SI Ranking of potential college job openings.

[KJ_RU]

"With so many other low-tier jobs Power 5 expected to open, don't expect many hot coaches to jump at Rutgers, which is in the conversation with Indiana for the worst job in the Big Ten East. Rutgers also may be the WORST MAJOR CONFERENCE JOB ON THE MARKET. That could force the Scarlet Knights to go outside the box with a retread, FCS coach, obscure coordinator or below-the-radar coach. "


Better off keeping Flood

Fludd should've never been a headcoach and probably will never be one at this level again. I'd rather take a chance on somebody that gives us a real chance to atleast improve than stick with the incompetent fool we have now.

The trick isn't to hire the biggest name you can get, it's hiring the right guy for the program. A lifetime OLine coach wasn't the right hire, especially given where the program was at the time. Fludd was an incredibly bad hire and a mistake, the longer we stick with that mistake the worse things will get.

By the way, Fludd has helped create the perception that Rutgers is a bad job...he can't recruit, he can't win big games, gets blown out 3-4 times a year, and is in the news for all the wrong reasons. The right coach can change all that.

 

[mildone]

It would be almost impossible to hire a less qualified staff than we have now. You'd have to go out of your way to solicit resumes from people who had no expectation of being able to get a P5 job to get down to a HC with 0 experience as even a coordinator, a 1st year OC and a 2nd year DC.

Two things. First, what in our recent history makes you think our admin won't go out of their way to do just that?

Putting that aside, define "qualified". Look at the stats I posted about Cristobal's coaching record up above. And he's in contention for the Miami job. So people at Miami must think he's qualified even though, as a head coach, he's even more of loser w/a weaker strength of schedule than Flood has been. Go figure.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Which explains all the coaching changes that take place all the time without everyone becoming conference champions every year.

 

[slyker]

But the basic premise of this entire OP is that the money doesnt matter - we are beat for a few more decades regardless.

slyker - what direct comments. I dont see any quotes, let alone sourced quotes. What I see are a bunch of innuendos and people in the industry say(which hones, how many, are they actually in the part of the industry where they would have knowledge, or are they just throwing shit out there too.)

Ask the right questions to enough people and you can always get them to say that you need to prove your point.

You are correct, he did not provide any quotes or sourced quotes as you say. However, wouldn't you agree that anything revealed in interviews of this sort, would likely be "off the record" ? What coach, AD or agent would ever want to say anything publicly regarding a prospective job or future opponent or someone you may be competing for the services of ? I am not surprised at all regarding the lack of actual quotes.

Hey, Thamel could have made everything up, but what would be his motivation for that ? I would think he has proven himself enough to his employers and readers that his information in reliable and well sourced.

All I read was the statement in his article that " As always, information is based on interviews with agents, coaches, search firms and athletic directors". I guess we need to take that for what it's worth. In my mind it's worth a lot more than the typical article about things like this where the writer is basically providing his opinion and based on a few sources. I would think Thamel has a significantly greater network of sources by which he collects info as opposed to many of the others who have opined on this topic.

 

[bitnez]

we are in an extremely tough division and have a state and school that historically have gotten in the way of progress. despite these issues we are in fertile recruiting grounds, we generally have very good crowd support, facilities are solid and it is in the NYC market. sure, the job is not for everyone. the easy answer is the retread with no other options. the other is the guy with the guts who believes that he can take over this area and make us a consistent winner. GS had that in him. I am not saying he's the only one out there but that's type of guy that we need. besides, if it such a crappy job how come Michigan and Miami and eventually TB came calling for our coach?

 

[JoeRU0304]

...I wonder what the OP thought of the Rutgers job back in December 2000 when our 4th choice took the position.


Joe P.

 

[MoobyCow]

Two things. First, what in our recent history makes you think our admin won't go out of their way to do just that?

Putting that aside, define "qualified". Look at the stats I posted about Cristobal's coaching record up above. And he's in contention for the Miami job. So people at Miami must think he's qualified even though, as a head coach, he's even more of loser w/a weaker strength of schedule than Flood has been. Go figure.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Which explains all the coaching changes that take place all the time without everyone becoming conference champions every year.

What makes you think they would? Because we hired on the cheap when we thought we were stuck in the AAC? We paid market for Schiano when we had less money, I'm willing to bet we pay market now, not upper tier, but on par with peer schools. It's not familiarity that breeds contempt with Flood, though that certainly doesn't help him. It's getting smashed 4+ times a year. And this....

