The rebounding issue- Going for Blocked Shots

[NewJerseyHawk]

MOST of the rebounding is coaching....I watch teams with similar size or talent and RU has a full roster (Not all) players who are chasing blocked shots.....what does that mean??

It means this pattern of chasing blocks, started a couple of years ago with Cliff Omoyuri AND has now been passed as a torch to others like Ogbole ...now it's spreading to everyone else on the roster.

Why did RU struggle with getting killed LAST year on the glass?? Cliff would try wild attempts against his man, and would wildly swing for a block.....and abandon rebounding position.....he did get almost 3 blocks, but it's losing basketball.

The PROPER way is to "WALL UP"....this is coaching at a level that is basic but better teams with discipline DONT allow players to "chase blocks"....wall up is standing and raising your arms straight up and not towards the shooter, to avoid fouling the shooter.

Watch games and you will see Ogbole flailing 8 to 10 geet away, trying to block a shot, that he isnt going to block.....which leaves the weakside or paint exposed.....IF the Staff demands discipline and just coaches basics, Ogbole stands his ground and just extendable his arms as high as passible....

As soon as the shot is released, turn from standing still and move towards the hoop OR find a player to box out and then grab the rebound.

There's at least 120 to 150 times on tape last year where Cliff started this incorrectly AND the ataff never corrected it....and others started following this bad habit.

BUT fans see Cliff rebounding and size and he averaged 8 REBS last year.....BUT he was at 9.6 the year before at RU.....with players like Caleb McConnell averaging 5.5, Mag averaging 5, Spencer 4, Hyatt 3 to 4 and Mulcahy 3 to 4.......Cliff wanted blocks or to lead the nation in blocked shots.....blocked shots do NOT win games, rebounds do.

A blocked shot in rrue hoops coaching is a selfish stat, unless it is stopping transition to prevent a layup or dunk. If you are in position between your man and the rim, it's up to YOU as the defender......Ace Bailey getting a weakside block vs a driving player that is NOT his man, is a GOOD block attempt.....he had FOUR blocks yesterday.

This is COACHING MALPRACTICE and easily fixed. But it takes ALL players to stop this fake hustle or attempts, which is not good defense.......players who have smarts and willingness to accept that the defense 1 on 1 is good enough.

OGBOLE averages 0.5 blocks per game.....you are not Cliff.....start rebounding first......THREE rebounds in 10 minutes.....NO blocks, NO Points......it is why he is ineffective as a player..........

Even with Cliff "Stat chasing" blocks last year, we got killed on the.glass with the same issue.....just because it's 20 or more offensive rebounds and only 10 to 15 last year, it's still LOSING basketball on COACHING.

Itz on tape.....BUT here are the numbers from other Indiana opponents that are NOT good.

46-39 Winthrop (14-12 Indiana)

37-29 Chatt (11-8 Indiana)

35-22 Minnesota (12-6 Imdiana)

37-22 SHouState 5-3 SHS on offensive rebounds

48-36 Rutgers (18 to 7 in offensive rebounds by Indiana).

MOST of our issues start and end with this correction.....SIX of the OREBS were from guards on Indiana....SEVEN by Ballo alone. If a guard gets an OREB, it's because its available to get, with the paint open. Well coached teams DO NOT allow players to chase stats with blocked ahots.

When everyone is trying to block shots, even guards, it is THE problem......watch the games and you will see our guards also reaching to try and block shots they will.never block OR possibly wind up fouling a shooter or almost doing so.

IF this simple correction is made, RU cuts down on the rebound deficit by at LEAST 6 to 8 rebounds a game and RU is 13-7 or better in the B1G this year, assuming there are no missed games by Ace, Dylan or Lathan Sommerville.

Keep allowing undisciplined shot block attempts and it's 7-13 in the B1G, same as last year.

 

[RUBlackout]

So in short. Coaching!

Seems to be the recurring problem with the team at the moment

 

[Unionst]

Dead on. This has been Killing us. Blocked shots are massively overrated because of the lost rebound risk.

 

[zappaa]

MOST of the rebounding is coaching....I watch teams with similar size or talent and RU has a full roster (Not all) players who are chasing blocked shots.....what does that mean??

