The Rettig myth
- Thread starter ru-baby
- Start date
Really? The 5th string QB at Rutgers is going to make an NFL roster? Put down the pipe.
Actually, the number you are using is Passing Efficiency (Rating) which is not QBR. QBR has a max of 100.0.
Yes, sadly it is not about winning games right now it has been reduced to who can make a first down.
The burden of proof is on the coaches to field a QB that can advance the offense down the field and score TD's. In case you missed it, a very dejected Chris Ash was at the podium on Saturday night saying "We have to get better on offense."
I would think the kid who threw more TD's as a senior in HS than all the other qb's ahead of him, combined, might warrant some investigation when you're looking for more offense. I should think the kid who provided the sole TD in a blowout vs. OSU might get another look. I would think the kid who had the biggest play of the game vs. Wisconsin, might warrant a look. I should think the kid who delivered the one deep ball TD in the spring game, might warrant a look.
All this offense asks of the QB at this point is to take a few shots down the field a game and throw a handful of short passes. Why would anyone think Laviano gives the team a better chance of success at doing that? How many times do you have to watch him try?
We are running an offense where the qb is supposed to be a threat to run. It's scary how basic out offense is now. Put in the running qb's. The starter can't run and is a poor passer, the OL isn't playing well and the wr's can't get separation. Laviano makes our run game worse since all we do is run inside.
This is as obvious as can be but the "cool" opinion on this forum won't allow for clear headed thought.
Interesting to see how this unfolded and I guess not too surprising. The above quote is exactly the underpinning of the Retting myth. The argument that he should only play because he will perform magic or play exceedingly well (aka magic). WHY? Why does retting need to be head and shoulders above everyone else to have a shot?
One can see that some vehemently shout down one potential qb (Retting) and defend a status quo that has produced back to back zeros and historically low offensive output. WHY? We're not talking back to back losses. We are talking national punching bag results. Why would the status quo be defended? Under what logical basis? It's honestly a head scratcher absent some personal investment. Otherwise what would one care about trying a new qb?
Arguing about qbr when we have had shutout losses and a merciful Wash beatdown, all of which with no O. This small but vocal mob shouting down trying new qb's is really something. 5th string? You really think Rettig is not better than Gio and Allen? The need to repeat the clichés and the 5th string stuff has to be stemming from friend or family relation or other personal investment. Wanting to continue with the same players that led to 0's without trying something else (yes at all positions where issues) is absurd. Can't see anything logical otherwise.
Again a two headed Oden/retting qb sure would bring some excitement and I bet more O than what we have seen.
I personally would have no issue if Rettig saw the field, if the staff feels he's going to give us the best chance to succeed.
Calling for him as some sort of savior to "get first downs" or "open up the field for the running game" is just wrong headed. Thinking he would have done either against Michigan is a pipe dream.
Setting any expectation at all that he'll perform better than those who have passed ahead of him on the depth chart is also wrong headed. All the QBs got a new playbook and staff to work with this year, and he got leapfrogged by Gio Rescigno (who he was ahead of last year) in the pecking order (and fell behind two newcomers in Allen and Oden).
There's just as much justification calling for Rescigno or Dare as there is for Rettig, right now.
What Rettig has going for him is a perception that he somehow deserves more of a shot to see the field because rating agencies gave him four stars and because LSU signed him first - there is myth and legend building up around him, and he's not even the backup. Some folks have flipped the "backup quarterback is the most popular guy on the team" script to skip three further down the depth chart, somehow.
***
What we have now hasn't been working - but what we have as backups aren't going to suddenly turn into Peyton Manning or Cam Newton out there, either.
This is a system that calls for a dual threat quarterback, and the future of this offense will be dual threat quarterbacks taking the snaps. We know this is the direction the staff is going because every QB they've been involved with since they've gotten here has been a dual threat guy.
We have exactly two of those in the system right now. One's playing catch up after not playing the position for two seasons, and the other is a true freshman toothpick who needs a lot of time working on S&C.
