Straightforward poll: should CVS be replaced before next season: yes or no?
- Thread starter RC66
- Start date
As context: as the OP of this thread:
I gave up our 15+ years of section 103 season tickets this year because I saw this debacle coming.
But, I have been a CVS supporter for over 20 years.
Looking back, in the 50+ years since my graduation, nothing, not one single thing, made prouder of my school than how, years ago, CVS and her team handled that Imus stupidity.
CVS's commitment to helping make her players not only great basketball players, but women of substance, was and is to me the epitome of what academic sports should be.
But, as I said in my OP, it's time. It's time.
I gave up our 15+ years of section 103 season tickets this year because I saw this debacle coming.
But, I have been a CVS supporter for over 20 years.
Looking back, in the 50+ years since my graduation, nothing, not one single thing, made prouder of my school than how, years ago, CVS and her team handled that Imus stupidity.
CVS's commitment to helping make her players not only great basketball players, but women of substance, was and is to me the epitome of what academic sports should be.
But, as I said in my OP, it's time. It's time.
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I voted Yes (it should have been done prior to her last contract). I don't begrudge her the money owed - Hobbs gave her the contract so that's on him and if she is not violating any part of her contract with her current absence then that is on Hobbs also.
Respect your opinion. Don’t think it’s prudent to plan for 4 more years, given the health issues, but I do think legends deserve a farewell tour.
Farewell tour? This is not a coach in waiting situation. That would mean that a replacement is put off a minimum of another year. Recruiting will suffer another 2-3 years.
I think the farewell tour would have been a great idea before her leave of absence and the confusion surrounding that LOA.
Vivian deserves being honored and I believe giving her a Day of Honor and Recognition just before the season starts while naming her HC Emeritus should be enough
This season made any farewell tour impossible because of the confusion over Stringer's status and since she wasn't part of the program, her farewell was that LOA (in my book)
Honor her but not a farewell tour, meaning she's the HC, RU needs to replace her.
Her record indicates a downhill trend. No one can doubt, her record proves it, that she was once a successful coach able to relate to her players. That time has passed, and the number of transfers out of the program in the past few years confirms it. She needs to retire or be forced out. There is no middle ground.
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#1, I do feel it's time for CVS to leave and hope it's a graceful exit.
#2 as far as transfers are concerned, RU isn't the only program that has seen an uptick since transferring has been made easier .
RU also seen transfers arrive .
#3 the downward trend was true for her, but in recent years ( except this LOA one)
RU WBB seemed to be in an upward trend.
I agree transfers in the day of the portal will be more prevalent than in years prior (although there has been precedent set of transfers out of program prior to the portal). Only issue is not all transfers are created equal. The transfers into this program are nowhere near the level of the talent that has left this program. Also many of the transfers out of the program left with multiple years available to play whereas the payers that arrived came in as postgrad (covid seniors) or with one year of eligibility remaining.
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I probably left someone out , but feel Diamond was the only major loss of those with multiple years left and not sure of how many years the other transfers have left
Diamond Johnson will be missed and has a few years eligibility left
Johnson didn't do as well as expected as a member of the WolfPack, (11.2 ptg >4.4 rbg>2.3apg
and a 40% FGA) but that doesn't mean show won't tear it up in her Junior and Senior years
Mael Gilles grad transfer went to ASU and was a big part of the Sun Devil program this year
Zippy Broughton, really didn’t stand out in her 3 years in program, but a player that had lots of potential . Zip did fairly well as a Gator averaging 9.9 a game 3.8 rb, 1.8 ast with 36.3 FG%
Tekia Mack grad transfer who used covid eligibility to go to DePaul
So comparing the ones transferred out with the ones transferred in might just be considered a wash
for this season at least and not realy sure if Rutgers lost players with more than one year of eligibility left except for Diamond, but covid role might make the difference.
I would say diamond was a huge loss and shifts the pendulum of last year. I was speaking of historic transfers in/out not just last years (edited my response and took out a sentence that would have made that clear). More talent out versus in.
I think we all want what is best for the program. There is valid reason to wonder whether Coach Stringer is healthy enough to continue on. We know that Tim is not the answer. With that said, there is no need to exaggerate things or just make up things to try to make the case against CVS.(In reference to talk of declining record and transfers over last few hours)
As I stated earlier, the loss of Diamond, our cornerstone who was to take over the lead role of the team after Arella, was the beginning of the end. Last postseason's team chemistry issues seemed to be the catalyst to Tekia and Mael to want to move on. Zippy,....IdK....maybe she identified with that veteran group that was moving on and didn't feel aligned with the young class that was returning once it was known that Diamond was leaving.