It means this pattern of chasing blocks, started a couple of years ago with Cliff Omoyuri AND has now been passed as a torch to others like Ogbole ...now it's spreading to everyone else on the roster.

Why did RU struggle with getting killed LAST year on the glass?? Cliff would try wild attempts against his man, and would wildly swing for a block.....and abandon rebounding position.....he did get almost 3 blocks, but it's losing basketball.

The PROPER way is to "WALL UP"....this is coaching at a level that is basic but better teams with discipline DONT allow players to "chase blocks"....wall up is standing and raising your arms straight up and not towards the shooter, to avoid fouling the shooter.

Watch games and you will see Ogbole flailing 8 to 10 geet away, trying to block a shot, that he isnt going to block.....which leaves the weakside or paint exposed.....IF the Staff demands discipline and just coaches basics, Ogbole stands his ground and just extendable his arms as high as passible....

As soon as the shot is released, turn from standing still and move towards the hoop OR find a player to box out and then grab the rebound.

There's at least 120 to 150 times on tape last year where Cliff started this incorrectly AND the ataff never corrected it....and others started following this bad habit.

BUT fans see Cliff rebounding and size and he averaged 8 REBS last year.....BUT he was at 9.6 the year before at RU.....with players like Caleb McConnell averaging 5.5, Mag averaging 5, Spencer 4, Hyatt 3 to 4 and Mulcahy 3 to 4.......Cliff wanted blocks or to lead the nation in blocked shots.....blocked shots do NOT win games, rebounds do.

A blocked shot in rrue hoops coaching is a selfish stat, unless it is stopping transition to prevent a layup or dunk. If you are in position between your man and the rim, it's up to YOU as the defender......Ace Bailey getting a weakside block vs a driving player that is NOT his man, is a GOOD block attempt.....he had FOUR blocks yesterday.

This is COACHING MALPRACTICE and easily fixed. But it takes ALL players to stop this fake hustle or attempts, which is not good defense.......players who have smarts and willingness to accept that the defense 1 on 1 is good enough.

OGBOLE averages 0.5 blocks per game.....you are not Cliff.....start rebounding first......THREE rebounds in 10 minutes.....NO blocks, NO Points......it is why he is ineffective as a player..........

Even with Cliff "Stat chasing" blocks last year, we got killed on the.glass with the same issue.....just because it's 20 or more offensive rebounds and only 10 to 15 last year, it's still LOSING basketball on COACHING.

Itz on tape.....BUT here are the numbers from other Indiana opponents that are NOT good.

46-39 Winthrop (14-12 Indiana)

37-29 Chatt (11-8 Indiana)

35-22 Minnesota (12-6 Imdiana)

37-22 SHouState 5-3 SHS on offensive rebounds

48-36 Rutgers (18 to 7 in offensive rebounds by Indiana).

MOST of our issues start and end with this correction.....SIX of the OREBS were from guards on Indiana....SEVEN by Ballo alone. If a guard gets an OREB, it's because its available to get, with the paint open. Well coached teams DO NOT allow players to chase stats with blocked ahots.

When everyone is trying to block shots, even guards, it is THE problem......watch the games and you will see our guards also reaching to try and block shots they will.never block OR possibly wind up fouling a shooter or almost doing so.

IF this simple correction is made, RU cuts down on the rebound deficit by at LEAST 6 to 8 rebounds a game and RU is 13-7 or better in the B1G this year, assuming there are no missed games by Ace, Dylan or Lathan Sommerville.

Keep allowing undisciplined shot block attempts and it's 7-13 in the B1G, same as last year.

Hawk,
Any good basketball coach adept at teaching sound fundamentals is drilling your points at the junior high school level.

A great coach not only teaches, he makes sure his players learn, if you can’t perform the fundamentals routinely in practice you don’t play.

We have two freshman on the bench with true power forward height, lets hope those two who get no run are learning the basics of rebounding.

ANY good coach would not allow his point guard to play the position is if he’s on ice skates, driving into the teeth of the opposing team’s defense while falling down with regularity.

