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OT: Stock and Investment Talk

The passive segment of the asset management industry has done a great job of convincing everyone that active management is suboptimal, and I’d say the vast majority of people should abstain from trying to actively manage their own holdings.

However, there are several issues with the blanket assumption that no one, or very few, can outperform the market because the vast majority of professional managers fail to do so. Those issues pertain to the constraints faced by professional managers that are not necessarily faced by those managing smaller amounts of money.

Before delving into those issues, however, it should be said that if you are unable to value a company and understand its financial statements (including the footnotes), you shouldn’t invest in individual stocks. Better to devote time to other areas of life and enjoy the average returns offered by indexing.

Those who can assess valuation, however, and are “blessed” with having a smaller amount of money to invest have some powerful advantages over professional managers. First, the universe of available investments is far, far larger. Most professional managers have a limited universe of investable securities because they cannot deploy enough capital in smaller issues without severely damaging the liquidity of that stock, but more importantly, they can’t deploy enough money to make it worth their while. The larger number of informed investors looking at a finite universe of stocks will make it relatively more efficient than a group of stocks that are not pored over by professional analysts. Hunt where there are game and where relatively few expert hunters are able to go.

Second, professional fund managers generally must adhere to diversification rules forcing them to invest in far more stocks than necessary or desirable to achieve a prudent level of risk mitigation. That means they must make far more decisions, and more decisions equals fewer good decisions. In essence, investing can be like poker. Most of the time, do nothing, until a high probability hand drops in your lap. Then, you must take advantage and not simply invest 2% of your funds. Professional fund managers (and I’m speaking mostly of mutual funds, but also larger hedge funds) can’t do that.

Third, volatility kills asset management businesses. Large moves down can lead to withdrawals, which equals less AUM to earn management fees upon. The reality is outperformance over longer periods necessarily means larger price volatility, since a portfolio with fewer but higher conviction investments tends to move more than a more diverse portfolio that looks like an index. If you want a result that is better than average, you must do something that is different than the averages. In my view, this requires an unusual amount of emotional stability and is probably the greatest reason why many individual investors are unable to outperform.

Summed up, an investor with a comparatively small amount of capital without the demands of the asset management business has access to a broader array of investments and does not have to make as many correct decisions, which are basically predictions about the future, to do better than average. This assumes this person can assess a business and value it conservatively. Following those tools can take a small pool of money and make it large, where you would start to face the constraints borne by larger fund managers. But by then, you’d be rich, so who cares?
Insightful thoughts. By the way, where is the line between passive and active management? I never get involved with individual stocks, but I do adjust and manage my allocations quite often (whether indexes or funds). Am I passive or active or is there a third term to describe this type of investing? Just curious.
 
Insightful thoughts. By the way, where is the line between passive and active management? I never get involved with individual stocks, but I do adjust and manage my allocations quite often (whether indexes or funds). Am I passive or active or is there a third term to describe this type of investing? Just curious.
You're actively passive :)
 
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Insightful thoughts. By the way, where is the line between passive and active management? I never get involved with individual stocks, but I do adjust and manage my allocations quite often (whether indexes or funds). Am I passive or active or is there a third term to describe this type of investing? Just curious.

On a continuum of passive to active, you’re still far closer to 100% passive than even 50-50.
 
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Insightful thoughts. By the way, where is the line between passive and active management? I never get involved with individual stocks, but I do adjust and manage my allocations quite often (whether indexes or funds). Am I passive or active or is there a third term to describe this type of investing? Just curious.
What percent of your assets are in index funds or CDs and what percent in actively managed funds? Other investments or asset classes? That would factor into where you are on the spectrum.
 
Insightful thoughts. By the way, where is the line between passive and active management? I never get involved with individual stocks, but I do adjust and manage my allocations quite often (whether indexes or funds). Am I passive or active or is there a third term to describe this type of investing? Just curious.
When you make no over or under weights on sectors or individual securities within say the S&P 500, you are being passive.
The converse is also true: when your book has different sector and security weights than the index, you re being active.
Also applies to so called factor investing, where investment professionals disaggregate returns by particular factors e.g. volatility, high P/E and over or under emphasize a particular factor. Wonderful marketing concept as long as you can time when a particular factor will over/ under perform.
courtesy of a PSU fan
 
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What percent of your assets are in index funds or CDs and what percent in actively managed funds? Other investments or asset classes? That would factor into where you are on the spectrum.
Here is a good estimate:

My asset allocation (not including home equity):

24% cash
76% investments

We divide our financial savings into 2 parts with separate objectives (cash & investment/retirement). We like to have a large rainy day fund, but much of our cash is in prep for a shore home.

