take a manual in the snow any day over an auto also last longer and easier on the wallet to repair. i cant afford performance.
OT: The joy of the stick shift
- Thread starter BABYBULL24
- Start date
Still have a 30 year old Jeep Wrangler (my beach Jeep and its a hoot to drive). Just dropped it to collectors coverage for insurance (I put < 5K miles per year on it). I’m sure one of my kids will get it (some day).
Funny thing about manual transmissions, I had to special order one for my F150 back in ‘94 since nobody in the NE drives them (it actually hurt the resale value). I rent cars all over the world and you have to pay extra for an automatic (if availabile). Last summer I put almost 1500 miles on a VW golf (manual transmission) in The British Isles and Ireland. Always fun to shift with your left hand!
Funny thing about manual transmissions, I had to special order one for my F150 back in ‘94 since nobody in the NE drives them (it actually hurt the resale value). I rent cars all over the world and you have to pay extra for an automatic (if availabile). Last summer I put almost 1500 miles on a VW golf (manual transmission) in The British Isles and Ireland. Always fun to shift with your left hand!
Tried to teach my nephew how to drive a stick 2 years ago using my Saab 9-3 at the time. He gave up after an hour. These kids have no patience for learning anything.
I've always enjoyed the opinions of people who think they're society's babysitters.
Depends on what "better" means (more advantageous, better for them...). I see your point, though.
Agreed. For me, driving a stick is about the experience, but being stuck in traffic with one takes that experience and turns it on its head.
when your young a stick is good.
then you get older and it's automatic all the way.
Once up there in age, memories of your four on the floor bring back nostalgia . If that nostalgia has you going back to driving a stick shift once you get stuck in traffic after not driving a stick for years , that nostalgia turns into "what a piece of $#!T" car [roll]
Then the memories of how nice it was just to put car in drive and no shifting thoughts start dancing through your head.[laughing]
then you get older and it's automatic all the way.
Once up there in age, memories of your four on the floor bring back nostalgia . If that nostalgia has you going back to driving a stick shift once you get stuck in traffic after not driving a stick for years , that nostalgia turns into "what a piece of $#!T" car [roll]
Then the memories of how nice it was just to put car in drive and no shifting thoughts start dancing through your head.[laughing]
Why were you trying to teach him to drive a stick? If he doesn't own a stick, he is going to have the opportunity to drive a stick so rarely that a couple of lessons in 2017 wouldn't make a difference anyhow. The fact that he gave up after an hour isn't a sign of a lack of patience. The fact that he even spent an hour on this worthless exercise shows how much he wanted to appease you.
All of my kids learned to drive on a "stick". Plenty of patience was required. Still have a 2007 Vibe and 2001 Corolla in the family. My daughter drives the Vibe and she's saving the Corolla for my oldest grandson, who will be driving in a few years. I'm sure that I'll be tasked with teaching him.
Three on the tree in a station wagon is the only right way to do it. These guys with their fancy 5 speeds or even 6 speeds are just show offs.
Apparently you need a babysitter.
10/10ths is racing. Racing on anything other than track is extremely dangerous not just to you but other people. I used to drive a Honda S2000 and trust me I had a lot of fun with that car but I no way did I ever approach driving on the road like I would on a track.
10/10ths isn't "racing", it's adhesion limits. And I have years of EMS experience which have, on many occasions, warranted driving to the limits of my vehicle.
Last edited:
Despite modern marketing, I still get better gas milage with a manual, but you need to know how to drive. You also have better torque control, as a practical matter. So as I wrote, there are plusses and minuses for each.
10 years ago, manual transmissions got better gas mileage. But with computerized monitoring and control, most automatic transmissions today are more fuel efficient.
True.
There is still no evidence to dispute the notion that use of manual transmissions, today, remains a matter of personal preference without any material benefit to vehicle performance.
It reminds me of my old high school chemistry teacher. He wouldn't allow us to use calculators, but we could use slide rules. His rationale was that if we became chemists, we might not have a calculator, or the power might be out, but we'd always have a slide rule in our pocket.
Sometimes advances in technology make old technology obsolete for other than nostalgic purposes.
It would be interesting to take a poll of manual transmission enthusiasts to see what percentage of them still insist on points and condensers.
I am holding on to my manual transmissions as long as I can, but it is getting harder. When I was replacing my last car (B8 S4 with a manual) it seemed like Audi had pretty much abandoned the manual. I briefly considered getting an S3 with a DSG and it was a pretty fun car, but then I drove the Golf R (same engine and AWD system) with a manual and ended up liking it better. As a bonus I am really digging the hatchback's practicality.
I don't race my cars, I just like using a manual transmission. Something about the mechanical engagement just appeals to me for whatever reason.
Its getting harder to find cars I like though. I really like having AWD and a manual, but there aren't many cars with that combination on the market anymore. I think if VW drops the Golf R for North America, Subaru would probably be my only choice next time around.
I don't race my cars, I just like using a manual transmission. Something about the mechanical engagement just appeals to me for whatever reason.
Its getting harder to find cars I like though. I really like having AWD and a manual, but there aren't many cars with that combination on the market anymore. I think if VW drops the Golf R for North America, Subaru would probably be my only choice next time around.
And by all accounts, the WRX / STi is a terrible car (interesting side note - the stock A3 is faster than the WRX).