I don't think we hire Cristobal, so I don't care what Miami does. I'm surprised he's in contention.

 

[rutgers4life11]

Pete Thamel. Guy HATES Rutgers, and has proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

end thread

 

[RBS05]

The article is old? It's from 2 weeks ago. Did something happen in the last two weeks that changes anything he said?

No but we sure as hell already went through this torturous exercise of responding to the article.

 

[koleszar]

You're assuming that RU was gambling when hiring Flood. But that presupposes that (a) we had alternatives given the poor timing and (b) that we were aiming to win as opposed to aiming to save money.

But I agree that Julie needs to take her time and find the right replacement coach. It's always a gamble, but we can play blackjack here and not a slot machine.

I understand what you're saying but it was a huge gamble. The man had no head coaching experience and the hire was rushed to save a class. People talk now that hiring a lower division head coach is somehow below RU when they already have a coach who has never run anything before except an OL. The AD chose poorly. The timing sucked for sure not going to deny that. But he chose to gamble to save a class instead of doing a coaching search. There are always qualified coaches out there as long as your AD can identify the talent. If your a good AD you can always find alternatives once your 1st choice doesn't sign. You find an up and comer who makes a hell of a lot less than a million but has the qualifications necessary. Sure you could say he had no choice to go into signing day without a head coach but that's the gamble you have to take. I think Pernetti knew this was a huge gamble with the way he structured the original contract which has since been altered. He gave himself an inexpensive out which any qualified coach wouldn't have signed.

 

[RU5781]

...I wonder what the OP thought of the Rutgers job back in December 2000 when our 4th choice took the position.


Joe P.

Excellent point Joe!
We could get Babers, Golden, or Fuentes tomorrow...guaranteed if we wanted to. The three of them of them are an upgrade.

 

[ruman]

Excellent point Joe!
We could get Babers, Golden, or Fuentes tomorrow...guaranteed if we wanted to. The three of them of them are an upgrade.

Not Fuentes - we have no shot - agreed on the other two

 

[RU5781]

Not Fuentes - we have no shot - agreed on the other two

I really like him...who do you think would go after him? Out of the openings, I really can't think of any (MAYBE Maryland)?

 

[RUSK97]

If I was a coach, three things would be important: 1) my compensation package 2) my budget for my staff 3) institutional support. That's it.

Obviously, most of you guys don't see this as the worst P5 coaching job. Which would you consider worse?

 

[slyker]

What makes you think they would? Because we hired on the cheap when we thought we were stuck in the AAC? We paid market for Schiano when we had less money, I'm willing to bet we pay market now, not upper tier, but on par with peer schools. It's not familiarity that breeds contempt with Flood, though that certainly doesn't help him. It's getting smashed 4+ times a year. And this....

I don't think we hire Cristobal, so I don't care what Miami does. I'm surprised he's in contention.

Looks purdy, but Kind of a pointless graph without normalizing the data for the quality of the competition, the only thing that really stands out to me is that the Defensive numbers went drastically up from the year we had 3 NFL defensive backs on our team to the next three years in which we have been basically starting fresh every year in the defensive backfield with True Freshman and Redshirt Freshman playing back there. But that is something discussed in another thread

Edit: and if you want to be fair, the 2015 data is incomplete and skewed due to the fact that RU has already played the most difficult portion of its schedule. I think most would agree there is a good likelihood both the offensive and defensive numbers will improve from where they are after the final three games

 

[MoobyCow]

If I was a coach, three things would be important: 1) my compensation package 2) my budget for my staff 3) institutional support. That's it.

Obviously, most of you guys don't see this as the worst P5 coaching job. Which would you consider worse?

Syracuse and BC would have to top the list I think. Washington St is in a pretty tough spot, Colorado and Vandy have proved tough, Kansas is in a pretty bad spot. Purdue, Illinois, Iowa St, Wake Forest.

It's tough to be the second school in a state that doesn't have great recruiting. It's tough to be in an area with shrinking population or little to no recruiting. It's tough to be a private school as a football school.

RU has some advantages based on location that help even out the disadvantages of pay and support.

