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OT: Stock and Investment Talk

None of these points are the point to which this specific discussion originally started. That being you said no one on this board has talked about the lack of yield in the bond market. We've definitely talked about it.

Fair enough. We are up to 26 pages on the topic of investments and the bond market and bond yields have been mentioned maybe a handful of times. My point which I think you know I was making is that the vast majority of this thread is about stocks and the vast majority of folks on this board only see stocks as investments.
 
My post did make a gross oversimplification of gold, and I see why it would lead to comparisons to collectibles like art or even baseball cards. However, gold is different in that, with the exception of the relatively short period of time of 1971 to the present, gold was money. Before 1971, you could, in theory, exchange the green federal reserve notes in your wallet for gold at the rate of $35 per ounce. And you could exchange foreign currencies to dollars at defined exchange rates as well, effectively linking their currencies to gold. Now, no longer, of course. Those federal reserve notes used to be IOUs for a certain amount of gold. Now they are IOU nothings. So, that is a significant difference between gold and other items.

Agree. I guess the real question is how long can you print paper that really is only backed by the United States military. At one point we were an economic juggernaut, but no more.

The question is what happens when the dollar collapses and those IOUs are not accepted as the reserve currency? It seems to me that at some point, we have to have a currency that is backed by something more than an IOU. Will it be gold? an SDR basket of currencies;? a combination? Who knows? But I if our system as it is currently configured is to extend infinite, then we may as well as give every American family $1,000.00 a weeks because at least this way, you would be churning the economic engines of consumer buying and in turn, manufacturing.
 
The market had a hell of a good week! Pretty positive jobs and unemployment data. The Nasdaq and growth stocks are red hot, but performance is red hot as well, so it seems legit. Amazon has officially become the nation's main street marketplace.

Multiple vaccine candidates in P3 now, data will start reporting out in Oct/Nov. Steady as you go. :)
 
The question is what happens when the dollar collapses and those IOUs are not accepted as the reserve currency?
You had been predicting this for a long, long time. When will it happen? Why will it happen? What will replace it? Euro? Yuan? Both doubtful. Can't replace something with nothing.
 
You had been predicting this for a long, long time. When will it happen? Why will it happen? What will replace it? Euro? Yuan? Both doubtful. Can't replace something with nothing.

I have explained why a hundred times, at least. I have said a hundred times that nobody knows when. In my post above, I speculated what might replace it.

I predicted this beginning in 2015. Nobody I knew foresaw endless QE which is why it hasn't happened yet.
 
The market had a hell of a good week! Pretty positive jobs and unemployment data. The Nasdaq and growth stocks are red hot, but performance is red hot as well, so it seems legit. Amazon has officially become the nation's main street marketplace.

Multiple vaccine candidates in P3 now, data will start reporting out in Oct/Nov. Steady as you go. :)

Ultimately, there are two factors that determine a successful equity investment. First is valuation. You can purchase equity in a subpar enterprise and still make a good return provided you purchase it at an attractive price. The second factor is business performance. If you can purchase a good business at an attractive price, you have a great investment. If, however, you purchase a good or even great business at an inflated valuation, you will not have a good return. For example, witness how long it took for investors purchasing shares of MSFT in 1999 and early 2000 to see shares rose to those levels after the dot com crash. Or go back to the infamous “Nifty Fifty” stocks on the late 1960s or early 1970s. Your rationale for investing in growing businesses at inflated valuations is not new. It’s been done many times in the past, and the track record is readily observable.
 
Ultimately, there are two factors that determine a successful equity investment. First is valuation. You can purchase equity in a subpar enterprise and still make a good return provided you purchase it at an attractive price. The second factor is business performance. If you can purchase a good business at an attractive price, you have a great investment. If, however, you purchase a good or even great business at an inflated valuation, you will not have a good return. For example, witness how long it took for investors purchasing shares of MSFT in 1999 and early 2000 to see shares rose to those levels after the dot com crash. Or go back to the infamous “Nifty Fifty” stocks on the late 1960s or early 1970s. Your rationale for investing in growing businesses at inflated valuations is not new. It’s been done many times in the past, and the track record is readily observable.
Buy funds and indexes covering most of the market plus some bonds/stable value options, dollar cost average over several decades, we buy on every Monday and every other Friday. Problem solved!

