Name all the great or even good coaches that have a .500 record in college a .344 record in the NFL and haven't worked in almost 2 years. No retired or dead people.
Still waiting.
Still waiting.
Schiano influence spreads to Arkansas
- Thread starter srru86
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I can name someone like that , but his College winning percentage is over.500 and he did bring the college program he coached to 7 bowl games in the last 8 years he was the HC there.
In the pros the coach before him had a winning percentage of .344, .286 the year before he was hired and the coach after him had a /125 percentage.
Think that pro team had a bigger problem than just the HC you don't like.
Cite anything you like, but when you dismiss what was accomplished by that coach, proves you might just have a problem understanding how hard it was to build a good FB program at Rutgers.
It's an impossible exercise, but what is your point?
Gary Barnett was 35–45–1 at NW, and 8-11-1 prior to that at the Fort Lewis Raiders, yet he got a job as head coach at Colorado.
You want an example? Charlie Weiss. 35-27 at Notre Freaking Dame. Last 3 seasons, 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. He did a horrible job as Florida's offensive coordinator, and was hired by Kansas as their head coach 2 years after getting fired from Notre Dame. And some on Scarlet Nation wanted to hire him as HC at Rutgers.
They are two pretty poor examples of a "impressive gain". Oregon replaced Mike Belotti and Wisconsin replaced Barry Alvarez.Two hall of famers who did a tremendous job with those schools .I think the turnaround here was more like the job Bill Snyder did with K State (no academic restrictions though)or when you consider the academic constraints the job Gary Barnett did with Northwestern.JQRU91 these turnarounds might happen every day but it had never in happened here.Not in this era.
For many posters here myself included,were beginning to wonder if it could ever happen here. Schiano and Mulcahy changed that. I think as time goes on Kyle Flood will build on that.
I agree with you on everything except the part about Flood lacking the fire. I think it's more a matter of Flood just isn't that naturally charismatic. Unless that's what you meant.
Funny, it seems a lot of successful college and pro teams don't care about numbers or time off like you. They are immaterial because not all situations are the same. Here a few examples:
Jim Mora. He was under .500 in the pros, fired by Seattle (who has since gone on to become a model franchise) and he was then out of football for 2 years. He got hired at UCLA and has hit the ground running.
Pete Carroll was under .500 in pros, out of football for 2 years and killed at USC
That's two. And neither guy had any college experience.
Look at Baylor in the decade before Art Briles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons
As I said it was off the top of my head. I guess for a more recent one you can look at Baylor with Art Briles.
"Like most forward-thinking athletic directors, Baylor’s Ian McCaw doesn’t spend much time thinking about the past.
Occasionally, it’s unavoidable, as a reminder of how far the school’s football program has come in the last six seasons since hiring Art Briles
“It’s one of the greatest turnarounds in college football history,” McCaw said.
In this case, what sounds like hyperbole is also a hard fact. Baylor has made the leap from Big 12 doormat and a coaching graveyard to an elite position. After claiming its first Big 12 championship and first outright conference title in 33 years, the Bears are part of the BCS. Baylor (11-1) will face American Athletic Conference champ Central Florida (11-1) in the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl on New Year’s Day."
(http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...n-college-football-history-baylor-ad-says.ece)
And as far as all the time goes, I meant that you will find bad teams become good teams most every season. There's almost always a Cinderella story or two out there. My original point was not to knock Schiano. He certainly did a good job here. It's just that he wasn't a miracle worker. Other people have done this sort of thing as well, and some have done it faster and gone higher.
Actually, it's interesting because looking up Schnellenberger made me realize that Schiano would have been familiar with the story because of his time at Miami. So he would have known what was possible. I was also thinking about Jim Leavitt in this context. He didn't turn around a program, but he built one from nothing to one that was ranked and putting players in the NFL in about a decade. Where was he coaching before he went to South Florida? Kansas State with Bill Snyder. So he knew he knew what was possible as well. He got to see it first hand. And Bill Snyder was with Hayden Fry at Iowa when that program was turned around.
- Re: .500 record in college. Obviously, you were not a Rutgers fan in the 80s, 90s or early 00s. Because dreaming of a .500 record at Rutgers at the time was akin to us winning the super bowl. There's bad, and then there's Rutgers bad. It was going to take multiple years alone just to make us not look like a D-AA team. If you cannot accept the reality that even VINCE LOMBARDI would have taken years to get Rutgers to a bare minimum competitive level, then you have no idea what you're talking about.
- if you take off the first 2 years off for the necessary rebuild from his record, his college career is: 57-47.
- If you take off the first 4 years, his college career is: 48-36.
