Post Mortem.... Near Speechless

[bac2therac]

I will defend him to the end on the stupid aesthetic shit like not calling people out in press conferences or getting T'd up all the time because that stuff is good. The man is a class act, you can admit results are bad without needing to attack every single action that is taken.

Results this year were shit because of roster construction and coaching and that is on Pikiell but it has nothing to do with him not ripping his players at press conferences or because a bench player was singing during a timeout or any of the other extremely stupid bullshit that people on here like to bitch endlessly about.

class act defense may have worked 30 years ago but its all about winning now....psst have they told you they are paying the player $500K to a $1 million and coaches arent making $700K like Fred Hill, they are making $4-5 million.

there are signs that the program lacks accountability...we heard it from the Cam Spencers. We see it during the warmups. we see it on the bench singing Africa, we saw it this year with 2 players that would never be accountable for their mistakes not only because who they are but because their head coach had no one to replace them with.

 

[fluoxetine]

class act defense may have worked 30 years ago but its all about winning now....psst have they told you they are paying the player $500K to a $1 million and coaches arent making $700K like Fred Hill, they are making $4-5 million.

there are signs that the program lacks accountability...we heard it from the Cam Spencers. We see it during the warmups. we see it on the bench singing Africa, we saw it this year with 2 players that would never be accountable for their mistakes not only because who they are but because their head coach had no one to replace them with.

Players not being accountable, example Dean Reiber was singing is just the dumbest shit ever.

The rest, sure, if it wasn’t for the ridiculous contract his seat would be red hot and if there isn’t significant improvement next year he might well get fired.

The adults in the room are capable of making those decisions without whipping themselves into a frenzy about Reiber’s bench antics

 

[bac2therac]

Players not being accountable, example Dean Reiber was singing is just the dumbest shit ever.

The rest, sure, if it wasn’t for the ridiculous contract his seat would be red hot and if there isn’t significant improvement next year he might well get fired.

The adults in the room are capable of making those decisions without whipping themselves into a frenzy about Reiber’s bench antics

I get it, it doesnt go through a computer so its not a valid point

 

[fluoxetine]

I get it, it doesnt go through a computer so its not a valid point

It’s not a valid point because it’s ****ing stupid and this response is also ****ing stupid.

You can’t actually defend the validity of the point so you just resort to this low effort personal attack.

Weak.

 

[bac2therac]

It’s not a valid point because it’s ****ing stupid and this response is also ****ing stupid.

You can’t actually defend the validity of the point so you just resort to this low effort personal attack.

Weak.

and yet you use the same weak type argument about perimeter defense, its just luck

 

[fatsam98]

Players not being accountable, example Dean Reiber was singing is just the dumbest shit ever.

The rest, sure, if it wasn’t for the ridiculous contract his seat would be red hot and if there isn’t significant improvement next year he might well get fired.

The adults in the room are capable of making those decisions without whipping themselves into a frenzy about Reiber’s bench antics

When I talk about accountability, a better example is JMike driving to the rim ad nauseum with almost zero success.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I don't quite understand why people think players or athletes like Montez Mathis, Jacob Young, Caleb McConnell and smart players like Myles Johnson aren't just better players on defense than the recent versions....that was a Top 5 to 20 nationally ranked defense. Those types of players don't fall out of the sky AND play high level defense.....most of those types of players are 5* or very high 4* athletes/players.

I also think the defense wasn't good late vs Iowa, not good at Maryland, not good vs Penn State or Illinois at home... definitely not good vs USC, Purdue etc....

This notion that somehow last night was different is odd.....its not been good most of the year but we lack the players to slow down other good offensive players. If you have too many average players and some that are not true D1 caliber athletes or have B1G level size/length, it's going to look like that on defense. The program like most around the NCAA, are evolving towards more offense and away from being solely reliant on defense.

Once you get past the Top 3 freshman.....Dylan/Ace/Lathan.....do we have another player who starts on some of the NCAA caliber RU rosters a couple of years ago from 2019-2020..... 2020-21, 2021-22???