So I agree, timing is tricky thing.
 
Ultimately, there are two factors that determine a successful equity investment. First is valuation. You can purchase equity in a subpar enterprise and still make a good return provided you purchase it at an attractive price. The second factor is business performance. If you can purchase a good business at an attractive price, you have a great investment. If, however, you purchase a good or even great business at an inflated valuation, you will not have a good return. For example, witness how long it took for investors purchasing shares of MSFT in 1999 and early 2000 to see shares rose to those levels after the dot com crash. Or go back to the infamous “Nifty Fifty” stocks on the late 1960s or early 1970s. Your rationale for investing in growing businesses at inflated valuations is not new. It’s been done many times in the past, and the track record is readily observable.
BTW, I've been researching international markets and funds/ETFs. Looking at a Vanguard international growth fund or ishares ETF. Still looks soft compared to domestic.
 
Agree. I guess the real question is how long can you print paper that really is only backed by the United States military. At one point we were an economic juggernaut, but no more.

The question is what happens when the dollar collapses and those IOUs are not accepted as the reserve currency? It seems to me that at some point, we have to have a currency that is backed by something more than an IOU. Will it be gold? an SDR basket of currencies;? a combination? Who knows? But I if our system as it is currently configured is to extend infinite, then we may as well as give every American family $1,000.00 a weeks because at least this way, you would be churning the economic engines of consumer buying and in turn, manufacturing.

I’ve generally been of the view that reserve asset transition will happen organically as the share of the US of the global economy continues to shrink. At some point, it will fall below a threshold where some form of currency basket will take share away from the dollar.

Predictions of debasement and massive inflation have been made for quite some time. I think the inflationary pressures exerted by liberal dollar creation have been countered by the deflationary benefits of globalization. Pulling away from continues globalization, I think, will contribute to faster inflation. Powell’s comments recently about actively seeking and tolerating higher inflation are, in my view, cause for concern.
 
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Buy funds and indexes covering most of the market plus some bonds/stable value options, dollar cost average over several decades, we buy on every Monday and every other Friday. Problem solved!

So I agree, timing is tricky thing.

Yes, if you make purchases systematically and basically ignore the performance, you will have a satisfactory, albeit average, result.
 
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Yes, if you make purchases systematically and basically ignore the performance, you will have a satisfactory, albeit average, result.
We do this for our core retirement accounts. However, I am becoming a little more engaged with our brokerage account. It only accounts for 10% of our investment assets, so I guess I can't screw it up too much. :)
 
Fair enough. We are up to 26 pages on the topic of investments and the bond market and bond yields have been mentioned maybe a handful of times. My point which I think you know I was making is that the vast majority of this thread is about stocks and the vast majority of folks on this board only see stocks as investments.
Well given the low bond yield why would we be talking about bonds aside from talking about how useless it is right now?

Interestingly this thread was originally titled Stock talk but T2K asked me to change it to include other investments.

I am considering refinancing the house cashing out a bit and buying some land somewhere too. But haven't really begun that process yet.
 
Well given the low bond yield why would we be talking about bonds aside from talking about how useless it is right now?

Interestingly this thread was originally titled Stock talk but T2K asked me to change it to include other investments.

I am considering refinancing the house cashing out a bit and buying some land somewhere too. But haven't really begun that process yet.

We would talk about it because the debt market (at least theoretically) drives the equities market. The only reason it hasn't is because the Fed is propping up the stock market.

A month ago, it was really exciting to see how well all of us were doing in the stock market. But at least for me, it is becoming harder to get those lofty returns. Of course, that does not mean that they (high returns) will not come back. I certainly hope so.

My opinion (although you didn't ask for it) is only buy land with cash or available funds. I would be very cautious about using debt to buy land.
 
We would talk about it because the debt market (at least theoretically) drives the equities market. The only reason it hasn't is because the Fed is propping up the stock market.

A month ago, it was really exciting to see how well all of us were doing in the stock market. But at least for me, it is becoming harder to get those lofty returns. Of course, that does not mean that they (high returns) will not come back. I certainly hope so.

My opinion (although you didn't ask for it) is only buy land with cash or available funds. I would be very cautious about using debt to buy land.

