Rutgers Basketball has a HIDDEN GEM in Lathan Sommerville!
- Thread starter IMARUFAN
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I didn’t compare anything about Ogbole’s game to MJ except his FT shooting. I said he can’t be a worse FT shooter which would literally be true of almost any human on the planet who has ever played organized basketball. My point was that one characteristic doesn’t make the idea of Ogbole starting a “circus disaster”. Many BIGs are poor at the line.
You’ve never seen him play defense against college level players so you cannot know this for certain. Nobody can.
Yeah, but I wrote more than that and you went on about MJ and $1mm. I'm not sure it's an endorsement to argue that he's got none of the talent of MJ except he can't shoot free throws just like MJ.
Feel free to muse into existence a player that we did not see last year, sweeping in the vast off season improvement that this board fantasizes about every year. Then the whistle blows.
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Now stop with trying to make comparisons and look at skill set. Is he the most accomplished dribbler we have ever had for a center? Does he have have crossover moves to get it from the foul line to the hole? Does he have elite down low shooting ? Does he have a 3 point shot that’s serviceable and not try to acquire it like every other big we ever had? I think the answer to all of the questions above is yes.
Now is he big bodied enough to defend centers and rebound. He is definitely big bodied enough. Without Edey , the only big that will be super difficult to defend will be Goldin at Michigan. But he was a handful for almost any center when he was at FAU with May. He might struggle for a while defensively but offensively there is huge upside with pick and pop in play.
My expectation was Pike was going to bring in a big guy but if not happening , my expectation by Game 5, just like James Bailey did in 1976 , he will enter the starting lineup. Two different body types but skilled low post shot makers. . That is the expectation . He is rated either 90 or 100 and plenty of those guys are starting around the country this past year. Plus he will not be the top items on the scouting report and that will be Dylan and Ace , so he can ease into it. That is my expectation.
Now is he big bodied enough to defend centers and rebound. He is definitely big bodied enough. Without Edey , the only big that will be super difficult to defend will be Goldin at Michigan. But he was a handful for almost any center when he was at FAU with May. He might struggle for a while defensively but offensively there is huge upside with pick and pop in play.
My expectation was Pike was going to bring in a big guy but if not happening , my expectation by Game 5, just like James Bailey did in 1976 , he will enter the starting lineup. Two different body types but skilled low post shot makers. . That is the expectation . He is rated either 90 or 100 and plenty of those guys are starting around the country this past year. Plus he will not be the top items on the scouting report and that will be Dylan and Ace , so he can ease into it. That is my expectation.
Not really - you actually said two things. He didn’t have good hands and he’s dreadful at the line. I just ignored the first one because it’s not true. He actually showed good hands in terms of grabbing boards and tipping balls out to our guys. When I think of a BIG and “hands” that’s what comes to mind. Butter fingers on Tarzan transition Ally Oops and difficult outlet passes doesn’t mean he has bad hands - it means he’s not as athletic as a guy like Cliff.
I'm starting to think that you haven't watched him play. But, fine, the actual season always comes after the endless off seasons of massive improvement. And then we'll see.
Cliff cannot defend other teams 5, he is a horrible passer, zero IQ has no vision, and misses more dunks than anyone I have ever seen in a college game.
100%. Have you read any of my posts? I literally said Lathan’s year 1 potential could be as high as Devin Williams (WVU). That kid started and averaged a double double or close to it as a frosh.
The post I responded to with the comment you replied to was a response to the guy who said Lathan would “certainly” start over Ogbole.
I guess maybe you should enlighten us then? So far all you’ve pointed to that’s tangible about how “terrible” Ogbole is - free throw shooting. He does not have bad hands. He grabbed offensive boards at a high rate on paper so you can’t dispute that. On D, the stats won’t support him getting schooled. I know what I saw and I focus on D more than most. In his first 4 games when the team still had life, he did not give up offensive boards / put backs. Basically, he took Wolf’s spot because of this.