- Both of which, for RU in Big East... are not too shabby.
- *: and let's not forget 2010 was a year that any coach would have had a difficult season due to EL's injury.
- Re: .344 record in the NFL. Dude, Lovie Smith went 2-14 with a squad that was better than Schiano's. Much better. For his entire tenure, he was forced to play Josh Freeman who CAN'T even make a 3rd string backup job. ...and that's not including the rumblings of his party habits. Mark Dominik should honestly never be allowed in an NFL office again, because he is arguably one of the least effective GMs in the history of the NFL. But if you actually watched the Bucs, game in and out, you would know that they were competitive in almost every single game until the end of 2013. In one year, they actually topped the list of NFL record books in a few defensive categories. I mean people forget that Schiano's squad went to Seattle and took the super bowl champion Seahawks to overtime with an dramatically overmatched roster of rookies and practice squad players. You don't do that as an awful coach.
- Re: out of work for 2 years? LOLOLOLOLOL. There are literally maybe 10 college jobs that could even remotely pay him more than what he is getting paid already from the Bucs. If he takes a job, he loses that compensation and makes a heck of a lot less. How is this hard to understand?? When the Bucs money runs out, he'll have a job.
Understating what Schiano did at Rutgers is foolhardy and a waste of time. He certainly had coaching flaws, as all do, but you ignore that in each job, he started as a true underdog with an awful hand dealt to him. Rutgers sucked. Bucs sucked. They were both big time rebuilding jobs.
Now specifically to Rutgers, despite being in an awful conference that has zero legitimacy in recruiting through his entire career, he produced arguably the most NFL talent of a lower level BCS team, our defenses were almost always ranked at the top in the nation, and we won 5 bowl games in the last six years. To me, that's more impressive than what most coaches accomplish. And the truth is, most of us believe that if given the unbelievable talent on that 2012 squad, which he nurtured, and finally acquiring the B1G legitimacy he always needed, Schiano would have reached the status you so stubbornly believe he could not obtain. Of course, we'll never know - but you can't fault a guy for taking a chance at playing on Sundays.
Dr Potato, I just shown you coaches with worst records and they are coaching. Who give a dam about what you think? I think you're an idiot.
Dr Potato definition for a good coach is one that wins a national championship.
Is Dr Potato head from the Star Ledger to stir trouble?
Dr Potato definition for a good coach is one that wins a national championship.
Is Dr Potato head from the Star Ledger to stir trouble?
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He went 9-4 in 2011, 4-8 in 2010, 9-4 in 2009, 8-5 in 2008, 8-5 in 2007, 11-2 in 2006. That's a bad coach because he promised us a National Championship. I wish Flood promised a recruit a national championship if that what it takes.
Oregon and Wisconsin started building their programs in the early 90's. Oregon played in the Rose Bowl in 1994-95. Both programs have a 10-15 year head start on us while playing in premier conferences. We are going into year 2 in that regard. And I don't want to knock GS because he built this but facts are he was a game over .500 in 11 years and no conference championships. And the conference had essentially turned into a mid major. You want to discount his first two years, then I will put more emphasis on his last 2. The 2010 team was terrible before Eric got hurt and the 2011 team choked away 3 games (UL, WVU and UCONN) which would have given us at least a share of our first championship. Again he gets an A for building the program and the 2006 season. 2007-2011 he gets a C+.
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Should be interesting. I just doubt he can pick and chose like some posters seem to think. He may end up a DC in college for a few years.
But when? Tick tock. One more year to claim he is biding his time with the Bucs money.
But when? Tick tock. One more year to claim he is biding his time with the Bucs money.
RU was on the verge of giving up playing D1 FB ? A bit of an exaggeration maybe ? There were a handful of faculty members who thought that way but that was about it.
To be fair, if your analysis is going to be based on "if you remove Greg's first 2-4 years, his record is xx-xx" maybe you should remove all of his 1-aa wins too? I don't feel like doing the math, but it's no secret that Greg got fat on 1aa wins.
Greg was the right guy at the right time. We were lucky in that he was a Jersey guy who understood the landscape here, was a tireless worker, well connected to a handful of NJ HS coaching legends and most importantly wanted the job.
Is he a RU Hall of Famer? Obviously. If not him, then who? They should probably name a wing of the HOF after him.
And his pushing for the Block R probably gets remembered as a Top 5-10 critical moment in the history of the university--it created a brand and raised awareness that much.
But I also think it's perfectly fair to criticize a lot of his decisions, mannerisms and management style. Greg was his own worst enemy in many ways. His stubbornness created a ceiling for his program.
