OT: The US Open on FOX is an absolute joke

[RUScrew85]

I see that I'm in the minority by saying that I loved this course. It required ingenuity and nothing about it was boring. Actually, it was one of the few tournaments that I couldn't stop watching. I loved the flight tracker off the tee. I would have liked it if they could have put a chalk line around the greens to make them stand out. Also would have liked the flag and poles to stand out better. It was impossible to see where they were aiming. The interviews by Holly Sonders were a bit awkward because she never faced the camera...all we got were profiles...but it was a nice profile. My biggest gripe was the audio. There was too much background noise, most of it coming from the Goodyear blimp. Why in the world did they need a blimp when they could have covered it better with a few drones. I am predicting the demise of the blimp for covering golf!

Baba Booey to you all. (It never gets old in my book)

I agree with all of this except bababooey - it's played out Jerry.

I especially liked the NASCAR coverage like distance markers showing distances (to the front of the green and/or to the pin)

But those greens sucked. I know they all had to play them but it brought more luck into the putting game then usual. And it might have had a significant affect on Johnson's putts on the final hole.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Loved the course. Visually beautiful, crazy tough topography, Puget sound looks amazing, and I even liked the train. But they have to fix the greens. Balls shouldn't hop.

 

[Knight Shift]

Seriously? Are you in 2nd grade? You're THAT guy?

Only interesting thing that happened on that course IMO, but like I said, I am not a golf fan. Worse than watching fishing on TV.

 

[Caliknight]

The best golfer won this tournament. The way it should be.

 

[RU Husky]

Loved the course. Visually beautiful, crazy tough topography, Puget sound looks amazing, and I even liked the train. But they have to fix the greens. Balls shouldn't hop.

I frequently take the train from Portland to Seattle and we whiz by the course-as you saw on TV. Usually the train whistle is blaring quite loudly and they must have notified BSNF and the Cascade line not to toot their whistle near the course. Imagine the broohaha that would have created.

I've also seen the course close up and ,honestly, it is so much nicer in person than TV could ever show. The complaints about the greens no doubt were legitimate, but there was way too much whining for my money. The scoring on Sunday was ridiculously low. The greens at Shinnecock '95 was far worse and the USGA returned there and will be back again for another US Open. I expect they will be back at Chambers Bay- with new greens.

The Puget Sound area and Olympic National Park are worth the visit. The vistas here in the Portland area are also stunning. There are plenty of other beautiful courses in the Northwest which could host professional golf events. An annual women's event is played outside of Portland.

 

[knightfan7]

Loved the course. Visually beautiful, crazy tough topography, Puget sound looks amazing, and I even liked the train. But they have to fix the greens. Balls shouldn't hop.

Watching the Golf Channel today, the pro's almost universally loved the course tee to green but hated putting. They said the grass needs to be replaced on all but 2 greens. Interesting that one of the two, was replaced recently. They said the grass wasn't dormant like the USGA would like you to believe, it was dead in many places. For the stat freaks, the average # of putts per round on the tour is 28. At Chambers Bay it was 32. That's 16 strokes over 4 days. How much of that was the putting difficulty as opposed to being unable to get approaches close I have no idea.

Another issue was spectator safety. They said they need to make it easier for fans to move around, citing numerous injuries that one said has been kept quiet by the USGA,.

 

[chase07470]

Only interesting thing that happened on that course IMO, but like I said, I am not a golf fan. Worse than watching fishing on TV.

You can't hold a serious golf tournament on those greens. You just can't. The baseball equivalent would be holding the world series on a local muni, dirt infield where officials refused to rake out the hard bumps and then watching as the infielders tried to deal with all the wicked hops. The world series would be determined by bad bounces on what every other day in the world of mlb would be routine outs. You would never think of doing that, why would the USGA?

Last year, they held it on Pinehurst, a course that was absolutely ruined by Coore and Crenshaw. It looked like it was hit by a Hurricane and then set on fire.

