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the Beginning of the End

Sorry but where do I equate the teams? In my post I say they should evaluated mutually exclusively. So I hope you are not the RU grad or perhaps reading comprehension isn't a strong point for you.

don't bother. Using the disaster of the men's team to support the under performance of the women's team has been SOP for a few years now.

what folks don't realize is that the disappointment is more about the respect for what the program has been and what it could be than to trash it.
 
don't bother. Using the disaster of the men's team to support the under performance of the women's team has been SOP for a few years now.

what folks don't realize is that the disappointment is more about the respect for what the program has been and what it could be than to trash it.
Rutgers fans expect the RU WBB program to be among the best and anything less is unacceptable.
But when a program has been the one that has had the highest expectations from all RU fans ( not necessarily just RU WBB supporters) it might be easy to expect WBB fans to use other programs to explain how the WBB team stands the RU Athletic pecking order based on performance and not
just how they are doing in just the College WBB world.
Especially when some of those ( rightfully or not) complaining about the WBB team and HC are suspected of not really being RU WBB fans, but fans of another RU program visiting this board to complain because their true love is frustrating them.

That said: the way the WBB program stopped being one of the best is frustrating to all of the WBB team's supporters, but they also appreciate what CVS has accomplished over the years and get tired of seeing her treated like a disposable object like some seen to do in their Stringer must go, the game passed Vivian by and other knocks to support their claim that Rutgers would be better off without C,Vivian Stringer as RU's WBB HC.

I don't feel the game has passed CVS by, but the other schools have caught up to RU and in some cases passed RU by because of the way WBB has been financially supported over the
years has caused the players that would work best in Vivian's system to go elsewhere , but her name allows RU to still get good ones, but not really great fits and RU's overall game suffers because of that.
This year new assistants might have made a difference and not in a good way as everyone, including Stringer, need to adjust to each other.
 
criticism is because we are paying $700K to our head coach which means we expect results that would equal that..meaning NCAA tourney is every year, expecting to compete for Big 10 championships not 8th place and sweet 16 most years. That hasn't happened in the past 7-8 years. We could pay 400K for those results, that's what people are having the issue with....and the product is not easy to watch with a painful offense despite having 3 players that are going to the WNBA
 
criticism is because we are paying $700K to our head coach which means we expect results that would equal that..meaning NCAA tourney is every year, expecting to compete for Big 10 championships not 8th place and sweet 16 most years. That hasn't happened in the past 7-8 years. We could pay 400K for those results, that's what people are having the issue with....and the product is not easy to watch with a painful offense despite having 3 players that are going to the WNBA
One of the most telling comments from Coach Stringer's interview in the Home News Tribune was the emphasis on holding the opponent to 20 points less than their average and at the same time never counted on scoring more points.The problem with that viewpoint is that the 3 pointer along with the shot clock has caused scoring to increase significantly and Rutgers hasn't adapted to the changes.
 
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criticism is because we are paying $700K to our head coach which means we expect results that would equal that..meaning NCAA tourney is every year, expecting to compete for Big 10 championships not 8th place and sweet 16 most years. That hasn't happened in the past 7-8 years. We could pay 400K for those results, that's what people are having the issue with....and the product is not easy to watch with a painful offense despite having 3 players that are going to the WNBA

Yes bac, make it sould like the WBB team is a disaster and claim an on the cheap HC could do the same.
Before it was Stringer making over a million a year was a problem, now even with the pay-cut she took you make it sound like our HOF HC that has been at Rutgers since the 1995-96 season and has close to 500 wins at RU with a little under 230 losses is not worth the money she's being paid.

The team might not be among the best anymore, but the disrespect being given Stringer is absolutely disgusting in my opinion.
But in this what have you done for me lately, I want it now world, that should be expected and those who feel different are obsolete.

Your right anti-Stringers: dump CVS,the next RU WBB HC will show Geno how it's done and cheaply.
 
this team simply shouldnt be this bad, thats on the coach
No matter what the coach is the one that should take the blame.
But the way the blame is given should be respectful, unless that coach deserves to be trashed because of a personal issue or issues.
 
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We looked awful in the first half. No swagger on this team at all. I think it's time for a new direction for this program. It is depressing to watch this.
 
