The Out of Bounds Play (long)

[colbert17]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

 

[ru8081]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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Good post. This cost us the game in my opinion. Yes, go long. What is the worst that would happen, intercepted, out of bounds. At least you have time to set up. Not sure if Paul could have bounced it off a ND players leg. Don't remember if we had a time out left.

 

[colbert17]

Don't remember if we had a time out left

Great point!!!! I didn't consider that in my analysis. The answer is yes since we called TO after we brought the ball up.
Paul could have called timeout.

 

[Plum Street]

paul certainly had an up and down game . He hit the big 3 , but got beat right after that and ND tied

 

[Yeah Baby]

Good post. This cost us the game in my opinion. Yes, go long. What is the worst that would happen, intercepted, out of bounds. At least you have time to set up. Not sure if Paul could have bounced it off a ND players leg. Don't remember if we had a time out left.

I know it’s your opinion so I cannot tell you that you’re wrong but there is no way we can say you are right. If we inbound and they foul we have no idea what the outcome is after that point. What cost is the game is we had 5 guys under the basket and ND had 1 guy and the ball went to him for the put back. Any other direction. Off the rim or backboard and we are in 3 OT.

Also regarding the inbound it looked like Geo got taken out of the play with an obvious foul. I don’t care to watch the replay because it’s over but that’s what I saw live. We tied it up after that so again, I can’t say that missed call cost us the game. I can’t say the bad charge call on Ron or the bad call on Caleb cost us the game either because we don’t take and make those long 3’s that we made if we are up by 1 or more points. They made one more bucket than we did and that cost us the game.

 

[wheezer]

This play was why we lost imo

Yes, some can say we lost for other things,
but this is a routine situation in an end game, and all we had to do was get it in and get fouled
We screwed it up against PU and should have learned from that

 

[bitnez]

Good post. This cost us the game in my opinion. Yes, go long. What is the worst that would happen, intercepted, out of bounds. At least you have time to set up. Not sure if Paul could have bounced it off a ND players leg. Don't remember if we had a time out left.

The ball going out of bounds is a problem because assuming no one touched it ND gets to take it out from the same spot where Paul was standing. This is why a lot of teams don’t like to throw long. In retrospect I appreciate that defending an out of bounds under ND’s basket is better alternative than giving up a lay up in the flow of the play, but no coach thinks that way.

The fact is that Pike over thought it. Run a simple cross screen game and have Geo cut hard to the ball.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Pass to Ron was late. If Paul throws it a split second earlier, we're playing tonight.

*Edit - Just watched it again. To be fair, Ron cuts a split second too early.

Paul late. Ron early. Such a fine line of fractions of a second.

 

[rubaseball78]

Paul could have called time out. I believe we still had one left.

And you are right, Paul played scared the entire game, you could see it in his facial expressions.

 

[colbert17]

cut hard to the ball.

As a team this is something that we don't do well. Frankly I'm surprised that Pike doesn't recognize this.

 

[newell138]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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Right or wrong I appreciate anyone taking the effort to dissect it the way you did, well done. I actually read the whole post too, unlike some other long winded posts I see on here.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

As a team this is something that we don't do well. Frankly I'm surprised that Pike doesn't recognize this.

Your points are all well thought out and correct, imho. Harper spectates fairly often. I speculate that this is because when he gets the ball and goes 1 on 2 or 3 he puts so much effort into it that it wears his big body down.

Looking back, we really do not have a player who can be 100% counted on (this is about choices, not failing in athleticism or getting beat fairly).. maybe Caleb on D (or playing O in Dayton).. maybe Rieber. But everyone else makes mistakes.. Harper spectates, Geo has a loose dribble, Paul makes odd decisions for a smart player and gets taken by penetrators too often, Caleb shot too often, Cliff gets lost under the basket when he should be working into a better rebounding position, Hyatt gets "shooterish".. decides it is his turn to shoot no matter what..

The thing is.. when things all click.. they played some beautiful basketball. And before Pike, we had not seen that on the banks for some time.

 

[RedChucken123]

That video was tough to watch. But some observations:

1) That Hyatt cut didn’t do anything, but I guess keep one guy long
2) Caleb could have gotten the pass easily, though yes, he would’ve been In the corner. Should have cut back up the sideline as you said.
3) Could have tried the pass to Geo. Though risky passing under the basket.
4) Ron was still the most viable option with that play of questionable options. Paul still botched the pass. Probably panicked from getting the ball in fast enough and getting it in over the defender. For a player that would rather give the assist then take a shot, that pass is going to haunt him. He plays with too much anxiety. Whether it’s Indiana, Penn State, or this game, for a point guard that’s always telling everyone to calm down, he might be the most wired person on the floor.