Now that isn't a list of jobs open this year, so we could be the worst opening this year at the P5 level.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Purdue
Illinois
Wake
Cuse
Kansas
Iowa St
Vandy
Oregon State

All of which but Iowa State have gone through a revolving door of 4-5 coaches since Schiano took the Rutgers job.

None of them have a recruiting territory similar to Rutgers.

 

[ruman]

I really like him...who do you think would go after him? Out of the openings, I really can't think of any (MAYBE Maryland)?

Like everyone - South Carolina primarily, VT, Miami, Virginia

He's out of our league

 

[vandalen1]

Rutgers has zero advantages. Barchi, Hermann, no money and lots of bad press and no chance to get NJ kids.

Flood didn't get the job to save that class. He got the job because no one else would take it. Someone mentioned Fleck. PJ's package this year is $1.3MM with incentives which he'll hit. Babers, $300K buyout, current staff $2MM buyout.

Nothing is going to happen while Barchi and Hermann are there. Get a new guy at the top, a new AD, money and then see. For now hope for a miracle.

 

[Knight Ed]

Our last coach parlayed his Rutgers gig into an NFL head coaching position. That has to count for something.

 

[slyker]

Syracuse and BC would have to top the list I think. Washington St is in a pretty tough spot, Colorado and Vandy have proved tough, Kansas is in a pretty bad spot. Purdue, Illinois, Iowa St, Wake Forest.

It's tough to be the second school in a state that doesn't have great recruiting. It's tough to be in an area with shrinking population or little to no recruiting. It's tough to be a private school as a football school.

RU has some advantages based on location that help even out the disadvantages of pay and support.

Now that isn't a list of jobs open this year, so we could be the worst opening this year at the P5 level.

And NJ has some big financial disadvantages

Housing cost and taxes taxes taxes

For a guy making 2M. Our almost 9% top tier income tax compared to some in the Midwest like Indiana or Illinois at about 3.5%. Amounts to a pretty hefty difference. That example right there is over $100K difference in tax. And the high cost of housing in our lovely state doesn't help either

 

[czxqa]

The article is old? It's from 2 weeks ago. Did something happen in the last two weeks that changes anything he said?

Yes. You quoted it.

 

[Knight Shift]

Looks purdy, but Kind of a pointless graph without normalizing the data for the quality of the competition, the only thing that really stands out to me is that the Defensive numbers went drastically up from the year we had 3 NFL defensive backs on our team to the next three years in which we have been basically starting fresh every year in the defensive backfield with True Freshman and Redshirt Freshman playing back there. But that is something discussed in another thread

Edit: and if you want to be fair, the 2015 data is incomplete and skewed due to the fact that RU has already played the most difficult portion of its schedule. I think most would agree there is a good likelihood both the offensive and defensive numbers will improve from where they are after the final three games

Want to match quality of competition?
Wisconsin 48 Rutgers 10
Wisconsin 28 Troy 3---I had to look up Troy. They are 3-6 in the Sun Belt.
Wisconsin 28 Hawaii 0- Hawaii is 2-8. They suck.
--------------
Ohio State 49 Rutgers 7
Ohio State 20- NIU 13-- NIU, a 6-3 MAC team that lost to putrid BC and Central Michigan
Ohio State 38 W. MIchigan 12--W. Michigan, a 6-3 MAC

-------
Michigan 49 Rutgers 16
Michigan 28 UNLV 7--- UNLV, a 3-6 Mountain West team.

Average Rutgers margin of loss--38 points
Average Loss of Crappy non P5 teams--21 points.

Why have crappy non-P5 teams kept it closer with our most difficult opponents, while Rutgers needs 6 touchdowns on average to win?

I was more patient until Wisconsin, and then Michigan. But the above is pretty sad.

 

[MoobyCow]

And NJ has some big financial disadvantages

Housing cost and taxes taxes taxes

For a guy making 2M. Our almost 9% top tier income tax compared to some in the Midwest like Indiana or Illinois at about 3.5%. Amounts to a pretty hefty difference. That example right there is over $100K difference in tax. And the high cost of housing in our lovely state doesn't help either

No doubt, the take home salary could be an issue, but mostly I think these guys are concerned with, 'Can I win there?' 'What is the upside?' 'Is this a good career move?' When you're making millions the salary is used more as a way of keeping score than as a concern over how much winds up in your paycheck after taxes.

 

[Wutevah]

I really like him...who do you think would go after him? Out of the openings, I really can't think of any (MAYBE Maryland)?