As for our investments (so the 76%):
Large US index - 30% (mostly S&P, but some Russell 1000 indexes)
Large US growth - 30% (index and managed funds - IWF, FDGRX, TRBCX)
Mid/small cap - 15% (getting back into this more over the past few months, mostly indexes)
International - 5% (greatly reduced this over the past 3-4 years, started getting back into VWIGX)
Bond/Income funds - 15% (mostly BIV or DODIX)
MISC (REITs, Hedges, Alternatives) - 5% (mostly part of our backdoor Roth IRAs)
No individual stocks

Thoughts?

@Frida's Boss
@RU-05
And everyone else.
 
Here is a good estimate:

My asset allocation (not including home equity):

24% cash
76% investments

We divide our financial savings into 2 parts with separate objectives (cash & investment/retirement). We like to have a large rainy day fund, but much of our cash is in prep for a shore home.

As for our investments (so the 76%):
Large US index - 30% (mostly S&P, but some Russell 1000 indexes)
Large US growth - 30% (index and managed funds - IWF, FDGRX, TRBCX)
Mid/small cap - 15% (getting back into this more over the past few months, mostly indexes)
International - 5% (greatly reduced this over the past 3-4 years, started getting back into VWIGX)
Bond/Income funds - 15% (mostly BIV or DODIX)
MISC (REITs, Hedges, Alternatives) - 5% (mostly part of our backdoor Roth IRAs)
No individual stocks

Thoughts?

@Frida's Boss
@RU-05
And everyone else.

You have no debt, a great job and a lot of cash. You are fine and it doesn't much matter what your allocation is as long as you don't have some crazy 100% risk play . For you it is all a simple equation of how good am I going to have it and how much can I leave to my kid.
 
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You're actively passive :)
Here is a good estimate:

My asset allocation (not including home equity):

24% cash
76% investments

We divide our financial savings into 2 parts with separate objectives (cash & investment/retirement). We like to have a large rainy day fund, but much of our cash is in prep for a shore home.

As for our investments (so the 76%):
Large US index - 30% (mostly S&P, but some Russell 1000 indexes)
Large US growth - 30% (index and managed funds - IWF, FDGRX, TRBCX)
Mid/small cap - 15% (getting back into this more over the past few months, mostly indexes)g
International - 5% (greatly reduced this over the past 3-4 years, started getting back into VWIGX)
Bond/Income funds - 15% (mostly BIV or DODIX)
MISC (REITs, Hedges, Alternatives) - 5% (mostly part of our backdoor Roth IRAs)
No individual stocks

Thoughts?

@Frida's Boss
@RU-05
And everyone else.
I'm about 17% cash, 83% stocks.

I'm all stocks. Looking at my e-trade analysis link, I'm 50% large cap. 33% small-mid cap. 10% international. 9% in "other"(GBTC, DPC, NEP, maybe these are not "stocks" ?).

Maybe down the road, when things get more normal, I go more funds, maybe I go more bonds, but right now I'm enjoying picking stocks, and doing very well with it.

Very much considering refinancing my house, taking out cash and buying a property somewhere in the Rockies, but I need to tighten some things up first.
 
Here is a good estimate:

My asset allocation (not including home equity):

24% cash
76% investments

We divide our financial savings into 2 parts with separate objectives (cash & investment/retirement). We like to have a large rainy day fund, but much of our cash is in prep for a shore home.

As for our investments (so the 76%):
Large US index - 30% (mostly S&P, but some Russell 1000 indexes)
Large US growth - 30% (index and managed funds - IWF, FDGRX, TRBCX)
Mid/small cap - 15% (getting back into this more over the past few months, mostly indexes)
International - 5% (greatly reduced this over the past 3-4 years, started getting back into VWIGX)
Bond/Income funds - 15% (mostly BIV or DODIX)
MISC (REITs, Hedges, Alternatives) - 5% (mostly part of our backdoor Roth IRAs)
No individual stocks

Thoughts?

@Frida's Boss
@RU-05
And everyone else.


