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The Back-Up Point Guard Problem/Shaq Carter

Well, I think both of the guys mentioned will be back, they won’t transfer. But I also think Pikiell will use the last scholarship on somebody that can play center and can score a bit.

I brought it up, but it's a little premature to talk about transfers. There are reasons kids would want to transfer, and the rules make it favorable for them. Sitting out a year is very beneficial for some students. Players will transfer at the end of the year. I could see at least one.

I agree though. The JUCO route has not worked out well thus far. Also, redshirts have to be used effectively, and to the benefit of the player.
 
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I agree with Scangg, regarding the obsession with Carter. Shaquille Doorson has given us what we need this year and Coach comments all the time about weight he dropped, allowing him to be more agile and now fully healthy, which is just a little surprising to the staff and the rest of us. Myles will certainly be our center next year and his weight loss has helped him compete immediately. Duke to me looks to have put on too much weight and does not look fluid and looks slower this year which puts him third in the center spot . I am sure that there will be games when both Shaquille and Duke will be in foul trouble and we will see Carter helping fill in minutes with Myles. By hat point in the season Carter should be up to snuff on Jay Young’s defensive teachings and hopefully his athleticism lets him score a little around the hoop.
Regarding next year , I would hope Coach uses the last scholarship on a 6’8-6’9 power forward - center that can score to increase the depth up front . We are set up at guard with Geo,Mulcahy, Young , and Caleb, and we are set up at the 2-3 and 4 with Kiss, Mathis, Issa, Harper, and Eugene with Geo sliding over to play the 2 guard.
 
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The obsession from my perspective anyway is that while it may not matter much this year, it’s fair to wonder if a frontcourt rotation of Johnson, Doucoure, and Carter will allow this team to win 23 or so games next year like some of us are hoping for. Doucoure may improve his contribution level and Carter may turn out to be decent, but they’re question marks at best right now.
Don’t underestimate duke. People want Shaq to transfer after every year and now he is vital. Duke will be better than Shaq as an upperclassman.
 
Obsession? I must have missed the 10 or so threads on him the last couple of days. :rolleyes:

If you had been paying attention, Carter received a lot of interest prior to the season on this board, especially with regard to whether he could help to replace Freeman's production or even take a lion's share of the minutes at center. There was talk about his high Juco national ranking, his size underneath, his rebounding ability. Some people (not many) even listed him in their projected starting lineups at center. Many people were expecting him to play 15+ min/game this year, while others were cautioning to put the brakes on those expectations based on his Juco play last year.

Instead, he's played 11 min through 6 games, and it's understandable that would draw some attention. Why wouldn't it?

We're currently only playing an 8 man rotation, with just 2 guys taller than 6-7 in the post. While Doorson/Johnson/Omoruyi/Harper have been doing a good job in the post, it's likely as we enter B1G play that we'll run into foul trouble at points and will need to dip deeper into Doucoure/Carter at times. So far, we don't know what that will look like, because they've had so few minutes this year.
If you were paying attention you would have seen about 100 posts about Carter this year already. Yes he was hyped preseason. So what? If big Shaq and Myles looked bad and EO was struggling I would get it. They are all playing great. I posted asking this in ask the staff preseason. It was obvious at least one big man was going to be squeezed out of the rotation. It happens to be Carter. It was always going to be someone
 
Don’t underestimate duke. People want Shaq to transfer after every year and now he is vital. Duke will be better than Shaq as an upperclassman.
Exactly. Same as McConnell who is versatile enough to play the 1 through 3 and will develop over the next several years. Lack of continuity and transfers are what has hurt this program. I hope no one transfers out, and the staff gets a chance to develop these guys.

In particular, posters speculating that a guy will transfer 6 games into his freshman year (after having an injury and the death of a close friend near the beginning of the season), or speculating that a guy that started 20+ games last year after reclassifying is going to transfer... that's ridiculous.
 
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I’m also surprised that Pike hasn’t gotten Carter more minutes. We’ve had some blowout games and Shaq only has eleven minutes. Wish that were 30+.

As for PG. (we all know the season’s over if Geo goes down. ) I think the goal should be to get four minutes out of Caleb for now. Maybe that can increase, but not with current performance. Would love to see CM have a game with 6 points and 2 assists.
 
Play Downes four minutes a game. He can fill the spot. This is most critical on stretches with many games. Baker gets a break at halftime.