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They never got "great" crowds, but much better than they apparently do now.

That said, as Benighted showed several years ago, attendance is not the primary driver of revenue that many seem to think. Also, in spite of what someone said in one of these posts, CViv's salary has nothing to do with the fact that WBB is in the red. WBB is in the red at virtually every school - even UConn and Tennessee at the best have "flirted" with breaking even - and they had high coaches salary. And of course less money spent for WBB ultimately equates to less money spent on the men's side for some sport.

I am very distressed by the on-going ranting "anti-Viv". The state of the program is obvious. Not a losing program, but not up to many folks expectations, really. Tearing up Vivian's coaching has been going on for years - heck, even when the results were good, folks complained. But - No one has given me a convincing argument that, if Hobbs retains Viv for another year (assuming she wants another year), that this is somehow a huge disaster for the program. The chance of a home run hire at double play hitter prices is pretty slim. I hope for the best - there are a lot of bright young coaches out there - but nothing will be "instant". CVS took over for a pretty good coach and had 2 losing seasons.
What has allowed CVS to have career numbers like she has was 2 main things. 1. She was one of the best defensive minds in all the college ranks for years. 2nd, she was a recruiting guru. Our defensive still causes problems, but is not nearly as stiffening as it was for years. I believe CVS's defensive philosophy has not evolved w the game. Players are more athletic. Her teams have not been top 10 consistently over the span of most of her career, but her recruiting classes have been. The gap between the 2 has been due to CVS's failure to develop the offensive skills of the unreal amount of McDonald AA's she has had over her career. Also the gap is due to her (since I began as a season ticket holdermucho years ago) being a below average game time coach. Every year there would be discussions about how many different starting lineups we had. Players always had to play worrying about being yanked after a mistake. Other players in the groove would prematurely be taken out. Always seems to call the needed Time Out a score or 2 by the other team, too late. I could go on, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. But now, even the recruiting is gone. That is why we go below .500 next year and the following year looks even worse.
 
The talent level in the WNBA is ridiculous. They have few teams, and small rosters, with players from all over the world many with years of pro level experience. I say it's less than 50 percent that even one player on this team makes a WNBA roster. More likely they can play overseas and make pretty good money. But yes, on paper this team should be at least top half in the BiG, based on their HS rankings. To lose this game on the road, in overtime, is very tough. I feel bad for them. And for Stringer, who has been to 3 final fours, I'm sure she actually feels bad for her players, who never will come close. Congrats to Purdue. They also had the NCAA on the line tonight, and they have a small chance now.
 
The talent level in the WNBA is ridiculous. They have few teams, and small rosters, with players from all over the world many with years of pro level experience. I say it's less than 50 percent that even one player on this team makes a WNBA roster. More likely they can play overseas and make pretty good money. But yes, on paper this team should be at least top half in the BiG, based on their HS rankings. To lose this game on the road, in overtime, is very tough. I feel bad for them. And for Stringer, who has been to 3 final fours, I'm sure she actually feels bad for her players, who never will come close. Congrats to Purdue. They also had the NCAA on the line tonight, and they have a small chance now.
Good post. I just want to ditto that I feel so bad for the players and feel bad for CVS and let her know that her Mom is very proud of her. I remembering seeing an early or pre season quote from Kaliah Copper saying that they expect to win it all.
 
Hypothetically speaking: a parent has two children. The daughter is more academically talented than the other. She gets straight As with an occasional B thrown in. The son has a learning disability. If he gets a C+, it's a victory for him. More often than not, though, he is scuffling by to get a D. This happens for several years. Then the daughter starts getting Bs and now is headed towards a C average. You express your concern that she is no longer performing up to the level you know she is capable of. She says, "Well, I'm still doing better than my stupid brother!" How do you respond?

Each of our teams needs to be judged on its own. Football was falling off, so a change was made. Jordan inherited a mess and injuries have crippled any efforts this year, but he's not getting the job done and a change looks inevitable - although the number of injuries (down to six scholarship players the other night!) may buy him one more season. Right now the wrestling and women's soccer teams are the strongest programs on the banks.

