RU Wrestling 5th In Nation In Operating Budget
- Thread starter bigmatt718
- Start date
Really need to see the actual data for each school and this is just public schools so it doesn't include Ivy. I know the NJ cost of living is higher but I have an extremely hard time believing we're outspending Michigan in anything. Also curious is that John Smith's salary was over $562K in 2022, 2x+ more than Goodale, so I really need to see the data and sources.
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It excludes NIL but this data is surprising. It also blows up the narrative that we are doing more with less. Something doesn’t add up because we have been told for years that we are getting by on a shoestring budget.
This is extremely eye opening and concerning…not saying the data is 100% correct or apples to apples in all cases but it’s not a great look for the program regardless
The list maybe off some but not by 16/17 places. Only Oklahoma does less with more. I've always said, with the resources and fan support we have, we should not be finishing 9th or lower in the B1G or just nipping at the Top 20 ever. Yet we do it far too often.
Oklahoma flat out sucks. The fact that they're 3rd on this list and aren't even Top 25 at Nationals is humiliating.
This does not include the budgets of the RTCs, where I assume we are not even top 25 with only Rivera and Bagakov. This has long been been a deficiency.
You guys might want to look at Leonard's thread on RTCs, SKWC, NJRTC .... Those guys running it do a great job and for RTCs associated with their schools it's in the top 20.
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This isn't really eye opening because we have no idea what the actual data is, and every school accounts differently. Do you really think OKST spends less than us, when Smith's salary is 2x+ more than Goodale's, even accounting for the higher cost of living here?
We can always nitpick or split hairs whether it’s completely accurate (which I assume it’s not 100%) but this is the data that’s out there and being talked about in the community unfortunately… and it’s not a great narrative.
Connor Harer and Smith win the Dapper Dan in Pittsburg
SKWC raised the 5th highest amount among RTCs in 2022. according the SKWC in the other thread.
SKWC was 10th (Note: the list is not in descending order for 2022), which begs the question why we only have two resident athletes. For comparison, the other RTCs with comparable 2022 revenues have many more resident athletes:
- Penn WC - $872K, 6 athletes
- NYC RTC - $798, 7 athletes
- Cliff Keen WC - $790K, 10 athletes
- Lehigh Valley WC - $788, 9 athletes
I suspect it isn't just the ability to pay the wrestlers, but the RTC has to be attractive to them. Given the opportunity to choose, I would think they seriously consider the talent already onboard. Of course, Ashnault would have made it more attractive here, but he found another with better training opportunities, AKA a change of scenery. Rivera is an excellent addition, but I don't know about the other two. There are plenty of ex-Jersey guys that would be great to have unless they're enjoying being ex-Jersey. Myles Martin had a brief stay at SKWC if I remember correctly. What's he doing today? What is Anthony Cassar doing?
Myles Martin was here until he decided to retire from wrestling and he is working in Florida. Anthony Cassar is fighting in MMA and has not wrestled in awhile.
Good catch and thanks for the corrections. I misread Felters post.
As similar financial questions were discussed in the budget thread and the RTC thread, I am posting a response on both threads.
Per the IRS 2022 filing, the SKWC had revenue of $772,000, spent $554,000 and had a net income of $218,000 in 2022. The revenue is slightly less than Michigan, Columbia, and Lehigh. Columbia and Princeton may have a relationship where revenue is shared. I do not know for sure.
As I left the SKWC Board in 2020, I don't know if or why we are having a hard time hiring resident athletes. Coach Goodale is listed as the Chairmen of the SKWC. He is very open when asked questions. If one is a donor to the SKWC, I am believe he will be responsive, answer questions, and appreciative of all donor questions.
Please note that between 2018 and 2020 the NJRTC existed as a "partnership" between Rutgers and Princeton. While Princeton paid most of the expenses, the SKWC contributed funds to the NJRTC. To develop a true understanding of the financials during this period, the revenue and expense amounts need to be carefully examined. As I resigned from both the SKWC and NJRTC boards prior to the conclusion of the relationship between Princeton and Rutgers, I do not have this information. I believe Coach Goodale should be able to provide a comprehensive overview of the relationship and financial background or identify the person who can.
Questions were also asked about NIL funding. NIL information for wrestlers is not available, is private and tends to be exaggerated. Young men often increase potential offers when negotiating with another team.
David Bugen
I hope this information is helpful and thanks again for catching my error.