Baker should be okay playing 36 minutes with time in between games. What is critical is that he stays hydrated, and is eating well (lean proteins, good fats, and fruits/vegetables) during this time period.
Lol BK can you please report on Geo’s lean protein intake?
 
Lol BK can you please report on Geo’s lean protein intake?

I have ate next to athletes in undergrad. It was under a different coach, but you would be surprised with what they eat. And the reasoning of, " They will burn it off anyway" is not good enough.

I know a recent Rutgers pg who had a very poor diet.
 
I have ate next to athletes in undergrad. It was under a different coach, but you would be surprised with what they eat. And the reasoning of, " They will burn it off anyway" is not good enough.

I know a recent Rutgers pg who had a very poor diet.
Geo seems a lot more responsible
 
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Geo seems a lot more responsible

My previous comment was not saying he wasn't. Baker is one of the best kids, and players Rutgers will have for a long time coming. He is on another level.

My point was what it takes for a player to remain healthy when under heavy minutes. Simple as that.
 
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If you were paying attention you would have seen about 100 posts about Carter this year already. Yes he was hyped preseason. So what? If big Shaq and Myles looked bad and EO was struggling I would get it. They are all playing great. I posted asking this in ask the staff preseason. It was obvious at least one big man was going to be squeezed out of the rotation. It happens to be Carter. It was always going to be someone

There have been exactly two threads since the start of the season that focused on Carter (this being one of them). Most of his other mentions were in game threads, box score lists, or post game mentions.

He was hyped in the preseason and has played 11 minutes so far - if you don't understand why people are wondering if/when he'll see the court, and for how much time, then I don't know what to tell you. By contrast, Mensah and Bullock got *far* more attention last year than Carter has gotten this year, so I don't think there's in any way an out of the ordinary number mentions for a down-roster scholarship player.

It's not a matter of which big man got squeezed out of the rotation, really. We're undoubtedly going to get into foul trouble with our bigs at some point this season, and Doucoure/Carter will be pressed into action. Doucoure has seen plenty of Divi-I game reps at this point, but Carter hasn't - one would think he'd get some burn against lesser opponents in blowouts just to help get him up to speed, but he hasn't - which has some scratching their heads as to why. If he built up 100 min or so in the OOC, I think there'd be more comfort level with him coming in for 10+ min in the second half of a game against a B1G opponent if Doorson/Johnson/Omoruyi each picked up 3+ fouls.

On the flip side, though, it's important that Johnson and Harper to see a lot of reps at the 5/4, too. If anything, his minutes would probably come at the expense of Omoruyi/Doorson at the end of blowout games, just to keep them fresh and reduce wear/tear on their bodies. Then again, it may well be that Pike has enough faith in his and Doucoure's abilities to step up in foul trouble situations that he doesn't feel as concerned about getting them live reps at this point.
 
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I have ate next to athletes in undergrad. It was under a different coach, but you would be surprised with what they eat. And the reasoning of, " They will burn it off anyway" is not good enough.

I know a recent Rutgers pg who had a very poor diet.

Years back when Rice was here, I worked with a personal trainer who worked with the team. She said their diets were terrible - one player didn't have even the basic understanding of preparing food for himself, and mostly just ate fast food. She said there was all of this stuff in the locker room - protein shakes, power bars, etc - and no one took any of them. One player took one bite of a power bar, then spit it out on the floor.
 
Sa played pretty well down the stretch last season. How many guys do you all expect to get run in the rotation? Duke was a starter last year and is having trouble finding minutes. Tell me whose minutes you want Carter taking right now before we imply that Pike made a mistake with the schollie.

As to back-up PG, McConnell went through a lot right before the season. Let's see what he does in the rest of the OOC following @Wisky. His highlights are still really intriguing and he's a true frosh
Agree. I find it comical how fast posters want to run guys off. For years, we have been saying that we need to develop players and stop attrition due to transfers or academics.

Then, we finally get a roster of guys we can develop and when they don't light it up instantly we have them transferring. Ridiculous. Look at the minutes Shaq Doorson gave us at the end of last year and is giving us this year. I remember reading several posts during the off season trying to run him off to free up a scholarship so the same posters could call for running off the new guy. It never ends with some fans. Enjoy the build. Thankfully, most fans on this board are.
 
Years back when Rice was here, I worked with a personal trainer who worked with the team. She said their diets were terrible - one player didn't have even the basic understanding of preparing food for himself, and mostly just ate fast food. She said there was all of this stuff in the locker room - protein shakes, power bars, etc - and no one took any of them. One player took one bite of a power bar, then spit it out on the floor.