Next year, the QB competition will almost certainly be between Allen, Oden, and Lewis. Playing around with pro-style juniors trying to retool themselves to be dual threats isn't going to move us forward, nor is abandoning the system to try to accommodate mediocre pro style QBs who will be gone after next season. If we're already writing off the rest of this season, we might as well start working the dual threat guys more into the scheme.
Calling for him as some sort of savior to "get first downs" or "open up the field for the running game" is just wrong headed. Thinking he would have done either against Michigan is a pipe dream.
Setting any expectation at all that he'll perform better than those who have passed ahead of him on the depth chart is also wrong headed. All the QBs got a new playbook and staff to work with this year, and he got leapfrogged by Gio Rescigno (who he was ahead of last year) in the pecking order (and fell behind two newcomers in Allen and Oden).
There's just as much justification calling for Rescigno or Dare as there is for Rettig, right now.
What Rettig has going for him is a perception that he somehow deserves more of a shot to see the field because rating agencies gave him four stars and because LSU signed him first - there is myth and legend building up around him, and he's not even the backup. Some folks have flipped the "backup quarterback is the most popular guy on the team" script to skip three further down the depth chart, somehow.
***
What we have now hasn't been working - but what we have as backups aren't going to suddenly turn into Peyton Manning or Cam Newton out there, either.
This is a system that calls for a dual threat quarterback, and the future of this offense will be dual threat quarterbacks taking the snaps. We know this is the direction the staff is going because every QB they've been involved with since they've gotten here has been a dual threat guy.
We have exactly two of those in the system right now. One's playing catch up after not playing the position for two seasons, and the other is a true freshman toothpick who needs a lot of time working on S&C.
Next year, the QB competition will almost certainly be between Allen, Oden, and Lewis. Playing around with pro-style juniors trying to retool themselves to be dual threats isn't going to move us forward, nor is abandoning the system to try to accommodate mediocre pro style QBs who will be gone after next season. If we're already writing off the rest of this season, we might as well start working the dual threat guys more into the scheme.
He doesn't. But no one's calling for him to be head and shoulders above everyone else (though some are magically assuming he will be). People are calling for our 5th QB to get in the game because they've lost faith in the first 4, and they're willing to grasp at any straw they can right now. If he didn't have that fourth star coming out of HS, and he had come from a MAC school before Rutgers, no one would even be talking about him right now.
Perhaps rather than hs rankings its actually because Rettig's been seen throwing live game tds, including against Ashs own defense.
Exactly.
A myth is not something we have seen with our own eyes.
Rather, a myth would be an unverifiable story, like: "CL gives us the best chance to win."
Understand but this us what happens when u get your ads whipped by 70 something points. People will start questioning the staff
This is going to keep happening because until we get a win. When you lose by over 70 points, some people will have a hard time believing that the coaches know what they are doing.
Is that really it? Because Rettig threw for a single FBS TD last year against OSU in the final minute of the game?
I broke down the OSU final drive above. Agudosi beat a walkon CB badly, and Patton beat an injured 3rd string CB who missed the rest of the season. That's not exactly world beating stuff. And if anyone knows what defensive players were on the field and how they performed on that particular play, it'd be Ash.
Janarion Grant has more FBS TDs than Rettig does (1 against Nebraska last year, and 1 against New Mexico this year).
Still, if a fan wants "anyone else, I don't care who" - rational thought isn't going to matter much. At this point, clamoring for Oden or Rescigno makes more sense than clamoring for Rettig, though.
And those of us there knew that Laviano underthrew balls to Carroo that Carroo turned into long TDs, leading to that high QBR. Rettig looked better overall and was against a fresh opponent in a 0-0 game.
Choppin, you have nothing to worry about. Laviano is starting agin and the kid who can make all teh throws is watching. You're all set.
His brother is in the NFL, with similar skill-set and build. Experts said out of high school that Hayden had even better tools and frame than his brother. By all that alone, he may get a warm up.
But one thing's for certain - no other QB on the roster's getting a look from the NFL.
The fact is Rettig is obviously a fan favorite. The NJ.com poll clearly illustrated when he is by far the leader to start. Now does that mean anything? No not really.
