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The up way too late game thread
- Thread starter Trekology
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Greene
I know you know your hoops...and here is the thing
When you have THIS much inexperience, kids are going to get it at a different rate...and they are going to "get" different things.
I think NEXT year...with a whole year to work on weakness (and another S&C year) is when you should see the "micro" things improved that make the whole better. A team of sophs and juniors should be individually know and the label of "inexperience" should be wearing away...
looking for signs is one thing...but I think there is so much inexperience that there is so much to look for that its easy to pick up things that are obvious (good and bad) and run with it...and it's really just a small percentage of a whole picture that is looking to improve
I know you know your hoops...and here is the thing
When you have THIS much inexperience, kids are going to get it at a different rate...and they are going to "get" different things.
I think NEXT year...with a whole year to work on weakness (and another S&C year) is when you should see the "micro" things improved that make the whole better. A team of sophs and juniors should be individually know and the label of "inexperience" should be wearing away...
looking for signs is one thing...but I think there is so much inexperience that there is so much to look for that its easy to pick up things that are obvious (good and bad) and run with it...and it's really just a small percentage of a whole picture that is looking to improve
Don't disagree . In this new world of one and done, however, there is so much team "inexperience" out there, but these kids play so much ball these days under all kinds of conditions that "inexperience" really isn't much of an excuse anymore. The coaching staff has to take the experience these kids do have and make it fit into a team concept. So far, EJ hasn't shown that he is up to that. With this group, it's still early, but this next year routine has gotten very old around here.
agreed (ex-the free throw thing. That is something that is so critical in many games that a point here or there means a win or loss. No bigger indicator of a team's focus and practice)
Yeah, and once you've built this much needed experience, Freeman will be gone.
The problem goes well past experience. Last year we had two talented seniors, one of whom got a shot with an NBA team this year. And yet we stunk. The real problem is too few talented players. There's always one or two of those, then a couple of acceptable guys, and then a roster full of players who wouldn't make most other league rosters.
The make-up of this team, so far, seems very similar to that once again, and the big whiff on the fall recruits suggests it will continue.
The problem goes well past experience. Last year we had two talented seniors, one of whom got a shot with an NBA team this year. And yet we stunk. The real problem is too few talented players. There's always one or two of those, then a couple of acceptable guys, and then a roster full of players who wouldn't make most other league rosters.
The make-up of this team, so far, seems very similar to that once again, and the big whiff on the fall recruits suggests it will continue.
This game is just a reflection of decades of futility with the only change the names of the coaches or players.The one constant is the lack of enough scorers on the court at the same time.In this game Sanders carried Rutgers in the first half and Daniels in the second half.When Creighton scored 13 straight points there was not one player that stepped up to stop the streak.It has nothing to do with the players being young but rather the inability to score at critical times.As out of control Daniels plays he at least gives Rutgers a player who isn't afraid to take the shot which really isn't saying very much.
College basketball has changed dramatically with the 3 point shot and the 30 second time clock. Defenses must cope with these changes because there is a faster pace to the game which tires players and gives opponents open shots .Rutgers clearly hasn't mastered the defensive challenges and need more consistent 3 point shooting on offense.
College basketball has changed dramatically with the 3 point shot and the 30 second time clock. Defenses must cope with these changes because there is a faster pace to the game which tires players and gives opponents open shots .Rutgers clearly hasn't mastered the defensive challenges and need more consistent 3 point shooting on offense.
Does Eddie have the toughness to demand that players make an effort to do things the right way? Watched Michigan State last night. Izzo is a controlled nut. you do something wrong you hear about it and may sit.
How many times in 3 years have you seen a player make a mistake, come out of the game, be talked to on the bench, and be put back in the game?
When our guys do something wrong Jordan gives a disappointed look.
He is still too nice.
How many times in 3 years have you seen a player make a mistake, come out of the game, be talked to on the bench, and be put back in the game?
When our guys do something wrong Jordan gives a disappointed look.
He is still too nice.
Not really. There is a core group of regular posters that actually engage in meaningful conversations about basketball, including tactics, strategy, player strengths, areas of improvement for players, coaches and the team............ THEN, You have the people who drop in some one liners and they are gone...until they decide to come back and drop in some more one liners. They never really add anything meaningful, the posts are always the same...., "team sucks", "jordan sucks", "this player is lazy", "that player is wild", etc.
Choppin I hope you're right. Maybe the day off will be good for them before we play Clemson. But you're right; they looked gassed in the second half.
