Michigan is a blue blood school. Any school that draws out of state fans that aren’t alums is a massive school. Think SEC, Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.
Recruiting
- Thread starter Racpack
- Start date
You are probably correct in that each recruit has a different reason for going elsewhere.
I hope these high school juniors who choose a school based on NIL money get a written guarantee. What happens if they get hurt, don't become a starter, the coach takes another job, or they are not paid? When do they receive their first pay check -when they commit, when they sign the commitment letter in October of their senior year in high school, or when they enroll? What recourse does a student have if NIL payments aren't made? Who do they sue? The coach, the school, or the bag man?
For those that don't base their decision on NIL, their rejection of RU may be based upon the quality of the Rutgers coaching staff compared to the competition (we have only 1 All American coach - Pritzlaff), the quality of our RTC athletes (only 1 credentialed athlete - Rivera), the academic rating of RU compared to the Ivies, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, Wisconsin, and UNC.. Also the fact that Ashnault, the face of our program for six years and only undefeated RU national champ is not longer associated with the program cannot be a plus.
Better start relying on strictly portal recruiting because HS kids avoid RU like the plague.
Team needs to just punt on HS recruiting and go gangbusters in the portal at this point. I'd rather have a team of 22-23 year old men year in and year out than 18 year old kids anyway.
Coaches still need to grind out the HS recruiting trail but agree need to keep hitting the portal hard! Very frustrating as big RU fan, Delbarton and Blair kids are almost impossible to get, but we need to land some of the other top NJ kids!
How does Missouri get a kid from the Lehigh Valley?
Just listened to Rath's recruitment interview. He mentioned the Missouri's coaches. They include an All American heavyweight coach, a three-time All American who wrestled for Michigan, and a his primary recruiter Kendrick Maple, a three time AA and national champ as well as winner of the 2018 Freestyle World Cup. Rath also mentioned that the Missouri culture called Tiger Style impressed him.. Each week he received a card with one aspect of Tiger Style highlighted.. On the reverse side of the card was how wrestlers live the listed aspect of Tiger Style. He clearly connected with the coaches, the team's culture, and the way Missouri wrestles saying they are good on their feet and with cradles.
Our insiders, Lex, WNG. and Mike Messner, have listed top targets who made visits this fall. They include Botero, the two Cortez brothers, Chapman, DeLuca, Henckel, Knox, Lavalle, Parkins, and Rath. We lost out on all these kids except for Chapman and Parkins who selected the good guys. Henckel has yet to declare.
Goodale and staff often posted photos of official visits with mosts of these kids. These photos got me and other fans excited. No one expected us to get everyone. But it is really disappointing that we lost out on the #4, #6, #9, #16, #36, #38, #46, and #67 of the top 100 ranked recruits, We got # 45 Parkins and # 68 Chapman. I don't know if we went after Ludington ranked #13 from Brick Memorial who is going to Arizona State.
Something is not working.
Just listened to Rath's recruitment interview. He mentioned the Missouri's coaches. They include an All American heavyweight coach, a three-time All American who wrestled for Michigan, and a his primary recruiter Kendrick Maple, a three time AA and national champ as well as winner of the 2018 Freestyle World Cup. Rath also mentioned that the Missouri culture called Tiger Style impressed him.. Each week he received a card with one aspect of Tiger Style highlighted.. On the reverse side of the card was how wrestlers live the listed aspect of Tiger Style. He clearly connected with the coaches, the team's culture, and the way Missouri wrestles saying they are good on their feet and with cradles.
Our insiders, Lex, WNG. and Mike Messner, have listed top targets who made visits this fall. They include Botero, the two Cortez brothers, Chapman, DeLuca, Henckel, Knox, Lavalle, Parkins, and Rath. We lost out on all these kids except for Chapman and Parkins who selected the good guys. Henckel has yet to declare.
Goodale and staff often posted photos of official visits with mosts of these kids. These photos got me and other fans excited. No one expected us to get everyone. But it is really disappointing that we lost out on the #4, #6, #9, #16, #36, #38, #46, and #67 of the top 100 ranked recruits, We got # 45 Parkins and # 68 Chapman. I don't know if we went after Ludington ranked #13 from Brick Memorial who is going to Arizona State.
