Overrated?

[RUich]

I see where this has been stated by the talking heads. Have to think a performance like last night would certainly help to lead to that assessment.
We play a team that is 4-1 on Sunday at their place. I think this will be a watershed kind of game for us. We better show up with a lot more fire in our bellies if we want to win this one.

 

[Rufaninga]

Our fans have over hyped this team.
2 top 3 players = final four run in some Fan's eyes.

We hopefully see a team that gets better every week and plays it's best ball by the end of the year.

It takes a while for teams with an all new roster to gel & perform up to coaches expectations.

We have lots of top talent, but they are all young. Best thing about freshman is they become sophomores (or NBA players). Just means the team should improve as we mature during the season. We are going to have a bumpy ride with ups & downs - just hope we end on the upswing.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

No sane RU fans expect or are discussing a Final Four, this is a roster of 10 new players and a returning player batch of a backup center who is not a complete basketball player, but has size you need in conference games, a very determined and pesky guard in JMIke Davis and a veteran guard playing with a banged up shoulder.

If Tyson Acuff didn't miss the entire summer of workouts and conditioning with a broken foot and this was a roster at full speed and health, then I would have concerns.

Right now (to me) we are getting plenty of mileage out of Derkack, who has outperformed expectations and Lathan Sommerville averaging 11 and 6 as a true freshman.

If anyone was asked if they would sign up for 11 and 6 this past summer, everyone immediately signs up for that, 100%. Crazy thing is, he's putting up numbers in around 23 MPG. I think it's more likely he actually gets better with more reps and minutes.

Gotta get JWill and Acuff going, then we can talk further.

 

[mildone]

It's hard to say right now. Been lots of experimenting going on and the team has yet to play a game with anything approaching 40 minutes of high intensity.

It's a very young team. Which means, unless there are attitude or chemistry problems, development should be very rapid throughout the season. But it also means that we'll need a lot of development to reach our potential.

Preseason rankings are BS. But perhaps, weighing results against preseason ranking, we're overrated right now. But it matters more where the team is come mid-season. Ask this question again then when we have more information.

I will say that I think this team might need a severe ass-kicking or two in order to teach the team the difference in effort level between realized and unrealized potential. We have some very skilled, talented players. But all good basketball teams have skill and talent. We have to beat teams that also have experience and maturity and already know how to win tough games.

Our team is super young and needs to grow up super fast to realize it's potential.

 

[mildone]

No sane RU fans expect or are discussing a Final Four, this is a roster of 10 new players and a returning player batch of a backup center who is not a complete basketball player, but has size you need in conference games, a very determined and pesky guard in JMIke Davis and a veteran guard playing with a banged up shoulder.

If Tyson Acuff didn't miss the entire summer of workouts and conditioning with a broken foot and this was a roster at full speed and health, then I would have concerns.

Right now (to me) we are getting plenty of mileage out of Derkack, who has outperformed expectations and Lathan Sommerville averaging 11 and 6 as a true freshman.

If anyone was asked if they would sign up for 11 and 6 this past summer, everyone immediately signs up for that, 100%. Crazy thing is, he's putting up numbers in around 23 MPG. I think it's more likely he actually gets better with more reps and minutes.

Gotta get JWill and Acuff going, then we can talk further.

I don't think JWill will be a major factor as the season progresses. I think his minutes will be fewer and fewer.

Acuff might be, he's still working himself back into full fitness it seems, and I haven't seen him enough to judge. I hope he will 'cause we'll need him.

 

[FastMJ]

I saw some really bad defense last night. Very disappointing. I don't know if they intentionally prioritized defending the arc, but the number of easy layups was eye opening.

 

[RU-ROCS]

I see where this has been stated by the talking heads. Have to think a performance like last night would certainly help to lead to that assessment.
We play a team that is 4-1 on Sunday at their place. I think this will be a watershed kind of game for us. We better show up with a lot more fire in our bellies if we want to win this one.

