USNWR Law School Rankings Out

[NotInRHouse]

Local/B1G schools in top 100

4 Columbia
6 UPenn
7 NYU
10 Michigan
13 Northwestern
21 Minnesota
28 Iowa
30 tOSU
35 Illinois
37 Fordham
43 Indiana & Wisconsin
47 UMD
52 Yeshiva
56 Villanova
63 Temple
64 Cult & UConn
73 SHU
78 Drexel & Nebraska
84 St. John's
86 Rutgers
91 MSU
98 Brooklyn

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Obviously a very bad result for RU. The merger has not done very much. Only MSU worse in the B1G and they bought their law school not too long ago.

Also Drexel which only became ABA approved in late 00s/early 10s is now ahead of RU. How is that a school with no greater, and perhaps a lesser, reputation opens a brand new law school within our geographic footprint and passes us in a decade?

 

[Rutgers56]

Very frustrating. And I suspect there will be similar agitation when the undergraduate rankings come out again in September.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Very frustrating. And I suspect there will be similar agitation when the undergraduate rankings come out again in September.

Rutgers is the number 50 university in the world.

 

[Rutgers56]

Rutgers is the number 50 university in the world.

Yes, I know, you’ve parroted that about 400 times now. That’s one specific ranking that heavily leans on research as well as alumni receiving academia awards, neither of which truly assesses the quality of education or post-graduate success. The overwhelming majority of people rely on US News & World Report, as flawed as it may be in some respects. So admit it or not, that’s the one that matters most.

 

[knight_ru]

the law school admissions goals have changed in recent years as they are trying to be the school to open doors to the legal profession. This has meant a lower emphasis on lsat scores …. the other issue is that it also means a slightly lower bar pass rate right after graduation.

at least, that is what I have heard from some connected alumni I know.

 

[Caliknight]

So they dumbed it down like they are the entire university. Brilliant.

 

[Leonard23]

Local/B1G schools in top 100

4 Columbia
6 UPenn
7 NYU
10 Michigan
13 Northwestern
21 Minnesota
28 Iowa
30 tOSU
35 Illinois
37 Fordham
43 Indiana & Wisconsin
47 UMD
52 Yeshiva
56 Villanova
63 Temple
64 Cult & UConn
73 SHU
78 Drexel & Nebraska
84 St. John's
86 Rutgers
91 MSU
98 Brooklyn

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Obviously a very bad result for RU. The merger has not done very much. Only MSU worse in the B1G and they bought their law school not too long ago.

Also Drexel which only became ABA approved in late 00s/early 10s is now ahead of RU. How is that a school with no greater, and perhaps a lesser, reputation opens a brand new law school within our geographic footprint and passes us in a decade?

Awful ranking, but it improved 5 spots from last year's horrendous 91...🤷🏻‍♂️. Rutgers doesn't seem to care much about its law school. The Newark/Camden merger seems to be a failure, so it's time to close them, move it to New Brunswick and start over. At the very least, close Camden and try the B-School approach of New Brunswick and Newark, as that's thriving, even though it's silly to not have it all in New Brunswick.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Yes, I know, you’ve parroted that about 400 times now. That’s one specific ranking that heavily leans on research as well as alumni receiving academia awards, neither of which truly assesses the quality of education or post-graduate success. The overwhelming majority of people rely on US News & World Report, as flawed as it may be in some respects. So admit it or not, that’s the one that matters most.

To be fair, the undergrad rankings are much better, typically in the 50s/60s and smack dab in the upper echelon of the B1G.

 

[Leonard23]

I'm always amazed at how Alabama's law school ranks so highly (#25), while its undergrad is at #148. Some others with wide ranking differences between undergrad and law school:

- George Mason undergrad #148, law school #30,
- ASU undergrad #117, law school #30,
- Iowa undergrad #83, law school #28,
- BYU undergrad #79, law school #23,
- Utah undergrad#99, law school #37,
- Arizona undergrad #103, law school #45,
- Tennessee undergrad #103, law school #56,
- Houston undergrad #179, law school #58.

 

[Rutgers56]

To be fair, the undergrad rankings are much better, typically in the 50s/60s and smack dab in the upper echelon of the B1G.

Basically right in the middle. If you look just at ranking numbers, we’re 7th out of 10 with 7 schools in front of us and 5 behind us. Fact of the matter is, we should be closer to #50, if not in the high 40s, especially when you look at some of the schools ranked in those positions.