In my opinion you have a fine asset allocation, assuming it meets your risk tolerance and expected expenditures such as your shore house. Great job! A few minor comments: probably some overlap in large growth active and large growth index but I think that’s fine; the Fidelity and TRP funds have expense ratios a bit higher than I like but not outrageous at all.; with Roth you’re already paid taxes so you don’t want a loss there—I might put the growth funds there; have your more tax efficient funds in taxable accounts and less tax efficient in tax deferred (traditional IRA). I have no problem with not having individual equities, I have about 15% in that category but most have been held a long time and have significant unrealized capital gains that I’ll leave for the kids with a stepped up basis (assuming the tax laws don’t change...

It’s a good idea to look at each fund and compare it to its benchmark net of expenses to be sure performance is good relative to those benchmarks.

Again, looks like a great job to me!
 
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So I think I have heard Guy Adami express this sentiment before but:

As a stock is climbing, and the volume of trading for that stock raises dramatically, on a day when the price levels off and the volume is very high, that is a signal that it is about to drop correct?

Looking at PLTR, and that stock's recent run is def following that pattern.
 
You have no debt, a great job and a lot of cash. You are fine and it doesn't much matter what your allocation is as long as you don't have some crazy 100% risk play . For you it is all a simple equation of how good am I going to have it and how much can I leave to my kid.
Very true. We have been relatively conservative because the brute force of our saving will get us where we want to be (and likely well beyond this). No debt is also key!
 
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I'm about 17% cash, 83% stocks.

I'm all stocks. Looking at my e-trade analysis link, I'm 50% large cap. 33% small-mid cap. 10% international. 9% in "other"(GBTC, DPC, NEP, maybe these are not "stocks" ?).

Maybe down the road, when things get more normal, I go more funds, maybe I go more bonds, but right now I'm enjoying picking stocks, and doing very well with it.

Very much considering refinancing my house, taking out cash and buying a property somewhere in the Rockies, but I need to tighten some things up first.
Definitely check out some funds. FDGRX is +61% YTD. I've been in this fund for the past 5 years (about 10% of my entire investment portfolio). Also, love e-trade. We use this for our brokerage account (which I play with often).

As for houses, pay off #1 then buy #2 with cash! :)
This is hard to do in Stone Harbor (decent houses start at $1.5m and go to $2.5m very quickly).
 
In my opinion you have a fine asset allocation, assuming it meets your risk tolerance and expected expenditures such as your shore house. Great job! A few minor comments: probably some overlap in large growth active and large growth index but I think that’s fine; the Fidelity and TRP funds have expense ratios a bit higher than I like but not outrageous at all.; with Roth you’re already paid taxes so you don’t want a loss there—I might put the growth funds there; have your more tax efficient funds in taxable accounts and less tax efficient in tax deferred (traditional IRA). I have no problem with not having individual equities, I have about 15% in that category but most have been held a long time and have significant unrealized capital gains that I’ll leave for the kids with a stepped up basis (assuming the tax laws don’t change...

Again, looks like a great job to me!

Sometimes a little bit of higher expense ratios are worth it. I've been in the TRP New Horizons Fund (now closed for 10-12 years) for 25 years. Average annual return over that quarter century (which includes boom times, the tech meltdown, the Great Recession and Covid) is 13.9%
 
So I think I have heard Guy Adami express this sentiment before but:

As a stock is climbing, and the volume of trading for that stock raises dramatically, on a day when the price levels off and the volume is very high, that is a signal that it is about to drop correct?

Looking at PLTR, and that stock's recent run is def following that pattern.
That, and Morgan Stanley just downgraded PLTR, accounting for some its loss today.
 
Sometimes a little bit of higher expense ratios are worth it. I've been in the TRP New Horizons Fund (now closed for 10-12 years) for 25 years. Average annual return over that quarter century (which includes boom times, the tech meltdown, the Great Recession and Covid) is 13.9%

Yes, good point. A bit higher fee is okay if performance net of fees compares favorably with its benchmark.
 
Sometimes a little bit of higher expense ratios are worth it. I've been in the TRP New Horizons Fund (now closed for 10-12 years) for 25 years. Average annual return over that quarter century (which includes boom times, the tech meltdown, the Great Recession and Covid) is 13.9%
+1
I really like ultra-low cost indexes, but FDGRX, TRBCX, and VWIGX are crushing it, so they are worth those higher ratios (at least for now).
 
In my opinion you have a fine asset allocation, assuming it meets your risk tolerance and expected expenditures such as your shore house. Great job! A few minor comments: probably some overlap in large growth active and large growth index but I think that’s fine; the Fidelity and TRP funds have expense ratios a bit higher than I like but not outrageous at all.; with Roth you’re already paid taxes so you don’t want a loss there—I might put the growth funds there; have your more tax efficient funds in taxable accounts and less tax efficient in tax deferred (traditional IRA). I have no problem with not having individual equities, I have about 15% in that category but most have been held a long time and have significant unrealized capital gains that I’ll leave for the kids with a stepped up basis (assuming the tax laws don’t change...