RU is totally a work in progress right now. Hopefully they will improve a lot as the season progresses. But certainly right now, we are no where near deserving a Top 25 ranking. That ranking is based on the hype surroinding Dylan and Ace and the promise they bring. Whether that promise is ever realized depends on Pike and his ability to get these players to buy-in and improve substantially as a team, especially on D.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don't think JWill will be a major factor as the season progresses. I think his minutes will be fewer and fewer.

Acuff might be, he's still working himself back into full fitness it seems, and I haven't seen him enough to judge. I hope he will 'cause we'll need him.

I see Dercack,JMike and Jwill in the same bucket. In the end JWill may win.

The question is will Pike allow us to be a below average defensive team knowing he probably has the pieces to be a good one (not elite)

 

[satnom]

Preseason rankings are always based on hype and past performance. Team has a ton of new pieces and young with a lot of talent. Lots of lineup experimenting going on and rotations will be shortened up as better comp is played. Team played very well against strong St. John’s team for 95% of game in first game of season. Things should come together slowly as many of our players are not yet playing at their peak.

Take the Ws as they come and then let’s get ready for teams looking to challenge the “overhyped” RU team to see how our team responds.

GO RU

 

[mildone]

I see Dercack,JMike and Jwill in the same bucket. In the end JWill may win.

The question is will Pike allow us to be a below average defensive team knowing he probably has the pieces to be a good one (not elite)

It's "Derkack", I believe.

Yeah, those three may compete for time amongst each other. But I think each game will be different as to who gets more minutes. Mostly based on matchups, but ultimately who is playing better in a game. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

We don't really need any of the 3 to be scorers. In fact, we probably need all 3 to not try to be scorers too much. We need reliable defenders and rebounders with high assist to turnover ratios.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Until proven otherwise I think the answer is all 3 because Pike will overplay them because he wont be able to help himself.

 

[Arizona Knight]

We don’t know much about this team yet. We held serve against 4 tomato cans. Barring injuries, this team is going to keep getting better.

The March version of this team would kick the snot out of today’s version.

 

[mildone]

We don’t know much about this team yet. We held serve against 4 tomato cans. Barring injuries, this team is going to keep getting better.

The March version of this team would kick the snot out of today’s version.

Barring injury or chemistry or attitude issues, yes, the team should improve by leaps and bounds due to where this team is on the development curve due to it's youth. Huge potential for rapid development as the young players start to click with all the new stuff they're learning.

Is why I won't be overly bothered by early losses (as long as the effort and intensity improves). Is also why I won't form any conclusions about the team at all until around mid-season.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I see where this has been stated by the talking heads. Have to think a performance like last night would certainly help to lead to that assessment.
We play a team that is 4-1 on Sunday at their place. I think this will be a watershed kind of game for us. We better show up with a lot more fire in our bellies if we want to win this one.

Their four wins are not impressive. Two were to D2 teams.

 

[ru66]

Even If RU makes the tournament some around here will bitch unless we get to elite 8 or final 4.

 

[Doctorzit]

It's "Derkack", I believe.

Yeah, those three may compete for time amongst each other. But I think each game will be different as to who gets more minutes. Mostly based on matchups, but ultimately who is playing better in a game. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

We don't really need any of the 3 to be scorers. In fact, we probably need all 3 to not try to be scorers too much. We need reliable defenders and rebounders with high assist to turnover ratios.

The last paragraph in this post needs to be emphasized over and over again!!! All three and especially Derkack and J Mike force unnecessary shots. As usual Pikiells "non-offense " offense hurts the team. His overemphasis of defense actually, in my opinion, makes for bad shooting percentages.

 

[RUisB1Gtime]

Everyone keeps saying we need to say RU vs a good team...We saw it. We gave up 90 points to St John's.....This team will go 500 at absolute best. The only miracle is if our 2 freshman defensive 6'9 wings see the court earlier then expected.....We need defensive athleticism on the perimeter

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Their four wins are not impressive. Two were to D2 teams.

and the other 3 games were against church teams

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

2 STATEMENTS TO KEEP IN MIND ALL YEAR

1. Expect the unexpected
2. Progress is not linear

 

[lion1983]

2 STATEMENTS TO KEEP IN MIND ALL YEAR

1. Expect the unexpected
2. Progress is not linear

I second this post!