Playing Martini is coaching malpractice!

This is insane

 

[bethlehemfan]

inability and or lack of desire to stay in front of the man being guarded is by far the bigger issue. Pike has had good rebounding teams in the past. The issue is not because a guy playing 10-15 minutes is concerned with getting blocks.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

I agree you’ve identified the exact issue from last year (where primarily Cliff would take himself out of position)

I don’t see that being the primary rebounding issue this year. (Except for when Ace is trying to block everything - which he was in that mode last night).

I think it’s focus and effort from all 5 , every time.

The coaching staff identified this issue as life or death in the St. John’s game. They been coaching it and watching tape on it nearly every day since I’m sure. I think it’s just roster construction and the internal desire and focus of a few guys at a time while on the court which buries the whole team

 

[zappaa]

I think it’s focus and effort from all 5 , every time.

No disrespect intended 2008, but your statement is one of the most overused excuses in sports.

Elite sports are played on autopilot when everything is going well, it’s reactionary and flowing… Your fundamentals pour out of you subconsciously and naturally.

Focus and effort slow you up, thinking slows you up.

These kids are all trying even if it appears they aren’t at times….imo

Confused and not sure what you’re supposed to do is the root of looking like you lack effort

 

[Unionst]

inability and or lack of desire to stay in front of the man being guarded is by far the bigger issue. Pike has had good rebounding teams in the past. The issue is not because a guy playing 10-15 minutes is concerned with getting blocks.

It’s both.

 

[bethlehemfan]

It’s both.

The primary issue is by far what I described. Block attempts happen after someone gets beaten.

 

[Unionst]

The primary issue is by far what I described. Block attempts happen after someone gets beaten.

That’s fair. But the missed blocked shots when the defender comes from the weak side leaves the weak side offensive player completely unguarded and with an easy layup. For me it’s the worst kind of missed rebound.

 

[bethlehemfan]

That’s fair. But the missed blocked shots when the defender comes from the weak side leaves the weak side offensive player completely unguarded and with an easy layup. For me it’s the worst kind of missed rebound.

The defender has no choice at that point and rotation doesn’t come because the weakside player is not paying attention or we were beaten so badly off the cut or dribble there’s no time.

 

[Unionst]

The defender has no choice at that point and rotation doesn’t come because the weakside player is not paying attention or we were beaten so badly off the cut or dribble there’s no time.

Sometimes. Sometimes it’s the defender hunting - or unnecessarily- going after blocked shots.

 

[seansherm]

That's right focus on EO, the limited player who only tries to block shots of people at rim and call out his 3 rebounds in ten minutes that led the team in rebounds per minute. Hard to score if you don't touch the ball. No mention of Lathan and his 5 rebounds in 26 minutes (which by my math is much worse) or his turnover for every basket he scored?

@bethlehemfan is the correct one in this thread

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The issue is we have coaches ON STAFF, who fans claim needed to be brought back (like JAY YOUNG), who's entire career is based on fundamentals and defense.....

Where are the basics.....?? Why could I go watch Shaq Doorson, Candido Sa, Mike Williams, Deshawn Freeman execute these basics in MSG 6 to 7 years ago......??

Having coaches on staff means very little, if there's no indication of work being put in.

I left MSG 6 to 7 years ago 3 straight nights vs Richard Pitino Jr and Minnesota and one team had better players (Minnesota), but another team boxed out and played fundamentals on defense (RU)

The next night, I spent more money for tickets and watched another poorly coached Indiana team (Archie Miller I think) with vastly better players, also not box out and try to block shots by Corey Sanders and Geo Baker .....

It wasn't until we faced Purdue and Matt Painter with another very good team, who also hit shots but had enough discipline and basics to actuallybox RU out, to outlast the other disciplined and fundamentally sound led backcourt of Baker and Corey Sanders.....that was as entertaining of a game at MSG.

Same staff......(Pike, Knight, Young).....it is a coaching issue and it's essentially the same coaching staff. Young was credited then with big man coaching and rebounding....maybe, but today, his return to the staff, has resulted in NO impact or improvement on the court.