Greg was the right guy at the right time. We were lucky in that he was a Jersey guy who understood the landscape here, was a tireless worker, well connected to a handful of NJ HS coaching legends and most importantly wanted the job.
Is he a RU Hall of Famer? Obviously. If not him, then who? They should probably name a wing of the HOF after him.
And his pushing for the Block R probably gets remembered as a Top 5-10 critical moment in the history of the university--it created a brand and raised awareness that much.
But I also think it's perfectly fair to criticize a lot of his decisions, mannerisms and management style. Greg was his own worst enemy in many ways. His stubbornness created a ceiling for his program.
it amazes me this is even a debate and continues to divide the RU fanbase. Plain and simple GS was the greatest thing ever to happen to Rutgers football. it matters not what his won-loss record was here or in the NFL. He deserves a Herculian statue at the front gate of the stadium.
Taking out the I-AA opponents:
2011: 8-4 (beat Iowa State in the Pinstripe)
2010: 3-8 (*** - while we weren't going to be a top team anyway, this is the LeGrand season. We went 0-6 after his injury, which should not shock anyone.
2009: 7-4 (beat UCF in the St Petersburg Beef O'Brady's whatever bowl)
2008: 7-5 (beat NC State in the Papa John's Bowl)
2007: 7-5 (beat Ball State in the International Bowl)
2006: 10-2 (beat Kansas State in the Texas Bowl)
2005: 6-5 (lost to Arizona State in the Insight Bowl)
2004: 4-6 (lost to New Hampshire in the I-AA game this year)
2003: 5-7 (no I-AA opponents)
2002: 1-10 (lost to Villanova in the I-AA game)
2001: 2-9
Overall: 60-65 vs I-A opponents.
Taking out the first two seasons, when we were one of the worst ten programs in the country and the worst in a Big Six conference: 57-46 (.553)
From 2005 to 2011: 48-33 (.593)
Taking the WORST program in a major conference to a string of six bowls in seven seasons with a .593 winning percentage? He did a FANTASTIC job of building the program, with players we can be proud of (excellent APR, very few problems off the field under Schiano).
Greg got a raw deal in Tampa. They should've given him one more season. Lovie Smith did a lousy job last year. I don't blame Greg at all for kicking back and collecting his $4 million per year to stay home.
2011: 8-4 (beat Iowa State in the Pinstripe)
2010: 3-8 (*** - while we weren't going to be a top team anyway, this is the LeGrand season. We went 0-6 after his injury, which should not shock anyone.
2009: 7-4 (beat UCF in the St Petersburg Beef O'Brady's whatever bowl)
2008: 7-5 (beat NC State in the Papa John's Bowl)
2007: 7-5 (beat Ball State in the International Bowl)
2006: 10-2 (beat Kansas State in the Texas Bowl)
2005: 6-5 (lost to Arizona State in the Insight Bowl)
2004: 4-6 (lost to New Hampshire in the I-AA game this year)
2003: 5-7 (no I-AA opponents)
2002: 1-10 (lost to Villanova in the I-AA game)
2001: 2-9
Overall: 60-65 vs I-A opponents.
Taking out the first two seasons, when we were one of the worst ten programs in the country and the worst in a Big Six conference: 57-46 (.553)
From 2005 to 2011: 48-33 (.593)
Taking the WORST program in a major conference to a string of six bowls in seven seasons with a .593 winning percentage? He did a FANTASTIC job of building the program, with players we can be proud of (excellent APR, very few problems off the field under Schiano).
Greg got a raw deal in Tampa. They should've given him one more season. Lovie Smith did a lousy job last year. I don't blame Greg at all for kicking back and collecting his $4 million per year to stay home.
There appears to be many straw-men cited in this thread.
I don't remember anyone downplaying what he did here. I do see many overstating it however. IMHO, he will go down as one of the most important HC in Rutgers History. No one knows how he would have done in the Big Ten because he left.
He had a lot of flaws, too controlling, bad with the press and NFL scouts, too focus on defense, scheduling only cupcakes in the OOC, 2006 was a one time only event, bad record against team with winning records, never winning a conference title, etc.
All of that being said, that doesn't take away from bringing Rutgers from the worst FBS program to a team that goes to bowl games every year. We should always be grateful for that.
I don't remember anyone downplaying what he did here. I do see many overstating it however. IMHO, he will go down as one of the most important HC in Rutgers History. No one knows how he would have done in the Big Ten because he left.
He had a lot of flaws, too controlling, bad with the press and NFL scouts, too focus on defense, scheduling only cupcakes in the OOC, 2006 was a one time only event, bad record against team with winning records, never winning a conference title, etc.