I like the Golf R a lot, having once owned a GTI (with a manual transmission) but they command a premium in the marketplace that I'm not willing to pay. I'm also suffering from "Whatnextitis". Part of me wants to just say "WTF" and buy a Camaro or a Mustang GT because I'm completely uninspired by all the same-same Euro iron that's on the market these days.
Still driving a stick, only use clutch to to go after stopping with my 18 speed Eaton Fuller trans.
if you like a stick shift, you're really gonna love non power push mowers, butter churns, and non power hand saws.
Not true for someone who knows how to drive a manual.
With a manual you can disengage the clutch, very easy, just step on the pedal, and that means you roll, roll, roll, with little gas, as you approach stop signs, lights, ect., but with an automatic you're always in gear. No one switches to neutral on an auto because you have to take your eyes off the road. The clutch/transmission is typically always engaged, and you don't "roll, roll, roll."
Or with a manual you can shift into a higher gear, dropping your RPMs. Lose a bit of performance but gas milage goes significantly up. Do this on the highways when you're just cruising along.
Anyway, you can really increase your gas milage with a manual if you play these little games which, as a practical matter, you can't do with an automatic.
Last edited:
Most manuals are what 6 speed? You aint beating 8,9,and 10 speeds now with autostop. Theres a reason auto companies are dropping them besides popularity. Even pure sports cars are going full auto due to the performance.
If only today's computerized cars had a computerized system that could simultaneously monitor the factors going into fuel consumption, and automatically adjust to maximize fuel efficiency, engaging and shifting between between a higher number of gear ratios much faster than a human could react to press the clutch pedal.
So basically the perception that you are in control of the gear ratio, even if it means poorer performance and poorer economy. That's fine. Nothing wrong with an aesthetic reason.
But what will you pay to replace the battery? I think more than $1,100. Ever have to replace a passenger side mirror with a camera in it?
It may be my old age but when I'm in stop and go traffic driving an automatic my right leg starts hurting after a while. It because of moving from gas to brake. And before you ask I'm in better physical condition than guys 35 years younger.
I looked into a used Leaf a while back and new battery was about 6K. This should come down over time, and the life will go up. Replaced a side mirror on Mercedes $1500, side mirror on Honda $250.
as for electrics, we're aiming all wrong.
the reason gas works logistically, is because everybody but diesels use the same standardized gas, with the same gas tank fill port, and a fill up takes a couple mins.
standardize easily replaceable smaller modular batteries.
when you're low on power you pull into a refill/charging station, attendant pulls the empty and partially empty batteries from the battery drawer on your car's underside, takes a power reading to see how much juice is left, credits you for the juice remaining, loads up your battery drawer with fully charged modular batteries, you pay the power difference between what you gave up and the refills you got, and go on your way.
you never own the batteries. cars can have different size battery drawers, that can handle more or less modular batteries.
station recharges the modular batteries you gave up, and those go into another car when fully charged by the station.
current gas station/convenience marts could handle gas and battery exchange until gas cars are extinct, at which point they become just exchange stations/convenience marts.
pulling the empty modular batteries and replacing with fully charged ones should take no longer than filling your tank.
as battery tech improves, just keep the standardized modular connections and dimensions, and everything should still work fine. just as a 9V alkaline works fine in the same smoke detector you had an old school 9V non alkaline in.
i suppose the station itself buys their initial battery stock, and works off the trade ins from there out.
batteries will someday go bad.
exchange stations will need to take that into account when setting exchange prices.
the reason gas works logistically, is because everybody but diesels use the same standardized gas, with the same gas tank fill port, and a fill up takes a couple mins.
standardize easily replaceable smaller modular batteries.
when you're low on power you pull into a refill/charging station, attendant pulls the empty and partially empty batteries from the battery drawer on your car's underside, takes a power reading to see how much juice is left, credits you for the juice remaining, loads up your battery drawer with fully charged modular batteries, you pay the power difference between what you gave up and the refills you got, and go on your way.
you never own the batteries. cars can have different size battery drawers, that can handle more or less modular batteries.
station recharges the modular batteries you gave up, and those go into another car when fully charged by the station.
current gas station/convenience marts could handle gas and battery exchange until gas cars are extinct, at which point they become just exchange stations/convenience marts.
pulling the empty modular batteries and replacing with fully charged ones should take no longer than filling your tank.
as battery tech improves, just keep the standardized modular connections and dimensions, and everything should still work fine. just as a 9V alkaline works fine in the same smoke detector you had an old school 9V non alkaline in.
i suppose the station itself buys their initial battery stock, and works off the trade ins from there out.
batteries will someday go bad.
exchange stations will need to take that into account when setting exchange prices.
Last edited:
I wasn’t using the car enough to keep it around and he needed a car desperately. I told him he could have it for practically free if he promised to learn and show proficiency driving it. Apparently it wasn’t worth it.
In the end, didn’t make a difference since he went to Pitt and wasn't going to keep a car on an urban campus.
I gotta draw the line there. It’s disorienting enough to drive on the opposite side, I could do without shifting. It is very hard to find auto trannies renting in developing countries. Not to mention an stick just gives you sooo much more oomph when you’re putting around in an econobox. I’ve trucked my butt around Central and South America enough times in Daihatsu Terios and Suzuki Samurais/Jimnys; you gotta be in just the right gear to get up a muddy incline when you’ve got well less than 100hp and who knows what amount of torque.