 

[rubaseball78]

Need to work on hour help defense. When a player helps on defense, another needs to slide over to cover that player's man. Too often last night someone came to help but no one slid over to cover the vacated offensive player resulting in layups.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

and the other 3 games were against church teams

Miami was picked 6th in the ACC and lost to Drake, considered a middle-of-the-pack (6th) Missouri Valley Conference team. People have to stop underestimating teams from non-power conferences. These teams circle Rutgers on the calendar as "statement" games against a power school. Some of you would rather be critical of Rutgers, but these teams may have played their "A" game because Rutgers is a resume-building game. If you have one or two quality players that can impact the game, they can steal games no one gives them a chance. IMO, Rutgers played these past four games as warmups while looking forward to the Vegas games and league play.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Need to work on hour help defense. When a player helps on defense, another needs to slide over to cover that player's man. Too often last night someone came to help but no one slid over to cover the vacated offensive player resulting in layups.

Help defense is weak, but that comes with being familiar with one another. The on-the-ball defense is okay. They made an effort to hit the boards at both ends and it showed. Truthfully, I see little difference in the current play of Rutgers compared to Iowa in past years. That hasn't stopped Iowa from being one of the top B1G teams with its moments in March Madness.

 

[mildone]

Even If RU makes the tournament some around here will bitch unless we get to elite 8 or final 4.

That's fine. Everybody's entitled to whine about stuff. Everybody does it sometimes.

I won't bitch even if they don't make the tournament. I'll be quietly disappointed and start looking forward to next season is all.

 

[mildone]

The last paragraph in this post needs to be emphasized over and over again!!! All three and especially Derkack and J Mike force unnecessary shots. As usual Pikiells "non-offense " offense hurts the team. His overemphasis of defense actually, in my opinion, makes for bad shooting percentages.

I'm skeptical that Pike doesn't run some sort of offense. And at times, he clearly runs plays to free up certain players for shots. And this season, so far at least, Pike is playing a style that emphasizes quick scoring over slow defensive grinds w/lots of full court presses. Which doesn't fit the non-offense offense narrative very neatly, even if the type of offense isn't what some fans think the team should employ.

I think it's worth considering that what we saw in the past, what we've seen so far this season, and what we'll see this season starting in Vegas, may be 3 very different things.

 

[mildone]

Everyone keeps saying we need to say RU vs a good team...We saw it. We gave up 90 points to St John's.....This team will go 500 at absolute best. The only miracle is if our 2 freshman defensive 6'9 wings see the court earlier then expected.....We need defensive athleticism on the perimeter

While I do think the St. John's team was a better measurement than the next four games, I do not think we can reach conclusions about the entire season from that early game. To do so would be to ignore how much a very young team with an almost entirely brand new roster is likely to develop and improve over the course of the season. And how rapidly that development and improvement might occurs.

Are there causes for concern? Yep. Are there causes for cautious optimism? Yep.

So we wait and see what happens.

 

[mildone]

Need to work on hour help defense. When a player helps on defense, another needs to slide over to cover that player's man. Too often last night someone came to help but no one slid over to cover the vacated offensive player resulting in layups.

I'm pretty sure that Pike is working hard on all aspects of team defense with the team. I see the players attempting to make good switches, attempting to help, and attempting to rotate. The problem is that it's happening a bit too late and, when things break down, the players are slow to recover. Which I suspect is due to intensity (energy & focus).

But we have lots of very young and inexperienced players who are learning how Pike wants to do this stuff. And who might not yet have fully grasped the effort-level (mental and physical) required to achieve a high level of team defense.

Let's see how things progress.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

I see where this has been stated by the talking heads. Have to think a performance like last night would certainly help to lead to that assessment.
We play a team that is 4-1 on Sunday at their place. I think this will be a watershed kind of game for us. We better show up with a lot more fire in our bellies if we want to win this one.