Why? I would think super low rates coupled with likely inflation make taking on dept (at a fixed rate) an easy call.

As per the last month's returns, for myself, it wasn't as good as late May, early June, but I had a bad 3 weeks in June, so I've regained my footing and had a strong July and early August thus far.
 
Why? I would think super low rates coupled with likely inflation make taking on dept (at a fixed rate) an easy call.

As per the last month's returns, for myself, it wasn't as good as late May, early June, but I had a bad 3 weeks in June, so I've regained my footing and had a strong July and early August thus far.

Just a matter of personal preference I guess. I personally only buy things in cash. We have significant equity in our house but we won't touch it. I also see on Zillow that a lot of land near us in the Adirondacks is bot being sold.

My guess is that if you wait a year or two, you will get land for a song. Just my two cents.
 
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Just a matter of personal preference I guess. I personally only buy things in cash. We have significant equity in our house but we won't touch it. I also see on Zillow that a lot of land near us in the Adirondacks is bot being sold.

My guess is that if you wait a year or two, you will get land for a song. Just my two cents.
With the change shortage those two cents are actually worth something these days.

But seriously though, doesn't the idea of getting a low interest rate mortgage prior to inflation make fiscal sense?

I would think the one thing you don't want to have during an inflationary period is cash, but everything else is going to go up relative to current dollars. So why not get a loan at current dollar and then buy something?

Now this strategy would expose me a bit more to risk, and your consideration regarding properties currently not moving is something I need to check into. Still if the general movement is out from the cities, and inflation does kick in, I'm thinking now is the time to strike.
 
Special shout out to @Frida's Boss :

Why It Might Be Time to Invest in Non-U.S. Stocks — Journal Report
https://www.morningstar.com/news/do...ime-to-invest-in-non-us-stocks-journal-report

Provided by Dow Jones
Aug 9, 2020 10:14 PM EDT

By Dan Weil
Foreign stocks have had a rough go of it compared with U.S. stocks over the past decade. That might be about to change.

Stocks in foreign developed markets as well as emerging markets have greatly underperformed U.S. shares for years, pushing U.S. stock valuations far above foreign valuations. Even last year, when stocks were strong world-wide, the average U.S.-stock mutual fund or exchange-traded fund rose 28%, outpacing the average international-stock fund's 23% advance, according to Refinitiv Lipper data. This year, U.S.-stock funds were down 2.1% on average through July and international-stock funds were down 5.5%.

Now, the question is whether valuations, along with shifting global economic fundamentals, make foreign stocks an attractive investment -- perhaps finally justifying the long-held advice that U.S. investors keep at least a portion of their portfolios in overseas shares or funds. Many investing professionals say the answer to that question is yes.

"If you're investing for the next 10 years, valuations are compelling to invest overseas," says Steven Violin, a portfolio manager at F.L.Putnam Investment Management Co. in Wellesley, Mass.

In the 10 years through July 31, the S&P 500 returned 13.84% annualized, including dividends. That compares with 5.3%, in dollar terms, for the MSCI World ex-USA Index of developed nations and 3.69%, in dollar terms, for the MSCI Emerging Markets Index.

That has kept U.S. stock valuations at the top of the totem pole. As of July 31, the forward price-earnings ratio, based on earnings estimates for the current fiscal year, totaled 23.84 for the S&P 500, 18.57 for the MSCI World ex-USA Index and 15.84 for the MSCI Emerging Markets Index, according to Morningstar Direct.

On the economic front, many countries are further along than the U.S. in emerging from coronavirus lockdowns. That has helped put some of their economies in a stronger position than the U.S., many investing pros say. Numerous countries also have adopted successful economic-stimulus plans.

Those perceived economic advantages show up in earnings forecasts. Analysts polled by FactSet predict earnings for companies in the MSCI Emerging Markets Index will fall less than earnings for companies in the U.S. S&P 500 index this year. And emerging-markets earnings are seen rebounding more than U.S. earnings next year.

Those analysts also estimate earnings for developed-markets companies in the MSCI World ex-USA Index will drop more this year than for companies in the S&P 500 -- but developed-markets earnings are seen bouncing back further than U.S. profits next year.

Emerging-markets interest

Some investment managers are particularly enthusiastic about emerging markets, where stocks already have outperformed their U.S. counterparts over the past three months.