It isn't really clear that we lost Zippy and Diamond because of CVS. We can see that they are both enjoying the kind of platform that they had never seen at RU. Zippy got all the pregame media today. Last week she and her parents got coverage during a win. Rutgers, unfortunately has not enjoyed that kind of media coverage. BTN is not even close to the ACC and SEC Networks.
Zippy has blossomed down the stretch of this season with Florida(especially since Briggs left), taking up where she left off from early last season with us, when she was breaking out as the highly recruited player we expected. Unfortunately she got injured and couldn't recover last year.
Don't be fooled. Just because Diamond doesn't start, does not mean she is not playing starter level ball. She is going to be key to NC St's success and will likely be centerstage of that platform that she so badly sought after.
We can only dream what this season could have been if Diamond and Zippy had stayed to lead Osh, Lasha, and the crew under the leadership of Nadine instead of Tim.
As I stated earlier, the loss of Diamond, our cornerstone who was to take over the lead role of the team after Arella, was the beginning of the end. Last postseason's team chemistry issues seemed to be the catalyst to Tekia and Mael to want to move on. Zippy,....IdK....maybe she identified with that veteran group that was moving on and didn't feel aligned with the young class that was returning once it was known that Diamond was leaving.
It isn't really clear that we lost Zippy and Diamond because of CVS. We can see that they are both enjoying the kind of platform that they had never seen at RU. Zippy got all the pregame media today. Last week she and her parents got coverage during a win. Rutgers, unfortunately has not enjoyed that kind of media coverage. BTN is not even close to the ACC and SEC Networks.
Zippy has blossomed down the stretch of this season with Florida(especially since Briggs left), taking up where she left off from early last season with us, when she was breaking out as the highly recruited player we expected. Unfortunately she got injured and couldn't recover last year.
Don't be fooled. Just because Diamond doesn't start, does not mean she is not playing starter level ball. She is going to be key to NC St's success and will likely be centerstage of that platform that she so badly sought after.
We can only dream what this season could have been if Diamond and Zippy had stayed to lead Osh, Lasha, and the crew under the leadership of Nadine instead of Tim.
Yes, to those who are "vague" about it, Johnson upgraded herself considerably in the short term. More publicity, ACC 6th player of the year - yes, of course she would have been featured at Rutgers, but the exposure would be less. Her team is considered a #1 seed lock for the tourney.
Zippy had a nice run toward the end of the season and a lot of publicity, as was mentioned.
As to why anyone left, I have no insight. But it has been a trend over recent years that, while the program was not in as bad shape as this board would sometimes suggest, toward the end of the season things seemed always to head south, chemistry wise and results wise. I don't know why.
I am a huge CVS supporter. I also have always been clear eyed about Rutgers Women's Basketball and about CVS as a coach. Like others, I think it is time. Mostly, because of missing this season, therefore, not really developing a relationship with what players that will be back. I just think it is past the time where it is reasonable to expect her to rebuild the program, and I think that is what is needed.
Zippy had a nice run toward the end of the season and a lot of publicity, as was mentioned.
As to why anyone left, I have no insight. But it has been a trend over recent years that, while the program was not in as bad shape as this board would sometimes suggest, toward the end of the season things seemed always to head south, chemistry wise and results wise. I don't know why.
I am a huge CVS supporter. I also have always been clear eyed about Rutgers Women's Basketball and about CVS as a coach. Like others, I think it is time. Mostly, because of missing this season, therefore, not really developing a relationship with what players that will be back. I just think it is past the time where it is reasonable to expect her to rebuild the program, and I think that is what is needed.
A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
99-5 vote here…(18 Mar)
Says a lot…and yet she’s likely to be the coach come fall…Having cvs as coach will not be the advantage it used to be…🤷🏻♂️
Says a lot…and yet she’s likely to be the coach come fall…Having cvs as coach will not be the advantage it used to be…🤷🏻♂️
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If she is not violating her contract she deserves her money. Don't confuse my statement as agreeing with what she is currently doing.