Too early to say. Big E isn't helping, but otherwise, I think team on track. Better D will evolve with better competition.

 

[mildone]

Miami was picked 6th in the ACC and lost to Drake, considered a middle-of-the-pack (6th) Missouri Valley Conference team. People have to stop underestimating teams from non-power conferences. These teams circle Rutgers on the calendar as "statement" games against a power school. Some of you would rather be critical of Rutgers, but these teams may have played their "A" game because Rutgers is a resume-building game. If you have one or two quality players that can impact the game, they can steal games no one gives them a chance. IMO, Rutgers played these past four games as warmups while looking forward to the Vegas games and league play.

Yes, non-power conference teams can be pretty good. Which is why I'm not harping on individual players or the coaching staff. I'm not being critical of the team for the most part, except for a couple things.

The first thing is I've mentioned the lack of a dominant center because it's very likely to be an issue in some games. To ignore that potential weakness would be sticking our heads in the sand. Too early to know how the team will compensate.

And I've increasingly whined about the apparent lack of team-wide, 40 minute, intensity in these four games and in the second half against St. Johns. Because even young players can play with great intensity and focus. There's not a huge learning curve for that. It comes from a culture where older players set an example for younger players and get in their face when the intensity and focus isn't there. It's about coaching that continually presses the point. And it's also about young players figuring it out mentally, not just hearing it and going "yeah yeah", but finally understanding what it takes to win big games.

This team hasn't had an embarrassing loss yet. It might be that the younger players (with whom I've, unsurprisingly, most noticed the lack of proper intensity) will need a wake-up call that hits harder than Pike and crew and the older players can issue. An embarrassing failure can be a great teacher, with the right leadership and guidance.

 

[SBP]

Most ridiculous post thus far . How can ANYONE say or think that? Cause we didn’t win by 25? This team is good, plays complimentary ball, has legit scoring threats, and is growing into a good defensive team. They deserve the ranking as much as anyone in top 25

 

[RUFan20231]

Most ridiculous post thus far . How can ANYONE say or think that? Cause we didn’t win by 25? This team is good, plays complimentary ball, has legit scoring threats, and is growing into a good defensive team. They deserve the ranking as much as anyone in top 25

Great post. If Rutgers won by 20 yesterday, no one would have said a word. But winning by 11 leads to “concern”…

If Ace and Dylan stay healthy, this team is winning 20+ games and finishing as a 6+ seed, and yet a few shots don’t fall yesterday and this board has been in meltdown mode all day. It’s surreal and completely bizarre.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Great post. If Rutgers won by 20 yesterday, no one would have said a word. But winning by 11 leads to “concern”…

If Ace and Dylan stay healthy, this team is winning 20+ games and finishing as a 6+ seed, and yet a few shots don’t fall yesterday and this board has been in meltdown mode all day. It’s surreal and completely bizarre.

That is making a lot of assumptions about us getting better.

Raw data that looks a possession by possession has us in the 70th area.

We certainly can finish with 21 wins and a 6 seed but it will take more than Ace and Dylan staying healthy

 

[mildone]

Most ridiculous post thus far . How can ANYONE say or think that? Cause we didn’t win by 25? This team is good, plays complimentary ball, has legit scoring threats, and is growing into a good defensive team. They deserve the ranking as much as anyone in top 25

If we lose 2 or 3 games in Vegas, or just lose the next game, don't you think our AP and coaches poll rankings will drop? And if the rankings drop, doesn't that therefore mean our preseason ranking was overrated?

I think it's too early to know if a preseason top 25 ranking is overrated or not. I don't think we'll know until after the season is concluded. However, it's never too early to debate the question as a hypothetical, right?

What is ridiculous, is to insist today that the team will wind up ranked a certain way at the end of the season. 'Cause nobody knows that. It's just a wild-ass guess. And it's kinda also ridiculous to get upset with people who's wild-ass guesses are different from our own. Again, because at this stage, nobody knows what will happen.