"With a long-term view of where the world's growth is likely to emanate from, emerging markets is where you might like to place your bets," says Karim Ahamed, a financial adviser at Cerity Partners in Chicago. "They have young and vibrant economies, growing faster than developed markets."

The labor pools of emerging-markets countries should grow faster than those of developed nations -- providing fuel for economic growth -- because emerging-markets nations have younger populations than developed countries, he notes.

On the pandemic front, a number of emerging-markets countries have done well fighting Covid-19. "South Korea is the gold standard," says Amanda Agati, chief investment strategist for PNC Financial Services Group. "This is a tailwind for emerging markets, though not every country has been perfect."

Economic-growth numbers are stronger for important emerging markets, such as China, than for the U.S. The International Monetary Fund estimates that U.S. GDP will contract 8% this year, compared with a 3% contraction, on average, for emerging markets. Next year, the IMF expects a 4.5% rebound in the U.S., compared with a 5.9% bounceback, on average, in emerging markets.

Many developed countries, as well, are ahead of the U.S. in the coronavirus cycle. "We're seeing signs of a potential second wave in countries like Spain and France," Ms. Agati says. "But they've already proven they can deal with a temporary shutdown, whereas the U.S. is still struggling with that initial wave."

Many investment pros are impressed with the European Union's ability to craft a EUR750 billion ($880 billion) fiscal stimulus package, passed last month. In the U.S., by contrast, Democrats and Republicans have been unable to agree on another round of stimulus that most analysts think is needed to buoy the economy.

While the IMF predicts GDP will shrink more in the euro area than in the U.S. this year -- 10.2% to 8% -- it sees a bigger recovery for the euro area than for the U.S. next year -- 6% to 4.5%.

Another factor that could help foreign stocks is the dollar's weakness. The Bloomberg Spot Dollar Index slid 9% from its March 23 high through July 31. A sliding dollar makes foreign stocks more attractive for U.S. investors because foreign stocks gain value in dollar terms when the dollar is falling.

Market psychology

Psychology will also play a role in lifting foreign stocks compared with U.S. stocks, says Jeffrey Kleintop, chief global investment strategist at Charles Schwab. "It's almost more behavioral than fundamental," he says. "After a decade, whatever markets led in investor expectations get high in value, and then recession resets expectations. Where expectations were highest, valuations come down the most."

Market history has played out that way for the past 50 years, with the direction of U.S. and foreign markets flipping at the end of every economic cycle, which often last about 10 years, Mr. Kleintop says. So he anticipates foreign stocks will outpace U.S. shares for the next decade.

"There may be real value in Asian and European companies that serve the same customer base as U.S. companies but can be purchased for a lower cost," he says.

Allocation strategy

So how should investors interested in foreign stocks allocate their money? A broad, diversified exposure to countries and industries gives investors a chance to participate in the upside of foreign stocks while potentially damping declines, analysts say.

"You don't need to get fancy," Mr. Kleintop says. He figures that including one broad exchange-traded fund for developed markets and one for emerging markets in a portfolio would do the trick. That would give investors a chance to tweak their weighting between the two, as emerging-markets stocks often outperform developed-markets stocks early in the economic cycle before lagging later, he says.

The two biggest developed-markets ETFs are Vanguard FTSE Developed Markets ETF (VEA) and iShares Core MSCI EAFE ETF (IEFA). Both funds receive Morningstar's top rating of gold.

The two biggest emerging-markets ETFs are Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF (VWO) and iShares Core MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (IEMG). Both have Morningstar's third-highest rating of bronze.

While broad ETFs offer a convenient, inexpensive option, Mr. Ahamed of Cerity Partners says a good active manager can provide more downside protection. He recommends a combination of active and passive funds.

One active mutual fund Mr. Ahamed likes is Harding Loevner Emerging Markets Advisor (HLEMX), rated silver by Morningstar. "It's conservative: quality with a growth bias," he says. "It's a one-stop solution."

One issue investors face when venturing overseas is whether to hedge their currency exposure. That exposure helps when the dollar is falling -- but hurts when the dollar is rising, as foreign holdings are then worth less in dollars.

