ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Stock and Investment Talk

Serious question: Can you even name 5 people who use crypto currencies in the manner you describe?
As a currency, no I can't. As to the other points, I know a lot more than 5 people personally that are invested for the other uses mentioned. I also know that some legacy institutions that are much more intelligent and savvy than me are also dipping their toe(s), feet and in some case their whole leg.
 
As a currency, no I can't. As to the other points, I know a lot more than 5 people personally that are invested for the other uses mentioned. I also know that some legacy institutions that are much more intelligent and savvy than me are also dipping their toe(s), feet and in some case their whole leg.
I understand that.

But everyone who has bought into crypto keeps telling me what a great form of payment it is, but literally no one I know actually uses it as such.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking
I understand that.

But everyone who has bought into crypto keeps telling me what a great form of payment it is, but literally no one I know actually uses it as such.
If that was its one and only use, I wouldn't have gotten involved.
 
You should definitely listen to Frida. He's the real deal and has been investing well before this March (to say the least). The most important thing for you to remember (and all of us) is that what is working now in this raging tech/growth bull market isn't going to be what works when the market goes back to normal or becomes bearish.

Now, I do think the party will continue in 2021 for the reasons I have mention numerous times, but planning for the winds to change is something we all must do.
Listening is a very important aspect of discussion, and I do see this as a discussion, so I'm listening.

As per raging tech. I do have a few hot running tech positions still, I also have a few solar/lithium/weed positions, which have done great, but I've rotated a considerable amount already. Moving towards banks, reopening's, gold/silver miners.
 
Serious question: Can you even name 5 people who use crypto currencies in the manner you describe?
I'm taking his word for it, but @ScarletNut did note that in certain countries it has become a commonly used form of currency. I might not know any of those people but it did sound like a lot of people were using it. And in countries like Venezuela where their currencies have tanked, that does make sense.

I wonder if(very much hypothesizing here), as an extension of that, if Bitcoin or Crypto ever becomes more stable, it will be a way for people of other countries to tie themselves to the dollar?
 
BRK.B in early 2018, traded as high as $210. Currently at $231. 10% gain in 3 years.

I know they bought GOLD, GE, SNOW, TMUS, a bunch of pharma (PFE, MRK ABBV BMY) big on BAC.

Have they lost their way, or are they poised for a breakout?
 
BRK.B in early 2018, traded as high as $210. Currently at $231. 10% gain in 3 years.

I know they bought GOLD, GE, SNOW, TMUS, a bunch of pharma (PFE, MRK ABBV BMY) big on BAC.

Have they lost their way, or are they poised for a breakout?

At best, BRK will earn a return slightly better than the indices. That said, I do think the risk of the enterprise is comparatively low. It is too big a company to meaningfully outperform with standard investments, and really needs to spend its cash pile on either large, aggressive share repurchases or, preferably, to acquire large businesses. This was a year you’d typically expect WEB to have been aggressive. They were not. Speaks to his views on the severity of risk posed by COVID.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking
Listening is a very important aspect of discussion, and I do see this as a discussion, so I'm listening.

As per raging tech. I do have a few hot running tech positions still, I also have a few solar/lithium/weed positions, which have done great, but I've rotated a considerable amount already. Moving towards banks, reopening's, gold/silver miners.
Pharma/biotech should have a very good 2021. I jumped a bit into T. Rowe Price Health Sciences (PRHSX) to see how it goes. The big boys should do well, but the smaller companies is where you can make a lot of money, if you know the industry well. However, it is home run or strikeout.....seriously. If a clinical trials goes wrong, some of these companies will literally cease to exist! Go big or go home.

😁
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking
Pharma/biotech should have a very good 2021. I jumped a bit into T. Rowe Price Health Sciences (PRHSX) to see how it goes. The big boys should do well, but the smaller companies is where you can make a lot of money, if you know the industry well. However, it is home run or strikeout.....seriously. If a clinical trials goes wrong, some of these companies will literally cease to exist! Go big or go home.

