Unfortunately for Cliff

[ru-baby]

Agree w zap re difference in results.

Last year Cliff wanted to work on 3s to improve his nba stock. If he would put that out of his head and relish just being a college big man, he would definitely be valuable next year.

And somewhat related, this time could use 10-12 dean reiber mins a night. Theres such an absence of big man and rebounding

 

[zappaa]

Cliff needs to be moving from low block to low block if he isn't at the top of the key. If one of his feet isn't inside this section, he should be invisible to his teammates.

Strip out the dunks from the analysis and I wonder what his FG percentage is when he catches the ball inside and outside of 5 ft from the hoop. The numbers have to be BRUTAL outside of 5 feet.

In each passing game, I get more upset with the staff.

Things develop much differently down low when guards are protecting the ball with their back to the basket.

 

[Shelby65]

I feel bad for Cliff because against these stout B1G teams with 6-9 and 6-10 power forwards to go with their center, he’s just not going to put up points.
We’re going to see 7 and 8 point outputs and think immediately, if he could just get his usual 14 or 15 we win.
His just not gonna get the ball where he needs it to do it

The ‘where’ is only above the rim for a slam. He offers very little on offense otherwise, with or without Paul, etc.

 

[RU-ROCS]

He will not be able to contribute offensively with our current guards, his entire offensive game revolved around Paul, Geo, and Caleb backing down defenders, and dishing off to him.
As great as Simpson was last night, he simply doesn’t have that in his game, nor do any other guards we have.
If we play defense like we did last night in the 2nd half we will win some games, but Cliff is going to be an offensive spectator all year, we just don’t have the player or players to help him

Does anyone else think that Jay Young's departure a couple of years ago has really hurt the development of our Bigs. Cliff has struggled to improve and Wolf seems to have taken a step backwards so far this season. It may be time to bring in a new big man coach.

 

[Scangg]

Agree w zap re difference in results.

Last year Cliff wanted to work on 3s to improve his nba stock. If he would put that out of his head and relish just being a college big man, he would definitely be valuable next year.

And somewhat related, this time could use 10-12 dean reiber mins a night. Theres such an absence of big man and rebounding

Reiber is averaging 1.8 rebounds in 17.8 minutes for Charlotte. Not sure he would be much help.

I'd rather Wolf get those minutes and maybe Ogbole if he can get healthy against bigger 5's

 

[Rokodesh]

It was reported here that Cliff was able to get his NIL deal when the team went to Portugal over the summer. He just could not get paid in the US.

Yes but that's a 3 day trip out of 4 years at Rutgers

 

[Rokodesh]

Reiber is averaging 1.8 rebounds in 17.8 minutes for Charlotte. Not sure he would be much help.

I'd rather Wolf get those minutes and maybe Ogbole if he can get healthy against bigger 5's

I think Wolf lost too much weight, he should have stayed in the 250 range, and have the strength to post up underneath. Now he's getting pushed around by bigger guys and losing rebounds. Ogbole when healthy should absolutely get some time each time. outside of Edey, won't find many guys stronger than him.

 

[hiwater]

Yes but that's a 3 day trip out of 4 years at Rutgers

The length of the trip is meaningless. His deal was packaged long before RU made the trip. It only takes a few minutes to accept the deal.

 

[Kbee3]

I think Wolf lost too much weight, he should have stayed in the 250 range, and have the strength to post up underneath. Now he's getting pushed around by bigger guys and losing rebounds. Ogbole when healthy should absolutely get some time each time. outside of Edey, won't find many guys stronger than him.

So you're saying there's a chance we may see Ogbole on the court in a Rutgers uniform ?
This season ?

 

[goru7]

Cliff’s offensive game is facing and within 5 ft of the basket where he gets the ball [preferably a lob] and goes right up without use of the backboard. If he puts the ball on the floor or has his back to the basket, it’s usually a missed shot or loss of the ball. He struggles against bigger defenders even those less skilled or athletic than him because he can’t dunk over them or make a move around him.

He’s simply not a skilled offensive player but a tremendous athlete who gives great effort.

GO RU

One little quibble. Cliff should use the backboard more. Nothing wrong with banking it in from 5-6 feet which would increase his efficiently tremendously. Cliff’s misses a ton of shots that just roll off the rim when he shoots it directly.
As a priority , I would like us to play inside out and let Cliff pass it out for a 3 especially when doubled. The guards for the life of me have to make better passes and better entry passes. After a few kick outs by Cliff , he will get more room to operate and maybe not double teamed.