Something is not working.
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With our current staff we’re gonna be what we are now.. a perennial 15-25 team. We’ll win some matches but get hammered by good teams.
I’m sure we have coaches in the staff who are good coaches, but when you’re recruiting the best in the country you people with credentials, on staff, and as workout partners in the room. It’s a bad look having two fairly recent champs turn their backs on the program.
Hopefully Poz or Dean or someone else can emerge as legit national level player and become new face of program. Are all bridges burned with AA? Given the silence in the matter, I can only assume yes, but let’s not kid ourselves — that’s a massive setback.
Thank God for Donny. The guy is the best of the best of coaches. But overall as far major players in the sport go, overall our house is just too light.
Hopefully Poz or Dean or someone else can emerge as legit national level player and become new face of program. Are all bridges burned with AA? Given the silence in the matter, I can only assume yes, but let’s not kid ourselves — that’s a massive setback.
Thank God for Donny. The guy is the best of the best of coaches. But overall as far major players in the sport go, overall our house is just too light.
That said, don’t underestimate Chapman as a recruit. Major upside within that one.
But guys like Poz Saldono White and Chapman are loyal local kids who went to public HS and likely grew up as fans likely being a big reason why they’re here. It’s landing the high level kids where that isn’t a factor where we need to improve. We’ve got a few, not saying we haven’t, but for the program to take that next elusive step, we need more.
But guys like Poz Saldono White and Chapman are loyal local kids who went to public HS and likely grew up as fans likely being a big reason why they’re here. It’s landing the high level kids where that isn’t a factor where we need to improve. We’ve got a few, not saying we haven’t, but for the program to take that next elusive step, we need more.
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Ashnault was working out in the room over Thanksgiving.
Great to hear. Would be awesome if we could get him back.
It’s not about the staff.. it’s about recruiting the best kids to break the perennial 15-25 team. u can have the best staff, facility, workout partners etc but if u don’t have the best recruits u won’t score much pts at nationals.. and to get the best recruits seems like money is the main issue.
Don’t be naive folks. Kids will interview after choosing a school and talk about the coaches, workout partners, etc but will never admit it is about what they are being PAID!
There is a lot of hearsay out there. I don't know the facts or what to believe. It would be good to have facts and not just rumors. Please explain when these kids get the NIL money and how is it guaranteed.
If you listen to Rath's interview, the team culture, coaches, and wrestling style had a big impact. If he got money, did Missouri outbid the other schools or were non-NIL considerations the deciding factors.
We may not win a big money battle. We won't lose the facilities battle, the fan base battle, the recruiting base battle, the media battle, and the battle for athletic department support.
We lose the coaches credential battle. and it is fixable. Our only All-American coach is Pritzlaff. All of our coaches haven't even competed in the NCAA tournament?
We lose the senior athlete battle. We have Rivera who has great credentials. But no one else. We have no one competing in the senior nationals later this month. Even the NJRTC-Princeton has Matt Kolodzik, Nate Jackson, and Quincy Monday entered. And they just signed Chance Marsteller, who beat Burroughs at Final X. High school kids have ambitions and look to see what senior athletes they can train with. Both Suriano and Ashnault are competing in the senior nationals. But are not SKWC athletes. Ashnault is training nearby with the NYCRTC in Hoboken. Suriano seems to be all is over the place.
We need the be highly competitive in areas that we can control. If the message is, we aren't going to be competitive for the sole reason of NIL money, some fans may lose their passion for the program. I know none of us wants Rutgers to go backward.
If you listen to Rath's interview, the team culture, coaches, and wrestling style had a big impact. If he got money, did Missouri outbid the other schools or were non-NIL considerations the deciding factors.
We may not win a big money battle. We won't lose the facilities battle, the fan base battle, the recruiting base battle, the media battle, and the battle for athletic department support.
We lose the coaches credential battle. and it is fixable. Our only All-American coach is Pritzlaff. All of our coaches haven't even competed in the NCAA tournament?