Is Mike Williams a better rebounding guard than Jordan Derkack?? Maybe.....let's call it even...both play tough, but Mike played fundamentals better than any RU guard in a decade or more.....

Is Shaq Doorson a better rebounding big man than Cliff Omoyuri?? The fact that I'm even asking the question is a concern......

Anyone else who wants to claim how critical it was to bring back Jay Young.....shouldn't the actual results be better??

I don't follow the herd of sheep who will try and sell you a storyline........the results and eye test tell me who's well coached and who's not.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Throw most of the players on this team a head fake and they are jumping to the moon, even in the perimeter.. defense 101 and we don’t even have that…from a defensive coach.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

That's right focus on EO, the limited player who only tries to block shots of people at rim and call out his 3 rebounds in ten minutes that led the team in rebounds per minute. Hard to score if you don't touch the ball. No mention of Lathan and his 5 rebounds in 26 minutes (which by my math is much worse) or his turnover for every basket he scored?

@bethlehemfan is the correct one in this thread

Lathan Sommerville at least scores....he had 8 & 5 & averages 8 & 5.

The problem with RU fans is a clear indication that they cannot be objective.

If someone scores 8 and gets 5 rebounds and another player scores 0 and has 3 rebounds......and ONE starts and the other one doesn't.....common sense would indicate that the player providing 8 & 5, is NOT the problem.

The player who starts each half and is not a scoring threat, can at LEAST be fundamentally sound and do basic basketball items, like box out and rebound. I dont even expect Ogbole to score.....I "should" expect him to be able to grab more than 3 boards in 15 minutes a night....

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

inability and or lack of desire to stay in front of the man being guarded is by far the bigger issue. Pike has had good rebounding teams in the past. The issue is not because a guy playing 10-15 minutes is concerned with getting blocks.

Its Ogbole specifically, because he has ONE goal.....REBOUNDING......the entire roster does not close out on shooters with their feet, they lunge and flail at shooters with a hand up......any pump fake, is a layup or clean looks, because they don't practice close outs with their feet or turning to locate the ball when the shot goes up.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Hawk,
Any good basketball coach adept at teaching sound fundamentals is drilling your points at the junior high school level.

A great coach not only teaches, he makes sure his players learn, if you can’t perform the fundamentals routinely in practice you don’t play.

We have two freshman on the bench with true power forward height, lets hope those two who get no run are learning the basics of rebounding.

ANY good coach would not allow his point guard to play the position is if he’s on ice skates, driving into the teeth of the opposing team’s defense while falling down with regularity.

Playing Martini is coaching malpractice!

This is insane

I've already said that it is NOT Martini or his fault.....he does not belong on the court as a forward and being asked to defend front line players from Sparty, Illinois Indiana, Michigan Maryland, UCLA etc......if he's consistently put into position to fail and shows NO indication or effort to try and improve, that is a COACHING issue.

You don't have to be 6'9 to rebound......I know it sounds like a cop out.....BUT Martini has lost confidence in his shooting and his game has cratered.....so what if you miss shots, go do something else on the court.

I am more disappointed that he hasn't fouled out of a game....he should be pushing his hips into players and driving them into the bench. I would give a standing ovation to him, if he actually delivered a blow or do something that indicates it mattered to him. The bar has been set so low at this point that I would play the 6'10 walk on from Michigan and Grant or Dortch and see who wants to compete.....

The whole point of this.....it's CORRECTABLE in TWO full practices.....48 hours of film and 3 hours or basics, corrects 80% of these issues.

 

[pmvon]

MOST of the rebounding is coaching....I watch teams with similar size or talent and RU has a full roster (Not all) players who are chasing blocked shots.....what does that mean??

It means this pattern of chasing blocks, started a couple of years ago with Cliff Omoyuri AND has now been passed as a torch to others like Ogbole ...now it's spreading to everyone else on the roster.

Why did RU struggle with getting killed LAST year on the glass?? Cliff would try wild attempts against his man, and would wildly swing for a block.....and abandon rebounding position.....he did get almost 3 blocks, but it's losing basketball.