 

[satnom]

One little quibble. Cliff should use the backboard more. Nothing wrong with banking it in from 5-6 feet which would increase his efficiently tremendously. Cliff’s misses a ton of shots that just roll off the rim when he shoots it directly.
As a priority , I would like us to play inside out and let Cliff pass it out for a 3 especially when doubled. The guards for the life of me have to make better passes and better entry passes. After a few kick outs by Cliff , he will get more room to operate and maybe not double teamed.

Correct. Meant to write “with” the backboard. He definitely doesn’t use the backboard on shots if he did his scoring would increase significantly.

GO RU

 

[Shelby65]

One little quibble. Cliff should use the backboard more. Nothing wrong with banking it in from 5-6 feet which would increase his efficiently tremendously. Cliff’s misses a ton of shots that just roll off the rim when he shoots it directly.
As a priority , I would like us to play inside out and let Cliff pass it out for a 3 especially when doubled. The guards for the life of me have to make better passes and better entry passes. After a few kick outs by Cliff , he will get more room to operate and maybe not double teamed.

Except Cliff can’t do any of the things you’d like to see him try. Can I add ‘corner jumpers’ to your list ? He’s used in a way to maximize his talent, whatever that is.

 

[mikeyo]

Edy will make the NBA. He tested more athletic than anyone thought he would. Definitely get a shot somewhere

Yeah could be some teams Brook Lopez maybe

 

[goru7]

Except Cliff can’t do any of the things you’d like to see him try. Can I add ‘corner jumpers’ to your list ? He’s used in a way to maximize his talent, whatever that is.

Cliff can hit a 10-12 feet corner jumper but doesn’t take that shot which he should. When he doesn’t have a step or an angle on his defender nothing wrong with his pulling up.

 

[ru-baby]

Charlotte stats dont matter have seen it in b10. Reiber w out question would have helped this teamo

 

[Rokodesh]

So you're saying there's a chance we may see Ogbole on the court in a Rutgers uniform ?
This season ?

I have no clue if he will, just my hope

 

[GRU23]

Charlotte stats dont matter have seen it in b10. Reiber w out question would have helped this teamo

Lol did you watch him at all? Woolf hasn't been great but still been better than Reiber. Hes having a better year this year than Reiber against Rutgers comp rather than Charlotte comp and beat out Reiber for the position last year. No way we are saying REIBER would solve our defense and rebounding issues.

 

[ru-baby]

Not solve but definitely help Not sure how thats debatable given the production

 

[RUbacker]

The whole premise and idea in this thread is flawed. It is not anyone's responsibility for an individual player, not improving or being able to score.

The entire offense was run through Cliff for extended stretches last year and essentially run through Cliff for pretty much the 1st 8 or 9 games and the results from a team performance was not good. How that is somehow laid at the feet of this year's guards is baffling or at best sketchy.

It is not the coaching staffs responsibility to cater an entire offense through any one player, at the team's expense.

No one prevents Cliff from working on his low post game, his catching of passes in the low post, his inability to understand how to secure proper positioning.....it is also not the guards responsibility to make sure Cliff expands his mid range game, shot making or hook shot in either hand.

Cliff is going to make it in the NBA, if he is willing to commit to being a better rebounding big man and can catch lobs on pick and rolls from wings at the next level. That doesn't have to happen for RU to win games, until the player owns the responsibility to prove he's reliable enough to command those touches.

Cliff has 18 more B1G games and the B1G tournament to step up his play. I am not giving up on Cliff as a force that can get a double double 3 out of 4 games the rest of the way, but as long as the guards continue to score like they did vs Ohio State, Cliffs points will develop quickly.

I just don’t see this version of cliff making the NBA

 

[Shelby65]

I just don’t see this version of cliff making the NBA

The David Robinson version of Cliff would make the NBA. Problem is, that’s only an imaginary version which only exists here.

 

[rutobs]

Can we get enough NIL to bring him back next year ?

I love Cliff as part of the team, and he seems like a great kid, but really, this should be his last year. It’s time to move on.

 

[LotusAggressor]

NJH,

It is pretty simple. Our 3 PGs are looking for their own shot. They arent looking to get Cliff the ball 5 feet from the basket.

Or they don't know how and probably haven't been taught. Post play is a lost art in college basketball.