But in dead time to a team kicking your butt, why not throw the fan favorite out there??? You have everything to gain as a coach.
If he does surprisingly well... maybe you have a QB who does better in a game than in practice.
If he sucks... you shut up critical fans in an instant.
We've had 3 stubborn coaches in a row, none of which have worked on understanding the psychology of the crowd. You obviously have to coach your way, but the great coaches know to throw the fans a bone every now and then when they can.
If Flood did that, he'd probably still be coaching another year.
But in dead time to a team kicking your butt, why not throw the fan favorite out there??? You have everything to gain as a coach.
If he does surprisingly well... maybe you have a QB who does better in a game than in practice.
If he sucks... you shut up critical fans in an instant.
We've had 3 stubborn coaches in a row, none of which have worked on understanding the psychology of the crowd. You obviously have to coach your way, but the great coaches know to throw the fans a bone every now and then when they can.
If Flood did that, he'd probably still be coaching another year.
The bold is where you are wrong. If a player has not earned the right to play he should not be played or you risk losing the culture of your team. You would be rewarding a guy with playing time ahead of others who put the time and effort and this would send a clear message to the players that putting in half efforts is acceptable. That's not a culture you want to promote.
The fans views on a message board means little and Rettig will not win a game given the state of the rest of the team so throwing a bone to a small group of fans has very limited rewards and a lot to lose (see above)
And not trying to be funny, but are you serious with the last comment about Flood?
Seriously? This is hard for you to understand? We just went through a game - an entire game - in which QBs struggled to get a friggin' first down. I don't think people are GUARANTEEING that Rettig is the answer, but if you think the QBs we've been using are getting the job done you're watching different games than the rest of us.
"The kid who can make all the throws". No one on our roster can "make all the throws" - certainly not with the way our OL has been protecting and our WRs have been struggling to get separation.
Personally, I feel there's as much value to be gained with Laviano as there is with Rettig, at this point. Laviano, as far as I'm concerned, should have officially lost his starting spot after the last two games. I'm ready to move on and stop messing around with pro-style QBs whose skillsets don't match our offense.
**
Just a note on Rettig, too.
He left LSU for a reason. Cam Cameron had come in and was in the process of changing the offense Rettig was recruited for, and he fell down the depth chart (sound familiar?). Stephen Rivers transferred out a few months before Rettig did, too, citing at the time that the offense was "going in a different direction".
He came to Rutgers with high hopes and high expectations - a highly regarded pro-style QB coming to a pro-style system that would have a QB opening after his redshirt year. And after being the #2 guy last year.... we go and change our offense, pulling the rug out from under him, and he again falls down the depth chart.
Just a tough bit of luck for him - two times running into situations where a new OC came in and totally changed the offensive scheme to something that didn't suit his strengths.
The day a head coach starts making personnel decisions based on what the fans want is the day the AD should start looking for the next head coach.
Just let us see one series and a couple of deep passes. If I'm the coach of Illinois - based on film -I am stacking the box. A surprise series with a strong armed thrower can really throw a planned defensive game plan awry.
If Laviano is playing, then we aren't running the power spread. He doesn't run. If you are going to play a non-running qb that is in the game partially because he is the best passer (between oden, gio and allen) then playing Rettig isn't crazy. I don't think anyone is saying that Rettig is a superstar or expects him to lead RU to wins over OSU or Mich. Right now, I'd rather watch Friday night lights with 10 year Olds than our offense.
If you are going to move onto a qb that will run with the ball, Rettig is definitely 5th string.
Since the OL can't pass block and we no longer have grant, I think the priority should be placed on the qb being able to run. That takes Rettig and Laviano out of the mix.
So long as Laviano continues to steal practice reps, we're screwed on offense.
If you are going to move onto a qb that will run with the ball, Rettig is definitely 5th string.
Since the OL can't pass block and we no longer have grant, I think the priority should be placed on the qb being able to run. That takes Rettig and Laviano out of the mix.
So long as Laviano continues to steal practice reps, we're screwed on offense.