The PROPER way is to "WALL UP"....this is coaching at a level that is basic but better teams with discipline DONT allow players to "chase blocks"....wall up is standing and raising your arms straight up and not towards the shooter, to avoid fouling the shooter.

Watch games and you will see Ogbole flailing 8 to 10 geet away, trying to block a shot, that he isnt going to block.....which leaves the weakside or paint exposed.....IF the Staff demands discipline and just coaches basics, Ogbole stands his ground and just extendable his arms as high as passible....

As soon as the shot is released, turn from standing still and move towards the hoop OR find a player to box out and then grab the rebound.

There's at least 120 to 150 times on tape last year where Cliff started this incorrectly AND the ataff never corrected it....and others started following this bad habit.

BUT fans see Cliff rebounding and size and he averaged 8 REBS last year.....BUT he was at 9.6 the year before at RU.....with players like Caleb McConnell averaging 5.5, Mag averaging 5, Spencer 4, Hyatt 3 to 4 and Mulcahy 3 to 4.......Cliff wanted blocks or to lead the nation in blocked shots.....blocked shots do NOT win games, rebounds do.

A blocked shot in rrue hoops coaching is a selfish stat, unless it is stopping transition to prevent a layup or dunk. If you are in position between your man and the rim, it's up to YOU as the defender......Ace Bailey getting a weakside block vs a driving player that is NOT his man, is a GOOD block attempt.....he had FOUR blocks yesterday.

This is COACHING MALPRACTICE and easily fixed. But it takes ALL players to stop this fake hustle or attempts, which is not good defense.......players who have smarts and willingness to accept that the defense 1 on 1 is good enough.

OGBOLE averages 0.5 blocks per game.....you are not Cliff.....start rebounding first......THREE rebounds in 10 minutes.....NO blocks, NO Points......it is why he is ineffective as a player..........

Even with Cliff "Stat chasing" blocks last year, we got killed on the.glass with the same issue.....just because it's 20 or more offensive rebounds and only 10 to 15 last year, it's still LOSING basketball on COACHING.

Itz on tape.....BUT here are the numbers from other Indiana opponents that are NOT good.

46-39 Winthrop (14-12 Indiana)

37-29 Chatt (11-8 Indiana)

35-22 Minnesota (12-6 Imdiana)

37-22 SHouState 5-3 SHS on offensive rebounds

48-36 Rutgers (18 to 7 in offensive rebounds by Indiana).

MOST of our issues start and end with this correction.....SIX of the OREBS were from guards on Indiana....SEVEN by Ballo alone. If a guard gets an OREB, it's because its available to get, with the paint open. Well coached teams DO NOT allow players to chase stats with blocked ahots.

When everyone is trying to block shots, even guards, it is THE problem......watch the games and you will see our guards also reaching to try and block shots they will.never block OR possibly wind up fouling a shooter or almost doing so.

IF this simple correction is made, RU cuts down on the rebound deficit by at LEAST 6 to 8 rebounds a game and RU is 13-7 or better in the B1G this year, assuming there are no missed games by Ace, Dylan or Lathan Sommerville.

Keep allowing undisciplined shot block attempts and it's 7-13 in the B1G, same as last year.

So do you think Pike isn’t coaching walling up and boxing out? Really?

How did Pike suddenly go from having one of the best defensive teams in the country to one of the worst? I’ll tell you. It’s the players who are partly too slow and mostly not executing simple 101 boxing out basketball. Is that partly on Pike for recruiting these guys yes but it’s also on them. I don’t get it. These guys have certainly underperformed expectations and prior playing numbers.

 

[RU205]

The defender has no choice at that point and rotation doesn’t come because the weakside player is not paying attention or we were beaten so badly off the cut or dribble there’s no time.

100%. Most of the players get beat by quicker guards going to the basket which forces the center to rotate over to stop the ball. That leaves the opposing center standing under the basket by himself.

Princeton did this all game. They did a weave up top until they had the quick guard 1:1 V Martini because RU switches and they don’t fight through screens. The guard would go around Martini forcing others to come off their man to stop the ball leaving other Princeton players open under the basket.

 

[littlenis5]

The issue is we have coaches ON STAFF, who fans claim needed to be brought back (like JAY YOUNG), who's entire career is based on fundamentals and defense.....