It’s a good idea to look at each fund and compare it to its benchmark net of expenses to be sure performance is good relative to those benchmarks.

Again, looks like a great job to me!
Good stuff! Funny you mentioned this (highlighted). I would like to reduce our position in IWF, but it's in our brokerage account and selling would cause significant tax consequences (huge returns over the past several years).
 
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Good stuff! Funny you mentioned this (highlighted). I would like to reduce our position in IWF, but it's in our brokerage account and selling would cause significant tax consequences (huge returns over the past several years).

Good problem to have in that you made money so would have to pay taxes on a significant gain. I try not to let the tax tale wag the dog but I am mindful of tax issues and do focus some on asset location. I’ve got some equities ( MSFT, AMGN, some others) that I’ve held a position in for decades, after taking some profit, that I won’t sell unless I have to or unless a sense an adverse fundamental change in the companies. They’ll go to the kids, hopefully.
 
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Good problem to have in that you made money so would have to pay taxes on a significant gain. I try not to let the tax tale wag the dog but I am mindful of tax issues and do focus some on asset location. I’ve got some equities ( MSFT, AMGN, some others) that I’ve held a position in for decades, after taking some profit, that I won’t sell unless I have to or unless a sense an adverse fundamental change in the companies. They’ll go to the kids, hopefully.
+1
I will at least wait until Jan to trim some IWF. :)
 

As for houses, pay off #1 then buy #2 with cash! :)

This is hard to do in Stone Harbor (decent houses start at $1.5m and go to $2.5m very quickly).

I'm of the opinion that I'd rather expand my dept in an environment of low rates and pending inflation. As long as I can immediately invest that money.

Also my current monthly is very affordable, and any refinance would keep that payment at the current level.
 
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather expand my dept in an environment of low rates and pending inflation. As long as I can immediately invest that money.

Also my current monthly is very affordable, and any refinance would keep that payment at the current level.

Quick story: back in the ‘90s I had a debate with a friend who thought I was crazy to pay off my mortgage when market returns were so strong. Long story short, he leveraged up and when the market turned, he went bankrupt. I’m not saying this will happen or trying to talk you into anything but just be aware that the market since March 23 is atypical. I do agree, though, that interest rates are very low and it’s a good time to get a mortgage if you’re in the market and can afford whatever you’re doing with some cushion. Good luck!
 
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Definitely check out some funds. FDGRX is +61% YTD. I've been in this fund for the past 5 years (about 10% of my entire investment portfolio). Also, love e-trade. We use this for our brokerage account (which I play with often).

As for houses, pay off #1 then buy #2 with cash! :)
This is hard to do in Stone Harbor (decent houses start at $1.5m and go to $2.5m very quickly).
Just looked it up. 41% YTD.

Hard to compare given I got in late March-into April, but I'm beating that. I'm beating it pretty soundly over the last couple months as it has trended downward over that time.

But maybe in time I'll start looking into funds as the markets return more to normal.
 
Quick story: back in the ‘90s I had a debate with a friend who thought I was crazy to pay off my mortgage when market returns were so strong. Long story short, he leveraged up and when the market turned, he went bankrupt. I’m not saying this will happen or trying to talk you into anything but just be aware that the market since March 23 is atypical. I do agree, though, that interest rates are very low and it’s a good time to get a mortgage if you’re in the market and can afford whatever you’re doing with some cushion. Good luck!
Ya thanks. For sure, be smart, but as I mention in a post above i'd invest in land somewhere, not stocks.

Right now I'm 4 years into my mortgage at 4.125%. I can refinance at about 3%, take out $50K, at the same monthly. So it's a basically a $50K interest free loan that I don't have to start paying until 2046.

I was reluctant to refinance again, but given the above, how can I not?
 
Just looked it up. 41% YTD.

Hard to compare given I got in late March-into April, but I'm beating that. I'm beating it pretty soundly over the last couple months as it has trended downward over that time.

But maybe in time I'll start looking into funds as the markets return more to normal.
That's off, check this out (+62% YTD)

I actually have FGCKX (via 401k) not FDGRX, but the return is essentially the same.
 