I don't see players on the last 2 rosters that are better....its simply a talent and athletes issue.

 

[fluoxetine]

and yet you use the same weak type argument about perimeter defense, its just luck

Nope, I have never said anything like that. Luck obviously has an impact from game to game. But you are just not understanding the argument because "it's just luck" is a very bad summary of it.

When I talk about accountability, a better example is JMike driving to the rim ad nauseum with almost zero success.

JMike has cut down on his hopeless drives to the rim though. I mean he still does it sometimes but a lot less than he did earlier in the season.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don't quite understand why people think players or athletes like Montez Mathis, Jacob Young, Caleb McConnell and smart players like Myles Johnson aren't just better players on defense than the recent versions....that was a Top 5 to 20 nationally ranked defense. Those types of players don't fall out of the sky AND play high level defense.....most of those types of players are 5* or very high 4* athletes/players.

I also think the defense wasn't good late vs Iowa, not good at Maryland, not good vs Penn State or Illinois at home... definitely not good vs USC, Purdue etc....

This notion that somehow last night was different is odd.....its not been good most of the year but we lack the players to slow down other good offensive players. If you have too many average players and some that are not true D1 caliber athletes or have B1G level size/length, it's going to look like that on defense. The program like most around the NCAA, are evolving towards more offense and away from being solely reliant on defense.

Once you get past the Top 3 freshman.....Dylan/Ace/Lathan.....do we have another player who starts on some of the NCAA caliber RU rosters a couple of years ago from 2019-2020..... 2020-21, 2021-22???

I don't see players on the last 2 rosters that are better....its simply a talent and athletes issue.

Who said the D was good the rest of the season? Kenpom said we were the 115th ranked D before the Purdue game. That sucks. Now Kenpom says we’re the 135th ranked D. Even worse.

I’m also not sure what point your making in throwing names out of past players. Pike’s very first team at Rutgers ranked 70th in D. Think about that for a minute…

 

[fluoxetine]

Pike’s very first team at Rutgers ranked 70th in D. Think about that for a minute…

Pike also had better ranked defenses at Stony Brook in:
2008-09
2010-11
2011-12
2012-13
2014-15
2015-16

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Nope, I have never said anything like that. Luck obviously has an impact from game to game. But you are just not understanding the argument because "it's just luck" is a very bad summary of it.


JMike has cut down on his hopeless drives to the rim though. I mean he still does it sometimes but a lot less than he did earlier in the season.

I mean, early on, when Purdue was at like 70% from 3, some of that had to be luck. But by the end of the game it normalized considerably. They were 50% from the game and I honestly don’t think a single one of their attempts was contested in the slightest way. Considering who took the shots, it doesn’t seem like luck that they connected on half of their wide open attempts sadly. The two guys that hit most of them are both over 40% of the season overall.

The hopeless drives are bad, but the bigger problem with J Mike looking ahead is his difficulty finishing consistently in transition. Thats the diffeeence between him, and say, Tez who wasn’t efficient but was good at finishing in transition. As long as you have that, some inefficiency with shooting can be overcome by creating offense from defense. We lacked that last year since none of our guards could finish.

 

[fluoxetine]

I mean, early on, when Purdue was at like 70% from 3, some of that had to be luck. But by the end of the game it normalized considerably. They were 50% from the game and I honestly don’t think a single one of their attempts was contested in the slightest way. Considering who took the shots, it doesn’t seem like luck that they connected on half of their wide open attempts sadly. The two guys that hit most of them are both over 40% of the season overall.

The hopeless drives are bad, but the bigger problem with J Mike looking ahead is his difficulty finishing consistently in transition. Thats the diffeeence between him, and say, Tez who wasn’t efficient but was good at finishing in transition. As long as you have that, some inefficiency with shooting can be overcome by creating offense from defense. We lacked that last year since none of our guards could finish.

Yeah, I would guess Purdue hit 1 or 2 over their expectation but luck was not a major factor in this specific game.