Where are the basics.....?? Why could I go watch Shaq Doorson, Candido Sa, Mike Williams, Deshawn Freeman execute these basics in MSG 6 to 7 years ago......??

Is Shaq Doorson a better rebounding big man than Cliff Omoyuri?? The fact that I'm even asking the question is a concern......

This is it. Those early pike teams lacked talent but they were always in the right places defensively and for rebounds. This years complete lack of awareness isn’t about inexperience - these are basics that the team is lacking and there’s no excuse.

The Ogbole experiment is a disaster and should come to an end - his BBall IQ is too low and at this point we’re better served giving Sommerville all he can handle to try to execute fundamentals more consistently. I’ve followed this team since around 1995 and think Ogbole is by far the worst center to play consistent minutes in that time span

 

[bethlehemfan]

100%. Most of the players get beat by quicker guards going to the basket which forces the center to rotate over to stop the ball. That leaves the opposing center standing under the basket by himself.

Princeton did this all game. They did a weave up top until they had the quick guard 1:1 V Martini because RU switches and they don’t fight through screens. The guard would go around Martini forcing others to come off their man to stop the ball leaving other Princeton players open under the basket.

Correct the problem starts with the inability to prevent penetration. It’s mostly roster construction imo. We lack quickness throughout the lineup and where we have quickness we’re very young.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

So do you think Pike isn’t coaching walling up and boxing out? Really?

How did Pike suddenly go from having one of the best defensive teams in the country to one of the worst? I’ll tell you. It’s the players who are partly too slow and mostly not executing simple 101 boxing out basketball. Is that partly on Pike for recruiting these guys yes but it’s also on them. I don’t get it. These guys have certainly underperformed expectations and prior playing numbers.

We have to stop narrative stuff and watch tape.....the tape tells you what's being coached.....not your coaching reputation or what you did BEFORE.......what are you doing TODAY.....???

Right now, I have to start debunking myths and narratives until I see REBOUNDING......if Jay Young is as advertised and is credited with being a big man coach, start coaching REBOUNDING......

Go watch the games.....just because you get beat off the dribble, doesn't mean as much, it happens all the time, when we do it vs our opponents.

What happens is in half court sets is just as critical, when you see it most possessions. It's an easy fix, but I don't see any fundamentals on a consistent basis.

 

[RUsojo]

That's right focus on EO, the limited player who only tries to block shots of people at rim and call out his 3 rebounds in ten minutes that led the team in rebounds per minute. Hard to score if you don't touch the ball. No mention of Lathan and his 5 rebounds in 26 minutes (which by my math is much worse) or his turnover for every basket he scored?

@bethlehemfan is the correct one in this thread

Imo the board is really bad at staying equal in who gets blame and credit.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I agree you’ve identified the exact issue from last year (where primarily Cliff would take himself out of position)

I don’t see that being the primary rebounding issue this year. (Except for when Ace is trying to block everything - which he was in that mode last night).

I think it’s focus and effort from all 5 , every time.

The coaching staff identified this issue as life or death in the St. John’s game. They been coaching it and watching tape on it nearly every day since I’m sure. I think it’s just roster construction and the internal desire and focus of a few guys at a time while on the court which buries the whole team

It is roster construction AND inability to change lineups.

I don't know many Power 4 programs who purposely start 2 players who are not starting caliber (Ogbole and Martini).

Every possession matters at the start of games and start of 2nd half. The lead went from 7 to 12 at the start of the 2nd half....its not a matter of scoring, sometimes when you score in a game is just as important as how many points.

If you gave Sommerville an extra 12 possessions per game at the start of the game and start of 2nd half, we are 4PPG better......if you play anyone else other than Martini for his minutes, add another 4PPG and better defense.

 

[RUJMM78]

Its readily clear that many fans are very knowledgeable regarding basic basketball fundamentals.Teams have video tape and spend hours in practice correcting mistakes.In Rutgers case the corrective action isn't working. The Columbia game was the only one where the team performed at a high level at both ends of the court.The Rutgers coaching staff gets the credit or blame based on team performance.