Other observation from the video on last play of the game for ND…Cliff got stuck under the basket when he needed to box out the person that made the winning basket. Either that or fully commit to making the block on the person driving. Couldn’t expect anyone else to box out realistically. Caleb and Ron helped each other on the driver and Geo and Paul had their own guys to watch out for. Cliff needs to work on rebound positioning. He ought to have more rebounds than he does. As big as his hands are, also needs to strengthen them or something. He also has butter fingers sometimes.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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I wasn’t thrilled with the play design but it appeared to be lethargically executed with lazy cuts. I am not sure if Harper was supposed to screen or not. That play was very costly and we obviously need to do better. Game wasn’t over by any stretch but we need to get the ball inbounds there.

 

[RedChucken123]

I wasn’t thrilled with the play design but it appeared to be lethargically executed with lazy cuts. I am not sure if Harper was supposed to screen or not. That play was very costly and we obviously need to do better. Game wasn’t over by any stretch but we need to get the ball inbounds there.

My biggest criticism of Ron is that his motor could use work. He’s always sucking air and gassed. He needs to work on his cardio, whether for a return to Rutgers or his professional career.

 

[RuWishBone]

We won and lost this game at 3 times. Just got the short end of the stick.this was game either team should have won or lost

 

[goru7]

You make an excellent post . My issue is that I do not like the design with my guards so far away. Run a simple double screen to get it to 1 of our guards . I would ditch the play. Second issue , is our failure to make hard bounce passes. Paul could have thrown a hard bounce pass to Geo , Caleb and then to Ron . Let him watch some Villannova tape. Everyone of their player throws a hard bounce pass , all over the court and when they have to inbound the ball. Really a weakness and some some good bounce passes during the wins over the ranked teams , the lazy pass with deflections happened more often than it needed to happen. This should not be happening to our veteran team nor to our point guard. Really easier to correct than it appears.

Just a disappointing play but Paul came back to hit the 3 to put us up 2 with 8.7 seconds and we allowed another layup for the tie. That is the damning point with our unrecognizable defense that we have not played for the prior 31 games. Why Caleb did not foul and make him tie it at the line , I do not know , except that maybe he had 4 fouls. Really ridiculously bad defense especially in the paint , which hadn’t happened all year. Still cannot believe it. Notre Dame would never be able to duplicate that game again.

 

[jerseybird]

Attention to detail: Paul can move back to the pom poms as long as he remains at the spot of the throw-in and this would give him a better angle on his defender. He would have a slightly better view around the defender. As long as he keeps one foot in the confines of the spot, he can step to the side with the other foot. Moving back in the spot and stepping to a side gives him a good position to release a bounce pass. It looks to me as if Paul is waiting for the perfectly wide open teammate which you will not get in these type of situations. You will most likely have to hit your guy in his outstretched hand with a good bounce pass.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

In-bounds play cost us......

but, can someone explain to me why BOTH Pike and Paul calling timeout after the last ND basket in 2OT (w/ 0:02 left) was totally ignored AND not reviewed???

 

[RU MAN]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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Colbert great post! I couldn't agree more.

 

[colbert17]

You make an excellent post . My issue is that I do not like the design with my guards so far away. Run a simple double screen to get it to 1 of our guards . I would ditch the play. Second issue , is our failure to make hard bounce passes. Paul could have thrown a hard bounce pass to Geo , Caleb and then to Ron . Let him watch some Villannova tape. Everyone of their player throws a hard bounce pass , all over the court and when they have to inbound the ball. Really a weakness and some some good bounce passes during the wins over the ranked teams , the lazy pass with deflections happened more often than it needed to happen. This should not be happening to our veteran team nor to our point guard. Really easier to correct than it appears.

Just a disappointing play but Paul came back to hit the 3 to put us up 2 with 8.7 seconds and we allowed another layup for the tie. That is the damning point with our unrecognizable defense that we have not played for the prior 31 games. Why Caleb did not foul and make him tie it at the line , I do not know , except that maybe he had 4 fouls. Really ridiculously bad defense especially in the paint , which hadn’t happened all year. Still cannot believe it. Notre Dame would never be able to duplicate that game again.

Excellent point on the use of the bounce pass. Fake up and then pass

 

[Kwonster]

In-bounds play cost us......

but, can someone explain to me why BOTH Pike and Paul calling timeout after the last ND basket in 2OT (w/ 0:02 left) was totally ignored AND not reviewed???

I’m also wondering this after rewatching the last few minutes. Paul clearly called TO!

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

I’m also wondering this after rewatching the last few minutes. Paul clearly called TO!

 

[jerseybird]

Draw a line between the two officials. One of those three RU players would have to be calling the timeout. That is the field of vision for the refs on a last second shot. They have to look for an offensive or defensive foul. They have to see if a shot, if taken, is before or after time expires. A foul on the shooter in the backcourt would result in three foul shots on a missed shot or one foul shot if the goal is made. If you really want a timeout, the player throwing the ball in or the player catching the ball needs to request it.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

b

Draw a line between the two officials. One of those three RU players would have to be calling the timeout. That is the field of vision for the refs on a last second shot. They have to look for an offensive or defensive foul. They have to see if a shot, if taken, is before or after time expires. A foul on the shooter in the backcourt would result in three foul shots on a missed shot or one foul shot if the goal is made. If you really want a timeout, the player throwing the ball in or the player catching the ball needs to request it.

sorry.baloney.
both paul AND PIKE were calling for a timeout and there are 3 (not 2) officials....
what exactly is official #3 doing, looking for a restricted arc foul?.... of course someone saw it...

till the day i die......