I can see someone like USC(e) go after him pretty hard. Look at the success that Florida is having with a MW coach this year for example. Some of the big time schools are going to go after Rhule,Fuentes and Herman hard.

 

[brgossRU90]

We have "fans" highlighting the ways in which coaching for our team and living in our state are horrible and then people complain about the low opinion others have of new jersey, blaming it on new York media. Maybe some of YOU guys need to root for another team if you think rutgers is such a dump.

 

[Nosoj]

I can see someone like USC(e) go after him pretty hard. Look at the success that Florida is having with a MW coach this year for example. Some of the big time schools are going to go after Rhule,Fuentes and Herman hard.

Reportedly Tom Herman is the favorite for South Carolina. http://southcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/One-leader-for-the-South-Carolina-job-40848854

 

[LSRF]

Moorehead from Fordam. Got a feeling about that feller.

is that Craven Moorehead?

 

[Nosoj]

Fuente seems to be the leader in the clubhouse at VT: http://southcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/Leading-candidates-at-Virginia-Tech-40971887

 

[mildone]

What makes you think they would? Because we hired on the cheap when we thought we were stuck in the AAC? We paid market for Schiano when we had less money, I'm willing to bet we pay market now, not upper tier, but on par with peer schools. It's not familiarity that breeds contempt with Flood, though that certainly doesn't help him. It's getting smashed 4+ times a year. And this....

I don't think we hire Cristobal, so I don't care what Miami does. I'm surprised he's in contention.

Believe me. You don't have to convince me that Flood's not the guy. I never thought he was from the day he was hired. OTOH, I won't be surprised if he winds up with another head-coaching job at another P5 school because familiarity breeds contempt.

But more importantly, what I'm saying is that finding the right guy is going to be way more difficult than people think and will require some luck, some good timing and lots of money. And part of doing it right means paying for really good, experienced, winning coordinators. Something RU has mostly failed to do over the years.

I tend to think 4real is correct and that the RU admin is not interested in spending any money on a truly good coaching staff right now.

 

[MoobyCow]

Believe me. You don't have to convince me that Flood's not the guy. I never thought he was from the day he was hired. OTOH, I won't be surprised if he winds up with another head-coaching job at another P5 school because familiarity breeds contempt.

But more importantly, what I'm saying is that finding the right guy is going to be way more difficult than people think and will require some luck, some good timing and lots of money. And part of doing it right means paying for really good, experienced, winning coordinators. Something RU has mostly failed to do over the years.

I tend to think 4real is correct and that the RU admin is not interested in spending any money on a truly good coaching staff right now.

Could be. I've heard there is money for a market level staff in the Big Ten, but until it actually happens I will be a bit skeptical. If there's one thing RU knows how to do it is F up a hire.

 

[mildone]

I understand what you're saying but it was a huge gamble. The man had no head coaching experience and the hire was rushed to save a class. People talk now that hiring a lower division head coach is somehow below RU when they already have a coach who has never run anything before except an OL. The AD chose poorly. The timing sucked for sure not going to deny that. But he chose to gamble to save a class instead of doing a coaching search. There are always qualified coaches out there as long as your AD can identify the talent. If your a good AD you can always find alternatives once your 1st choice doesn't sign. You find an up and comer who makes a hell of a lot less than a million but has the qualifications necessary. Sure you could say he had no choice to go into signing day without a head coach but that's the gamble you have to take. I think Pernetti knew this was a huge gamble with the way he structured the original contract which has since been altered. He gave himself an inexpensive out which any qualified coach wouldn't have signed.

I see your point. But again, if we're going to search out a good replacement, we should take our time and do it right. And I think we can hedge our bets a little bit by placing the emphasis on who we hire vs. who we fire. Firing is easy and we can do it anytime we want. Hiring well with limited resources is really hard. So if it means delaying because the right person isn't yet available (or can't be persuaded yet), or because we need a bit more Big Ten TV money, then I'm okay waiting. I mean, it sucks, but I can live with it.

We made a mistake when we rushed into hiring Flood. Let's not make the same mistake just because Flood isn't who we want.

 

[mildone]

Now that isn't a list of jobs open this year, so we could be the worst opening this year at the P5 level.

Which gets to my point about timing.

 

[MoobyCow]

Which gets to my point about timing.