 

[TaxLawyer5]

Cliff may be the worst offensive minded center Rutgers has ever had. And i don’t mean he doesn’t have more skill than some of our past centers. But the ones that had less skill, such as Chuck Weiler, knew their deficiencies. Cliff is a horrendous player with the ball in his hands, but he doesn’t seem to know it. Any possession when Cliff handles the ball, aside from at the top of the key or an alleyoop, is a possession that will very likely end up with no points. I hate writing this. I’ve been rooting so hard for him and for his game to develop. But it just hasn’t. He needs to be just a defensive minded center at this point.

 

[Kbee3]

Cliff may be the worst offensive minded center Rutgers has ever had. And i don’t mean he doesn’t have more skill than some of our past centers. But the ones that had less skill, such as Chuck Weiler, knew their deficiencies. Cliff is a horrendous player with the ball in his hands, but he doesn’t seem to know it. Any possession when Cliff handles the ball, aside from at the top of the key or an alleyoop, is a possession that will very likely end up with no points. I hate writing this. I’ve been rooting so hard for him and for his game to develop. But it just hasn’t. He needs to be just a defensive minded center at this point.

The only thing worse than Cliff catching passes is Cliff making passes.

 

[Shelby65]

And yet many here want him taking jump shots. Has anyone checked to see if has fingers ?

So uncoordinated. Waste of height and waste of time on O.

 

[RUBOB72]

I think Wolf lost too much weight, he should have stayed in the 250 range, and have the strength to post up underneath. Now he's getting pushed around by bigger guys and losing rebounds. Ogbole when healthy should absolutely get some time each time. outside of Edey, won't find many guys stronger than him.

That is not a Rutgers training policy… fat ( 245-250 lb.) guys need to become lean mean fighting machines… who was the 6’10 250+ guy Pikiell had early on? A totally out of the box add on who had very good season ? Can’t think of his name. Think he played overseas post Rutgers.

 

[goru7]

Cliff may be the worst offensive minded center Rutgers has ever had. And i don’t mean he doesn’t have more skill than some of our past centers. But the ones that had less skill, such as Chuck Weiler, knew their deficiencies. Cliff is a horrendous player with the ball in his hands, but he doesn’t seem to know it. Any possession when Cliff handles the ball, aside from at the top of the key or an alleyoop, is a possession that will very likely end up with no points. I hate writing this. I’ve been rooting so hard for him and for his game to develop. But it just hasn’t. He needs to be just a defensive minded center at this point.

Unless you have lost your brain , the only way this season gets turned around is for Cliff to be offensive minded as possible , kick out for 3’s , crash the offensive glass , and pray the guards can hit him on a couple of alley oops per game. Really that much to ask. We were expecting a 15 and 10 guy as a minimum. His single digit scoring and rebounds has been the difference in a number of games. Pike ‘s job to get Cliff back to the level that Big 10 coaches and media thought was first team/ second team.

 

[Shelby65]

Unless you have lost your brain , the only way this season gets turned around is for Cliff to be offensive minded as possible , kick out for 3’s , crash the offensive glass , and pray the guards can hit him on a couple of alley oops per game. Really that much to ask. We were expecting a 15 and 10 guy as a minimum. His single digit scoring and rebounds has been the difference in a number of games. Pike ‘s job to get Cliff back to the level that Big 10 coaches and media thought was first team/ second team.

If you include shooting more, absolutely incorrect and a bizarre take. He has virtually no scoring ability except for dunks. Every entry pass is muffed or shot is missed.

It was a complete waste of multiple possessions to start every game last year to iso him back to the rim 18 feet away.

Absolutely terrible idea for the worst shooter, no moves clumsy big man to shoot more.

The other things, good ideas in theory but good luck with that. Players today expect scoring opportunities in return for team effort. Saw it with McConnell too. ‘Getting theirs’ is a big part of the game nowadays, especially players who aren’t PGs.

 

[ru-baby]

What I ahve seen is that while Woolf has some strengths, rim protector-and scorer, are not among them. Did you watch reiber against Ill at home a few years back or a number of other games---he has attributes wold does not have and thus could help. It's not a wolf or reiber thing and no reason to make it that. The opponent could dictate needs as Pike had addressed. I think woolf is a solid player, but his one coast to coast play appears to have hyptonized a few here. Anyway it's not a choice we now have but a rim protector and scorer would help and not sure how one could argue against that and while reiber wasnt great at that, he could do it to some degree which so far has been absent in woolfs game.