Stringer had an awesome career but the results the last few years are disappointing relative to the standard she set for herself and obviously she is nearing the end of her coaching career. I hope she and Hobbs come to a mutual agreement on when that should be, whether it's now or in two years or whenever.
 
What has allowed CVS to have career numbers like she has was 2 main things. 1. She was one of the best defensive minds in all the college ranks for years. 2nd, she was a recruiting guru. Our defensive still causes problems, but is not nearly as stiffening as it was for years. I believe CVS's defensive philosophy has not evolved w the game. Players are more athletic. Her teams have not been top 10 consistently over the span of most of her career, but her recruiting classes have been. The gap between the 2 has been due to CVS's failure to develop the offensive skills of the unreal amount of McDonald AA's she has had over her career. Also the gap is due to her (since I began as a season ticket holdermucho years ago) being a below average game time coach. Every year there would be discussions about how many different starting lineups we had. Players always had to play worrying about being yanked after a mistake. Other players in the groove would prematurely be taken out. Always seems to call the needed Time Out a score or 2 by the other team, too late. I could go on, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. But now, even the recruiting is gone. That is why we go below .500 next year and the following year looks even worse.
Yes on 1 and 2. Yes on poorer defense now. I believe the reason is that the current players (while talented) are not on the par of some of her past stars. She has not been in the top 10 most of her career, I have always openly questioned RU fans that accused the team of being elite. CVS has always historically been a coach that wins about twice as many as she loses, could pull the unexpected upset, and always had a shot to go deep in the conference or NCAA tourneys. But top 10, no. Yes, probably due to her style. But it is / was her style and what got her the wins it got her! I agree her strength was never "in game" coaching, but in motivation and developing the game plan.

And have discussed in several other posts why recruiting isn't there.

The difference between myself and the many folks I generally don't agree with is:
- I like and respect CVS and while the program is now in decline I never saw a reason to complain in past successful years that her shortcomings prevented us from being "more successful" - we always had a shot
- I have no urgency to ending her career. If I didn't think there was recognition that she is in the final years of her career (and being paid less than previously because of the decline) I might feel differently. But I believe she has earned the right to go out on her terms. In some ways, I sort of hope she does retire, because I do think next year will be very poor. But, that said, making a change - and most likely a bargain hire - is highly likely to mark the slow descent of the RU program into not even having the relevance of having a HOF coach.
 
No matter what the coach is the one that should take the blame.
But the way the blame is given should be respectful, unless that coach deserves to be trashed because of a personal issue or issues.
I didn't trash anyone. I didn't disrespect anyone...I'm tired of the ridiculous notion that cvs is beyond reproach
 
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MADHAT1 said:
No matter what the coach is the one that should take the blame.
But the way the blame is given should be respectful, unless that coach deserves to be trashed because of a personal issue or issues.
I didn't trash anyone. I didn't disrespect anyone...I'm tired of the ridiculous notion that cvs is beyond reproach
Read what I said, and don't get paranoid over it. I didn't say don't criticize Stringer .
You're reading more into what I said than there is and I didn't word my reply in a way that you couldn't take my reply the wrong way and putting your quote on top of my message didn't help .
Didn't mean you were trashing CVS in my reply, sorry you took it that way.
 
When CVS retires in 2 years Chris Dailey will be waiting in the wings, This will make the Coyle sisters all giddy.
 
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I like CVS. I think she is teaching these ladies. Recruiting is going to be better. If she retires, let her do it on her own terms. I think she's earned it.
 
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When CVS retires in 2 years Chris Dailey will be waiting in the wings, This will make the Coyle sisters all giddy.

I don't think Dailey wants to be a head coach any more - she certainly could have had her pick of jobs. More important, though, she's my age (literally - we pretty much overlapped completely at RU), and I think we'd want someone younger.
 
I like CVS. I think she is teaching these ladies. Recruiting is going to be better. If she retires, let her do it on her own terms. I think she's earned it.

What makes you think recruiting is "going to be better" when it's getting worse, she's not getting any younger, and the program is slowly sliding down the ladder?

Time to retire, no doubt, IMHO.
 