It's like market timing. Don't do it. If your coach isn't working out, fire him. There's no guarantee that next year gives you a better choice of candidates.

 

[knightfan7]

If I was a coach, three things would be important: 1) my compensation package 2) my budget for my staff 3) institutional support. That's it.

Obviously, most of you guys don't see this as the worst P5 coaching job. Which would you consider worse?

Those are the 3 of the top 5 or so keys for me and RU fails badly with them all.

Even with that said I can't see RU being as worse a situation as Kansas, Oregon State, Wake Forest, and Syracuse. I'd put it on the same level as Illinois, Indiana, BC, Vandy, Wake, and Ia State.

 

[mildone]

It's like market timing. Don't do it. If your coach isn't working out, fire him. There's no guarantee that next year gives you a better choice of candidates.

This is true. But I don't subscribe the feeling that delaying for a year will kill the program. This really does seem like a very bad year to be on the employer side of D1 FB coaching. So while it's possible next year will be just as bad, it's hard to see it being worse. And we will have a bit more TV money (at least I think we will).

Regardless of what we fans think though, I still think it's more likely than not that the RU admin is going to give Flood a pass for this season. Although perhaps we'll see a new coordinator again.

 

[MoobyCow]

This is true. But I don't subscribe the feeling that delaying for a year will kill the program. This really does seem like a very bad year to be on the employer side of D1 FB coaching. So while it's possible next year will be just as bad, it's hard to see it being worse. And we will have a bit more TV money (at least I think we will).

Regardless of what we fans think though, I still think it's more likely than not that the RU admin is going to give Flood a pass for this season. Although perhaps we'll see a new coordinator again.

It will probably kill my interest and my willingness to buy tickets. I have a family and lots of things they would like to do on Saturdays in the fall. Hell there's lots of things I'd like to do as well. It's hard to justify spending thousands for our tickets and donations and set aside multiple Saturdays in the fall to watch a team get steamrolled. That's not necessarily a reason for RU to make a change (unless a critical mass of fans decide the same thing) but it is a reason for me to really hope for change this year. I liked watching competitive football. I liked dreaming we could win a big game. I miss it.

 

[mildone]

It will probably kill my interest and my willingness to buy tickets. I have a family and lots of things they would like to do on Saturdays in the fall. Hell there's lots of things I'd like to do as well. It's hard to justify spending thousands for our tickets and donations and set aside multiple Saturdays in the fall to watch a team get steamrolled. That's not necessarily a reason for RU to make a change (unless a critical mass of fans decide the same thing) but it is a reason for me to really hope for change this year. I liked watching competitive football. I liked dreaming we could win a big game. I miss it.

I hear you. I can't help with the competitive thing; that's on RU to do the right things.

But w/respect to the family, my advice never changes. Sell the wife and kids and use the money to pay for more important things like parking/ticket upgrades and better quality meat for the tailgate.

I'll never stop kicking myself for not selling my blonde haired, blue eyed daughter when she was still young enough to fetch a pretty penny from some Saudi prince. Waited too long and now I've had to pay for her college, her world travels, probably grad school, and eventually her damn wedding. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[koleszar]

It will probably kill my interest and my willingness to buy tickets. I have a family and lots of things they would like to do on Saturdays in the fall. Hell there's lots of things I'd like to do as well. It's hard to justify spending thousands for our tickets and donations and set aside multiple Saturdays in the fall to watch a team get steamrolled. That's not necessarily a reason for RU to make a change (unless a critical mass of fans decide the same thing) but it is a reason for me to really hope for change this year. I liked watching competitive football. I liked dreaming we could win a big game. I miss it.

This is a very good point. If you do bring back Flood you take the risk of losing the fan base which took quite a while to build. A new coach next year will keep that if for nothing else but seeing that RU is trying something anything. If you wait another year the fan base might just be beaten down yet again and say enough of these blowouts I don't care if they get another coach. Then as the new coach tries to build back up the fans won't be there. They'll wait till he starts winning again. Interesting to see what will transpire if they do decide to keep Flood next year. Might just turn out to be the kiss of death with the fan base. Or it could not.

 

[brickknight]

I know my wife and kids have had enough of just plain old Boring, non competitive football and it's going to be a tough sell to renew with flood at the helm. Me, I'm a glutton for punishment ha

 

[82RU]

If Bud Foster does not get the gig at Va Tech, I would be tempted to take a shot at him.