All of that being said, that doesn't take away from bringing Rutgers from the worst FBS program to a team that goes to bowl games every year. We should always be grateful for that.
What is interesting from the link is that Robb Smitth adopted something he learned from Greg Schiano, and he is applying it somewhere else with a degree of success. Rising stars take what their bosses do well, and utilize, observe what their boss does not do well and make note not to do it. Maybe Robb will be a great head coach some day.
"I don't remember anyone downplaying what he did here."
Exactly. I was talking about TODAY. Not 5 or 10 years ago.
Exactly. I was talking about TODAY. Not 5 or 10 years ago.
True. Also I guess I underestimated the number of folks with unresolved "Greg Issues".
The same fans that hated him for leaving are probably the same fans that called for his firing in his last 2 years. Insanity
The last few years that he was here, there were tons of threads on this message board asking for him to get fired. I can't be the only person who remembers that?
There were new ones created every week.
I still question Flood ability but I never wanted him fired but I think there are quite a few posters that were posting fire Flood every day and now are his strongest supporters. I just don't want to go from one extreme to the other since there's not enough experience to judge him.
Here are some more turnarounds (w/some repeats)
- Barnett (then Walker & Fitzgerald) Northwestern (starting in 1995) – one bowl in 46 years to 6 Bowls & 3 Big Ten Championships.
- Jeff Tedford. - (2002 – 2012) California (Bears) had declined to one of the worst programs. He had a winning record 8 straight years including 7 straight bowl appearances, a conference championship and 4 Top 25 finishes (Coaches/AP polls)
- Gary Patterson - TCU (2000 - ) only 5 winning seasons in 30 years prior to his arrival. 85-28 record, eight bowl appearances (5-3), and winning records in seven seasons. 6 Top 25 finishes.
- Paul Johnson – Navy (2002 – 2007) – 2 winning seasons over 20 years prior. Inherited a team that went 1-20 over the 2 seasons prior. Johnson led them to a 43-19 record and five straight bowl appearances.
- Dennis Erickson (then Mike Riley) – Oregon State
Illinois alum, NJ resident here.
My 2 cents on Greg Schiano. What he did at Rutgers was amazing. But at what point do you consider the building of the program's foundation finished? He coached at Rutgers for 11 years. In his last 7 years he was 25-24 in conference. In his last 4 years the record was 13-15. He got the program to a certain point, but didn't take it any higher in my opinion to warrant being a must get head coach for a program in trouble like Illinois. Illinois has wild swings, BCS Bowls in 2001 and 2007, to a bottom tier football program in the last 3 years or so. I just think that a school like Illinois can do better.
My 2 cents on Greg Schiano. What he did at Rutgers was amazing. But at what point do you consider the building of the program's foundation finished? He coached at Rutgers for 11 years. In his last 7 years he was 25-24 in conference. In his last 4 years the record was 13-15. He got the program to a certain point, but didn't take it any higher in my opinion to warrant being a must get head coach for a program in trouble like Illinois. Illinois has wild swings, BCS Bowls in 2001 and 2007, to a bottom tier football program in the last 3 years or so. I just think that a school like Illinois can do better.
Hi Bill Cubit's brother. [banana]. I am just joking around. That's a fair analysis. So if Greg is not the man, who do you think should be leading candidates? Is PJ Fleck still to young and unproven?
I think the how long does it take to build a foundation is the crux of the issue. One of the more entertaining threads ever on this board was:
"Things done in less time than Greg won the Conference"
It was a rather long and impressive list...Empire state building, GW Bridge, Great Wall of China, lol, The Space Race, Cold War.
you get the idea...
"Things done in less time than Greg won the Conference"
It was a rather long and impressive list...Empire state building, GW Bridge, Great Wall of China, lol, The Space Race, Cold War.
you get the idea...
PJ has 1 winning season and a HC record of 9-16. I would be scared to hire someone that young especially if he was to be paid over $2 million. Kyle Flood would be a better candidate.
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This thread is going all over the place. If Kyle Flood does 7-5 or better this year, do you think will he be approached for any openings?
I would think his agent should look at any opportunities out there but I think we should give him a raise but more bonus incentive base on number of wins over .500.
I do not want to see Schiano on any team in the East Coast never mind another B1G team. We already have plenty of schools taking recruits from NJ and Greg would be adding on to that. As rough as he was to deal with, he still made some relationships with HS coaches in NJ and would land some good talent away from RU.
http://espn.go.com/blog/travis-haney/insider/post?id=4649
http://espn.go.com/blog/travis-haney/insider/post?id=4649
Not unique?!? Rutgers was in a quarter-century bowl drought when Schiano took over. That alone is quite unique. Let alone turning that shite show around.
