Shutdown and RU budget?

[RUnTeX]

Hopefully the admissions/enrollment management staff can still aggressively pursue nearby OOS students, at least. If concerns of being close to home weigh heavily on decisions of where to attend college, by virtue of being in a small sized state such as NJ, Rutgers-NB can still appeal to a subset of prospective students in parts of eastern PA and downstate NY, or even CT (portion of Faifield County) where the NB campus is physically closer and less driving time than their respective in-state flagship or similar level options. Especially if those folks want to and can afford to go "out of state" to NJ as a preference to their home state options.

 

[retired711]

I understand that community colleges all across the nation are frantic about what the effects of covidvirus could be on enrollment -- and of course those schools draw locally. Rutgers administration must be anticipating a heck of a smaller incoming class to want such drastic budget cuts.

 

[Zak57]

Can't they dip into their billion dollar endowments to help ride this out?

 

[retired711]

Can't they dip into their billion dollar endowments to help ride this out?

They could. Columbia University did this in the 1940s before Dwight Eisenhower became Columbia president and set up a real fund-raising operation. But a billion dollar endowment would quickly disappear if we dipped substantially into it, ,and spending from it would create a bad precedent. Keep in mind also that withdrawing money from the endowment means less income from the endowment. I suspect the endowment would be the last source of revenue RU would look to.

 

[T2Kplus10]

They could. Columbia University did this in the 1940s before Dwight Eisenhower became Columbia president and set up a real fund-raising operation. But a billion dollar endowment would quickly disappear if we dipped substantially into it, ,and spending from it would create a bad precedent. Keep in mind also that withdrawing money from the endowment means less income from the endowment. I suspect the endowment would be the last source of revenue RU would look to.

RU's endowment is very small as compared to its annual budget:
$1.5B vs $4.5B (only 1/3)

Compare this to Harvard:
$40B vs. $5B (8 times the size)

Now that is an endowment you can tap into for a while.

 

[retired711]

RU's endowment is very small as compared to its annual budget:
$1.5B vs $4.5B (only 1/3)

Compare this to Harvard:
$40B vs. $5B (8 times the size)

Now that is an endowment you can tap into for a while.

I remember there was talk of Yale dipping into its endowment sometime in the last two decades. There was some kind of fiscal crisis, and some faculty argued that they too were part of the endowment, and so some money should be withdrawn from the monetary endowment to maintain the faculty "endowment." The trustees said, "no way, no how."

 

[T2Kplus10]

I remember there was talk of Yale dipping into its endowment sometime in the last two decades. There was some kind of fiscal crisis, and some faculty argued that they too were part of the endowment, and so some money should be withdrawn from the monetary endowment to maintain the faculty "endowment." The trustees said, "no way, no how."

Not surprising. I'm sure admins/trustees guard this money with their lives.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

You can't use an Endowment as if it were a University piggy bank.

Endowments contain many Restricted Funds meaning they can only be used for specific purposes. If the Endowment contains Unrestricted Funds then they could be used to benefit the university as they see fit.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[retired711]

You can't use an Endowment as if it were a University piggy bank.

Endowments contain many Restricted Funds meaning they can only be used for specific purposes. If the Endowment contains Unrestricted Funds then they could be used to benefit the university as they see fit.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

An endowment is mostly unrestricted funds. It is money raised from people who want to aid the university or college rather than a specific purpose. But spending the endowment is like spending your retirement account while you're working; you deprive yourself of much-needed working capital that can grow and make money. Spending the endowment is therefore an institution's last resort.

 

[RUnTeX]

RU's endowment is very small as compared to its annual budget:
$1.5B vs $4.5B (only 1/3)

Compare this to Harvard:
$40B vs. $5B (8 times the size)

Now that is an endowment you can tap into for a while.

Annual budget as a function of universitywide enrollment:
HU = $227k per student ($5B, 22k)
RU = $64k per student ($4.5B, 70k)

HU has less than one-third of the total student body of RU but nearly 4x the budget $ per student. The disparity just struck me as quite stark.