 

[goru7]

I have been a huge Pike supporter because there are reasons things happen game to game that make sense from a basketball perspective. I analyze it and then I either agree or disagree.
Last night had to be Pike’s worst game plan in 9 years. There is no way to defend it and some will say the players can be blamed equally , but that was not the case last night.
In what world would you allow Loyer and Smith to hit 7-8 uncontested 3’s with no one and the same zip code on almost all of Loyer ‘s threes. I can live with Kaufman Renn getting his 20 -25 down low because Lathan can only do so much. But anyone with a clue about beating Purdue and Pike knows how , would never let them shoot 3’s uncontested. It was so baffling that our guys were not guarded their guys closely.

A shame because the game started great and after our 8 point possession to go up 27-19 , I immediately said great just do not give up 3’s , let them claw back 2 points at a time while they were not stopping us. We do the exact opposite and give up a 3 and then Dylan not guarding closely initially gives up a 4 point play when he tries to contest. You let them score 7 points in 2 possessions instead of 3 or 4 possessions and they changed the momentum. Again , I ask why the failure to guard our men closely ? We have 3 point guard assistant coaches and not one of them saw that we had to get up on Purdue. They are not very athletic and it should have been a mandatory part of the game plan but it wasn’t. Pike deserves the blame but worse he doesn’t correct it after 1-3 of Loyer’s open shots and leaves him uncovered. Robby Hummel on the broadcast was baffled saying Rutgers is treating Loyer like he is not on the court leaving him all alone and then they laughed that he must have a contagious illness because no Rutgers player was anywhere near him. That’s embarrassing and that is on Pike. A coach that is considered an outstanding defensive coach could not figure out the adjustment . Steve did a terrible job last night and maybe I am the only one that believes it , but if he guarded the 3 Ann’s gave up 2’s to Kaufman Renn , the game would have been competitive to the end.

One other point , you never and o mean you never take out a player when he is hot. ACE on both ends shooting , driving and rebounding and blocking shots in the first 5-6 minutes looked like he was going to put up a 30 piece. Pike ‘s sub was unnecessary.
Pike ‘s subbing of his first team was unnecessary. Lathan started well , Grant started well , ACE was on fire , Jeremiah was okay and only Dylan was slow starting. Keep them in the game to the 10 minute mark and see what happens instead of just subbing for subbing sake.

I am bitterly disappointed in this year and in Pike and we have the talent and ability to be much better than 14-16 and the things I saw tonight with the supposed game plan and the lack of adjustments was bad. Purdue in my opinion is not that good. Smith and Kaufman Renn are very good but Loyer and the rest of the cast are not very good and because we left them unguarded they made us pay.

 

[RUDivision]

You let your emotions and results-oriented thinking cloud your judgement. You would be better off in the land of the spreadsheets.

So agreed! Life is results oriented so yes I judge a highly paid employ on his results.

That has nothing to do with blowing a huge lead in Michigan followed by a game where you don’t show up and get completely embarrassed and then don’t show up for your required media press conference.

It is weak and shows no leadership or accountability . A team takes its identity from its head coach. This year the team has been weak shown zero leadership and accountability.

So, yes I lose respect for him not showing up

 

[RUDivision]

If only he said the right thing in the press conference everyone would be happy.

Not about saying the right thing it’s about showing accountability and leadership.

We have not had it all year but it starts at the top.

 

[bac2therac]

So agreed! Life is results oriented so yes I judge a highly paid employ on his results.

That has nothing to do with blowing a huge lead in Michigan followed by a game where you don’t show up and get completely embarrassed and then don’t show up for your required media press conference.

It is weak and shows no leadership or accountability . A team takes its identity from its head coach. This year the team has been weak shown zero leadership and accountability.