This.The saying is, if a coach starts listening to the fans, it is not long before he is sitting with them.
I supported our move to the spread and understand the growing pains associated with it. I do however think it's crucial for us to win a couple of more games this year and secure this recruiting class. The best way to improve this team is to have a more productive offense. I do not see the answer among our spread style QB's. While I recognize playing Rettig would be a step back from where we are heading, I fear for this team and it's offense, on the course we are on in terms of the impact it might have with recruits.
We need someone to throw the football down the field for positive yardage. Someone who can convert a 3rd and eight. That's Rettig. Everyone else has had their chance, except for Gio and lets be honest, he's behind the two other spread QB's for a reason and it isn't because he can't run.
Huh? Coaches aren't running a popularity contest. They are running a team and must eventually win games in order to keep their jobs. Doing things that help us win, including getting experience for those you view as viable future QBs for the team makes sense. Doing things that you know are bad for winning now and the future just because fans always love the player on the bench gains the coach absolutely nothing.
The only thing that can be done to shut up critical fans is to win. And even that won't shut up some of them.
Okay. Next coach we hire, we'll insist that he take a poll of the crowd at the start of the game to see who to put on the two deep. That should work, right?
I know it's been said, but I can't figure out why a few high volume posters so vehemently argue to continue the same path that this team has been on at qb.
This qb topic is not asking for a coach to follow a fan poll and the clichés about fans running a team, back up qb's are the most popular etc, are really getting quite Baghdad Bob esque. Defending back to back 0's as the only right way to do things is a spectacularly biased or myopic position given the results through 6 games
If we turn the topic around--
1. Assuming that you are not family, friends or have a personal interest (which may shorten the list of high volume vocal defenders of the status quo), why do the few vocal supporters want to keep Laviano and/or Allen as the only qbs that play
2 Under what paradigm does Laviano deserve to start his 18th straight game--(In advance can not say he is the best option when others have not been fully explored in GAME action--btw see Chip Kelly's quote today about Gabbert being the best in practice but it not translting to games)
3 Do you really believe a system of Oden and rtig would produce worse results going forward than Laviano and/or Allen?
1. Not family, friends, or have personal interest.
2. I think Laviano has played his way out of the starting lineup at this point. I've always seen him as "most serviceable option while the dual threat guys get up to speed"... but his performance has lost him that "most serviceable" description, imo. Admittedly, this was against two of the best programs in the country, without his #1 target, but he's completed 4 passes in 2 games, all to the same guy.
3. I think that we need to start looking toward next year, and giving our dual threat quarterbacks the opportunity to gain live game experience. That's Allen and Oden, really, though one could argue Rescigno belongs in there, too.
I'm pretty much done with pro style guys singing South Park's "I can Change, I can Change!" song and taking minutes away from dual threat guys. Laviano and Rettig should be outside the top four QBs as we head into 2017, so I don't see a ton of value in giving them practice or game reps at this point.
Personally, I don't care who starts. I don't think anyone is saying that it should be Laviano or Allen, just that there is not enough information for a poster to be able to say it should be someone else, whether it is one half against a FCS and one pass against OSU for Rettig, or one run against Howard for Gio.
I agree with premise that we may not know who is best suited.
That being said, don't we have enough sample size of Laviano (and perhaps Allen) to know it's not them for the future?
Thus, shouldn't we try Oden, Gio or Rettig? Rettig only rises to the discussion because we have seen him lead td drives, including against a team that shut out the current qb 2x. Just adds to the discussion but by no means dispositive.
The question I have not seen is where would Retting be with 17 starts under his belt? Tat to me is an intriguing one.
That being said, don't we have enough sample size of Laviano (and perhaps Allen) to know it's not them for the future?
Thus, shouldn't we try Oden, Gio or Rettig? Rettig only rises to the discussion because we have seen him lead td drives, including against a team that shut out the current qb 2x. Just adds to the discussion but by no means dispositive.
The question I have not seen is where would Retting be with 17 starts under his belt? Tat to me is an intriguing one.