😁
Ya as much as I like the home run plays like lithium or cannabis those stories seem pretty clear to me. And I don't need to pick a winner, the entire sector of each is going to do well.

Small Pharma? The vision based on a drug for who knows what proving efficacy? I have no idea what I am looking at.
 
Last edited:
2020 returns as of 12/30:

Composite return = +19.5%

Based on a weighted average of our 7 retirement accounts (doesn't include our cash/CDs or daughter's 529). Top performing account came in at 34.6% based on the power of FGCKX (Fidelity Growth Company K). Our low was 12.8% for our new/current 401k account (I moved companies in late 2019). Played it too safe with this account for the first half of 2020 and couldn't catch up to the S&P 500. This account has great index options, but very light on the managed funds.

Overall, pretty happy. Stayed cool during the corona crash and made a few good pivots throughout the year. Onwards to 2021!!!!!

That type of return in a year like 2020 may or may not get you a small house in Stone Harbor but definitely won’t get you into the tres commas club. In a year like 2020, rate of return should be 55-65 %. It is all about setting up your future generations for eternity.
 
That type of return in a year like 2020 may or may not get you a small house in Stone Harbor but definitely won’t get you into the tres commas club. In a year like 2020, rate of return should be 55-65 %. It is all about setting up your future generations for eternity.
Just my opinion but getting a return like 55%-65% in 2020 likely means you have an investment policy/strategy that assumes a high risk tolerance. That, in turn, sets yourself up for a comparable decline in bear markets, unless you are better at market timing than 99.9% of investment professionals and investors. If you look at mutual fund managers, hedge fund managers, endowment managers, PE, etc., you typically see big swings for those attempting to significantly beat the market as defined by their benchmark indices. You might be skillful or lucky enough to beat your relative index some years but over a 10, 20,or 30 year period it really doesn’t happen very often—at least not substantially.

Speaking for myself, I do have index funds, actively managed funds, and individual equities. Having been through ‘87, dot.com, 2008-9, COVID, I’ve seen euphoria and the sometimes ugly aftermath. Having said that, good luck to all in whatever investment strategy they pursue!
 
Anyone looking for a pullback from SNOW, this might be your chance.

Down 25% from it's all time highs set earlier this month. Bringing it back to a more reasonable 170x price to sales.
 
Just my opinion but getting a return like 55%-65% in 2020 likely means you have an investment policy/strategy that assumes a high risk tolerance. That, in turn, sets yourself up for a comparable decline in bear markets, unless you are better at market timing than 99.9% of investment professionals and investors. If you look at mutual fund managers, hedge fund managers, endowment managers, PE, etc., you typically see big swings for those attempting to significantly beat the market as defined by their benchmark indices. You might be skillful or lucky enough to beat your relative index some years but over a 10, 20,or 30 year period it really doesn’t happen very often—at least not substantially.

Speaking for myself, I do have index funds, actively managed funds, and individual equities. Having been through ‘87, dot.com, 2008-9, COVID, I’ve seen euphoria and the sometimes ugly aftermath. Having said that, good luck to all in whatever investment strategy they pursue!
+1
All we need to do is average a 7.5% return and our aggressive retirement goals are met. Sure, more is better and I will be working hard to beat the S&P each year. However, I don't need to be too risky. Managed and index funds for us! The only individual stock that I care about is my company's.....since our LTI plan is based on RSUs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: phs73rc77gsm83
+1
All we need to do is average a 7.5% return and our aggressive retirement goals are met. Sure, more is better and I will be working hard to beat the S&P each year. However, I don't need to be too risky. Managed and index funds for us! The only individual stock that I care about is my company's.....since our LTI plan is based on RSUs.
I’m using 7% in my simulations.

Would do cartwheels down the street to average 7.5% for the next two decades.
 
For those that are interested — what Russell Okung did with his contract is pretty interesting. He negotiated 1/2 of his contract to be paid in Biticoin. I don’t expect him to be an outlier. He may be ahead of the curve.
 
I’m using 7% in my simulations.