So, yes I lose respect for him not showing up

throwing f bombs because you were powerless while your team hit only 3 fg in the last 11 minutes wasting a once in a lifetime offensive performance in the first half and lamenting how sad you are for them despite the fact they played like ass the last 11 minutes and then not showing up for a mailed in performance shows ZERO leadership and accountabilty starts at the top...pike low energy..team low energy without aspirations and goals

 

[bac2therac]

I don't quite understand why people think players or athletes like Montez Mathis, Jacob Young, Caleb McConnell and smart players like Myles Johnson aren't just better players on defense than the recent versions....that was a Top 5 to 20 nationally ranked defense. Those types of players don't fall out of the sky AND play high level defense.....most of those types of players are 5* or very high 4* athletes/players.

I also think the defense wasn't good late vs Iowa, not good at Maryland, not good vs Penn State or Illinois at home... definitely not good vs USC, Purdue etc....

This notion that somehow last night was different is odd.....its not been good most of the year but we lack the players to slow down other good offensive players. If you have too many average players and some that are not true D1 caliber athletes or have B1G level size/length, it's going to look like that on defense. The program like most around the NCAA, are evolving towards more offense and away from being solely reliant on defense.

Once you get past the Top 3 freshman.....Dylan/Ace/Lathan.....do we have another player who starts on some of the NCAA caliber RU rosters a couple of years ago from 2019-2020..... 2020-21, 2021-22???

I don't see players on the last 2 rosters that are better....its simply a talent and athletes issue.

horrid recruiting for years from Pike is the bottom line...and total misreads on so called elite recruits like Griffiths and Jones

 

[bitnez]

You can love Pike but if you don't admit he has done a bad job this year you're simply not being honest. I get it -- he took a shot on some guys and didn't work out. Fair enough, but I'm not talking about the roster. I'm talking about getting a group of players (some elite and others marginal at best) and figuring out a way to win games. If he couldn't get them to play defense (and he didn't) Pike should have leaned in on on the offense and pivoted to playing fast and trying to outscore other teams. That's what Fran did the past few years at Iowa.

 

[RUDivision]

Remind me how they did against Maryland and Rutgers AFTER that press conference. Literally half the losing streak occurred after his rant.

Has it occurred to the posturing fake tough guy idiot contingent that they righted the ship because Cronin is a good coach and they are a good team and not because he got frustrated in a press conference and got himself thrown out of the next game?

Let’s not forget the loss to us and subsequent was while his team was on the road and everything back home was burning to the ground. Might have impacted them a little?

Cronin made a point which he carried over to practice and the team responded.

Pike guys take his personality on and even quit mid game., No accountability so they don’t care.,,

 

[fluoxetine]

Let’s not forget the loss to us and subsequent was while his team was on the road and everything back home was burning to the ground. Might have impacted them a little?

Cronin made a point which he carried over to practice and the team responded.

Pike guys take his personality on and even quit mid game., No accountability so they don’t care.,,

He did a thing and after two subsequent games they started playing better. Yes, great evidence for the efficacy of the thing.

 

[RUDivision]

I will defend him to the end on the stupid aesthetic shit like not calling people out in press conferences or getting T'd up all the time because that stuff is good. The man is a class act, you can admit results are bad without needing to attack every single action that is taken.

Results this year were shit because of roster construction and coaching and that is on Pikiell but it has nothing to do with him not ripping his players at press conferences or because a bench player was singing during a timeout or any of the other extremely stupid bullshit that people on here like to bitch endlessly about.

It shows lack of accountability and structure of the team and lack of respect for Pike. Hey, if he’s cool with then fine because ultimately it will cost him his job

 

[fluoxetine]

It shows lack of accountability and structure of the team and lack of respect for Pike. Hey, if he’s cool with then fine because ultimately it will cost him his job

No, it shows that fans are stupid. The results on the court may in fact cost him his job but it will have literally zero to do with Dean Reiber's dancing and his lack of being an ass in press conferences is actually a positive factor (though also essentially a zero because at the end of the day, barring scandal, results on the court are all that really matter.)

 

[RUDivision]

No, it shows that fans are stupid. The results on the court may in fact cost him his job but it will have literally zero to do with Dean Reiber's dancing and his lack of being an ass in press conferences is actually a positive factor (though also essentially a zero because at the end of the day, barring scandal, results on the court are all that really matter.)