The US Open was the toughest test in golf. It was set up by the smart men of previous generations to play with the golfers head, particularly off the tee where the player was presented with long, narrow targets, surrounded by the penalty of deep rough. Over four days, that test just wears the heck out of you. Add in firm, fast greens that lead to balls bouncing into high rough for delicate little pitch shots in which your club interacts with deep, tangled rough and you have created a perfect nightmare for the golfer.

There was little test off the tees here. The test was mostly hitting a lot of blind iron shots and hoping for the best as the golf turned into fun house, mini golf around the greens. Throw in the clumpy, "who knows where this putt will bounce too" element and you have the ultimate mess of a tournament.

Mike Davis at the USGA is a first class boob who tried to fix something that wasn't broken and now is paying the price of being the laughingstock of the golf world. Would not be a bit surprised if the canceled the scheduled return to Chambers Bay and if not, you can bet they will have a different grass on those greens.

As for Fox...Joe Buck was better than I thought he would be. Norman was worse. He was openly rooting for the Aussies and Johnson, saying stupid things like, "These are two big drives here" on the 18th with Spieth and the South African...they ought to call Johnny Miller with an open check book to bail them out.

So used to the drama on Sunday night with Game of Thrones, when DJ missed the putt, it was like a main character getting killed off the show, or at least that's what popped into my head. "Damn, Jon Snow last week, now Dustin Johnson." Good for Spieth, won it with his B game and that golfing mind that hasn't been seen on tour since Nicklaus.

 

[Knight_Light]

I wonder if NBC/Golf Channel, CBS and/or ABC/ESPN will use more directional close-up mics that FOX used that gave viewers amazing insight to live caddie/golfer conversations...especially in the fairways. (Some networks would get conversation audio for tee boxes).

That seems to be one of the innovations that viewers like the most.

 

[mildone]

Nobody gives a shit about Le Mans. :>)

Yeah, yeah...

It's one of the three most iconic and famous automobile races on the planet. Nearly 300,000 people showed up to watch it in person this year.

But that's okay. If Fox didn't want to actually broadcast it, then they shouldn't have bought the rights to do so. NBC has been upping their game on sports broadcasts lately, so F Fox Sports.

 

[Ruthinking]

Loved the course. Visually beautiful, crazy tough topography, Puget sound looks amazing, and I even liked the train. But they have to fix the greens. Balls shouldn't hop.

Could the hoping ball have been caused by the many peebles in the traps getting blasted onto the greens? Shouldn't they sift the sand traps to remove the peebles too.

 

[RU Husky]

You can't hold a serious golf tournament on those greens. You just can't. The baseball equivalent would be holding the world series on a local muni, dirt infield where officials refused to rake out the hard bumps and then watching as the infielders tried to deal with all the wicked hops. The world series would be determined by bad bounces on what every other day in the world of mlb would be routine outs. You would never think of doing that, why would the USGA?

Last year, they held it on Pinehurst, a course that was absolutely ruined by Coore and Crenshaw. It looked like it was hit by a Hurricane and then set on fire.

The US Open was the toughest test in golf. It was set up by the smart men of previous generations to play with the golfers head, particularly off the tee where the player was presented with long, narrow targets, surrounded by the penalty of deep rough. Over four days, that test just wears the heck out of you. Add in firm, fast greens that lead to balls bouncing into high rough for delicate little pitch shots in which your club interacts with deep, tangled rough and you have created a perfect nightmare for the golfer.

There was little test off the tees here. The test was mostly hitting a lot of blind iron shots and hoping for the best as the golf turned into fun house, mini golf around the greens. Throw in the clumpy, "who knows where this putt will bounce too" element and you have the ultimate mess of a tournament.

Mike Davis at the USGA is a first class boob who tried to fix something that wasn't broken and now is paying the price of being the laughingstock of the golf world. Would not be a bit surprised if the canceled the scheduled return to Chambers Bay and if not, you can bet they will have a different grass on those greens.