How many games over the past 4-5 years did I wonder about coach Stringer and her inability to actually look like she had some modicum of intensity in her coaching style. The calmness part was ok in the past but in this era of sports a little animation at the very least can inspire not only the team but…the fans. I have ALWAYS supported Rutgers women’s sports in particular WBB and Softball teams. I still because of my Mrs. follow women’s soccer, lacrosse , gymnastics and the other aforementioned sports. That being said, I believe a change in coaching is needed and to be clear, not a former CV Stringer former player . Go get the best out there. We are not any longer unable to do that. There are a number of younger, highly qualified coaches who just may not mind coming in to coach at Rutgers. They may not worry about following a HOF … they have enough of a belief in being able to succeed. I voted for a change but that decision will be left up to the hierarchy in charge.
Nice 1st post on this board, unless you have two different handles, NOT.
I wouldn't promote that 3rd place in a truncated shortened season, missing games against Oh St, Iowa, Maryland , Northwestern , Michigan and Indiana.
3rd place yes, but with an asterisk.
Point taken but we can't just look at those as automatic losses. Before this season, we had beaten Ohio St three times in a row, including the season referenced here. Also beat Northwestern by 16 at their place after the first matchup was cancelled.
Yes, we've struggled most with Indiana, Iowa, and Maryland but always played them toe-to-toe. Wins were not out of the question if those games had been played.
I don't remember, but did the other top teams have other challenging games cancelled that season also?
That was an impressive season for us, a team that was predicted preseason to be in the bottom half of the B1G(as they have regularly done to us, only to have us prove them wrong). Not counting this season, the B1G has not given our program its' just due respect. The addition of Maryland and Rutgers has lifted the level of play in this league immensely from a toughness standpoint. Remember, most teams couldn't get the ball across halfcourt against the 55 when we entered the league. I distinctly remember the Indy's, Mich St., Mich. and the like, raising their level talent-wise to be able to deal with our playing style which in turn, has helped them to be competitive at a top 25 level(top 10 for Mich, and Indy) .
Yes, we've struggled most with Indiana, Iowa, and Maryland but always played them toe-to-toe. Wins were not out of the question if those games had been played.
I don't remember, but did the other top teams have other challenging games cancelled that season also?
That was an impressive season for us, a team that was predicted preseason to be in the bottom half of the B1G(as they have regularly done to us, only to have us prove them wrong). Not counting this season, the B1G has not given our program its' just due respect. The addition of Maryland and Rutgers has lifted the level of play in this league immensely from a toughness standpoint. Remember, most teams couldn't get the ball across halfcourt against the 55 when we entered the league. I distinctly remember the Indy's, Mich St., Mich. and the like, raising their level talent-wise to be able to deal with our playing style which in turn, has helped them to be competitive at a top 25 level(top 10 for Mich, and Indy) .
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I do think we need to accelerate the transition. Hopefully, for everyone, she sees it the same way gives it a final year and leaves the imprint of her legacy on the team.
CVS reversed the downward trend , before this season in which she sat out, but didn't return RU WBB back into the type of program it was in it;s glory days.
When you say downward trend , you implying the program isn't a winner even though it earned NCAA Tourney bids ( excluding the 2021-22 season in which Stringer wasn't the HC, 2 of the last
3 seasons she coached RU.
The one that Rutgers didn't go was because the Tourney was canceled.
If one is going to say downward trend , they are wrong because Rutgers has improved the last few years under Stringer, but it can be said Vivian hasn't shown she can make RU WBB a top program again and RU needs to find someone that can.
Let's stop implying RU WBB is a losing program and just admit that we expect more than 20 wins and a first round and out in tourney play.
We feel Rutgers Women's Basketball can be a top program again , but C.Vivian Stringer seems not to be capable of doing that anymore, even if she has RU the type of program that can make it to the Dance
When you say downward trend , you implying the program isn't a winner even though it earned NCAA Tourney bids ( excluding the 2021-22 season in which Stringer wasn't the HC, 2 of the last
3 seasons she coached RU.
The one that Rutgers didn't go was because the Tourney was canceled.
If one is going to say downward trend , they are wrong because Rutgers has improved the last few years under Stringer, but it can be said Vivian hasn't shown she can make RU WBB a top program again and RU needs to find someone that can.
Let's stop implying RU WBB is a losing program and just admit that we expect more than 20 wins and a first round and out in tourney play.
We feel Rutgers Women's Basketball can be a top program again , but C.Vivian Stringer seems not to be capable of doing that anymore, even if she has RU the type of program that can make it to the Dance
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How come on this poll you can't see who voted each way? Is that a setting you select when creating the poll? Just wondering.