Would do cartwheels down the street to average 7.5% for the next two decades.
I think the market will perform better than that, but with periods of down/flatness. I have been researching the hell out of the 2000's since the S&P, Nasdaq, and growth funds all were underperforming. Even if this scenario happens again, there were some industries, sectors, and countries that experienced normal returns (which is reassuring).
 
2020 returns as of 12/30:

Composite return = +19.5%

Based on a weighted average of our 7 retirement accounts (doesn't include our cash/CDs or daughter's 529). Top performing account came in at 34.6% based on the power of FGCKX (Fidelity Growth Company K). Our low was 12.8% for our new/current 401k account (I moved companies in late 2019). Played it too safe with this account for the first half of 2020 and couldn't catch up to the S&P 500. This account has great index options, but very light on the managed funds.

Overall, pretty happy. Stayed cool during the corona crash and made a few good pivots throughout the year. Onwards to 2021!!!!!
Final return for 2020 = +19.8% (vs. S&P return of +16.3%)

Nice final day of the year. 👍
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Postman_1
For those that are interested — what Russell Okung did with his contract is pretty interesting. He negotiated 1/2 of his contract to be paid in Biticoin. I don’t expect him to be an outlier. He may be ahead of the curve.
Relatively small story, I'd say it was more of an advocacy move as he could have just bought the Bitcoin once he got the money, without the headlines, but it is another brick in the wall.
 
Relatively small story, I'd say it was more of an advocacy move as he could have just bought the Bitcoin once he got the money, without the headlines, but it is another brick in the wall.

If I was his agent or financial advisor I'd want, ON PAPER, that he was warned of the risks and shown what happened a few years ago. This is one downturn away from some nasty litigation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking
If I was his agent or financial advisor I'd want, ON PAPER, that he was warned of the risks and shown what happened a few years ago. This is one downturn away from some nasty litigation.
I'd think the team lawayers would want that as well, and I'm sure the lawyers on both sides wrote all sorts of stuff down on paper on this one.

Have to figure they pay it out at the current market value(price?) though.
 
And you don't move money around right? Your asset allocation decisions are strictly for new investments?
This is our return for our entire retirement portfolio for 2020. 7 accounts in total.....401ks, 403bs, brokerage, and backdoor Roth IRAs. 3 accounts continue to get new contributions, but 4 do not. I reallocate all funds throughout the year as needed. I make modest moves, but meaningful. Increased our allocation of growth indexes and funds in early 2020. Then increased our allocation of small/mid caps in the late summer. Stuff like that to catch trends. Overall, I probably made 3 "big" moves this year and probably 4-5 smaller adjustments. Otherwise, lots and lots of tracking and research! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RU-05
Great job! So this is for your retirement accounts, are they 100% equities or is they’re a fixed income allocation in there too?
See the post above and my reply to RU-05. This does not include our cash (which we view differently and for different purposes) or our daughter's 529. These retirement accounts are about 90% equities and 10% bonds.

All of our retirement goal calculations are solely based on these 7 retirement accounts. If that all makes sense!
😁
 
Aerospace and Defense sector? Seeing lots of low P/E's, and high EPS,especially from those that lean more toward defense. Stock prices way down from precovid levels. Some solid, but not spectacular moves(the Aero oriented have had some spectacular moves see SPR) since early November.


Good value? Or Value traps?

Situation where the aero's have dragged down defense merely because they are in the same sector?
 
Aerospace and Defense sector? Seeing lots of low P/E's, and high EPS,especially from those that lean more toward defense. Stock prices way down from precovid levels. Some solid, but not spectacular moves(the Aero oriented have had some spectacular moves see SPR) since early November.


Good value? Or Value traps?

Situation where the aero's have dragged down defense merely because they are in the same sector?

Pandemic for aeros and a new Democratic administration for defense mean a LOT of uncertainty and risk.
 
I think the market will perform better than that, but with periods of down/flatness. I have been researching the hell out of the 2000's since the S&P, Nasdaq, and growth funds all were underperforming. Even if this scenario happens again, there were some industries, sectors, and countries that experienced normal returns (which is reassuring).