#9 Northwestern
#23 Michigan
#42 Wisconsin
#47 Illinois
#49 Ohio State
#49 Purdue
#59 Maryland
#63 Rutgers
#63 Penn State
#68 Indiana
#68 Minnesota
#83 Michigan State
#83 Iowa
#136 Nebraska

 

[NotInRHouse]

I'm always amazed at how Alabama's law school ranks so highly (#25), while its undergrad is at #148. Some others with wide ranking differences between undergrad and law school:

- George Mason undergrad #148, law school #30,
- ASU undergrad #117, law school #30,
- Iowa undergrad #83, law school #28,
- BYU undergrad #79, law school #23,
- Utah undergrad#99, law school #37,
- Arizona undergrad #103, law school #45,
- Tennessee undergrad #103, law school #56,
- Houston undergrad #179, law school #58.

There's less competition in those areas versus RU where there's what, 10 schools within 10 miles here. And some of those schools have put in massive investments (ASU one example). Some also have certain cache- Houston with plaintiff's bar, GMU ideological, etc.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Basically right in the middle. If you look just at ranking numbers, we’re 7th out of 10 with 7 schools in front of us and 5 behind us. Fact of the matter is, we should be closer to #50, if not in the high 40s, especially when you look at some of the schools ranked in those positions.


#9 Northwestern
#23 Michigan
#42 Wisconsin
#47 Illinois
#49 Ohio State
#49 Purdue
#59 Maryland
#63 Rutgers
#63 Penn State
#68 Indiana
#68 Minnesota
#83 Michigan State
#83 Iowa
#136 Nebraska

With the fractions of a point that separate schools the difference between us and Illinois is likely infinitesimal. Looking at SAT numbers we're right in the middle. I was surprised at how high tOSU and Maryland's are.

 

[Leonard23]

There's less competition in those areas versus RU where there's what, 10 schools within 10 miles here. And some of those schools have put in massive investments (ASU one example). Some also have certain cache- Houston with plaintiff's bar, GMU ideological, etc.

Idk, look at all the higher rated schools in VA, NY, PA and MA. Rutgers has to care and put in the effort.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Idk, look at all the higher rated schools in VA, NY, PA and MA. Rutgers has to care and put in the effort.

Oh, to be clear there's no doubt many if not most of RU's problems in these rankings are self inflicted.

The schools in the other states put in the work. Eg- cult moving their law school to the main campus (which BTW is further from any federal court than NB). When I was applying, Villanova and Temple were way closer to RU in the rankings.

Virginia has invested really heavily into higher ed generally. UVA, W&M, GMU, and they have undergrads like JMU drawing Northeastern students.

The NY law schools, it's interesting, not sure what's going on with Brooklyn. They never were considered "worse" than SJU but now it appears that way. But I group RU in here because at least when I was applying I got a free ride to SJU. If NJ kids are getting that these days, what will they pick? We're trapped.

BU seems to have jumped and BC stepped back, weird as they were always considered peers (though BC is still surrounded by schools to me that are peers that seemed to have lost out to how schools like Alabama are scheming the rankings).

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Yes, I know, you’ve parroted that about 400 times now. That’s one specific ranking that heavily leans on research as well as alumni receiving academia awards, neither of which truly assesses the quality of education or post-graduate success. The overwhelming majority of people rely on US News & World Report, as flawed as it may be in some respects. So admit it or not, that’s the one that matters most.

Rutgers should be promoting the heck out of being number 50 in the world— to teachers, guidance counselors, school principals, college fairs,TV ads, websites, press releases, campus tours. For both academics and athletics, always use the ranking that has Rutgers the highest.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

That law school ranking is a bad look…RU should be up there with the public ivys or the country…

 

[bigmatt718]

RU really needs to move the Law School to NB already. Screw the Camden and Newark locations as neither are doing anything to help their numbers.

 

[bigmatt718]

Basically right in the middle. If you look just at ranking numbers, we’re 7th out of 10 with 7 schools in front of us and 5 behind us. Fact of the matter is, we should be closer to #50, if not in the high 40s, especially when you look at some of the schools ranked in those positions.


#9 Northwestern
#23 Michigan
#42 Wisconsin
#47 Illinois
#49 Ohio State
#49 Purdue
#59 Maryland
#63 Rutgers
#63 Penn State
#68 Indiana
#68 Minnesota
#83 Michigan State
#83 Iowa
#136 Nebraska

US News numbers are a farce. They have Northeastern as a Top 50 school when they're probably 7th in the Boston metro area alone academically behind Harvard, MIT, Boston College, Boston U, Tufts, and Brandeis.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Very cool ! Eric LeGrand now a member benefit of the New Jersey State Bar Association.

 

[knight_ru]

I don’t think the NB solution is the answer. Prior to the merger they were both ranked higher years ago. I think funding and some clear direction is needed without interference from the campus chancellors.

curious to hear from @camdenlawprof on this topic.

 

[retired711]

I don’t think the NB solution is the answer. Prior to the merger they were both ranked higher years ago. I think funding and some clear direction is needed without interference from the campus chancellors.

curious to hear from @camdenlawprof on this topic.