Many experts recommend against hedging, because exposure to foreign currencies diversifies a portfolio, and hedging can be expensive, especially for emerging-markets currencies. "If you're a long-term investor, being unhedged makes sense," Mr. Ahamed says.

Either way, it's high time to consider foreign stocks, many experts say. "Most investors faced with challenges retreat to what has worked -- leaders of the last cycle," Mr. Kleintop says. "That's the wrong instinct. Rebalancing now [toward foreign stocks] is more important than anytime in the last decade."
 
With the change shortage those two cents are actually worth something these days.

But seriously though, doesn't the idea of getting a low interest rate mortgage prior to inflation make fiscal sense?

I would think the one thing you don't want to have during an inflationary period is cash, but everything else is going to go up relative to current dollars. So why not get a loan at current dollar and then buy something?

Now this strategy would expose me a bit more to risk, and your consideration regarding properties currently not moving is something I need to check into. Still if the general movement is out from the cities, and inflation does kick in, I'm thinking now is the time to strike.

Maybe I'm not clear on what you are doing. I thought you were going to pull equity out of your house via refinancing and use that equity to purchase land.

If you are just refinancing to a lower fixed rate mortgage, then absolutely that is the right thing to do. My only point is that I personally would not pull equity out of my house to buy land unless the plan is to build a home on that land and live on it.

I want cash for the transition period from a fiat backed currency to whatever we transition into. As we go from deflation to inflation to hyperinflation, cash will be worth less and less.

I think now is the time to eliminate debt; have cash-on-hand and buy physical gold and silver. My strategy is all based on a reset where all fiat backed assets will be significantly reduced in value.

If I am wrong and there is not a reset, I'll sell all my gold and silver and buy a weekend house on Cape Cod.
 
Maybe I'm not clear on what you are doing. I thought you were going to pull equity out of your house via refinancing and use that equity to purchase land.

If you are just refinancing to a lower fixed rate mortgage, then absolutely that is the right thing to do. My only point is that I personally would not pull equity out of my house to buy land unless the plan is to build a home on that land and live on it.

I want cash for the transition period from a fiat backed currency to whatever we transition into. As we go from deflation to inflation to hyperinflation, cash will be worth less and less.

I think now is the time to eliminate debt; have cash-on-hand and buy physical gold and silver. My strategy is all based on a reset where all fiat backed assets will be significantly reduced in value.

If I am wrong and there is not a reset, I'll sell all my gold and silver and buy a weekend house on Cape Cod.
Land speculation! What can go wrong? :)
 
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Maybe I'm not clear on what you are doing. I thought you were going to pull equity out of your house via refinancing and use that equity to purchase land.

If you are just refinancing to a lower fixed rate mortgage, then absolutely that is the right thing to do. My only point is that I personally would not pull equity out of my house to buy land unless the plan is to build a home on that land and live on it.

I want cash for the transition period from a fiat backed currency to whatever we transition into. As we go from deflation to inflation to hyperinflation, cash will be worth less and less.

I think now is the time to eliminate debt; have cash-on-hand and buy physical gold and silver. My strategy is all based on a reset where all fiat backed assets will be significantly reduced in value.

If I am wrong and there is not a reset, I'll sell all my gold and silver and buy a weekend house on Cape Cod.
No you had me right.

And maybe my thinking is off, thus I do value these discussions.

But why would it be a good idea to eliminate dept right now?

If I take out a 200K loan at a super low fixed 3%,immediately invest in a physical property which via inflation alone (never mind demand) will increase in dollar value, and also via inflation that 200K I owe is going to be much easier to pay off , am I not doing very well in that deal?
 
SRNE having a nice run
I did mention it a couple weeks back after a dip.

Bought a little bit at that time. Sold half at 100% increase(which I regret and if I was quicker would have bought back in that same day as it dipped immediately after) and then sold my other half about a half hour ago. We will see if I regret that one as well.

Overall I killed it.

If it dips tomorrow I will buy back in.
 
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No you had me right.

And maybe my thinking is off, thus I do value these discussions.

But why would it be a good idea to eliminate dept right now?

If I take out a 200K loan at a super low fixed 3%,immediately invest in a physical property which via inflation alone (never mind demand) will increase in dollar value, and also via inflation that 200K I owe is going to be much easier to pay off , am I not doing very well in that deal?