We lose the senior athlete battle. We have Rivera who has great credentials. But no one else. We have no one competing in the senior nationals later this month. Even the NJRTC-Princeton has Matt Kolodzik, Nate Jackson, and Quincy Monday entered. And they just signed Chance Marsteller, who beat Burroughs at Final X. High school kids have ambitions and look to see what senior athletes they can train with. Both Suriano and Ashnault are competing in the senior nationals. But are not SKWC athletes. Ashnault is training nearby with the NYCRTC in Hoboken. Suriano seems to be all is over the place.
We need the be highly competitive in areas that we can control. If the message is, we aren't going to be competitive for the sole reason of NIL money, some fans may lose their passion for the program. I know none of us wants Rutgers to go backward.
Do you ever get tired of posting the same stuff all the time? I mean this is honestly probably like the 6th time you’ve posted these same exact observations in the last 6 months. Bro, just move on to a new team, you obviously aren’t happy with the state of the team, or its future. Either sit back and enjoy the show or go somewhere else, my god.
OK - You could always root for illinois:
Mike Poeta
IMar
Austin O'Connor
Jeremy Hunter
5 Titles between the 4, way more ncaa appearances. That's a whole lot to work with -- Currently ranked #25.
Not shitting on them either - It's tough to continually build a program. Not for nothing else, but if you've never went into the room for an in-season college practice, summer time open mat, or SKWC, you have no clue the caliber of coaches we have in the room.
Go check out a practice! I think you would change your mind.
Peteras - you make a good point. when I am in area over the summer will try to attend a practice. I am sure that the practices are well run. I am not sure I know how to evaluate a practice.
I looked at the Illinois coaching staff and I don't think it is a fair comparison. Mike Poeta, became the head coach in 2021. Hunter has has been an assistant for about 20 years. Martinez is in his second season on staff and O'Connor just joined the staff this year. I would give Poeta more than 2 years to make a fair comparison to Goodale who has been here since 2007. No question that Goodale is enthusiastic and took our program from ground zero to a solid top twenty team.
I donate to the program and believe we should be a top ten program. I try to be objective and look at facts and results. My opinion will change when our results change or when someone posts the actual facts about NIL so a fair comparison can be made.
I looked at the Illinois coaching staff and I don't think it is a fair comparison. Mike Poeta, became the head coach in 2021. Hunter has has been an assistant for about 20 years. Martinez is in his second season on staff and O'Connor just joined the staff this year. I would give Poeta more than 2 years to make a fair comparison to Goodale who has been here since 2007. No question that Goodale is enthusiastic and took our program from ground zero to a solid top twenty team.
I donate to the program and believe we should be a top ten program. I try to be objective and look at facts and results. My opinion will change when our results change or when someone posts the actual facts about NIL so a fair comparison can be made.
Their facilities are ass though. That probably hurts them a lot and just like us, they have a top academic school next door in NW.
Football I know, wrestling not so much. ( Me Syracuse, Son # 1 UCinn, #2 Illinois, # 3 Navy)
I have a Grandson entering HS in Conn, who is rated # 2 of all weights of incoming Frosh in New England. 7 & 8 grades Champion in New England at 2 diff weights.
He just competed/placed to # 3 @ 150, of ALL kids 9th-12th grade in NE.
My Dad played for RU in football and lacrosse, Coached football as OL assistant.
Me- Ex NJSP.
When, what should I know ?
I have a Grandson entering HS in Conn, who is rated # 2 of all weights of incoming Frosh in New England. 7 & 8 grades Champion in New England at 2 diff weights.
He just competed/placed to # 3 @ 150, of ALL kids 9th-12th grade in NE.
My Dad played for RU in football and lacrosse, Coached football as OL assistant.
Me- Ex NJSP.
When, what should I know ?
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Is he going to CT public? CT is a funny state for wrestling because they usually produce a couple of studs like Henkel (Blair) or Singer bros (Faith Christian) but high school ranks are thin.
He is at Newtown HS.
He's friends with Nick Singer from when Nick's Family lived in Conn.
Awarded "most dominant wrestler", New England Elementary/Middle schools Invitational.