It’s ok you have never played a sport so you do not understand about being locked into a game. So much you can learn by paying attention before your number is called. What player is hot , what types of action are the opposing team trying to run. Where are the screens coming from? Who is being used to double ? Little things that add up to winning.

It’s complete disrespect to your coach and teammates.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Yeah, I would guess Purdue hit 1 or 2 over their expectation but luck was not a major factor in this specific game.

to quote Robbie Hummel in game last night... "Shooting Practice"

 

[DHajekRC84]

So agreed! Life is results oriented so yes I judge a highly paid employ on his results.

That has nothing to do with blowing a huge lead in Michigan followed by a game where you don’t show up and get completely embarrassed and then don’t show up for your required media press conference.

It is weak and shows no leadership or accountability . A team takes its identity from its head coach. This year the team has been weak shown zero leadership and accountability.

So, yes I lose respect for him not showing up

as we've heard before ..accountability is lacking in this program. You can see the undisciplined play over the years with your own eyes.

 

[fluoxetine]

It’s ok you have never played a sport so you do not understand about being locked into a game. So much you can learn by paying attention before your number is called. What player is hot , what types of action are the opposing team trying to run. Where are the screens coming from? Who is being used to double ? Little things that add up to winning.

It’s complete disrespect to your coach and teammates.

I guarantee I am currently better at multiple sports than you have ever been at any. These kinds of posts are one of the ways people out themselves as having zero understanding of this stuff as players being loose is generally a positive factor.

But that aside, it was during a timeout and Pike wasn't currently talking to him lol. There was nothing to pay attention to. If Pike was giving a speech and Reiber was off to the side doing a funny dance instead of listening this would be a different conversation.. is THAT what you people think happened there??? It would explain a lot if so.

 

[fluoxetine]

to quote Robbie Hummel in game last night... "Shooting Practice"

Yup, our defense is atrocious and has been all season.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Let’s not forget the loss to us and subsequent was while his team was on the road and everything back home was burning to the ground. Might have impacted them a little?

Cronin made a point which he carried over to practice and the team responded.

Pike guys take his personality on and even quit mid game., No accountability so they don’t care.,,

Harper looked un-interested from the start and his 1 rebound (like most of the team ex. Ace and JMac..who at least gives 100%) was very disappointing. And no, I am not blaming the loss on him but I sure would love better leadership out there.

 

[RUDivision]

I guarantee I am currently better at multiple sports than you have ever been at any. These kinds of posts are one of the ways people out themselves as having zero understanding of this stuff as players being loose is generally a positive factor.

But that aside, it was during a timeout and Pike wasn't currently talking to him lol. There was nothing to pay attention to. If Pike was giving a speech and Reiber was off to the side doing a funny dance instead of listening this would be a different conversation.. is THAT what you people think happened there??? It would explain a lot if so.

You pick the sport and the place ! Money wagered goes to Nil!

 

[bac2therac]

I guarantee I am currently better at multiple sports than you have ever been at any. These kinds of posts are one of the ways people out themselves as having zero understanding of this stuff as players being loose is generally a positive factor.

But that aside, it was during a timeout and Pike wasn't currently talking to him lol. There was nothing to pay attention to. If Pike was giving a speech and Reiber was off to the side doing a funny dance instead of listening this would be a different conversation.. is THAT what you people think happened there??? It would explain a lot if so.

it wasnt just him it was most of the bench...its called tuned into the game...just like J Will smiling after losses or players chirping with fans

it cannot be measured by a model so you dismiss it

 

[fluoxetine]

it cannot be measured by a model so you dismiss it

No, stop this nonsense.

Focus and caring about the game obviously matter. The issue is you people have no idea what it looks like; you think it means looking serious all the time or having performative outbursts after bad performances.

I will tell you that getting my emotions under control while engaged in competitive endeavors has been a great improvement in performance; dumb asses on this board would tell you I no longer care because I'm not smashing shit like I did in high school after a bad shot.