As for Fox...Joe Buck was better than I thought he would be. Norman was worse. He was openly rooting for the Aussies and Johnson, saying stupid things like, "These are two big drives here" on the 18th with Spieth and the South African...they ought to call Johnny Miller with an open check book to bail them out.

So used to the drama on Sunday night with Game of Thrones, when DJ missed the putt, it was like a main character getting killed off the show, or at least that's what popped into my head. "Damn, Jon Snow last week, now Dustin Johnson." Good for Spieth, won it with his B game and that golfing mind that hasn't been seen on tour since Nicklaus.

I think you exaggerate a bit too much.The golfers knew this was going to be different. The absence of narrow fairways may have been different, but golfers were still rewarded for landing in the larger fairways and punished for not. Undulating fairways are a feature of any links course. Length was obviously a factor- this was the longest US Open course and so the bombers were benefited. Bombers who couldn'tputt, paid the price. Spieth ,who is not that long, won. The green modulations (forget about the poor surface conditions) were part of the course signature. No surprises there. Practice rounds certainly helped familiarize the golfers and there were loads of golfers who had absolutely no problems- it wasn't luck that accounted for those -6,-4 , 3rounds yesterday. That none of the leaders went low was the result of pressure and their play not to lose strategies. For my money, there were way too many feeder greens which resulted in tap in birdies for those who placed their approach perfectly.

What was to be a feature of Chambers Bay never became a factor- that is the wind. The Tacoma Straits area is noted for its very high winds. If the winds were up,the scores would have been even higher and the bitching off the charts. The benign weather conditions were not a factor.

It seems fairly certain that the Open will return to Chambers Bay and there are may lessons to be learned re the greens and fan accessibility to the course. I thought this was a pretty good debut. The drams was certainly first rate .

 

[chase07470]

I think you exaggerate a bit too much.The golfers knew this was going to be different. The absence of narrow fairways may have been different, but golfers were still rewarded for landing in the larger fairways and punished for not. Undulating fairways are a feature of any links course. Length was obviously a factor- this was the longest US Open course and so the bombers were benefited. Bombers who couldn'tputt, paid the price. Spieth ,who is not that long, won. The green modulations (forget about the poor surface conditions) were part of the course signature. No surprises there. Practice rounds certainly helped familiarize the golfers and there were loads of golfers who had absolutely no problems- it wasn't luck that accounted for those -6,-4 , 3rounds yesterday. That none of the leaders went low was the result of pressure and their play not to lose strategies. For my money, there were way too many feeder greens which resulted in tap in birdies for those who placed their approach perfectly.

What was to be a feature of Chambers Bay never became a factor- that is the wind. The Tacoma Straits area is noted for its very high winds. If the winds were up,the scores would have been even higher and the bitching off the charts. The benign weather conditions were not a factor.

It seems fairly certain that the Open will return to Chambers Bay and there are may lessons to be learned re the greens and fan accessibility to the course. I thought this was a pretty good debut. The drams was certainly first rate .

I agree with all your points. Yes, they all had fair warning and plenty of opportunity to familiarize themselves with what awaited them.

But it doesn't change the fact that the putting conditions were deplorable and completely unacceptable for a national championship.

As for the style of course, I've played these new, tricked up links style courses at Streamsong and Bayonne and they have a place in golf. It's always nice to see and experience a new iteration of anything.

But the US Open was a brand characterized by a specific test deemed and agreed on by all as the toughest test. Winning a US Open meant you survived the tight long tee shots and all the rough. Chambers Bay is a test of a different kind and it's interesting to watch, I'll admit. I just think the US Open is the wrong tournament to showcase it. Did we truly just watch a US Open or a World Tricked Up Links Championship with USGA signage?

Let the PGA Championship take chances with venues. The US Open means something specific, grounded in the tradition and style of the game in America and should be played at our historic venues designed during the Golden Age of course architecture. That's the US Open. Not that hot mess in the gravel pit in Washington State.

 

[JPhoboken]

Last year, they held it on Pinehurst, a course that was absolutely ruined by Coore and Crenshaw. It looked like it was hit by a Hurricane and then set on fire.