Comparing endowment $ per student, though perhaps not a meaningful metric, would be so absolutely ridiculous in favor of the Crimson as to be comical.

 

[retired711]

Annual budget as a function of universitywide enrollment:
HU = $227k per student ($5B, 22k)
RU = $64k per student ($4.5B, 70k)

HU has less than one-third of the total student body of RU but nearly 4x the budget $ per student. The disparity just struck me as quite stark.

Comparing endowment $ per student, though perhaps not a meaningful metric, would be so absolutely ridiculous in favor of the Crimson as to be comical.

I've told this story before, so forgive me:

Every so often the ABA and the Association of American Law Schools send a team to a law school to assess it for re-accreditation. In 1985, the committee included Robert Bauman of the UCLA faculty. He told me several years later that the committee was invited to give its impressions to Edward Bloustein, then Rutgers president. Bloustein and Bauman were introduced to each other, and Bloustein said, "Oh, UCLA Law School! That's the kind of place we want the law school at Camden to be!" "Oh, yeah?,: Bauman shot back, "Well, I want you to know that UCLA law has twice the budget of Rutgers-Camden law for the same number of students!"

One thing I learned here: everything (except positions for administrators) is based on spending as little as possible. And it will get worse with this new budget crisis. As I've said before, I'm *very* happened to be retired!

 

[Panthergrowl13]

An endowment is mostly unrestricted funds. It is money raised from people who want to aid the university or college rather than a specific purpose. But spending the endowment is like spending your retirement account while you're working; you deprive yourself of much-needed working capital that can grow and make money. Spending the endowment is therefore an institution's last resort.

The University of Pittsburgh has a $4.3 Billion Endowment and the vast bulk of the endowment is restricted and earmarked for specific purposes.
Additionally, in Pennsylvania the distribution amounts must be within a range permitted under Pennsylvania Act 141, the law that governs how not-for-profit organizations can invest and spend the income from permanently restricted endowment funds.

This is the situation at Pitt regarding its endowment and I was assuming Pitt was not unique, although I haven't looked into other university endowments.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[retired711]

The University of Pittsburgh has a $4.3 Billion Endowment and the vast bulk of the endowment is restricted and earmarked for specific purposes.
Additionally, in Pennsylvania the distribution amounts must be within a range permitted under Pennsylvania Act 141, the law that governs how not-for-profit organizations can invest and spend the income from permanently restricted endowment funds.

This is the situation at Pitt regarding its endowment and I was assuming Pitt was not unique, although I haven't looked into other university endowments.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

It's ironic; the political right wants institutions to have to spend more of their endowments and Pa. by your description restricts spending of endowments. I am surprised that Pitt's endowment is so restricted. But that's Pitt's problem.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I don't think Pitt considers it a problem when they receive significant donations involving restricted funds that can be used for specific uses (that ultimately benefit the university with respect to contributing donors wishes).

Clyde Jones, Pitt's vice chancellor for Health Services Development comments adequately summarizes Pitt's views on restricted endowment funds.

"We've (Pitt) been very fortunate to have a number of very, very generous donors.
The kind of endowed funds we (Pitt) receives is getting increasingly restricted. Its helped increase the number of (faculty) chairs, scholarships, and research funds quite dramatically. But donors are very savvy. They want to be sure were being good stewards and that there is a good result for the money - that we're hiring top talent and recruiting the best students."

I don't think Rutgers would turn down a generous endowment donation with restrictions or consider it a problem.:Wink:

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Zak57]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I was just curious if it was a possibility as needed in case of emergency. I do know trustees that work with such large endowments so would be interesting.

 

[retired711]

I don't think Pitt considers it a problem when they receive significant donations involving restricted funds that can be used for specific uses (that ultimately benefit the university with respect to contributing donors wishes).

Clyde Jones, Pitt's vice chancellor for Health Services Development comments adequately summarizes Pitt's views on restricted endowment funds.

