Tonight Exhibit A how defense doesn’t win games

[SBP]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

 

[rubjk]

And our game Saturday showed it does as does the first IU, the Purdue game, the Maryland game, the northwestern game, the OSU game, the PSU game, all where we scored 65 or less.

So it clearly does. Our offense hasn’t been good under Pike yet we had 3 very good seasons in a row and on the way to another.

So you are simply flat out wrong.

Can’t wait to see what Gavin, Ace, etc bring to the team. Hopefully similar defense and another 5-10 ppg. Imagine averaging 70+ ppg with the same defense.

 

[ImBadRU]

U need both o and d

 

[SBP]

And our game Saturday showed it does as does the first IU, the Purdue game, the Maryland game, the northwestern game, the OSU game, the PSU game, all where we scored 65 or less.

But not really. Our offensive LOOKED and RESPONDED better, Paul took over. That’s why we won. Remember, not EVERY MISSED BUCKET from the other team is because of our “GREAT” defense it’s because they simply missed shots.. poor offensive execution on their part. Comes down to who can score. Period.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

Ugh. You pick one game to make this pathetic assumption? Pike has won on defense for the past 3 years and RU is in 2nd place in the Big Ten. Guess what… Rutgers isn’t going to win every game.

 

[rubjk]

But not really. Our offensive LOOKED and RESPONDED better, Paul took over. That’s why we won. Remember, not EVERY MISSED BUCKET from the other team is because of our “GREAT” defense it’s because they simply missed shots.. poor offensive execution on their part. Comes down to who can score. Period.

No it comes down to who scores more and defense is a huge part of it. Holding a opponents to an average of 58 isn’t just the other teams having an off night. We were never going to out score anyone just by scoring with our rosters.

I can see this potentially improve with the type of recruits we are getting.

 

[SBP]

Ugh. You pick one game to make this pathetic assumption? Pike has won on defense for the past 3 years and RU is in 2nd place in the Big Ten. Guess what… Rutgers isn’t going to win every game.

I’m at every game. If you watch, be perfectly honest. There’s a lot of wide open looks from the other team that miss simply from execution. It goes both ways. At SOME point you need to score more consistently and stop hoping banking on holding good teams under 60 just to stay close to pull it out .

 

[SBP]

No it comes down to who scores more and defense is a huge part of it. Holding a opponents to an average of 58 isn’t just the other teams having an off night. We were never going to out score anyone just by scoring with our rosters.

I can see this potentially improve with the type of recruits we are getting.

Agree

 

[jerseybird]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

Defense won this game. Indiana brought their A+ defense to stifle Rutgers' offense.

 

[rubjk]

I’m at every game. If you watch, be perfectly honest. There’s a lot of wide open looks from the other team that miss simply from execution. It goes both ways. At SOME point you need to score more consistently and stop hoping banking on holding good teams under 60 just to stay close to pull it out .

Pike does recognize we need more offense to take it to next level and our success due to defense first philosophy has allowed his recruiting to address that.

 

[AZBlues]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

Cliff had 4 rebounds (2 offensive, 2 defensive). Our top 3 rebounders for the game had a combined 17 rebounds between them. TJD had 18 by himself. Although Indiana only outrebounded us by 4, we missed Mag's rebounding and other facets of his game.

 

[fluoxetine]

A point scored and a point prevented are equally valuable.

You can lose 96-90 or 66-60 or anything in between; it's still a loss.

 

[Scangg]

Defense won this game. Indiana brought their A+ defense to stifle Rutgers' offense.

Yup. The irony by OP is strong

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

This is 100% wrong and the exact opposite. Defense wins and when we had our starting 4 plus Simpson we finally were able to play man and get stops and be in a position to win

We can’t win games with Oskar and Hyatt out scoring people. Cant and won’t happen. This game made it painfully obvious.

 

[fluoxetine]

This is 100% wrong and the exact opposite. Defense wins and when we had our starting 4 plus Simpson we finally were able to play man and get stops and be in a position to win

We can’t win games with Oskar and Hyatt out scoring people. Cant and won’t happen. This game made it painfully obvious.

It's only 50% wrong.

 

[fluoxetine]

I do enjoy how OP makes it basically seem as if the poster hasn't really watched any of the games at all, except possibly the most recent one.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's only 50% wrong.

No it’s 100% wrong. It is your impact on O minus your impact on D.

 

[HatterChat]

Look the team is what it is. Enjoy the ride guys aren’t turning into players they haven’t been for 4 years. This team with right matchups in the tourney could get to sweet 16 or lose as a 5 seed to some mid major who makes 12 threes in the first round. The talent infusion is coming. If theses kids buy in coming in you are getting top coaching, culture and then we are rolling.

 

[fluoxetine]

No it’s 100% wrong. It is your impact on O minus your impact on D.

Maybe it's 100% wrong, but the opposite is also 100% wrong. There's nothing inherently better about being offense first or defense first. It's only the net that matters.