Then he picked up that flagrant and hit the dog house. He played after that, but moreso in lopsided losses. I don’t think he got schooled on a relative basis in mop of any moreso than Cliff either - but regardless. It’s those first 4 games - that’s what matters - where he was subbing in with first team and the season still had a glimmer of hope. No - he doesn’t have pretty looking stats in those games but that doesn’t matter. He played D. Thats what we need from him.
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Cliff is significantly better at these things than Ogbole right now. Come on. You can’t actually be trying to compare current dunking ability are you? Don’t give 43s unrealistically inflated offseason projection of Ogbole’s skills life. Right now Ogbole has not yet executed a catch in the air with a dunk follow in live game action. Doesn’t mean he never will but he fumbled the few attempts he had - so that’s all we know for now about his ability in this area. Meanwhile - most of Cliff’s points come from this particular skill. Of course he’s better at it.
Cliff also has a better understanding of the game so he understands the need for quick decisions in kicking the ball out to reset on offensive boards. Ogbole might actually be a better rebounder on the offensive end. He showed really good potential there. Hopefully he will learn to kick out quickly. That would increase his value on the court at lot.
I guess he really had all those top teams throwing money at him duped.
It must have been a mistake by the staff when they were out actively seeking an experienced, proven center with Sommerville steady on the way and Ogbole on the roster. If only they’d consulted you on your prognostications and if they only understood the magical effect of the off season, particularly one that has been in effect and working its magic for a full two months.
Your post said Cliff is an excellent defender and elite dunker.
I disagree with both. Does he make spectacular athletic dunks? yes. The amount of dunks he misses disqualifies him from elite status. Defense wise he is good at blocking guards shots who have beat there defender shots.
He is better than O based on previous performance.
O has upside here, he has potential to be a better 5 on 5 defenders. Not hard low bar here.
He has potential to make dunks more efficiently than Cliff again not hard. He has potential to be a much better passer than Cliff, again not hard.
Blocked shots an over rated stat especially when it doesn’t result in a change of possession, or even worse an open 3 for the opponent.
Cliff is obviously better.
I personally think he’s a better dunker and passer than your describing reflected by his NIL value - but that doesn’t much matter.
The context of my post was in comparison to Ogbole. Clearly - Cliff is much better at these things than Ogbole right now.
Huh? First of all - nobody said Ogbole is as good as having a guy like Cliff. Literally not one poster implied anything like this. Thats why I had to shut socialdave down because your going to take his opinion which seems to basically be that Cliff isn’t as elite as some folks think and take it out of context to support your agenda as if he’s saying Ogbole will be just as good as him (that’s not what he’s saying at all - literally nobody is saying that).
However - even at that, you do know that we actually did recruit a 3rd center even when we knew Cliff was returning along with frosh recruit Wolf right? We brought in Agee. In fact - we’ve always before had 3 centers on the roster - have we not? The one exception was when Cliff backed up MJ. We had a walk on center I think who we gave an open schollie to. So there was never a question that we would try to recruit the best one we could find. Fortunately be brought in Martini who has played center albeit undersized so if we don’t bring in another we do have a plan c lined up.
Paying the most, does not necessarily equal wins or great performance
Many examples of this in pro sports
The Yankees come to mind. Not this year, but in the past there are many examples of the highest paid teams having subpar seasons Iam a fade, on Cliff, will he help his team win some possessions ? probably he will also be responsible for lost possessions, and at the end of the day will not move the needle on Bama’s win total.
This is becoming just too much nonsense. We aggressively pursued a center because we didn't have a proven one. We had Nathan Sommerville coming in, and the concern was that he was too raw. No one was thinking about Ogbole. Problems arose with that plan, however, because Sommerville might cut loose from the program if we signed a proven center. Again, no one was talking about Ogbole. Now, suddenly, and despite his problems last season, he's a viable plan B. OK. Off seasons are fun. Next year will be here soon enough.