Couldn't agree more, I played Pinehurst #2 4 times over the years and loved it. I have absolutely zero interest in playing it now.

An amateur may like the nostalgia of playing a course like this the first time or two, but when they play half their shots from waste areas, sorry, thats not fun.

 

[RU Husky]

I agree with all your points. Yes, they all had fair warning and plenty of opportunity to familiarize themselves with what awaited them.

But it doesn't change the fact that the putting conditions were deplorable and completely unacceptable for a national championship.

As for the style of course, I've played these new, tricked up links style courses at Streamsong and Bayonne and they have a place in golf. It's always nice to see and experience a new iteration of anything.

But the US Open was a brand characterized by a specific test deemed and agreed on by all as the toughest test. Winning a US Open meant you survived the tight long tee shots and all the rough. Chambers Bay is a test of a different kind and it's interesting to watch, I'll admit. I just think the US Open is the wrong tournament to showcase it. Did we truly just watch a US Open or a World Tricked Up Links Championship with USGA signage?

Let the PGA Championship take chances with venues. The US Open means something specific, grounded in the tradition and style of the game in America and should be played at our historic venues designed during the Golden Age of course architecture. That's the US Open. Not that hot mess in the gravel pit in Washington State.

There's something to be said for TRADITION, like the Confederate flag flying over a state capitol building. I'm sure you bemoaned the development of artificial grass and baseball being played indoors, or, worse yet, the removal of weather as a factor in the playing of that most American of sports traditions, the Super Bowl. Imagine that, the national championship of football being played where rain, sleet or snow or frost and chill dare not go. Are our national past time and the Super bowl, also " something specific, grounded in the tradition and style of the game in America and should be played at our historic venues"? Should the world series be played only at Wrigley and the Super Bowl at Lambeau. Remember not so long ago when all baseball stadia started to look all alike and dimensions were becoming standardized. Now, diversity is back- Vive la difference.

Look, I understand that golf traditionalists could not be happy with the selection of Chambers Bay as an Open site any more than they yelled and screamed when Augusta attempted to modernize. Yet the world goes on without the Eisenhower Tree .Chambers Bay hasn't and won't ruin golf, but what may destroy the US Open, wherever it is played, is the new technology which has supercharged clubs and balls to the point of lunacy. Traditionalists should be less concerned about juiced up golf architecture and more concerned about how technology has changed the game. Bring back the mashie.

 

[chase07470]

Confederate flag? Now you're just trying to wind me up. Plenty of tradition coming my way. Next year is Oakmont, it's going back to Pebble and Shinnecock in the years ahead. The PGA Championship will be at Baltustrol and Bethpage....and you know what? People can just enjoy the tournament without all of this unnecessary noise from all corners of the golf world about what an "utter disaster" the venue was...Gary Player's words, not mine.

 

[RU Husky]

I think Geoff Oglivie had the best attitude and most grounded perspective about the course and the putting when he said:

"We have it so perfect every week. We are losing the ability to adapt, to see the speed difference when you look at it, to feel it under your feet.

"We've played far bumpier greens at U.S. Opens than this. Pebble Beach is one, in the morning they're great and it all kind of changes in the afternoon when the sun comes out.

"Yeah, there are a couple of ropey greens here, but good putters usually hole more putts on slightly ropey greens."

Spieth was also unfazed; he basically said- just play the game and move on.

Get over it. The next Opens will be in everyones' comfort zone. Just like these spoiled millionaires like it.

 

[chase07470]

"They were simply the worst most disgraceful surface I have ever seen on any tour in all the years I have played. The US Open deserves better than that."

Ian Poulter

"The U.S. Open is a great tournament with incredible history. The @usga should be ashamed of what they did to it this week."

Chris Kirk

Someone at the USGA should resign.

 

[RU Husky]

"They were simply the worst most disgraceful surface I have ever seen on any tour in all the years I have played. The US Open deserves better than that."