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I would be highly suspect of Felter's data. He also recently posted a list of RTCs and wrestling clubs, and included the Penn State Wrestling Club on the list. PSWC is a fan club, which puts on socials, arranges trips for away matches, etc. There are wrestlers in the PSWC, but if they're competing, it's in advanced age brackets.
If that's the level of effort he was willing to put in for that list, I'm guessing the level of effort might be the same for the school data.
If that's the level of effort he was willing to put in for that list, I'm guessing the level of effort might be the same for the school data.
That sounds kind of harsh. Finding wrestling info anywhere is like pulling teeth, the sport is so far behind in communicating info out to the fans that it’s embarrassing.
Can you show us where other sports and schools provide these financial details separate from the school's Equity in Athletics annual filing? I don't think they do.
I can’t, that’s why I’m saying criticizing the work the guy did to obtain those numbers was unfair.
In general, the wrestling world is not very transparent and even finding basic info requires more digging than should be necessary.
What is "the wrestling world?" Is it that much different from "the track and field world, the softball world, the gymnastics world?" Is their data readily available? Is any data, aside from football and basketball?
But, don't you think that someone who considers themselves a super fan, as Fellers does, when putting the RTC and club info together, would pause at "Nittany Lion Wrestling Club," and say, "Oh, yeah, that's where David Taylor trains out of." Then, when he sees "Penn State Wrestling Club," his interest might pique a bit, and say, "What wrestlers wrestle out of a second club in State College?" And, with ten seconds of research, he would find that PSWC is not a club for wrestlers, but for fans? I don't expect the info to be perfect, but at least spend a little time on it.
And, maybe even discuss your methodology.
No one puts out this info for any sports. It's only in the Equity in Athletics filings.
That's because the schools in general and the individual sports in particular really don't want this information out in the public domain. There is very little consistently prepared revenue and expense data available to analyze and compare performance across competing entities.
My first reaction to the list above where RU was ranked 5th, was that it did not reflect well on Goodale's program. This stuff should not be a mystery particularly at public schools. Same with NIL collective fund raising and distribution amounts. At some point this all needs to be uniformly prepared and reported to make this more transparent and help find reasonable solutions to the issues at hand.
I’m not talking about dollar figures, I get that.
Wrestling in general does an awful job relaying routine information to the public. There are plenty of duals and tournaments with no streams, or very infrequent updates. Zingo Nationals we’re held in Franklin, NJ for example and the only results on Rutgers wrestlers I found all day was when the wrestling account tweeted that Hermes won his bracket. No match updates on anyone other than that one post. This is usually the case with most open tournaments throughout the year.
Posters are correct Felters should explain where he got the numbers.
Posters are wrong college wrestling financials are not available.
Here are the Rutgers wrestling financial figures for the 2023 fiscal year, audited by KMPG and certified by Holloway:
Ticket sales $388,689
Donations $122,329
In kind contributions $18,000
Third party benefits $7,000
Parking and concession sales $71,228
Endowments and investments income $9,619
Other revenue $52,700
Total revenues $669,565
Financial aid $389,515
Head coach $452,373
Assistant coaches $463,320
Support staff $98,108
Recruiting $49,806
Travel $387,737
Equipment $114,160
Game day expenses $122,412
Marketing $313
Administrative overhead $68,021
Medical expenses $37,506
Membership and dues $4,317
Meals $92,080
Other expenses $19,128
Total expenses $2,298,796
Please note these amounts do not include an allocation of Big Ten media rights revenue or an allocation of debt service expenses on the wrestling training facility.
Posters are wrong college wrestling financials are not available.
Here are the Rutgers wrestling financial figures for the 2023 fiscal year, audited by KMPG and certified by Holloway:
Ticket sales $388,689
Donations $122,329
In kind contributions $18,000
Third party benefits $7,000
Parking and concession sales $71,228
Endowments and investments income $9,619
Other revenue $52,700
Total revenues $669,565
Financial aid $389,515
Head coach $452,373
Assistant coaches $463,320
Support staff $98,108
Recruiting $49,806
Travel $387,737
Equipment $114,160
Game day expenses $122,412
Marketing $313
Administrative overhead $68,021
Medical expenses $37,506
Membership and dues $4,317
Meals $92,080
Other expenses $19,128
Total expenses $2,298,796
Please note these amounts do not include an allocation of Big Ten media rights revenue or an allocation of debt service expenses on the wrestling training facility.