 

[jerseybird]

b

sorry.baloney.
both paul AND PIKE were calling for a timeout and there are 3 (not 2) officials....
what exactly is official #3 doing, looking for a restricted arc foul?.... of course someone saw it...

till the day i die......

You are not automatically entitled to a timeout. The refs need to recognize the request for one. Want a timeout, don't get sloppy.

 

[colbert17]

You are not automatically entitled to a timeout. The refs need to recognize the request for one. Want a timeout, don't get sloppy.

The players should know that if the ball goes in they need to call an immediate timeout. Caleb should have never inbounded the ball. That's got to be something that's taught. You can only pull a Purdue so often.

 

[RU84]

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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Agree 100%. For

Let me preface this by saying that Pike is easily the best coach we've had since Tom Young and overall he's done things here that many of us didn't think were possible. I hope that he stays here for many, many years. But I wanted to take a close look at what we were trying to do on this play and what went wrong. As background I'm not a college coach but I did coach high school ball for nearly two decades and about half of that as a head coach at a Group IV school.
I watched this play frame by frame (this is my Zapruder film) to see what we did, what we didn't do and what we could have done. The play starts at 2:48 of the video.

1. Paul taking the inbound pass. Paul has done this all year and except for the past few weeks he's done a good job. However except for a few flashes Paul looked indecisive and weak throughout the game. He reminded me of the JV kid who gets called up to the varsity due to injuries and has to play in the state tournament. I see why Pike continued with him but considering his performance recently I wonder if Caleb might have been a better choice.
2. The formation. I can honestly say that I can't recall ever seeing a full court press escape formation set up with no one anywhere near the ball. As the play unfolded I recognized what they were trying to do.
3. Option #1 - Hyatt. A fake towards the ball and go long. I can understand this as you always want someone to go long on a man press escape. But...the fake was extremely weak (just a little shake and bake). He needed to go hard to the the basket and force #3 to play him and then go long. With one ND player guarding long that would have left 4 RU players and only 3 ND defenders to play the inbound pass. You need to make the defenders make decisions. With the very weak fake #3 never had to make the decision to play Hyatt or Caleb.
4. Option #2 - Geo. This was where the pass was supposed to go. What I didn't like was that there just was a little criss cross. There were no screens. When you screen you force the defenders to make decisions. Defensively that is where things break down. The defender did a nice job of bumping Geo off the play but I think if Paul was more decisive and led him properly the pass may have been completed.
5. Caleb - This is where things started to break down. He came all the way down to the baseline, deep in the corner and basically took himself out of the play. The option should have been him running down to the baseline , jam and head up the sideline. Neither Hyatt nor the ND defender are even in the picture at the time.
6. RHJ - This is my biggest problem. RHJ has given us so many great memories but a few times during the year I've mentioned that at times he's lackadaisical with his cuts and he did it again here. He jogs towards the ball and then stops. Something my high school coach taught me and I always taught is that when you cut towards the ball you have to command the ball, not just cut. Again if he runs hard, and makes the defender play him, he like Caleb could have gone long and given Paul room to make the pass. Instead they created a pretty small window to make the play. As Paul makes the pass stop the tape and look at how much room both Geo and Caleb have on the sidelines. Everyone is now buried on the baseline and they just watch.
7. Ok Colbert. What if that last ND defender comes up to guard against the long pass? If one or all three players went long you again are forcing the defender to make a decision. Does he come up for the ball and leave Hyatt alone under the basket? Also worst case scenario he comes up and picks off the pass? Ok then ND has to run some offensive set to score instead of having the ball one on one 6 feet from the basket. (Note:that last man defender isn't even in the picture until AFTER the steal).

All in all I understand what the team was trying to do. What I didn't like was that it seems like all the guys had one option and weren't ready with alternatives. Each player should have had at least two options. Five seconds is a lot more time than you think and officials historically don't like to make time violation calls. Remember that the count stops when the ball leaves the passer's hands. I think that is still the rule. As a result you would have plenty of time to make that long pass.

This is my opinion and I know that there will be dissenting views about this. It just kills me that this is a NCAA game that we should have won and a key play in the loss is that we couldn't get the ball inbounds.

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Great post mortem of an inbounds play that was a disaster waiting to happen. I‘ve coached my kids travel basketball teams for the past 10 years where full court pressure defenses are the order of the day. If you don’t have an effective inbounds and press break it’s going to be a long day. The inbounds play at the end of this game, as well as the PSU game, would have been turnovers at the youth level, let alone D1 college hoops. Passing turnovers are always some combination of a bad decision by the passer and the inability of the other players to get open. As Colbert well detailed, this was a failure at both levels. Pike and co. are great but they’ve got to get back to the drawing board on their inbounds play and general end of game management. Probably cost us a W.