 

[fatsam98]

to quote Robbie Hummel in game last night... "Shooting Practice"

Different from the usual layup line, I guess

 

[RUDivision]

Yup, our defense is atrocious and has been all season.

But JMike and Jwill played big minutes on a team that finished 5th defensively so that doesn’t add up!

 

[goru7]

But JMike and Jwill played big minutes on a team that finished 5th defensively so that doesn’t add up!

JMike and Jeremiah to a lesser extent than Jmike have been atrocious defensively. JMike hasn’t fought off 1 screen all year and still guys blow by him. Yesterday instead of staying up in Smith’s grill he dropped back 5 feet allowing himself to be screened more easily. Worst defensive play I have seen. Watch Houston or St. John guards fight over screens.

 

[RocktheRac]

You can't even call the game last night a clown show because it would be a direct insult to clowns.

 

[seansherm]

I don't quite understand why people think players or athletes like Montez Mathis, Jacob Young, Caleb McConnell and smart players like Myles Johnson aren't just better players on defense than the recent versions....that was a Top 5 to 20 nationally ranked defense. Those types of players don't fall out of the sky AND play high level defense.....most of those types of players are 5* or very high 4* athletes/players.

I also think the defense wasn't good late vs Iowa, not good at Maryland, not good vs Penn State or Illinois at home... definitely not good vs USC, Purdue etc....

This notion that somehow last night was different is odd.....its not been good most of the year but we lack the players to slow down other good offensive players. If you have too many average players and some that are not true D1 caliber athletes or have B1G level size/length, it's going to look like that on defense. The program like most around the NCAA, are evolving towards more offense and away from being solely reliant on defense.

Once you get past the Top 3 freshman.....Dylan/Ace/Lathan.....do we have another player who starts on some of the NCAA caliber RU rosters a couple of years ago from 2019-2020..... 2020-21, 2021-22???

I don't see players on the last 2 rosters that are better....its simply a talent and athletes issue.

I don't think anyone thinks the defense has been good at any time this year, last night was just a special sucktitude.

Lathan doesn't start on any of Pike's good teams. At least freshman Lathan doesn't.

 

[fluoxetine]

But JMike and Jwill played big minutes on a team that finished 5th defensively so that doesn’t add up!

(1) 5th defensively is a season long metric. Williams only played an average of 10mpg across the whole season. Even JMike only played 22. I would not qualify that as "big minutes".

(2) It doesn't particularly surprise me that the same two guys can make up 16.1% of the total court time on the #5 team and also 20.3% of the total court time on the #135 team. There is a lot more to the team than those two guys.

(3) Even if it did surprise me, what is your point? It is objectively a thing that happened.

 

[seansherm]

it wasnt just him it was most of the bench...its called tuned into the game...just like J Will smiling after losses or players chirping with fans

it cannot be measured by a model so you dismiss it

I'd like to say "tuned into the game" is a real thing, but it really isn't anymore. Heck, aren't there pro football players reading books openly on the sideline now? Nothing that happens on the bench matters.

 

[RUDivision]

(1) 5th defensively is a season long metric. Williams only played an average of 10mpg across the whole season. Even JMike only played 22. I would not qualify that as "big minutes".

(2) It doesn't particularly surprise me that the same two guys can make up 16.1% of the total court time on the #5 team and also 20.3% of the total court time on the #135 team. There is a lot more to the team than those two guys.

(3) Even if it did surprise me, what is your point? It is objectively a thing that happened.

Agreed and objectively they have regressed tremendously. So, objectively how can anyone believe Pike will return to his defensive prowess with those as his cornerstones on D???

Objectively of course

 

[fluoxetine]

Agreed and objectively they have regressed tremendously. So, objectively how can anyone believe Pike will return to his defensive prowess with those as his cornerstones on D???

Objectively of course

Objectively they regressed tremendously? Based on what? Do you have something to back that up beyond the fact that they were on a good team and then a bad team?

I'm not sure I claimed those two would be "cornerstones" on D. I just said they were good enough to be contributors on a good defensive team.