Ian Poulter

"The U.S. Open is a great tournament with incredible history. The @usga should be ashamed of what they did to it this week."

Chris Kirk

Someone at the USGA should resign.

Ian Poulter was +7, but was able to shoot a 69 on Saturday when the course played twice as tough than Sunday.
Chris Kirk was +21 !!!!!!! but was able to shoot 70 and 73 in the opening 2 rounds and then imploded on the weekend to shoot 80 and 78 ..

Yeah, it was the greens.

Excuses are for losers. With scores like that, it's Chris Kirk who is the one who has something to be ashamed of. Very few people are going to step up to defend those greens, but to suggest they are the primary reasons for those preposterous scores is absurd . On Sunday, there were 261 eagles and birdies and 316 bogies or higher ; that doesn't sound like a course that punished the participants. As Oglivie said, some of these guys just can't adapt.

Natural selection after all.

There were 4 really bad greens out of 18: 1,4,12 and 15 and the aesthetic quality of the other holes was simply awful. But, there have been greens just as bad, if not worse at an Open- Shinnecock in 95 and again in 2004 was ten times worse. That was punishment.They just didn't look as bad to the eye or as shown on TV.

West Coast golf courses have a poa problem Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach are notoriously bumpy, yet they are revered and somehow someone wins there. The greens at Chambers Bay most certainly could have been better. Unfortunately that has become the take away from what was a terrific tournament.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Citing Ian Poulter is no way to get someone to agree with you.

The greens will and should be fixed the next time. I don't agree with basically all the other complaints.

 

[Knight_Light]

It seems fairly certain that the Open will return to Chambers Bay and there are may lessons to be learned re the greens and fan accessibility to the course. I thought this was a pretty good debut. The drams was certainly first rate .

Disagree.

Remember, one of the main reason why Chambers Bay was built was because they were basically promised this US Open.

One of the biggest drawbacks/complaints from FOX and most of the fans attending was that it was impossible to follow groups/players around the course as 5-6 holes were off-limits to fans...which cut down the excitement, either in person or on air.

There is no way to create more fan access up/down 500 ft cliffs.

While 2 of the 18 greens that were resurfaced 2 years ago were far superior than the 16 greens that weren't, all of the other 16 greens would have to be resurfaced (some might undulation taken away), before US Open dares to give that course another date.

Now USGA (and now their long-term partner FOX) have hit a home run with more US Opens on the West Coast and their willingness to carry it in Prime Time.

From 2019-2023, there will be 3 US Opens on the West Coast (all in California), and FOX will carry most of the final groups in East Coast Prime Time.

With a lot of future US Opens coming to the West Coast during those years (which FOX will no doubt appreciate), it eliminates the chances that Chambers Bay would get another one anytime soon.

NOTE: For selfish reasons for Fathers Day...I thought it was great that families could do a lot of events, go to restaurants, etc...all afternoon and Dad's (on the East/Central Time) could still be home by the time the leader's tee'd off (close to 6 pm).

 

[RUScrew85]

Could the hoping ball have been caused by the many peebles in the traps getting blasted onto the greens? Shouldn't they sift the sand traps to remove the peebles too.

Nah you can pick up loose impediments on the green. The issue was the grasses on the green and the stage in their yearly lifecycle.. It was too early in the year for the grasses on the green.

 

[RUScrew85]

Watching the Golf Channel today, the pro's almost universally loved the course tee to green but hated putting. They said the grass needs to be replaced on all but 2 greens. Interesting that one of the two, was replaced recently. They said the grass wasn't dormant like the USGA would like you to believe, it was dead in many places. For the stat freaks, the average # of putts per round on the tour is 28. At Chambers Bay it was 32. That's 16 strokes over 4 days. How much of that was the putting difficulty as opposed to being unable to get approaches close I have no idea.

Another issue was spectator safety. They said they need to make it easier for fans to move around, citing numerous injuries that one said has been kept quiet by the USGA,.