I started to write a long response to this, but, since I've been retired for several years, I'm not sure that what I have to say would be valuable. So I'll pass except to say that you get what you pay for, and Rutgers has never shown the slightest interest in investing enough in legal education to improve its law school to even average Big Ten levels. I'm not sure why this is, but somehow legal education has never been a Rutgers priority.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I started to write a long response to this, but, since I've been retired for several years, I'm not sure that what I have to say would be valuable. So I'll pass except to say that you get what you pay for, and Rutgers has never shown the slightest interest in investing enough in legal education to improve its law school to even average Big Ten levels. I'm not sure why this is, but somehow legal education has never been a Rutgers priority.

It's especially odd because RU is generally considered incredibly strong in the "feeder" majors for law school (English, philosophy, Poli Sci, History) and even the ones that are more sought after today like engineering and pharma.

Also the B1G is a great law school conference, lol.

 

[retired711]

It's especially odd because RU is generally considered incredibly strong in the "feeder" majors for law school (English, philosophy, Poli Sci, History) and even the ones that are more sought after today like engineering and pharma.

Also the B1G is a great law school conference, lol.

Not even Ed Bloustein, himself a distinguished law professor at NYU, seemed very interested in the law schools. I'm sure it would be different if the law school were at New Brunswick or that (as with the business school) it had a big presence there. To the central administration, the Camden and Newark campuses are "out of sight and out of mind." But constructing a law school building in New Brunswick would be very expensive and would require a large continuing investment in legal education. I can't see it happening. Nevertheless, I was able to make a good career at Rutgers, and I'm glad for any contribution I made as a faculty member.

 

[bigmatt718]

Not even Ed Bloustein, himself a distinguished law professor at NYU, seemed very interested in the law schools. I'm sure it would be different if the law school were at New Brunswick or that (as with the business school) it had a big presence there. To the central administration, the Camden and Newark campuses are "out of sight and out of mind." But constructing a law school building is New Brunswick would be very expensive and would require a large contributing investment in legal education. I can't see it happening. Nevertheless, I was able to make a good career at Rutgers, and I'm glad for any contribution I made as a faculty member.

Maybe if RU took the law school seriously, they'd have more lawyers/politicans in Trenton to protect the school from the other dirtbags in Trenton.

 

[sct1111]

Rutgers Law School is more concerned with being diverse than they are with being a highly ranked law school.

 

[retired711]

Rutgers Law School is more concerned with being diverse than they are with being a highly ranked law school.

That was long true at Newark when it was a separate law school. It wasn't nearly as true at Camden. It's hard to say how things are going now that the two schools are one. I'm not really in enough contact to say.

In a way, the question is moot, as lawyers would say. There is no indication that central administration at Rutgers would invest in the schools even if the schools were single-mindedly devoted to being highly ranked.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Rutgers Law School is more concerned with being diverse than they are with being a highly ranked law school.

I am not sure if Newark still maintains the program where it would reduce grade/LSAT consideration for life experience...but in any case, ironically, the RU-NB undergrad population is more diverse than the law schools, and probably most law schools in America. There's *some* argument to be made that a move to NB could actually help with diversity.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Maybe if RU took the law school seriously, they'd have more lawyers/politicans in Trenton to protect the school from the other dirtbags in Trenton.

This is part of the problem for sure. It has weirdly gotten better in recent years ironically with the organic push to bring back GS.

The new state Senate leader (Scutari) has a masters from RU in education. I haven't been able to determine the campus for sure but I believe it is NB. So it could improve further.

 

[RUnTeX]

Maryland's law school is in Baltimore and UConn's is in Hartford apparently, both some 30+ miles from their undergrad flagship campuses. Neither city is at the top of desirable places but they appear to be making it work to some extent.

I know it won't ever happen but maybe Rutgers should just focus its resources on having a single-location law school between Newark or Camden, rather than both. I'm assuming NB/Pisc is a non-starter.

 

[retired711]

I am not sure if Newark still maintains the program where it would reduce grade/LSAT consideration for life experience...but in any case, ironically, the RU-NB undergrad population is more diverse than the law schools, and probably most law schools in America. There's *some* argument to be made that a move to NB could actually help with diversity.

There is one unitary admissions system, rather than each school having its own. Students are admitted and then asked which campus they want to attend. I don't know how admissions currently work. I don't think it would be exceptional for a law school to consider more than just grades and LSAT in making admissions decisions.

I think we'd all be better off if law schools required that students spend some time out in the world, if only a year, before going to law school. Business schools, including the top ones, do that. In that way, students acquire maturity as well as life experience. I could always tell the difference between students who came straight from college from those who had done something in between. The latter understood what a soft gig being a student is compared to working for a living and they understood the importance of being prepared and of taking their studies seriously.