 

[pmvon]

Imo the board is really bad at staying equal in who gets blame and credit.

I agree but what is your view in case I missed it. I think it’s crazy that people are saying that they are not coaching these kids to box out etc on fundamentals. It’s a hunger and execution thing in my view. Now Pike recruited these kids and 3 or 4 are slow. So that’s a whiff. Not sure you can blame him for them going from 40 percent three point shooters to 20 percent or their execution of basic 101 basketball. 4 slow kids though, yeah.

 

[Ronnie_B]

It's a God damn shame Cliff didn't stick around.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I agree but what is your view in case I missed it. I think it’s crazy that people are saying that they are not coaching these kids to box out etc on fundamentals. It’s a hunger and execution thing in my view. Now Pike recruited these kids and 3 or 4 are slow. So that’s a whiff. Not sure you can blame him for them going from 40 percent three point shooters to 20 percent or their execution of basic 101 basketball. 4 slow kids though, yeah.

Winthrop
Chattanooga
Minnesota
Sam Houston State

Which one if these 4 schools allowed a wider amount of offensive rebounds??

So, you're saying ALL other schools have better players than RU.....all 360+ others, like Monmouth, Seton Hall, Merrimack and St Peter's??

The lengths people go to, to blame players is fine....someone is coaching them on a daily, weekly, monthly basis at every program in America......it makes ZERO sense that the gaps are this wide and ignore the coaching.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It's a God damn shame Cliff didn't stick around.

Cliff didn't rebound that much here, unless you think 8 REBS a game in 30 minutes is a lot.....people are killing Lathan Sommerville averaging 5 Boards a game in about 20 minutes....no one looks at actual production, it's 3 point shooting and other nonsense.

 

[Ronnie_B]

Cliff didn't rebound that much here, unless you think 8 REBS a game in 30 minutes is a lot.....people are killing Lathan Sommerville averaging 5 Boards a game in about 20 minutes....no one looks at actual production, it's 3 point shooting and other nonsense.

You don't think he would have helped? And 8 rebounds a game is pretty good

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Career numbers...and these numbers are consistent over his 5 years.

Cliff's defensive rebounding % is 23.7%. This is a real number and is meaningful.

If the opposition misses a shot Cliff gets the rebound 23.7% of the time.

Lathan is at 15.4%. That means Lathan is only getting 65% of the rebounds that Cliff would have gotten. Humongous differential.

Cliff blocked shots AND rebounded.

We were #5 in defensive efficiency last year.

Cliff even having a bad year made an enormous impact defensively.

If we defended like we did last year there would be ZERO concerns about making the tournament

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Disagree here with NJH...but

Dylan Grant fan club
President @NewJerseyHawk
Vice President @Greene Rice FIG
Secretary @Scarlet Shack
Treasureer @Scangg (he is now free after he and I disbanded the Mag fan club)...NJH was right here!

 

[RU84]

From prior teams we know Pike can coach defense, boxing out and rebounding. Either the coaches have slacked off and not emphasizing it, the players aren't absorbing the coaching or the players don't have the DNA/toughness/desire. It's got to be one or more of these issues.

 

[seansherm]

The issue is we have coaches ON STAFF, who fans claim needed to be brought back (like JAY YOUNG), who's entire career is based on fundamentals and defense.....

Where are the basics.....?? Why could I go watch Shaq Doorson, Candido Sa, Mike Williams, Deshawn Freeman execute these basics in MSG 6 to 7 years ago......??

Having coaches on staff means very little, if there's no indication of work being put in.

I left MSG 6 to 7 years ago 3 straight nights vs Richard Pitino Jr and Minnesota and one team had better players (Minnesota), but another team boxed out and played fundamentals on defense (RU)

The next night, I spent more money for tickets and watched another poorly coached Indiana team (Archie Miller I think) with vastly better players, also not box out and try to block shots by Corey Sanders and Geo Baker .....

It wasn't until we faced Purdue and Matt Painter with another very good team, who also hit shots but had enough discipline and basics to actuallybox RU out, to outlast the other disciplined and fundamentally sound led backcourt of Baker and Corey Sanders.....that was as entertaining of a game at MSG.