 

[fluoxetine]

That is making a lot of assumptions about us getting better.

Raw data that looks a possession by possession has us in the 70th area.

We certainly can finish with 21 wins and a 6 seed but it will take more than Ace and Dylan staying healthy

To be fair, Ace missed 50% of those games.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Calm down and take a deep breath . . .

We are 4-0, where we should be. Given Pike’s history of starting slow and taking some wtf losses, we should be relieved.

The supporting cast may not be as good as we hoped, Ace and Dylan may need to start taking more control on offense, and more of the shots as we start playing better teams.

Don’t worry about the Alabama game, we were always likely to lose this game, they play very fast, have great guard and wing play, and shot a ton of threes. It is the kind of team built to handle Pike’s defensive system. We have a punchers chance if Ace and Dylan go crazy and they have an off shooting night, but is was always a low probability game for us.

 

[PaKnight]

I'm pretty sure that Pike is working hard on all aspects of team defense with the team. I see the players attempting to make good switches, attempting to help, and attempting to rotate. The problem is that it's happening a bit too late and, when things break down, the players are slow to recover. Which I suspect is due to intensity (energy & focus).

But we have lots of very young and inexperienced players who are learning how Pike wants to do this stuff. And who might not yet have fully grasped the effort-level (mental and physical) required to achieve a high level of team defense.

Let's see how things progress.

There was a play against Monmouth where Monmouth was in transition and Ace and another player both dropped off the ball to cover the player on the baseline, we ended up giving up an easy 15 footer. It was an error of lack of communication, those things should improve over the course of the season.

 

[Rhuarc]

Calm down and take a deep breath . . .

We are 4-0, where we should be. Given Pike’s history of starting slow and taking some wtf losses, we should be relieved.

The supporting cast may not be as good as we hoped, Ace and Dylan may need to start taking more control on offense, and more of the shots as we start playing better teams.

Don’t worry about the Alabama game, we were always likely to lose this game, they play very fast, have great guard and wing play, and shot a ton of threes. It is the kind of team built to handle Pike’s defensive system. We have a punchers chance if Ace and Dylan go crazy and they have an off shooting night, but is was always a low probability game for us.

I honestly think that we will play well against Alabama as our fast paced style should lead to a heck of a shootout. We clearly have no interest in deflating the ball when its near the end of the game, so it should be pretty wild.

 

[seansherm]

I honestly think that we will play well against Alabama as our fast paced style should lead to a heck of a shootout. We clearly have no interest in deflating the ball when its near the end of the game, so it should be pretty wild.

We are in the bottom half of the country in pace, we don't play fast. In fact, we may be playing slower than LY's total thus far. We aren't full of good half court players, we probably should play faster. Just not sure we have any players in the top 500 nationally after the two kids.

 

[mildone]

I honestly think that we will play well against Alabama as our fast paced style should lead to a heck of a shootout. We clearly have no interest in deflating the ball when its near the end of the game, so it should be pretty wild.

I have absolutely no idea what will happen.

We have yet to play 40 minutes with intensity. I figure, if Alabama plays 40 minutes with good intensity and we do not, they will win. If we play 40 minutes with good intensity and they don't, we will win.

If we both play with intensity, then we both have a chance to win.

I'm very excited to find out what happens.

 

[Shelby65]

Our fans have over hyped this team.
2 top 3 players = final four run in some Fan's eyes.

We hopefully see a team that gets better every week and plays it's best ball by the end of the year.

It takes a while for teams with an all new roster to gel & perform up to coaches expectations.

We have lots of top talent, but they are all young. Best thing about freshman is they become sophomores (or NBA players). Just means the team should improve as we mature during the season. We are going to have a bumpy ride with ups & downs - just hope we end on the upswing.

correction: they are not top 3 players. they are two top pre-season rated freshmen. those two and Flagg will not be the first three college players taken in the draft.

I agree there's much too much Kool-aid drinking around these parts.