It was late so maybe I'm not remembering things 100% correct but starting the second half, they made the mistake of trying to get Lewis going. If Iremember correctly, there were 2 straight possessions where they force fed him the ball with two misses. I'm starting to get tired of seeing any plays designed for him. He just hasn't been good shooting and started the half on the wrong foot. Lewis is a decent defender and rebounder. Coach has to stop trying to get him going offensively
Well, we had the demanding, tough guy in Rice and I remember that you(GRF) didn't care much for his language during games among other things. We had another demanding guy in Bannon who I liked and had some success but in the end he imploded like Rice did. I like detail oriented task masters at the college level but after Rice we weren't going to with another one of those. When we let Bannon go they said we needed a "healer" and we got Waters who certainly demanded defense but our offense wasn't ever very pretty. I like Eddie's offense but our defense and our defensive intensity hasn't been very good the last few years.I actually thought it was better in the first 4 games. I didn't see last night.
Here's my view on the Rutgers defense and the criticism on this board....., some may disagree.
The defense is certainly better than last year. Guys are working harder, getting after more loss balls, more steals (Sanders and Freeman) and blocking more shots (Freeman). But, what some view as defensive laziness is often offensive guys making great plays. It could be a pump fake and a drive right around the defender ( My favorite move when I played), it could be a hesitation and go dribble that is just a great move to the basket that makes the defender look like he is standing in concrete, it could be a great crossover dribble that makes the defender look silly.
Those types of moves and plays happen in a 40 minute game. To call someone lazy or a horrible defender or to call out the coach for NOT teaching defense based on some of those individual plays is silly. These are pretty good and fast athletic guys playing on every team. Add in the new rules about defenders not being able to use their forearm in 1 on 1 defense and it makes it tough. One of the things the announcers mentioned last night is about how many more fouls are being called all across college basketball. The rules favor the offense.
That being said, there is absolutely room for improvement.
The defense is certainly better than last year. Guys are working harder, getting after more loss balls, more steals (Sanders and Freeman) and blocking more shots (Freeman). But, what some view as defensive laziness is often offensive guys making great plays. It could be a pump fake and a drive right around the defender ( My favorite move when I played), it could be a hesitation and go dribble that is just a great move to the basket that makes the defender look like he is standing in concrete, it could be a great crossover dribble that makes the defender look silly.
Those types of moves and plays happen in a 40 minute game. To call someone lazy or a horrible defender or to call out the coach for NOT teaching defense based on some of those individual plays is silly. These are pretty good and fast athletic guys playing on every team. Add in the new rules about defenders not being able to use their forearm in 1 on 1 defense and it makes it tough. One of the things the announcers mentioned last night is about how many more fouls are being called all across college basketball. The rules favor the offense.
That being said, there is absolutely room for improvement.
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well that's not good either if its not bad defense but your theory of good offensive moves...considering the likes of Central Arky, Rutgers Newark and St Johns are among the weakest around
You are right on here brother. If they only knew how repetitive they sound.
The experience thing is a losing argument. These kids play tons of basketball now. Teams are playing for national championships with freshmen. Our team last year had a lot more experience and it didn't do any good.
I was high on Eddie when he was hired, or at least thought he would bring in some structure and some intelligence to the game. I have seen none of it so far this year.
I think these pro coaches just don't have the attention to detail that college coaches do. These pro guys are typically good in game, are better at game management, but their ability to get into the details doesn't seem great. You don't coach pros the same way you coach college kids, mostly due to the athletic differences. I am not sure Eddie has what it takes anymore. Losing is one thing. Playing sloppy and undisciplined at this point is just what the program is. Their carelessness with the ball alone is something you don't see properly coached teams have, ever.
I was high on Eddie when he was hired, or at least thought he would bring in some structure and some intelligence to the game. I have seen none of it so far this year.
I think these pro coaches just don't have the attention to detail that college coaches do. These pro guys are typically good in game, are better at game management, but their ability to get into the details doesn't seem great. You don't coach pros the same way you coach college kids, mostly due to the athletic differences. I am not sure Eddie has what it takes anymore. Losing is one thing. Playing sloppy and undisciplined at this point is just what the program is. Their carelessness with the ball alone is something you don't see properly coached teams have, ever.
Seriously, experience is a losing argument? Listen to yourself.
There are a handful of freshman who come into college each year who are so exceptional that their talent/skill transcends their lack of experience. Prior to 2006, most of those guys were going straight to the NBA from high school. The vast vast majority of high school players are not ready to become consistent major contributors on a major conference team as true freshmen, and those that do are usually surrounded by more experienced players (or are the one-and-done guys who come in together to a team like Kentucky).
Just because there are exceptional freshmen each year doesn't mean that's the rule. Most of the time, the most valuable players on a team are upperclassmen. 8 of the last 11 NCAA tournament MVPs were juniors or seniors. Two of those that weren't were one-and-done players (Anthony Davis and Tyus Jones).
Most teams don't have one-and-done players. Most successful teams teams that have an exceptional freshman who isn't a one-and-done also have upperclassman surrounding him.
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