While the putting and the greens was a problem the rest of the play Tee to Green was way to easy for a US Open. They need real rough and tighter fairways for the US Open as it traditionally has been. This year the US Open was just another British Open.

 

[ClassOf02]

Nah you can pick up loose impediments on the green. The issue was the grasses on the green and the stage in their yearly lifecycle.. It was too early in the year for the grasses on the green.

Sort of. The issue on the greens is that there are basically two types of grass growing. The whole course (including fairways & greens) is on fescue. But they also have poa annua growing there too. The two types of grasses grow at different rates and cause the uneven surface, particularly later in the day.

 

[RUScrew85]

Sort of. The issue on the greens is that there are basically two types of grass growing. The whole course (including fairways & greens) is on fescue. But they also have poa annua growing there too. The two types of grasses grow at different rates and cause the uneven surface, particularly later in the day.

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that they grasses would even out later in the year when both were filluy "awake" for the summer. And that they were bumpy due to being early in the growing season.

 

[Veiox]

Sort of. The issue on the greens is that there are basically two types of grass growing. The whole course (including fairways & greens) is on fescue. But they also have poa annua growing there too. The two types of grasses grow at different rates and cause the uneven surface, particularly later in the day.

This. In the late afternoon they say the fescue grass "lays down" while the poa annua remains tall and active (poa annua also grows faster and is basically a weed grass). Very typical for golf in the pacific northwest this time of year.

 

[RU Husky]

The poa problem and splotchy,bumpy greens also plagues Pebble Beach, but the traditionalists have already anointed that place as an American shrine. I remember Tiger sounding a lot like Horshel and Poulter in 2010 after a round at PB, a golf course he owns.

 

[Knight_Light]

I remember Tiger sounding a lot like Horshel and Poulter in 2010 after a round at PB, a golf course he owns.

While past US Opens in June at Pebble where always in much tougher playing conditions than the annual Pro-AM in January...the last time the Open was held at Pebble (2010),it was almost a new looking US Open course compared to the one Woods "laughed at" in 2000.

They added tons of new tees (mostly different angles, added some length to this very short course...one of the shortest courses for the US Open over the last 2 decades), shifted fairways closer to the cliffs (as compared to their much safer location for Jan), and of course the greens are shaved much closer, making it extremely hard for pro's to keep incoming shots on those small greens.

With small, fast greens...if the wind blows at Pebble (in US Open conditions), it could be one of the hardest courses to conquer.

Best thing about US Opens at Pebble...almost everyone has a shot to win (even at the new tips it only plays around 7,000 yds), vs some very long courses (that don't have rolling fairways/conditions) that eliminates a huge section of golfers before Day 1.

 

[HeyHuey]

Disagree.

Remember, one of the main reason why Chambers Bay was built was because they were basically promised this US Open.

One of the biggest drawbacks/complaints from FOX and most of the fans attending was that it was impossible to follow groups/players around the course as 5-6 holes were off-limits to fans...which cut down the excitement, either in person or on air.

There is no way to create more fan access up/down 500 ft cliffs.

While 2 of the 18 greens that were resurfaced 2 years ago were far superior than the 16 greens that weren't, all of the other 16 greens would have to be resurfaced (some might undulation taken away), before US Open dares to give that course another date.

Now USGA (and now their long-term partner FOX) have hit a home run with more US Opens on the West Coast and their willingness to carry it in Prime Time.

From 2019-2023, there will be 3 US Opens on the West Coast (all in California), and FOX will carry most of the final groups in East Coast Prime Time.

With a lot of future US Opens coming to the West Coast during those years (which FOX will no doubt appreciate), it eliminates the chances that Chambers Bay would get another one anytime soon.

NOTE: For selfish reasons for Fathers Day...I thought it was great that families could do a lot of events, go to restaurants, etc...all afternoon and Dad's (on the East/Central Time) could still be home by the time the leader's tee'd off (close to 6 pm).

If the railroad wasn't there the course would be surrounded by townhouses. I don't think they ever see another open there. Go back to Shinnecock Hills. (70 trains a day....Jeez.)