Absolutely. Habits are hard to break. If you are an elite athlete, and you eat well, you can take your game to an even higher level.
 
Agree. I find it comical how fast posters want to run guys off. For years, we have been saying that we need to develop players and stop attrition due to transfers or academics.

Then, we finally get a roster of guys we can develop and when they don't light it up instantly we have them transferring. Ridiculous. Look at the minutes Shaq Doorson gave us at the end of last year and is giving us this year. I remember reading several posts during the off season trying to run him off to free up a scholarship so the same posters could call for running off the new guy. It never ends with some fans. Enjoy the build. Thankfully, most fans on this board are.
I havent seen posters trying to run people off. Maybe I just missed them.
 
I don't see these two situations as being remotely in the same ballpark with regard to current level of concern or potential problems. If McConnell or someone else can't give us serviceable stretches as Geo's back up, there are going to be nights when we are going to pay the price for that. I would not be surprised to see teams trying to exploit the number of minutes Geo is playing by pressing us, playing him tight in the half court and trying to create match ups that require him to guard their best offensive guard to either wear him down, or get him in foul trouble. While Mulcahy and Young are expected to address this next year, how significant our improvement this year may depend whether Geo has to average 32 of 38 minutes.

I agree with others is that its too early to know what Carter brings to the table. The good thing is that unlike Souf, we are not reliant on him given the presence of three other bigs. I think we know what we get from Shaq D. Myles will probably be up and down but you need to let him play through that. I am still bullish on Duke and expect to see him banging with Ward a bit this evening. Let's wait awhile before passing judgment on Shaq C.
 
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Nobody has any perspective I guess.

It's December of 2016, we have a grad transfer in CJ Gettys playing, Ibrahima Diallo barely played early in that season, Shaq Doorson could not play more than 3 minutes at a time and Candido Sa was found to provide defense and rebounding.

The staff has landed Doucoure later that month as a big and looks at the roster for the following season and sees Diallo as a backup that probably isn't the best fit BUT he played valuable minutes at times on the road at Seton Hall later that month, but was not healthy most of that season....he decides to transfer after that season to Manhattan.

Shaq Doorson is 340 pounds back in 2016 when Shaq arrives...., he's dragging around a bad foot and the staff starts scouring around for rebounding and size and looks into Shaq Carter during the 2016-17 season, who had a fast start as a freshman JUCO player....I was clued in about Pike making multiple visits to FLA and making headway on his recruitment. We start really recruiting him harder and others gather interest as well.

Fast forward with no Gettys, Sa as a senior and Shaq Doorson is in a walking boot after surgery with no offseason conditioning in the spring of 2017....The staff explores Doucoure enrolling early and that happens, even though it was rumored as a likely item back after the 2016/17 season ended.

We continue to recruit Carter and land him in October of last year....Doorson is still a non factor before last season starts and not healthy and Doucoure, technically a 2018 recruit is now here early, with no summer training camp and vicious learning curve. Sa is still around as a complimentary player that provides better defense and rebounding, which is his role, but he's a senior about to depart......and we have no idea whether Doorson was a viable grad school option at RU or would he decide to take a 5th year elsewhere. You absolutely have to chase down Shaq Carter, there could have been no options up front.

Meanwhile, while we are recruiting Shaq Carter behind the scenes, Jay Young stumbles onto Myles Johnson in Indianapolis in the spring of 2017 and we start looking closer at him....he's also hampered by a bad knee from the prior season and carrying a ton of extra weight, but has a skill set of a small player at 6'10". We quickly and aggressively offer him, along with Georgia Tech and a couple of others...... knowing we may not land Shaq Carter and Myles is convinced that RU is the place for him, our engineering program etc...he's 40 pounds heavier than he should be, but we like his upside.

So Doucoure is a year early, Myles then redshirts because Shaq Doorson is available to play, we have Sa as a 3rd big....and in a pinch, we can go smaller with Freeman and Eugene, so we have the luxury of redshirting Myles Johnson.

From January of 2018 to today, Doorson has gotten into much better shape and worked very hard, Doucoure is still around competing for minutes and Myles Johnson buys into working through his redshirt season, lifts, runs and is transformed into a likely starter next year. Shaq Carter arrives and has to compete against 3 kids already a full year into the system and acclimated to what has to happen.

