
BRK is a great defensive stock at this time. It’s as close to being in cash but still being in the market. With 148 billion in cash, Buffett is waiting for the correction or crash to take advantage of the situation just like 2008. They don’t call it timing the market when Buffett does it but it is timing the market. He probably has his targets ready to buy. I was strongly looking into buying it but was afraid of Buffett lifespan.

Agree with much of your post, but not about the timing part. He is most definitely not timing the market.
 
Great day in the market. Unloaded some of my recent purchases don’t know the market direction next week.
 
Great day in the market. Unloaded some of my recent purchases don’t know the market direction next week.
I trimmed a bit and may sell more heading into the close. I think these are dead cat bounces at least for spec tech. Volatility will ramp up during the next month or two.
 
Great day in the market. Unloaded some of my recent purchases don’t know the market direction next week.
Market is sprinting through the finish line, which is a good sign that more green is coming. Look for the Daq is regain it's ATH in the near future with traditional/value tech leading the way. Long-term? It's all about the next round of inflation and GDP data.
 
@Frida's Boss , not sure your thoughts on ETF's in general but what are your thoughts on QQQ vs RSP which is equal weighted vs QQQ's market cap weighting, basically moving with the FAANG stocks?
 
@Frida's Boss , not sure your thoughts on ETF's in general but what are your thoughts on QQQ vs RSP which is equal weighted vs QQQ's market cap weighting, basically moving with the FAANG stocks?
RSP seems like a good option when small/mid-caps are out pacing large caps (which isn't too often). Over the long-run, a market cap weighted index will beat it handedly.

Instead of RSP, just grab an extended market fund when needed.....VXF.
 
What do mean "artificially low prices"?
Yeah, I don’t think we have “artificially low prices”. If anything, during the past 12 months we’ve had artificially high prices. It’s only now that valuations are starting to matter which is why there are plenty of stocks that will continue to fall. The tech wreck isn’t done by any means but it will take a few months to reel in some of the high fliers.
 
Prices well below stocks intrinsic value (FMV).
What prices? What FMV? I think there are going to be a lot of short term pullback as the market adjusts to recovery stocks and impending inflation. Long term investor like yourself will be fine, but I would not say "artificial prices" or use "FMV" to determine current equity prices.
 
What prices? What FMV? I think there are going to be a lot of short term pullback as the market adjusts to recovery stocks and impending inflation. Long term investor like yourself will be fine, but I would not say "artificial prices" or use "FMV" to determine current equity prices.
Anything that lowers price without also lowering the intrinsic value of a company is artificial (same thing is true on the flip side.....increasing price without increasing value). This why March/April 2020 was such an irresistible buying opportunity for many companies.
 
Anything that lowers price without also lowering the intrinsic value of a company is artificial (same thing is true on the flip side.....increasing price without increasing value). This why March/April 2020 was such an irresistible buying opportunity for many companies.

Inflationary risks and potential higher corporate taxes would change the earnings of a company. So I don’t consider them “artificial”. Those are real risks and the market is assessing those risks and adjusting the stock prices accordingly. Remember, the stock market is forward looking.
 
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Inflationary risks and potential higher corporate taxes would change the earnings of a company. So I don’t consider them “artificial”. Those are real risks and the market is assessing those risks and adjusting the stock prices accordingly. Remember, the stock market is forward looking.
Inflationary "risks" are meaningless and have been cited for the past decade. As Powell says, let's see what actually happens. Same thing about "potential" higher corporate taxes. Until things actually happen, it is all artificial and background noise.
 
Inflationary "risks" are meaningless and have been cited for the past decade. As Powell says, let's see what actually happens. Same thing about "potential" higher corporate taxes. Until things actually happen, it is all artificial and background noise.
Wether you consider them meaningless is not the point. Once again the stock market is forward thinking and these risks are causing a shift in the market from growth stocks which will cause vibrations in the entire market. 5-10 years from now it will not mean much, just like 2008-2009 didn’t mean much for buy and hold investors. But for short term traders, the volatility is a boon. These are not artificial like 10% correction of an overheated market.
 
I’m getting more defensive and got rid some of Techs and only keeping AMZN, GOOG and MSFT. Most of the other stock holdings are defensive value, pharm and dividend play.
 
Yea, I think I kept like 15 shares
I have a modest amount of shares for those 4 as well, but plenty of additional exposure via my funds/efts. I'm nicely hedged into the value side in my 2 main retirement accounts. May go more as we approach Q3, depending how the economy looks.

Jumped into another energy play and also a rare materials play. So far so good.
 
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