 

[SBP]

Yup. The irony by OP is strong

Uhm. Think about it though. That not withstanding. You think those misses and bricks were all because of defense??? You’re sadly wrong.

 

[bac2therac]

This is 100% wrong and the exact opposite. Defense wins and when we had our starting 4 plus Simpson we finally were able to play man and get stops and be in a position to win

We can’t win games with Oskar and Hyatt out scoring people. Cant and won’t happen. This game made it painfully obvious.

and Pike went away from that finally..... but you are not going to win when a bad shooter continues to shoot...1-12 and when your pg does not work hard enough to get your top 2 options involved

 

[SBP]

Look the team is what it is. Enjoy the ride guys aren’t turning into players they haven’t been for 4 years. This team with right matchups in the tourney could get to sweet 16 or lose as a 5 seed to some mid major who makes 12 threes in the first round. The talent infusion is coming. If theses kids buy in coming in you are getting top coaching, culture and then we are rolling.

That’s what’s exciting.. it’s coming…we could if guys step up with offensive consistency

 

[HatterChat]

It’s because you both have expectations for limited players.

and Pike went away from that finally..... but you are not going to win when a bad shooter continues to shoot...1-12 and when your pg does not work hard enough to get your top 2 options involved

Bac this team is who we thought they were. We have to ride the train with new passengers. Pike is going to ride this train with what got him to the station. We have to take the local to get to the express. Fortunately we are hitting the connection on time with Griffiths replaces only McConnell in a perfect world. We make some noise at the bar for our connection then we hit the ground running catch the train and off to the races with Bailey, Harper, Griffiths, Walker etc.

 

[Scangg]

Uhm. Think about it though. That not withstanding. You think those misses and bricks were all because of defense??? You’re sadly wrong.

Every team every game gets open shots. Welcome to basketball

 

[HatterChat]

It’s always a make or miss league. The advantage we have is we bring defense. Nights we get hot a la Purdue we can play with anyone (with Mag). Hence why will be a tough out in the tournament

 

[RutgersDom]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

Defense certainly wins games. It won us 16. And it will continue to allow us to win games this year AND most importantly the coming years WHEN we have better offensive players arriving BUT will also be buying in to the defense Pike preaches.

We lose a tough road game to Indiana and what we have to change the way we play. Relax. Your acting like we were projected to go 27-3 prior to the year starting.

We are right in the thick of things. Enjoy.

 

[goru7]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

Your post is so confusing. Yes average offense and great defense will win most games and good offense and terrible defense will win very little and less in the tourney. Indiana had a good first 15 minutes of offense and that’s it. We outscored them to end the half 38-35. We held them without a field goal for over 9 minutes in the second half. They broke that drought by throwing up an airball that TJD gathered for a bucket and Galloway got an offensive rebound because Derek let him get inside him and put in a rebound. Indiana ‘s great offense did almost nothing and got a little fortunate . So great offense did not win them this game.
Their defense early forced Paul way out to start our offense but then we started getting what we wanted and then we just missed easy makeable shots , stopped driving to the basket to get a bucket or a foul (Caleb) and Paul was sloppy all night (got it stolen 2x) and did not continue driving , nor did he get Cliff the ball and then he missed the front end of one and ones back to back . Despite all that it is a 1 possession game at 59-56 then Cliff gets called for that ridiculous foul on Galloway’s flop , we stop them and then the airball possession. So not sure what great offense you were watching from Indiana’s for most of that game (25 minutes) that you thought offense wins alone.

Now your second paragraph is really a bad take about giving Paul a pass. He only scored 2 , he missed 2x the front end of one and ones , never got the ball to Cliff and did not attack the basket . Miller Kopp somehow scored 18 points , most against Paul or on Paul ‘s side of the zone and at least 3 of the his 4 threes because Paul never got out to him and gave him a free look . Paul ‘s play could be blamed for the loss but the team as a whole lost.
Now Caleb was brutal going 1-12 and settling for shots and refusing to drive but he totally shut down Hood Schifino especially most of the second half and got 8 rebounds . Yeah if he makes 2-3 more shots we win but he did a ton on the defensive end and on the boards.
Cam still slumping ? He actually shot okay and hit some big threes and ended with 14 so not sure what your beef was. There was not a rebounding problem with Cliff getting 4 rebounds not 2 as others chipped in. Now you could make the argument that his trying to box out or push out TJD and not get the airball was a failure of rebounding but just unfortunate in my opinion.
Your take on this game was just not what happened. Amazing.

 

[HatterChat]

It’s simple. This year we have who we have we know their games as these are guys we’ve seen for 3-4 years minus Cam. If we get hot at the right time which can happen as we’ve seen we can make a run. On the other hand I could see us get a 5 seed be stone cold in opening round and a team like say Oral Roberts as a 12 has a hot day and we are one and done. Enjoy the ride. We begged for these situations 15 years ago.