"We've (Pitt) been very fortunate to have a number of very, very generous donors.
The kind of endowed funds we (Pitt) receives is getting increasingly restricted. Its helped increase the number of (faculty) chairs, scholarships, and research funds quite dramatically. But donors are very savvy. They want to be sure were being good stewards and that there is a good result for the money - that we're hiring top talent and recruiting the best students."

I don't think Rutgers would turn down a generous endowment donation with restrictions or consider it a problem.:Wink:

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Depends on what the restriction is -- that's true for all insitutions. Universities, etc. do not want to have money restricted to uses that become obsolete over time, or that deprive the institution of needed flexibility. (For instance, Princeton was long in a battle with the donors for the Woodrow Wilson school over the direction of the curriculum.) Note that your quote does not establish that most funds are restricted -- rather that donors are concerned that the institution use the money well. It is is too bad for Pitt if many of its gifts are sharply restricted because it deprives Pitt of flexibility.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Depends on what the restriction is -- that's true for all insitutions. Universities, etc. do not want to have money restricted to uses that become obsolete over time, or that deprive the institution of needed flexibility. (For instance, Princeton was long in a battle with the donors for the Woodrow Wilson school over the direction of the curriculum.) Note that your quote does not establish that most funds are restricted -- rather that donors are concerned that the institution use the money well. It is is too bad for Pitt if many of its gifts are sharply restricted because it deprives Pitt of flexibility.

Well Pitt's endowment is $4.3 Billion and we will just have to agree to disagree on how much the loss of flexibility hurts Pitt. Pitt will not turn down a generous gift if the donor agrees to direct it to a particular area


HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[knight_ru]

Rutgers can not dip into the endowment. I know people in that department and it can not happen. The donations are set for particular goals and can not be raised to shore up budgets.

however
Some of the RU unions seem to be saying that RU does have a cash reserve that should be dipped into for this crisis. What this reserve is and how much is there is up for debate.

 

[RUJohnny99]

IIRC, weren't you fairly down on RU as a choice for your son? Has that changed? Stevens touts itself as having one of the best paybacks on tuition or something like that, and I may be wrong, but I don't think Civil is one of their strongest areas. RU has a great network in NJ and elsewhere for Civil Engineering.

Back in the mid 1980's, I was admitted to Stevens and Rutgers and Lehigh. Lehigh offered me no aid, and Stevens made a compelling case, offering about $5 or 6K in aid, bringing the cost within about $2500/year at Rutgers. But this amount was a small fortune to my family, and Rutgers was my only choice. It worked out well. I majored in Ceramic Engineering, and during that time, Rutgers was swimming in State and Federal research money. The Center For Ceramic Engineering was built, and shortly after, the Center for Fiber Optics Materials Research. Rutgers crushes the other local schools in research $$.

If your son winds up at RU, and gets involved with the right professors and research projects, he will have an outstanding experience.

sorry @Knight Shift I've been limiting my negative energies, so stayed off the boards for a couple weeks. LOL. I think you misunderstood. My family & I bleed scarlet. I always felt Rutgers was the best place for my engineering son, and deposits are in. I wasn't keen on the Honors College for various reasons, and in hindsight, that was all theoretical anyways, if you know what I mean. His twin brother is a Rutgers fan, but always wanted to get away, and I can understand it. He's enrolling in the business school at UofSC, with the understanding if college isn't open in the fall, he's redshirting at Brookdale.

The private engineering schools all promised co-ops with $50-70,000 salaries. Which was amazing, and Rutgers didn't offer that, until we met with the professors. The professors really sold the school, and their whole argument was "we've already got more research allocated to us than we can handle. You pick a project, find your passion, get through the degree, and any company will hire you". Completely different mindset, and it wasn't all about RoI. It was about being part of a 4000 student tech school on a campus that also holds 50,000 other students his age.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

sorry @Knight Shift I've been limiting my negative energies, so stayed off the boards for a couple weeks. LOL. I think you misunderstood. My family & I bleed scarlet. I always felt Rutgers was the best place for my engineering son, and deposits are in. I wasn't keen on the Honors College for various reasons, and in hindsight, that was all theoretical anyways, if you know what I mean. His twin brother is a Rutgers fan, but always wanted to get away, and I can understand it. He's enrolling in the business school at UofSC, with the understanding if college isn't open in the fall, he's redshirting at Brookdale.