Same staff......(Pike, Knight, Young).....it is a coaching issue and it's essentially the same coaching staff. Young was credited then with big man coaching and rebounding....maybe, but today, his return to the staff, has resulted in NO impact or improvement on the court.

Is Mike Williams a better rebounding guard than Jordan Derkack?? Maybe.....let's call it even...both play tough, but Mike played fundamentals better than any RU guard in a decade or more.....

Is Shaq Doorson a better rebounding big man than Cliff Omoyuri?? The fact that I'm even asking the question is a concern......

Anyone else who wants to claim how critical it was to bring back Jay Young.....shouldn't the actual results be better??

I don't follow the herd of sheep who will try and sell you a storyline........the results and eye test tell me who's well coached and who's not.

Think time has adjusted your memories. Minnesota was not with better players, in fact, I can't remember one of them. Indiana was a .500 team, and both teams had 26 rebounds in that one.

Doorson had 10 rebounds combined in those three games, you asking the question doesn't make it meaningful. Doorson basically averaged the amount of rebounds you hammer Ogbole for that year and played more minutes.

You forget to mention the top three rebounders on that team in Freeman, Omoruyi, and Thiam.

Williams was a better player than Derkack, yes.

 

[seansherm]

Lathan Sommerville at least scores....he had 8 & 5 & averages 8 & 5.

The problem with RU fans is a clear indication that they cannot be objective.

If someone scores 8 and gets 5 rebounds and another player scores 0 and has 3 rebounds......and ONE starts and the other one doesn't.....common sense would indicate that the player providing 8 & 5, is NOT the problem.

The player who starts each half and is not a scoring threat, can at LEAST be fundamentally sound and do basic basketball items, like box out and rebound. I dont even expect Ogbole to score.....I "should" expect him to be able to grab more than 3 boards in 15 minutes a night....

Who starts mean's absolutely nothing, and where does objectivity come into your thoughts?

In the last five games, LS is averaging 7 and 4 in just under 19 per and EO is averaging 5 and 4 in 16 per. Why should you "expect" anything out of Ogbole if you don't expect it out of Sommerville. Ogbole is shooting 65% from the floor, so he's not doing anything he shouldn't be.

I honestly don't really think either of them are the "problem", and they should be combining for a full 40 minutes a night. They both have their warts but are better than anything we put at that spot for the additional 6 minutes a night.

 

[seansherm]

Imo the board is really bad at staying equal in who gets blame and credit.

It's really good at targeting low hanging fruit, and is enamored by offense.

 

[seansherm]

Cliff didn't rebound that much here, unless you think 8 REBS a game in 30 minutes is a lot.....people are killing Lathan Sommerville averaging 5 Boards a game in about 20 minutes....no one looks at actual production, it's 3 point shooting and other nonsense.

No one is killing LS for 5 rebounds in 20 minutes or the actual 4 he's averaging in 19. You killed EO for 3 in 10. People kill LS for his lack of defense, occasional shot forcing, he's still been all I'd hope for in a freshman big.

 

[seansherm]

Career numbers...and these numbers are consistent over his 5 years.

Cliff's defensive rebounding % is 23.7%. This is a real number and is meaningful.

If the opposition misses a shot Cliff gets the rebound 23.7% of the time.

Lathan is at 15.4%. That means Lathan is only getting 65% of the rebounds that Cliff would have gotten. Humongous differential.

Cliff blocked shots AND rebounded.

We were #5 in defensive efficiency last year.

Cliff even having a bad year made an enormous impact defensively.

If we defended like we did last year there would be ZERO concerns about making the tournament

Cliff is averaging over two more rebounds and the same points in the less minutes than LS this year. Obviously, different situations, but still.

 

[RRRRUUUU]

IF YOU SHOOT <30% FROM 3 AND TAKE THE SHOT.. YOU SURE AS HELL BETTER BE CRASHING THE BOARDS!!

guys like derkak and jmike love to take the open 3, and then retreat on D like it’s def going in. If they want to take those shots, they need to go for the 75% chance it’s a miss!!