Right now, Doorson is providing what I expected Carter to provide and Myles Johnson is wildly talented, but very raw....but passes the ball and is likely a year away from being very nice as a complimentary big man. Doucoure is suddenly passed by because of Johnson's progress and Doorson sheds another 20 pounds and can suddenly move around a little bit. Carter goes from a likely focal point 12 to 14 months ago when he was recruited and committed to a person having to fight for time.

I don't see any path for Carter playing a lot, as long as Doorson is healthy and rebounding well and Doucoure is around to provide some threat of offense ....and Myles should play 8 to 12 minutes a night. But the biggest item to note was how uncertain things looked at the time we started pursuing Carter and how happy I am we landed Carter. He is a needed item for this year and next year. On the flip side, I really was happy we snuck in and landed Myles Johnson and that Shaq Doorson is finally able to contribute while healthy. I'm not necessarily concerned with who plays as much as how the team plays in general.

The McConnell item is separate, but I think warrants more time before jumping the gun on a thought there, before we exit November of his freshman season. We already have people believing they have the entire freshman class figured out, when we've played 3 weeks of live basketball and 6 games. Probably not a good idea to jump that far ahead.
Good review of history and fair points. Is Carter eligible for a red shirt?
 
I agree with Scangg, regarding the obsession with Carter. Shaquille Doorson has given us what we need this year and Coach comments all the time about weight he dropped, allowing him to be more agile and now fully healthy, which is just a little surprising to the staff and the rest of us. Myles will certainly be our center next year and his weight loss has helped him compete immediately. Duke to me looks to have put on too much weight and does not look fluid and looks slower this year which puts him third in the center spot . I am sure that there will be games when both Shaquille and Duke will be in foul trouble and we will see Carter helping fill in minutes with Myles. By hat point in the season Carter should be up to snuff on Jay Young’s defensive teachings and hopefully his athleticism lets him score a little around the hoop.
Regarding next year , I would hope Coach uses the last scholarship on a 6’8-6’9 power forward - center that can score to increase the depth up front . We are set up at guard with Geo,Mulcahy, Young , and Caleb, and we are set up at the 2-3 and 4 with Kiss, Mathis, Issa, Harper, and Eugene with Geo sliding over to play the 2 guard.
Good point about Carter still adjusting and learning the system. The other bigs have all been here at least a year. Maybe it starts clicking with him and we get
There have been exactly two threads since the start of the season that focused on Carter (this being one of them). Most of his other mentions were in game threads, box score lists, or post game mentions.

He was hyped in the preseason and has played 11 minutes so far - if you don't understand why people are wondering if/when he'll see the court, and for how much time, then I don't know what to tell you. By contrast, Mensah and Bullock got *far* more attention last year than Carter has gotten this year, so I don't think there's in any way an out of the ordinary number mentions for a down-roster scholarship player.

It's not a matter of which big man got squeezed out of the rotation, really. We're undoubtedly going to get into foul trouble with our bigs at some point this season, and Doucoure/Carter will be pressed into action. Doucoure has seen plenty of Divi-I game reps at this point, but Carter hasn't - one would think he'd get some burn against lesser opponents in blowouts just to help get him up to speed, but he hasn't - which has some scratching their heads as to why. If he built up 100 min or so in the OOC, I think there'd be more comfort level with him coming in for 10+ min in the second half of a game against a B1G opponent if Doorson/Johnson/Omoruyi each picked up 3+ fouls.

On the flip side, though, it's important that Johnson and Harper to see a lot of reps at the 5/4, too. If anything, his minutes would probably come at the expense of Omoruyi/Doorson at the end of blowout games, just to keep them fresh and reduce wear/tear on their bodies. Then again, it may well be that Pike has enough faith in his and Doucoure's abilities to step up in foul trouble situations that he doesn't feel as concerned about getting them live reps at this point.
Lol so only threads count? Great argument there.

We aren't going to play a lot of 2 big lineups this year so the 4th big man getting minutes is so far down on the list of concerns for this team. With all the new pieces to the team and youth this year Pike played the players who he are going to be in his regular rotation more minutes to build chemistry and gain experience for the players who are actually going to play a big role this season over getting Carter a few extra minutes which is much less valuable. Pike knows what he is doing. His strategy makes sense to me. I like it
 
You may have missed the threads where people stated that Shaq shouldn't return to free up a scholarship and that Caleb is a transfer candidate next year after all of six games in his true freshman season.
Caleb hasn't really shown much but he seems like a good kid who's very tentative still. Hope he sticks it out and develops.
 