Your assumption that all assets appreciate in an inflationary environment is not supported by historical evidence. I also think it’s helpful before levering up to make a speculative purchase of an asset you expect to increase in value because of assumed migration patterns to ask, “ Who doesn’t know that?” That question will unearth a lot of logical fallacies, because if the drivers you identify are truly present, the seller of the asset will also know of them and the price you pay will consider such items.

http://csinvesting.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Inflation-Swindles-the-Equity-Investor.pdf
 
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Your assumption that all assets appreciate in an inflationary environment is not supported by historical evidence. I also think it’s helpful before levering up to make a speculative purchase of an asset you expect to increase in value because of assumed migration patterns to ask, “ Who doesn’t know that?” That question will unearth a lot of logical fallacies, because if the drivers you identify are truly present, the seller of the asset will also know of them and the price you pay will consider such items.

http://csinvesting.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Inflation-Swindles-the-Equity-Investor.pdf

1)People get in early on things all the time. People often get it wrong too. The question is are we in the position of the former or the latter?

2)As per inflation and it's impact on the equity market, are we not seeing that very impact right now? The price of equities being driven up because of an influx of capital? The market is often said to be forward looking, is this not a prime example of that?
 
1)People get in early on things all the time. People often get it wrong too. The question is are we in the position of the former or the latter?

2)As per inflation and it's impact on the equity market, are we not seeing that very impact right now? The price of equities being driven up because of an influx of capital? The market is often said to be forward looking, is this not a prime example of that?

As to 1, the question is whether your probability assessment of the land value is better than the current owner, and whether the additional risk you rake on by aggressively financing said purchase is prudent. It very well could work out (bad process does result in good outcomes from time to time) but the process you’re using is more akin to an oil wildcatter than a sober investor.

For 2, the driver of equity market returns has more to do with suppression of rates than inflation expectations. While I don’t want to speak for him, that’s what @albanyknight was alluding to when he mentioned that very little time has been spent discussing bond yields. Bond yields are the gravity that governs the valuation of risk asset classes.
 
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As to 1, the question is whether your probability assessment of the land value is better than the current owner, and whether the additional risk you rake on by aggressively financing said purchase is prudent. It very well could work out (bad process does result in good outcomes from time to time) but the process you’re using is more akin to an oil wildcatter than a sober investor.

For 2, the driver of equity market returns has more to do with suppression of rates than inflation expectations. While I don’t want to speak for him, that’s what @albanyknight was alluding to when he mentioned that very little time has been spent discussing bond yields. Bond yields are the gravity that governs the valuation of risk asset classes.
1)Am I a wild catter if I get a loan at 3%? Aside from the value of the land tanking, what is my risk there? Do you really think that risk is high that the value of the land(or structure) would tank?

2)We've certainly discussed that that the equities market is the only decent potential for return at the moment and thus a lot of money has flowed there. But it is hard to deny that there is an influx of new investors in the market. How much of that is driven by the $1200 stimulus, or the $600 extra unemployment insurance? I'd say a pretty decent amount.
 
1)Am I a wild catter if I get a loan at 3%? Aside from the value of the land tanking, what is my risk there? Do you really think that risk is high that the value of the land(or structure) would tank?

2)We've certainly discussed that that the equities market is the only decent potential for return at the moment and thus a lot of money has flowed there. But it is hard to deny that there is an influx of new investors in the market. How much of that is driven by the $1200 stimulus, or the $600 extra unemployment insurance? I'd say a pretty decent amount.

You are a wildcatter not because of how you finance the purchase, but rather because of the selection of asset. You do layer on risk as a result of the choice of debt. The cost of the debt, while perhaps attractive doesn’t change either basic principle.

It is incorrect to say that the domestic equity market is the only liquid asset class offering the potential for good returns (I actually think you are likely to earn very meager returns from domestic stocks over the next decade). Fixed income may offer relatively low coupons, but price appreciation could certainly occur if rates fell further. Could they? Well, we just had an annualized GDP decline in excess of 30%. Of course they could.
 
You are a wildcatter not because of how you finance the purchase, but rather because of the selection of asset. You do layer on risk as a result of the choice of debt. The cost of the debt, while perhaps attractive doesn’t change either basic principle.