Well said. We have higher expectations for WBB given what she has accomplished. I also think loyalty is important - CViv was loyal to RU when RU was only loyal to football and left the other programs to their own devices. Now that we’ve got some money and are making investments, we should pay back that loyalty.
So to be clear she wasn't paid very well and passed on a whole bunch of opportunities that came her way?
Please tell us her salary rankings over the years and list the offers she turned down. Would love to see.
You can do that research on salaries, but you don’t think she would have had more success at a school with D1 caliber facilities rather than the embarrassing basketball facilities we had for the 15 years prior to the APC?
There absolutely was a period where the recruits Rutgers got, while good players, did not compare in skill or number to what was going elsewhere due to facilities. That several of these players turned out to be pretty good pro players is to CVS's credit.
After a number of good, but certainly not great, years, Rutgers got the facilities and recruiting looked upward, but I think a lot of fans are actually reacting to the dismal endings of a number of seasons. It appeared the locker room went south, the chemistry collapsed, Rutgers lost games near the end that would have positioned them better for post season and then collapsed in the actual postseason tourney(s).
Fans are frustrated, and this dismal season has just been a capstone. While I disagree with those who are identifying specific games RU ought to have won (I wish it was that simple) the talent on the court this year should have predicted a better finish.
Ive come to accept that it’s probably not prudent to tie the next 4 years of the program to a septuagenarian who has had health issues the last couple of seasons, we will all get there at some point…but I do think we owe her better than pushing her out after this one. She’s meant a lot of students, student-athletes, alums and women everywhere and I think however we move on, that’s taken into account. I don’t think giving her another season is much to ask, nor will it be a catastrophic to the program. Still has a strong 2022 recruiting class.
I trust that Hobbs will make the right hire in 2023 and CViv can pick out the right statue to put in front of a new facade for the RAC.
Just my opinion.
Not sure I do. There are something like 350 D1 basketball programs and you don't think the RAC was one of them? Frankly I haven't seen a change in recruitment for either program driven by the APC. We haven't had the Power 5 level practice facility , true. But to suggest the RAC..considered one of the best BBall environments in the country is an embarrassment I don't get. Did Diamond transfer out of Rutgers because the APC wasn't good enough?
And to be clear. Please don't interpret my comments to be lacking in appreciation for the great things she accomplished in the past. I'm not suggesting she didn't deserve what she was paid years past. But this is still a good bit of a business and loyalty has other forms. This concept of moving into an admin role is certainly a good example IMO.
I was a big advocate for the women's program and have attended games going all the way back to my frosh year in '77. MY interest in the program has waned last few years and I watched only one game this year. First round PSU. Something's got to change. (or not).
I have supported Vivian Stringer though thick and thin on on this board, but I find the idea of keeping her as the RU HC if Hobbs feels she can't do the job as good as it should be done ( health or any reason)anymore counter productive to the health of the program.
As for loyalty, forget about the LOA she took because that wasn't loyalty for years coaching RU but respect for a health concern from someone that had good reason to be concerned, Hobbs already proved RU is loyal to CVS and appreciates all she has done for the RU WBB program thought the years she has been part of it
In Stringer's last extension, it had that Vivian could move into an administrative position at RU (Athletic Department I presume) if she wanted to before her contract expired keeping the salary she was making as Head Coach to the day her contract with Rutgers ended.
That is RU being loyal to CVS, in my book
Another season might hurt RU WBB instead of helping it, Vivian might find it hard to bring in HS talent with them knowing she's leaving after the 2022-23 season and the type of year (2021-22) the program had without her coaching it.
I;d say put that statue up, name Vivian Head Coach Emeritus and hire a quality replacement for the 2022-23 RU WBB season.
With the fatigue issue a couple of years ago, her LOA of Absence for the 2021-22 season, Vivian should understand that it will take more than her name anymore to bring in HS talent and the future of RU WBB might be in jeopardy if she comes back after taking the season off.
Her age and past time away from the program might just make her returning a blow to recruiting the type of talent that would make RU WBB a real good program, even if her coaching ability is still good..
It's time for Vivian to step away from the job that Rutgers always compensated her well and enter the next phase of her career while getting paid like the HC she was.
That would be showing loyalty to the program she ran for so long, if she decided to that route while still being involved with the program in an administrative role in the Athletic Department and as Coach Emeritus
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