The private engineering schools all promised co-ops with $50-70,000 salaries. Which was amazing, and Rutgers didn't offer that, until we met with the professors. The professors really sold the school, and their whole argument was "we've already got more research allocated to us than we can handle. You pick a project, find your passion, get through the degree, and any company will hire you". Completely different mindset, and it wasn't all about RoI. It was about being part of a 4000 student tech school on a campus that also holds 50,000 other students his age.

I've always said Rutgers is not a prix fixe menu. We're a high end buffet. You come to Rutgers and you're not going to get an internship\co-op handed to you. You can slide through, and get a degree, and eat the fries and burgers, and be perfectly happy. But we have all the academic filet mignon and lobster that any other school has, and we have more options around it too. If you want it, you can find it at RU, you can do it at RU, and you can build it at RU. I never ran into a situation where there wasn't another peak to climb at Rutgers.

 

[Knight Shift]

sorry @Knight Shift I've been limiting my negative energies, so stayed off the boards for a couple weeks. LOL. I think you misunderstood. My family & I bleed scarlet. I always felt Rutgers was the best place for my engineering son, and deposits are in. I wasn't keen on the Honors College for various reasons, and in hindsight, that was all theoretical anyways, if you know what I mean. His twin brother is a Rutgers fan, but always wanted to get away, and I can understand it. He's enrolling in the business school at UofSC, with the understanding if college isn't open in the fall, he's redshirting at Brookdale.

The private engineering schools all promised co-ops with $50-70,000 salaries. Which was amazing, and Rutgers didn't offer that, until we met with the professors. The professors really sold the school, and their whole argument was "we've already got more research allocated to us than we can handle. You pick a project, find your passion, get through the degree, and any company will hire you". Completely different mindset, and it wasn't all about RoI. It was about being part of a 4000 student tech school on a campus that also holds 50,000 other students his age.

Good stuff. My neighbor up the street in Wall has 2 kids at UofSC, assuming you mean the Gamecocks school. He had nothing bad to say, and IIRC, they made an offer they could not refuse or something like that. And what @Sir ScarletKnight said. I was working on some cutting edge superconductivity research (as a lab rat) in the mid 1980s. Great times, and great experience. I was glad I did not go to Lehigh or Stevens and graduate with a lot of debt. Think I graduated RU with $5,000 in debt, which I promptly paid off.

 

[RUnTeX]

Completely different mindset, and it wasn't all about RoI.

Interesting role reversal between public and private in my mind...I would expect the public to try to sell the merits of ROI of more affordable tuition and shorter payback, all else being equal. Glad to hear this is how Rutgers distinguished itself in your and your son's case.

It was about being part of a 4000 student tech school on a campus that also holds 50,000 other students his age.

Always felt this was a selling point for a flagship public even though it might not be valued by or be a fit for everyone. Also affords more options with internal school to school transfer if one decides at some point that engineering isn't their bag. Larger and/or more comprehensive privates generally offer this flexibility too, of course, but probably not so much the more specialized eng'g/tech schools with fewer non-tech departments.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

 

[srru86]

Boston Globe
Amid coronavirus pandemic, a growing list of colleges in financial peril
This is mostly about the small non-elites in New England. As we have said before this current crisis is accelerating a pre-existing dilemma for schools like that.

 

[srru86]

Washington Post
Colleges push viral testing, other ideas for reopening in fall. But some worry about deepening the health crisis

 

[MoobyCow]

This is not going to help school budgets.

The Trump administration may suspend OPT, a program for foreign students to stay in the U.S. to get 1 or 2 years of occupational training after their educations.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...students-prompting-backlash-business-n1207251