Ya thanks. For sure, be smart, but as I mention in a post above i'd invest in land somewhere, not stocks.

Right now I'm 4 years into my mortgage at 4.125%. I can refinance at about 3%, take out $50K, at the same monthly. So it's a basically a $50K interest free loan that I don't have to start paying until 2046.

I was reluctant to refinance again, but given the above, how can I not?
Sounds like a plan.quick addition, the guy who went under leveraged into stocks as well as AZ real estate on a golf course. Don’t forget, real estate isn’t a sure thing either.
 
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Quick story: back in the ‘90s I had a debate with a friend who thought I was crazy to pay off my mortgage when market returns were so strong. Long story short, he leveraged up and when the market turned, he went bankrupt. I’m not saying this will happen or trying to talk you into anything but just be aware that the market since March 23 is atypical. I do agree, though, that interest rates are very low and it’s a good time to get a mortgage if you’re in the market and can afford whatever you’re doing with some cushion. Good luck!

Actually the mistake in that story is "leveraged up"
 
Ya thanks. For sure, be smart, but as I mention in a post above i'd invest in land somewhere, not stocks.

Right now I'm 4 years into my mortgage at 4.125%. I can refinance at about 3%, take out $50K, at the same monthly. So it's a basically a $50K interest free loan that I don't have to start paying until 2046.

I was reluctant to refinance again, but given the above, how can I not?

Beware of the deductibility (or lack thereof) of amounts over what's refinanced unless used for home improvements post 2017
 
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That's off, check this out (+62% YTD)

I actually have FGCKX (via 401k) not FDGRX, but the return is essentially the same.
For FDGRX it's 41%. As you say FGCKX is up 62% ytd.

Nice bait and switch though. 👍

Still FGCKX has slowed since early Sept. But I'll keep an eye on them and compare.
 
One of the options for those who have enough wealth is to refinance since up to 750k of mortgage interest is fully deductible and only 10k of property tax is deductible. that's what we did and used the cash out for some safe alternative investments that are returning 5-6% while increasing my mortgage deduction without significantly increasing my monthly mortgage payment. This is obviously not a strategy for all folks.
 
For FDGRX it's 41%. As you say FGCKX is up 62% ytd.

Nice bait and switch though. 👍

Still FGCKX has slowed since early Sept. But I'll keep an eye on them and compare.
FDGRX also up 62% YTD (pretty much same fund, different classes):

 
Good problem to have in that you made money so would have to pay taxes on a significant gain. I try not to let the tax tale wag the dog but I am mindful of tax issues and do focus some on asset location. I’ve got some equities ( MSFT, AMGN, some others) that I’ve held a position in for decades, after taking some profit, that I won’t sell unless I have to or unless a sense an adverse fundamental change in the companies. They’ll go to the kids, hopefully.


I made that error once. Kept a very aggressive fund I had invested for my daughter because if I sold it I would have had to pay taxes at my rate and not my daughters rate. I figured I would wait a few years until my daughter reached the age where the rate was based on her income.

Welcome the Nasdaq crash
 
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On the Fast Money halftime report they were talking about the bubble that may or may not exist in tech. The panel did seem to be in agreement that there were some stocks, like SNOW, which were way overpriced. They debated some others, like ZM, and DOCU, and there were was some mixed thoughts on them.

But Joe Terranova pointed out that though there are overpriced stocks, this isn't quite a bubble, at least it's a bubble unlike the dot.com bubble, because this time there are established tech stocks, like Apple, FB, Microsoft etc, which investors can retreat to if those super high valuation stocks were to pop.

Now this is just one opinion, and there are many, and they often conflict, but an opinion that I think has a very strong basis.
 
I made that error once. Kept a very aggressive fund I had invested for my daughter because if I sold it I would have had to pay taxes at my rate and not my daughters rate. I figured I would wait a few years until my daughter reached the age where the rate was based on her income.

Welcome the Nasdaq crash

One way to deal with that is to hedge by selling some, and then holding onto other shares. This way you lock in profit but hope for more down the road. It keeps you from kicking yourself in different scenarios.
 
One way to deal with that is to hedge by selling some, and then holding onto other shares. This way you lock in profit but hope for more down the road. It keeps you from kicking yourself in different scenarios.

I was greedy and got what I deserved.
You are correct take some profits when you have extraordinary returns. If I recall correctly I was averaging over 30% returns a year for over 8 years.
 
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CRWD beats on earnings, up 9% early in extended.

Was wary of this one, thought about selling a bit prior to closing.
 
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