Good point about Carter still adjusting and learning the system. The other bigs have all been here at least a year. Maybe it starts clicking with him and we get

Lol so only threads count? Great argument there.

We aren't going to play a lot of 2 big lineups this year so the 4th big man getting minutes is so far down on the list of concerns for this team. With all the new pieces to the team and youth this year Pike played the players who he are going to be in his regular rotation more minutes to build chemistry and gain experience for the players who are actually going to play a big role this season over getting Carter a few extra minutes which is much less valuable. Pike knows what he is doing. His strategy makes sense to me. I like it

You can use the search feature as well as I can - there are just not a ton of posts out there calling for Carter to get more minutes. Outside the two threads (which have the usual thread drift to talk about other topics), I see no such "obsession" as you call it - that's just hyperbolic. There's interest, sure - but there are probably fewer posts about Carter this year than any other active scholarship player, which makes sense given he's played the fewest minutes.

I agree that Pike knows what he's doing - he uses players when he needs to, and looks like he manages minutes wisely. We know last year that he held out Bullock until it was absolutely necessary, and we saw why once he had to play a lot of minutes. Hopefully Carter can bring more than Bullock did when he's pressed into action later this year.
 
McConnell played a great first half. Second half, well needs some work. But damn he was great.

Carter was fine 1st half as well. Even had a nasty rebound where he stole the ball out of MSU player's hands. He played nicely.

RU needs this during the B10 portion of the season in order to surprise some teams.
 
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Back to the the original topic of this thread - thought McConnell did a great job as backup PG, and I think we're in good hands there, especially as he develops throughout the year.

Carter also didn't look in any way out of place on the floor in his very limited minutes, which was good to see. Doucoure actually looked like he was struggling to gel with the rest of the team more than Carter was.

I was really impressed with how well the reserves/freshmen performed at the end of the first half in our first real bout of fist half foul trouble.
 
Does anyone have any insight into why Shaq Carter doesn’t play more? From the few minutes he played against MSU he looked pretty good to me. Definitely passed the eye test. Hope we get to see what else he can give us, and soon.
 
Does anyone have any insight into why Shaq Carter doesn’t play more? From the few minutes he played against MSU he looked pretty good to me. Definitely passed the eye test. Hope we get to see what else he can give us, and soon.

Simple answer is that the guys who are getting the minutes are better. He'll see time situationally, and when we need to go deeper into our depth in the post.

From the MSU game, it didn't look like he was out of place. Just needs to earn more minutes against tough competition.
 
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Do you think the McClung decommit/Carter commit went hand-in-hand? We would not have had the opening if McClung hadn’t changed his mind (seemingly abruptly), and the timing seems kind of odd.

I was thrilled to have Carter instead of McClung at the time. Now, in retrospect...not so much.
We took Carter because we didn't get a 6'10" kid we wanted more from CA.
 
When are people going to learn that in the Pike era, we need to stop judging people on small sample sizes? It’s been proven that just because a player isn’t yet ready to shoulder a certain load, it doesn’t mean he won’t be ready to in a month or next season.

Guys need to earn minutes when they get opportunities. They have less opportunity when the proven players are healthy and playing well. It doesn’t mean Shaq C or Caleb are terrible or incapable of getting better
 
When are people going to learn that in the Pike era, we need to stop judging people on small sample sizes? It’s been proven that just because a player isn’t yet ready to shoulder a certain load, it doesn’t mean he won’t be ready to in a month or next season.

Guys need to earn minutes when they get opportunities. They have less opportunity when the proven players are healthy and playing well. It doesn’t mean Shaq C or Caleb are terrible or incapable of getting better

7 points in the first half for Carter. Hmmmm
 
This thread is hilarious at this point. Both kids mentioned playing confidently and well.
 
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This thread is awesome :popcorn:

For all of those fans that jumped the gun on Caleb and Carter, they are R Hoops fans who aren’t used to the recruiting and player development that Pike and his staff are capable of. All of these new players are figuring it out on the court, in the classroom. We need to be patient with each of these kids and enjoy the process of them figuring it out and developing their role on this team. And while they are doing that, we all want to win games!

Can’t wait for the first huge upset when our guys get it all together!
 
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Carter was great last night. I think he will get more minutes moving forward. This will make Doorson and Thompson to step up their games.
 
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