 

[S_Janowski]

What a dumb thread

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

and Pike went away from that finally..... but you are not going to win when a bad shooter continues to shoot...1-12 and when your pg does not work hard enough to get your top 2 options involved

Then again - we almost did overcome this. They won by 6 and 3 of the points were from intentional fouls at the end. We shot 60% from charity including 2 missed front ends by an 83% FT shooter. That’s not to mention the basket they got off the contested air ball that happened to land right in Trace Jackson’s hands under the basket for the putback. Or Cliff’s butter fingers on the rebound at the end to give them a fresh 20.

If there was ever a game to chalk up to “it just wasn’t our day” this was it. Make no mistake, Caleb was dreadful on offense and we have to hope he’s not headed into a funk like the start of last season because we need him on the floor. And his last 2 shots were terrible decisions. But hit or miss, 12 shots total isn’t really that much for a guy who plays 37 minutes. He can’t not shoot in a game where Paul is playing in foul trouble and can’t drive because we can’t afford for him to pick up a charge. Driving is Paul’s game. That’s why he only took 4 shots. Let’s not forget that most of Caleb’s 37 minutes were played with at least one of our better scoring options sitting. Someone has to shoot the ball.

 

[dpwhite]

Cam had 14 points, went 2-5 from 3 and 2-2 from the line. Seems to me he was breaking out his slump, unless you expect 20 from him every night.

 

[RUJMM78]

No it comes down to who scores more and defense is a huge part of it. Holding a opponents to an average of 58 isn’t just the other teams having an off night. We were never going to out score anyone just by scoring with our rosters.

I can see this potentially improve with the type of recruits we are getting.

What fans know is the defense is very good and the offense is mediocre.The end result is that so many games have been decided by six or less points and Rutgers is in a good position to gain another NCAA bid.Pikiell has done a terrific job getting this team to overachieve based on preseason predictions. At the same time the loss of Baker and Harper has impacted the offense at crunch time.In this game Jackson - Davis dominated the Indiana offense at the end of the game and Rutgers had no go to scorer.This is a recruiting problem that is beeing addressed in the next two seasons.

 

[needmorecowbell]

RU lost the game because IU was more aggressive. That’s it. They forced bad shots, got rebounds and got to the line. It’s not because of Caleb’s shot selection. IU push RU into bad spots and made them uncomfortable. Normally something RU does better. Tip your hat to IU. All that being said and RU was right there because they played tough defense in the second half.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

What fans know is the defense is very good and the offense is mediocre.The end result is that so many games have been decided by six or less points and Rutgers is in a good position to gain another NCAA bid.Pikiell has done a terrific job getting this team to overachieve based on preseason predictions. At the same time the loss of Baker and Harper has impacted the offense at crunch time.In this game Jackson - Davis dominated the Indiana offense at the end of the game and Rutgers had no go to scorer.This is a recruiting problem that is beeing addressed in the next two seasons.

Actually the according to Kenpom the offense isn’t really that different this year 96 vs 123. It’s the improvement of defense that’s leading the way.

Last night - the defense was terrible for 5 out of 40 minutes of the game with the subs in. Fix that and we win despite bad offense.

 

[chiphi80]

Silly argument. You'd think we were in last place in a Group of Five league.

We're a good team, but not top 5, so we are going to lose some games, as do the top 5 teams!

The hyperbole on this board is sometimes insane.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Offense wins games. We played good enough defense to win. So did Indiana… even better. Their offense is very good, albeit inconsistent, but overall good.

Caleb so bad. He’s gotta get it together, such a disappointment.
Paul won the last game, and had been so good, can’t blame him.
Cam still slumping, sadly.
Cliff 2 REBOUNDS?! Unacceptable.

Against most programs we play don’t have enough weapons, unless someone gets hot like Paul or Cam. Especially now without Mag.

Hoping for the best against Illinois but expecting the loss realistically.

(SIAP) Cam was 5-11 (2-6) last night for 15 and was 5-6 (3-3) against Minnesota for 17 points. Not how you can say he's "still slumping." Weird comment.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

....we lost because 2 starters couldn't hit the broad side of 5 Indiana barns side-by-side last night (and Cliff wasn't much better). This WILL NOT happen again in a single game the rest of the way. I'd bet (not $10K nor my nuts) on it.

 

[RUJMM78]

Cam had 14 points, went 2-5 from 3 and 2-2 from the line. Seems to me he was breaking out his slump, unless you expect 20 from him every night.

He and Cliff need to take the most shots because Rutgers isn't scoring enough points .This will require better passing and player movement which isn't happening right now.

 

[Shelby65]

Defense won this game. Indiana brought their A+ defense to stifle Rutgers offense.

Indiana didnt stifle anything. our two most experienced players played very poorly, unrelated to the defense.

 

[ScarletDave]

Purdue lost to Indiana therefore having Zach Edey does not win games

You are a moron