It is incorrect to say that the domestic equity market is the only liquid asset class offering the potential for good returns (I actually think you are likely to earn very meager returns from domestic stocks over the next decade). Fixed income may offer relatively low coupons, but price appreciation could certainly occur if rates fell further. Could they? Well, we just had an annualized GDP decline in excess of 30%. Of course they could.
1)But is real estate an unusual area of investment? I'm not drilling for a hoping for oil here. I'm looking at a very cheap loan to buy an asset that historically goes up very consistently.

2)Aight let's agree equities is not the only area for promising investment at the moment. But you are asserting above that it is the suppression of rates, and not the influx of new moneys, that is driving the rise in the equities market. I'm seeing a contradiction of ideas here. What ultimately do you think is driving the market right now?
 
I took a large stake in Alibaba, as per diversifying my portfolio. It was rated highly by everyone. Bad timing. I did not know Trump was going after China through the equity markets. Most of the large US equity groups have large stakes in Alibaba, so i am only a little worried. I think this is only a negotiating tactic. I am staying the course. Anyone have a different opinion?
 
I took a large stake in Alibaba, as per diversifying my portfolio. It was rated highly by everyone. Bad timing. I did not know Trump was going after China through the equity markets. Most of the large US equity groups have large stakes in Alibaba, so i am only a little worried. I think this is only a negotiating tactic. I am staying the course. Anyone have a different opinion?

Spread the risk. VWO and VEMAX.
 
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1)But is real estate an unusual area of investment? I'm not drilling for a hoping for oil here. I'm looking at a very cheap loan to buy an asset that historically goes up very consistently.

2)Aight let's agree equities is not the only area for promising investment at the moment. But you are asserting above that it is the suppression of rates, and not the influx of new moneys, that is driving the rise in the equities market. I'm seeing a contradiction of ideas here. What ultimately do you think is driving the market right now?

Unusual isn’t really the standard. Land speculation isn’t uncommon, but that doesn’t mean it is without significant idiosyncratic risk.

The suppression of rates has led to further allocation to equities, but lower rates also increases the price of fixed income investments (credit risk aside). There is no contradiction. I’d also note that I don’t necessarily agree that domestic equities are a promising area for investment at current levels in this environment.
 
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In the late 90's until the tech collapse, many "investors" who had little to no experience or knowledge made out-sized returns "day trading". Some even quit their jobs because they thought they were good at it and had the profits to prove it. Then the correction hit. I haven't seen/heard of so many people thinking that they know more than the market since then. They will be punished. Question of when not if.
 
In the late 90's until the tech collapse, many "investors" who had little to no experience or knowledge made out-sized returns "day trading". Some even quit their jobs because they thought they were good at it and had the profits to prove it. Then the correction hit. I haven't seen/heard of so many people thinking that they know more than the market since then. They will be punished. Question of when not if.

One sign of a bubble, maybe the most important part, is investor psychology. I’ve not seen such behavior since 1999. When the “equity” prices of companies that filed for Chapter 11 rises substantially despite the near certainty of a 100% impairment, I’m not sure how else to describe it.

Despite a horrific economic backdrop, we are seeing the fear of missing out on returns outweighing the fear of loss.
 
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Yes, those buying Hertz based on basically nothing had me amazed. The bondholders will take a big hit there yet speculators were buying the equity. Made zero sense.
 
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DOW nearing all time levels. Wow![
28,000 +

S & P new records.

IT"S A "V" recovery baby !

AoC gets time at Demorat convention, serves latte and tea.

/QUOTE]

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05 - Sorry I was away yesterday and missed your back and forth with @Frida'sBoss. He covered most of the points. I would only add that if there is to be a reset, then the value of the dollar will go way, way down. The historical re-valuation is 1,000:1. Meaning if you have $10,000 in the bank after a reset you will have $10.00.

But most people feel that personal debt will not be forgiven, just the national debt and possible corporate debt. So you may be stuck with a parcel of land that you financed at 3% but significantly reduced financial means to pay that debt.

But most of all, I am just personally against running up any debt, regardless of the interest rate in such uncertain times. You have to ask yourself why so many different sectors of the economy are offering 0% debt in the first place. In a strong economy, this would not be happening.
 
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