The expectations fans have for the RU WBB program are because of it's past sucess.
Greatness was expected , under CVS, every year and it's hard to accept Stringer
can't overcome the lack of support the RU WBB receives from the University anymore.

Is it time for a change, only if Vivian's replacement can overcome the same obstacles that helped turn a great program into a pretty good one .
 
I'm holding off on my thoughts about CVS until the season is over, but I think an important point that's not being discussed much in this thread is that an important factor in recruiting is facilities, and RU's facilities really need work. I'm very glad that the facilities project has been announced, but even in the best case scenario we're a couple of years (probably more) from having those facilities in place, and recruiting is going to be affected until that happens regardless of the coach. You could bring in the reincarnation of John Wooden and the facilities would still be the problem.
 
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With respect to "when has WBB ever drawn great crowds", the answer is "quite often back in the day" (Sutton Brown, Pointer era, for example), especially when ranked teams visited the RAC. The crowds were loud and vocal, there were plenty of rows of season ticket holders in the 200 section, and maybe most importantly the team was drawing in the casual fan to many games.

What I wouldn't give to have that again for just one game. It's sad to see what has happened to the fan base.
 
What makes you think recruiting is "going to be better" when it's getting worse, she's not getting any younger, and the program is slowly sliding down the ladder?

Time to retire, no doubt, IMHO.
Like I said if she retires let her do it on her own terms. Who do you think will do better that we can get and afford?
 
I'm holding off on my thoughts about CVS until the season is over, but I think an important point that's not being discussed much in this thread is that an important factor in recruiting is facilities, and RU's facilities really need work. I'm very glad that the facilities project has been announced, but even in the best case scenario we're a couple of years (probably more) from having those facilities in place, and recruiting is going to be affected until that happens regardless of the coach. You could bring in the reincarnation of John Wooden and the facilities would still be the problem.
Exactly... and this is one of the reasons that I think it will be very tricky to hire her replacement, especially if we're planning to do this on the cheap.
 
Watched enough tonight. How can a 5 ft 4 in guard knock down 7 3 three pointers. Need a coach that can bring in some shooters.
 
I don't think Dailey wants to be a head coach any more - she certainly could have had her pick of jobs. More important, though, she's my age (literally - we pretty much overlapped completely at RU), and I think we'd want someone younger.


its definitely worth a try.
 
BeKnighted said:
I'm holding off on my thoughts about CVS until the season is over, but I think an important point that's not being discussed much in this thread is that an important factor in recruiting is facilities, and RU's facilities really need work. I'm very glad that the facilities project has been announced, but even in the best case scenario we're a couple of years (probably more) from having those facilities in place, and recruiting is going to be affected until that happens regardless of the coach. You could bring in the reincarnation of John Wooden and the facilities would still be the problem.
Exactly... and this is one of the reasons that I think it will be very tricky to hire her replacement, especially if we're planning to do this on the cheap.
Some disagree, they think the facilities don't mean a thing and the RU WBB program will be just like UConn is, with a new HC and even though CVS took a pretty big pay cut , she's overpaid and act like RU could hire a quality replacement for half the price Vivian is receiving now.
 
BeKnighted said:
I'm holding off on my thoughts about CVS until the season is over, but I think an important point that's not being discussed much in this thread is that an important factor in recruiting is facilities, and RU's facilities really need work. I'm very glad that the facilities project has been announced, but even in the best case scenario we're a couple of years (probably more) from having those facilities in place, and recruiting is going to be affected until that happens regardless of the coach. You could bring in the reincarnation of John Wooden and the facilities would still be the problem.

Some disagree, they think the facilities don't mean a thing and the RU WBB program will be just like UConn is, with a new HC and even though CVS took a pretty big pay cut , she's overpaid and act like RU could hire a quality replacement for half the price Vivian is receiving now.
Totally agree. I give Julie credit for one thing in her time as AD. Making CVS's contract more incentive oriented. But the base pay was still way too high for the product.
 
Watched enough tonight. How can a 5 ft 4 in guard knock down 7 3 three pointers. Need a coach that can bring in some shooters.
RU outscored Nebraska 34-10 in the paint, you don't need to shoot 3's when you can dominate the paint & the offensive boards.
 
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Does Hernandez come back next year?
 
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