Look - nothing you say can be taken seriously if you truly believe the reason we haven’t landed a proven portal center is because we were worried about losing Somerville. I don’t even know what to say to that. Very few of our fans, if any think that because there’s no way it’s true.
We were always going to retain one of Ogbole and Wolf. I have no clue what you mean by “nobody was talking about Ogbole” but it was never a given that Somerville was ahead of him or would’ve been ahead of Wolf if he stayed. Somerville has yet to play defense on a D1 player. Obviously - the preference would’ve been to bring someone more experienced and accomplished than either of them(and maybe we still will) but that still doesn’t make the concept of Ogbole possibly getting 20+ minutes a circus disaster. And no matter how hard you try, saying that is not close to the same thing as claiming Ogbole is a star center.
Oh yeah - and if Somerville ends up being a home run frosh who give us 30+ minutes on a tourney team - that also doesn’t mean it would’ve been a circus disaster if Ogbole had to play more.
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It was never a given that Sommerville would play ahead of Ogbole in the sense that nothing on this earth is ever a given. But that's it. In reality, though, it would be a massive disappointment and a haymaker out of nowhere if that actually happened.
Oh, and if you haven't seen the reports that Sommerville indicated to RU that he would consider decommitting if RU signed a veteran center and the subsequent reports that RU is likely not signing a veteran center, that's OK. That would explain why you don't know.
I don’t subscribe to premium. Deliberately. I try to avoid the temptation to follow the recruiting hype and that definitely wouldnt happen if I had access to that. I would spend way too much time getting excited about prospects that don’t end up at Rutgers. Of course this means I sometimes miss updates on other things.
Regardless - if that’s anything more than a rumor, I don’t get it at all. Was he planning to decommit if Cliff didn’t enter the portal?
As for it being a huge disappointment if Somerville isn’t good enough to start as a frosh - recall that MJ redshirted his frosh year - Shaq Doorson and Duke absorbed the bulk of the minutes at center with Eugene and Freeman splitting about 15 minutes there. Even the best centers aren’t always that impactful as frosh. There are definitely exceptions but it’s far from a given.
All those centers that you mention were not the recruits that Sommerville is; frankly not even close.
And please, go ahead and chalk it up to a rumor. But it was more than that, and now you know.
What? You must’ve misread what I said. I’m comparing only one center to Somerville in this example - MJ. I don’t care what his recruiting ranking was. MJ became a very good center. If Somerville is as good as him I’d be very happy. My point is that the other guys - Shaq Doorson and Duke were not better than Ogbole and they played while MJ didn’t his frosh year. That may have been by choice because MJ knew he needed development, but the point is that many good centers do not come in physically ready on the defensive end. We’ll see.
Sorry, but I don't even know what to do with this. Let's move on. These off season threads, as always, are what they are. And then we'll see how it goes.
That makes no sense to me that Sommerville would say that. Wouldn't he be more concerned if they brought in a freshman at a similar level?
14pts 13rebs combined per game between Sommerville and Ogbole and everything will be fine
Dylan and Ace are here for one year. Why would it make no sense to you that Sommerville would want to be a big part of that?
He couldn’t have known for sure Cliff would leave. There’s no way we guaranteed a frosh a starting spot. Look what happened with GG. Lots of 4 stars don’t do much as frosh. And now the ones with potential go to the highest bigger in year 2 anyway. I can’t see us refraining from taking a good big to make Lathan happy. Seems nuts.
You said a freshman at same level now bringing up
Cliff was never expected to return
We tried to get multiple BIGs early. 2 of them chose UK. Richie’s podcast about the Serbian kid references this again. No mention of us actually not ever wanting a proven BIG.
There is no way the goal was to not initially have a proven BIG on the roster. Too many podcast reported contact with top guys. Amari Williams himself said we were reaching out. There’s no way we promised Somerville we wouldn’t go that way because it’s known we tried. No? What am I missing.
It's all spelled out on the premium side in more detail but another poster even laid out what happened here
You don't like it. Most people don't