Jeff Jordan & his Son, Bo speak well of him at Jordan camps for High School Champs, Jeff made room for him.
On track age wise 15 entering high school. Math savant, with 5 A's and a B first semester 9 th grade.
I went to PG prep school for 2 years as I graduated HS at just 17. Wrestling ?
He's friends with Nick Singer from when Nick's Family lived in Conn.
Awarded "most dominant wrestler", New England Elementary/Middle schools Invitational.
Jeff Jordan & his Son, Bo speak well of him at Jordan camps for High School Champs, Jeff made room for him.
On track age wise 15 entering high school. Math savant, with 5 A's and a B first semester 9 th grade.
I went to PG prep school for 2 years as I graduated HS at just 17. Wrestling ?
Rath Dad emailed the staff at Mizzu is how he ended up there. So don't keep blaming the staffs for everything. Mizzu wasn't recruiting Rath and got him. Most posters have NO clue how recruiting works.
I am fully cognizant on football recruiting, except $ amount with NIL, as 3 generations of my family used football.
Now I need help with wrestling !
Conner Harer wins opening tournament. If we are fortunate to also get his brother Brandt he took out Anthony Muteralli and then majored number 3 kid in state 14-1and win the ow
If I were to visit a Rutgers football practice, I might think they're on their way to greatness. The point is that without similar experiences where comparisons can be made, there is little to learn from visiting one program's practice. Without the ability to assess multiple programs, we have only the measurable results that we can see. We can measure year-over-year improvement in wrestler's records, team performance, and recruiting success. From those, we develop our perceptions, which become our reality.
This is a direct response to multiple posts I've seen talking about the "need" for NCAA champs as coaches. I'm showing another program that has that need and comparing results.
Don't get me wrong, I'm always open to additional coaches and pulling in guys who have recent success. Never know who becomes a great coach -- but you don't need to be an NCAA champion to teach high level technique and be an effective coach in the room. That is my point.
I somewhat agree. However, my point is that it is impossible to make qualitative assessments without other sample data. To your point, few know that Cliff Loysen from JP Stevens' glory days did not have wrestling experience. He hung out at Rutgers practices before becoming a teacher, then became coach of a new program in Edison. He was a very successful high school coach. Further to your point, it is very possible for a head coach with even minimal experience to be successful if he knows how to manage a program and leverage his assistants. You will see this in corporate leadership, where chief executives surround themselves with talent and delegate for the greatest advantage. Rutgers needs more than one accomplished coach. They need that for developing the kids and attracting recruits. It's not just about money.
If we had something qualitative that we could break down that accounts for the countless variables in a sport like ours, I would welcome it with open arms. Heck, I've said similar things to what you have mentioned here - can we try to poll kids on the way in/out on what their decision criteria is?
Can't make things better if we can't both accurately describe the problem AND where the gaps lie/how to bridge them.
With all that said, when I mention going into the room, talking with coaching staff, etc, it also gives a better picture of what's going on / the work going into attracting/developing recruits.
In sports there are just people that have the "gift" to recruit, no matter the record or the facility.
In football they get a rep and get accolades for their success.
A school that goes up or down depending on the Staff, rather than what facilities are there and what their long term rep is, has recruiters !
In football they get a rep and get accolades for their success.
A school that goes up or down depending on the Staff, rather than what facilities are there and what their long term rep is, has recruiters !
Paul Kenny wins his first high school match by pin against Brady Klinsky who could be on the podium in March. Look out.
Kenny will be a potential 4x state champ.. possibly an undefeated NJ one too…. Looking far into the future.. we need to do everything possible to land Kenny..
Good luck with that. Given Ashnault's involvement with Kenny, epic failure if he goes elsewhere. But I'll bet Rutgers is on his list until the end.
Yes, I asked about that long ago. To me, it's a stunning gap in understanding. Some pretend to know why top recruits go elsewhere or they are just happy to believe the most convenient answers. I don't know of any program ratings done by anyone, but it is quite possible and will be informative if done right. We can't rely on what the kids say to the losing coaches because of the sensitivity of feelings. Without honest and accurate feedback, we'll continue spinning our wheels.