 

[Scangg]

What I ahve seen is that while Woolf has some strengths, rim protector-and scorer, are not among them. Did you watch reiber against Ill at home a few years back or a number of other games---he has attributes wold does not have and thus could help. It's not a wolf or reiber thing and no reason to make it that. The opponent could dictate needs as Pike had addressed. I think woolf is a solid player, but his one coast to coast play appears to have hyptonized a few here. Anyway it's not a choice we now have but a rim protector and scorer would help and not sure how one could argue against that and while reiber wasnt great at that, he could do it to some degree which so far has been absent in woolfs game.

Reiber is not a rim protector or scorer

 

[TaxLawyer5]

Unless you have lost your brain , the only way this season gets turned around is for Cliff to be offensive minded as possible , kick out for 3’s , crash the offensive glass , and pray the guards can hit him on a couple of alley oops per game. Really that much to ask. We were expecting a 15 and 10 guy as a minimum. His single digit scoring and rebounds has been the difference in a number of games. Pike ‘s job to get Cliff back to the level that Big 10 coaches and media thought was first team/ second team.

I guess i have lost my brain because i completely disagree. You want cliff to kick the ball out for 3s to a team that can’t hit the side of a barn with a shot. No thanks. I rather him not touch the ball at all. And you want him to crash the offensive glass??? No thanks. I prefer he get back on defense and protect our rim. That’s his greatest asset.

 

[Shelby65]

I guess i have lost my brain because i completely disagree. You want cliff to kick the ball out for 3s to a team that can’t hit the side of a barn with a shot. No thanks. I rather him not touch the ball at all. And you want him to crash the offensive glass??? No thanks. I prefer he get back on defense and protect our rim. That’s his greatest asset.

Agree in theory, but as i say above nobody would give any effort on D if they aren’t given ample opportunities on O. That’s basketball.

 

[Shelby65]

What I ahve seen is that while Woolf has some strengths, rim protector-and scorer, are not among them. Did you watch reiber against Ill at home a few years back or a number of other games---he has attributes wold does not have and thus could help. It's not a wolf or reiber thing and no reason to make it that. The opponent could dictate needs as Pike had addressed. I think woolf is a solid player, but his one coast to coast play appears to have hyptonized a few here. Anyway it's not a choice we now have but a rim protector and scorer would help and not sure how one could argue against that and while reiber wasnt great at that, he could do it to some degree which so far has been absent in woolfs game.

‘that Illinois game’ is not an indicator of anything. Seemed like every shot went in. IIRC Oskar looked like Chris Mullin.

Reiber isn’t a rim protector or scorer at all. Charmin soft on D.

 

[ru-baby]

Charmin---such internet tough guy talk.

If you dont see a difference in rim protecting and how this year is when Cliff is out, I cant help you, and its noted of course that experience and knowledge will vary and explain why some don't understand what occurs or why.

 

[fluoxetine]

It's not internet tough guy talk, it's troll talk, and it gets more and more obvious as time goes on.

 

[Shelby65]

Sorry guys, your memory is way off. Teams attacked Reiber immediately with Cliff out, scoring on him at will.

He was much to weak to even get in the way. He didn’t defend any better than his shadow did. Pike couldn’t even leave him in the game many times.

He offered nothing at all in interior D. Rim protector hahaha.

He did hit a few 3s, his only contribution other than collecting fouls.

 

[RUBOB72]

Does Cliff have a simple drop step move? How difficult is it to get the ball into the lane … nobody on the team can deliver the dish pass ? It says a great deal about 5-6 guys on this current team. Maybe Pike can hold a walk on tryout … I would wager there are several former high school guards on campus who might be able to do that … if that is really the issue… as unproductive as PM was he could get the ball inside.

 

[Shelby65]

You’d think he’d have that but he always receives closer to the right corner, too far away (17 ft) for a useful drop step move. It’s a big reason he can’t finish and why the first few possessions every game last year when they tried that were a waste of time.

the only explanations for receiving too far away futilely is that he can’t fight for better interior position, or, he thinks he can take it to the hoop after a few dribbles…which he can’t

 

[RutgersChow]

Unfortunately, they're all in the NBA.

Except for the one we had.

 

[RutgersChow]

Agree w zap re difference in results.

Last year Cliff wanted to work on 3s to improve his nba stock. If he would put that out of his head and relish just being a college big man, he would definitely be valuable next year.

And somewhat related, this time could use 10-12 dean reiber mins a night. Theres such an absence of big man and rebounding

The Reiber that left here is better than Cliff is now