From today’s level, I’d take the under on 7.5%. Over time, there are several reasonably good indicators to view prospective returns. For example, the market value of the equity market as a percentage of GDP has been a good guidepost. That metric has never been higher, and implies negative returns over the intermediate term. Of course, rates have never been lower, either, but low rates also give rise to low prospective absolute returns.

All of this is at current prices. Last April was a very different story. So, if you consistently invest over time relatively equal increments, you should benefit from pullbacks and lower prices. Thus, you may do better but I still think 7.5% will be tough.

Buying stocks is investing in businesses, and over the long run, the performance of the business will determine returns. However, even spectacular business performance can’t overcome an inflated valuation. I’ve always thought it easier to evaluate earnings yields, simply the inverse of a P/E ratio. Think of the P as the price you are paying for all of the dollars and capital invested in a business. If you started the business yourself, you would have book value and historical cost as your “P.” For stocks sporting incredibly high P/E ratios, or meager earnings yields, the questions that need to be considered is how long will it take for the business to grow such that you have a reasonable yield on your acquisition price, and how confident are you that the business will grow to that level? Basic questions often rip apart valuations. Tesla is the easiest to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus20
See the post above and my reply to RU-05. This does not include our cash (which we view differently and for different purposes) or our daughter's 529. These retirement accounts are about 90% equities and 10% bonds.

All of our retirement goal calculations are solely based on these 7 retirement accounts. If that all makes sense!
😁
Even better job factoring in the 10% fixed income component!
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus20
From today’s level, I’d take the under on 7.5%. Over time, there are several reasonably good indicators to view prospective returns. For example, the market value of the equity market as a percentage of GDP has been a good guidepost. That metric has never been higher, and implies negative returns over the intermediate term. Of course, rates have never been lower, either, but low rates also give rise to low prospective absolute returns.

All of this is at current prices. Last April was a very different story. So, if you consistently invest over time relatively equal increments, you should benefit from pullbacks and lower prices. Thus, you may do better but I still think 7.5% will be tough.

Buying stocks is investing in businesses, and over the long run, the performance of the business will determine returns. However, even spectacular business performance can’t overcome an inflated valuation. I’ve always thought it easier to evaluate earnings yields, simply the inverse of a P/E ratio. Think of the P as the price you are paying for all of the dollars and capital invested in a business. If you started the business yourself, you would have book value and historical cost as your “P.” For stocks sporting incredibly high P/E ratios, or meager earnings yields, the questions that need to be considered is how long will it take for the business to grow such that you have a reasonable yield on your acquisition price, and how confident are you that the business will grow to that level? Basic questions often rip apart valuations. Tesla is the easiest to do.
I assume the party will continue as long as interest rates remain at zero or super low and the feds continue to do what they do. But yes, afterwards, I am worried about the 2000s all over again. Our significant ongoing contributions will help, but we need to find those industries, sectors, or overseas markets that will still be bright spots. They were there in the 2000s, so I hope I can find them and adjust accordingly.
 
From today’s level, I’d take the under on 7.5%. Over time, there are several reasonably good indicators to view prospective returns. For example, the market value of the equity market as a percentage of GDP has been a good guidepost. That metric has never been higher, and implies negative returns over the intermediate term. Of course, rates have never been lower, either, but low rates also give rise to low prospective absolute returns.

All of this is at current prices. Last April was a very different story. So, if you consistently invest over time relatively equal increments, you should benefit from pullbacks and lower prices. Thus, you may do better but I still think 7.5% will be tough.

Buying stocks is investing in businesses, and over the long run, the performance of the business will determine returns. However, even spectacular business performance can’t overcome an inflated valuation. I’ve always thought it easier to evaluate earnings yields, simply the inverse of a P/E ratio. Think of the P as the price you are paying for all of the dollars and capital invested in a business. If you started the business yourself, you would have book value and historical cost as your “P.” For stocks sporting incredibly high P/E ratios, or meager earnings yields, the questions that need to be considered is how long will it take for the business to grow such that you have a reasonable yield on your acquisition price, and how confident are you that the business will grow to that level? Basic questions often rip apart valuations. Tesla is the easiest to do.
Would you agree certain sectors look better then others? Are you, or have you, rotated to those other sectors?
 
Would you agree certain sectors look better then others? Are you, or have you, rotated to those other sectors?
As I mentioned before, check out pharma/biotech/health sciences.....as a fund. I just jumped into PRHSX. Managed funds are a great way to get into an industry even if you don't have the expertise.


+15.19% annual return since inception in 1995, which means, it performed pretty damn well in the 2000s!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RU-05
I assume the party will continue as long as interest rates remain at zero or super low and the feds continue to do what they do. But yes, afterwards, I am worried about the 2000s all over again. Our significant ongoing contributions will help, but we need to find those industries, sectors, or overseas markets that will still be bright spots. They were there in the 2000s, so I hope I can find them and adjust accordingly.

Perhaps, but how well placed are you to judge the early signs of inflation that could spur rates higher? Sure, if you’re able to anticipate such a move before equities and other risk assets react, that sounds like a good strategy. Just realize you’ve entered the realm of a global macro investor.
 
Would you agree certain sectors look better then others? Are you, or have you, rotated to those other sectors?

on a relative basis comparing certain sectors to others, today? Yes. Relative to those same sectors over time? Less so.
 
[/QUOTE]
on a relative basis comparing certain sectors to others, today? Yes. Relative to those same sectors over time? Less so.
Less so but still better ya?

Defense, ala HII is certainly cheaper then tech, and it's also cheaper then it was a year ago.
 

Less so but still better ya?

Defense, ala HII is certainly cheaper then tech, and it's also cheaper then it was a year ago.
[/QUOTE]

Huntington Ingalls? The navy shipbuilder? That was cheap a ways back. If memory serves, it was a spin. It did well. doesn't look particularly cheap to me right now,
 
Less so but still better ya?

Defense, ala HII is certainly cheaper then tech, and it's also cheaper then it was a year ago.

Huntington Ingalls? The navy shipbuilder? That was cheap a ways back. If memory serves, it was a spin. It did well. doesn't look particularly cheap to me right now,
[/QUOTE]

Based on?

Current price of $170. P/E under 12x

Precovid it was $270 with a P/E of 20x.

Edit: What's a "spin"?
 
Huntington Ingalls? The navy shipbuilder? That was cheap a ways back. If memory serves, it was a spin. It did well. doesn't look particularly cheap to me right now,

Based on?

Current price of $170. P/E under 12x

Precovid it was $270 with a P/E of 20x.

Edit: What's a "spin"?
[/QUOTE]

Forward P/E is above 15, which implies that earnings will shrink next year. Margins have come off there highs from a few years ago, and it’s not trading at a very cheap price relative to book. For a business like HII, Price to book is relevant. It’s not crazy expensive, it it’s not cheap, either. It’s within a range of fair value.

A spin is short for spin off, HII was a part of Northrop. Northrop separated the business out and distributed shares of HII to existing owners of Northrop. If you know what to look for, spin offs can be good areas to look into.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redking and RU-05
Natural Gas is another area that looks pretty cheap, both historically and relative to the market, and has recently started to get moving.

Pressures due to possible restrictions brought by Dems at the federal level(something to look for in the Ga runoff), but in 2021 I'm thinking those pressures let up some.
 
Natural Gas is another area that looks pretty cheap, both historically and relative to the market, and has recently started to get moving.

Pressures due to possible restrictions brought by Dems at the federal level(something to look for in the Ga runoff), but in 2021 I'm thinking those pressures let up some.

Maybe, but this sector has been a value trap for over a decade. The increase in supply has kept prices very, very low. Prior to the GFC,natgas was high single digits and no one thought it would ever stay well below $6 for any period of time since that was the marginal cost of production in the Haynesville. Well, tons of bankruptcies since, including CHK, and here we are. Could a post reorg equity in the space be of interest? Perhaps. But you’d need to know what you’re doing.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT