It was said after the game the UB players were heard talking they thought they just played Delaware St. How pathetic has Hobbs and Ash brought this Rutgers Program down to.
Was talking to someone in Rutgers tickets sales
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It was said after the game the UB players were heard talking they thought they just played Delaware St. How pathetic has Hobbs and Ash brought this Rutgers Program down to.
That's not a sentence.
You need to be gone. You're nothing but an nj.com troll, you have no tangible connection to the program and I'll be solid money you never went to Rutgers.
How pathetic you call yourself RU#1fan. "It was said" and "players were heard". Was this at the Subway on Easton?
Get back to me on how great a team's fans are, and how well they support the team after they put together a couple of decades of RU level performance. Fans become loyal because the teams have been good, they don't pack the stadium for years and years of crap results and will the team to success.
Our last couple of decades. Or really most any couple you'd like to refer to. We've had spurts here and there of good, or at least decent play. But we haven't had a period of sustained success long enough to build loyalty.
People love to say, 'Look at the fans at Mich!' They rarely say, look at how much support MD, Pitt, Virginia, BC have... The fact of the matter is schools with incredibly loyal fans have those fans because they have had periods of incredible success.
Hi- I don't usually disagree with you. But put the argument in context. The numbskull we were arguing with was touting how Michigan doesn't tolerate losing and the way that Michigan does things. Any argument comparing Rutgers football to Michigan or Ohio State is ridiculous. But we were just fighting fire with fire.
But the point stands. Even when Michigan had a rough patch (by their standards) of 3 years under Hoke, fan support did not waiver. Some Rutgers fans, on the other hand, are like wilting daisies in an early Spring frost. On top of that, they feel the need to proclaim that they will teach Rutgers and the AD a lesson by not renewing their tickets.
Why compare our fans to Mich and not MD, or UNC or Virginia, or Pitt? Can you think of a reason why Michigan fans might be more loyal than the fans of those other schools?
Also, it wavered a bit.
Edit: But I agree, you also can't say Mich doesn't tolerate losing... We're not Mich and any comparison to them, fans, program, coaching is ridiculous.
Right. Because their fan support is stronger than ours.
Do they have a winning tradition? Absolutely. But they've sucked, in the past, as well. Their fans still support them. What they don't get is idiots like RU#1Fool, endlessly whining about absolutely everything, while having no stake whatsoever in the program.
When and for how long?
25% of our last 20 years we've won 1 or 2 games. And this has been a pretty good 20 year stretch.
Michigan last had a 2 win season in 1965.
You can build enough loyalty to sustain support during down years by winning over a long period of time. Mich did that. Neb did that. Penn St did that. That's why those teams have fan support that looks nothing like Virginia, MD, BC, UNC & RU.
In the ‘terrible Brady Hoke years’ Mich won11 games in a season and the Sugar Bowl. Even in their weaker RichRod years they went to the Gator Bowl. They’re a totally different animal. Our best season in the last 5 years would be considered a quasi-disaster there...but that never seems to get mentioned.
Joe P.
So now that you guys have done such a good job of depicting what an historical train wreck Rutgers football has been, don't you find it difficult to square that with the assertion that highly qualified candidates were lined up for the head coaching job?
When your budget to hire a coach is 2 million a year you are not getting a slam dunk hire. Ash is the lowest paid head coach in the BIG.
UMass and Liberty are in the schedule, so 3 wins means only 1 win against a real team. That is an incredibly low bar to meet
Its the bar Hobbs and Barchi have allowed to be set.
The fan base should not be settling for it and should continue to dump season tickets,not donate $$, until there is change and real commitment .
Which means the budget needs to be higher. This isn't rocket surgery, lol
Median salary in the B1G is about $4M - that's the pool of coaches you need be swimming in if you want to be "middle of the pack". 11 of 14 coaches made at least $3.5M last year - offering anything short of that is penny wise and pound foolish... and throwing the white flag on your football program.
Are you seriously arguing that Michigan fans have dealt with losing that is at all comparable to what Rutgers fans have endured?
- Rutgers has had 9 seasons with four wins or less since 2000
- Michigan has had 9 season with four wins or less since 1937. During the period from 1984 to 2007 they had ONE season that they only won 7 games, the rest were 8 or more.
They won't stop, but considering the posts below, it becomes less plausible people were lined up to take the job.
Excellent point.
How many candidates were lining up for $2 million/year on top of the disaster the previous coach left behind?
Agreed. Greg and PJ were not coming here for $2 million per year.
IIRC, Greg was making or would make $3.5 Million/year in 2012. When Greg bolted, RU paid Flood $700K/year. In Flood's final year, he made $1.25 million. And Barchi and the BOG gave Flood peanuts for assistant salaries.
Barchi and the BOG saved about $2.8 million in 2012 (difference between Greg's and Flood's salaries), another $2.6 million in 2013, and about another $5 million over the next two seasons. All told, RU saved about $10 million in salary for the head coach of football.
You get what you pay for.
There is a difference how Michigan and Rutgers approach dealing with losing coaches. Michigan will address their problems head on. Rutgers refuse or are not willing to make hard choices. So it's understandable why Michigan fans have no problem in continuing to support the program even while they're down. The same can't be said about Rutgers. As long as Rutgers leadership doesn't respect the fans or the supporters of the program why should they blindly follow them? This is where the disconnect comes between Rutgers leadership and the fans.
There is, as you are clearly aware, a difference between thinking the coach is inadequate to the job and support of the program.
I don't think Ash is the guy, long-term.
But I'm also old enough and experienced enough to recall that most of this board wanted Schiano fired after Year 3. He turned it around. I think, as others have said, Ash should get this year to show some improvement and, if he doesn't, change should be made.
And I also believe, as do others, that Hobbs understands this.
So, in summary, I believe that I have a mature outlook and a realistic understanding of the situation. Therefore, I needn't be subjected to the repetitive mutterings of morons like RU#1Turd.
maybe see someone for your anger issues when you dont agree with others?
Might help you live a more stable healthy life.
Give it a try.
I understand your sentiment, but I do think it is fair to put some of it in perspective.
1. Rutgers could have most non-P5 coaches in any given year. This includes the AAC. They can also choose from almost any coordinator any year. $2 million is far more than the coaches in the Mountain West make for example, and that doesn't even get to the MAC or CUSA. They're not all home runs, but some are. Implying that no one is interested in the job is not fair in my view.
2. The problem with Hobbs wasn't that he chose Ash, it is that he chose Ash and gave him a contract that he can't buy himself out of. None of the choices for Rutgers were sure things.
3. Hobbs is trying to buy time. I do think it was a tough decision for him last November that gets much easier this year. Even if the buyout is large this fall, he can really sell the "we gave this guy plenty of time." He is buying time because conference revenues jump from $28.6 million in FY 2020 (which starts in 3 months) to $43.7 million in FY 2021.
4. I think most reasonable people would see that Hobbs was indeed in a predicament last fall. Setting aside that a good portion of that was of Hobbs' own creation, it was reasonable to keep Ash and it would have been reasonable to let him go. It's a close call. Hobbs is betting that he can get fans to come back either when (i) Ash starts succeeding; or (ii) a new coach is hired. I personally think he likely underestimated the difficulty of achieving that and also was not completely unbiased in his decision making as he had incentive to justify his earlier decisions regarding Ash. With that said, it was not unreasonable.
5. I think Ash is learning, but he isn't getting the benefit of the doubt because he isn't very fan friendly and seems to make a lot of unforced errors both on and off the field. He seems to create controversy where there need not be any. This is one area where Schiano likely bought himself an extra year of good will. Ash just didn/t doesn't have the same skill. He is improving but man did he set the bar low for himself.
I don’t remember that at all. Most people had never heard of Ash. Other than a few Rutgers-can-never-do-any-wrong, which is about 35% of this board, most people were wait and see
He's on ignore, as is BlockR, but often threads are not easy to read as people are responding to them.
The notion that Hobbs is incapable of hiring a football coach is ludicrous. He probably realizes that he needs to do things differently in the next football coach hire.
As a related aside, I was looking at some University of Virginia history. As many know, Craig Littlepage, our former head basketball coach, who was not a good basketball coach, went on to UVa and become their AD from 2001-17.
UVa reached the pinnacle of success in men's basketball last night. They are also doing well in football. The head coaches of both programs were hired by Littlepage.
But his first basketball hire, Dave Letao, was not a great hire. In his final 2 seasons, UVa was 5-11 and 4-12 in ACC play.
Littlepage's next hire, Tony Bennett (terrific singer too), has been a home run. He started slowly his first two seasons, with 5-11 and 7-9 records in the ACC, but since the 2011-12 season, he has had UVa rolling.
Littlepage's first football hire, Mike London, was 27-46 (14-34) over six seasons (2010-15). Mike London had one winning season in 2011, and after that it was 4-8, 2-10, 5-7 and 4-8.
After the 5-7 2014 season, Littlepage said:
"It was important to see improvement in our football program this season," Littlepage said. "I've seen signs of progress in many areas. Through the staff changes made over the last two years, we are better at teaching the game and in the overall development of the student-athletes. We also continue to notice the commitment by this group of coaches and student-athletes to their academic and community responsibilities.
"The staff has re-focused its recruiting efforts to emphasize the need to attract student-athletes capable of helping the program compete at a high level in the expanded Atlantic Coast Conference," Littlepage added. "We are seeing many of these student-athletes on the field right now and the staff continues to have success on the recruiting trail. We will continue to support the program in their efforts to maximize their recruiting success.
"It's important for each of our sports programs to continue to show progress and follow a plan to compete for conference championships and in postseason competition to support the department's goals," Littlepage said. "I trust the plan Mike has in place and believe his leadership provides the best opportunity for Virginia football to be successful in the future."
https://virginiasports.com/news/2014/11/26/Head_Coach_Mike_London_to_Return_for_2015_Season.aspx
London was fired after the following season. (I suspect Ash may be on the same trajectory).
Littlepage hired Bronco Mendenall (Salary $3.4 million (not a paltry $2 Million).
While Mendenhall's first season was terrible at 2-10 (1-7), he had them bowling in 2017, and got them to 8-5 (4-4) in 2018, with 2 losses in OT and a 20-16 loss to Indiana.
Where is this going? I don't know.[banana][banana]
Oh, here's where it is going. Rutgers is one coaching hire away from turning it around. I doubt Ash will get it done. But if RU is going to do it right, they better open up the checkbook and get an experienced coach. Mike Leach!
By the way, UVa basically negotiated a buyout and for London to resign, which saved them $500,000. If Ash ultimately leaves, one would hope RU will try to do the same with him.
https://www.streakingthelawn.com/20...ns-buyout-details-virginia-cavaliers-football
Let's put this here to keep things in perspective:
Rutgers distributions from Big Ten:
2015 $8,645,986
2016 $9,043,606
2017 $9,442,178
2018 $23,841,721 ($9,841,721 + $14,000,000 loan)
2019 $26,242,246 ($10,242,246 + $13,000,000 loan + $3,000,000 advance)
2020 $28,643,801 [FY 2020 starts on July 1, 2019]
2021 $43,705,600
2022 $46,029,566
2023 $48,941,204
2024 $50,970,215
2025 $53,055,193
2026 $56,178,379
2027 $65,238,659 [First year of full share; all loans and advances paid off]
2028 $67,195,819
2029 $69,211,694
Rutgers distributions from Big Ten:
2015 $8,645,986
2016 $9,043,606
2017 $9,442,178
2018 $23,841,721 ($9,841,721 + $14,000,000 loan)
2019 $26,242,246 ($10,242,246 + $13,000,000 loan + $3,000,000 advance)
2020 $28,643,801 [FY 2020 starts on July 1, 2019]
2021 $43,705,600
2022 $46,029,566
2023 $48,941,204
2024 $50,970,215
2025 $53,055,193
2026 $56,178,379
2027 $65,238,659 [First year of full share; all loans and advances paid off]
2028 $67,195,819
2029 $69,211,694
So in reality,the new HC would have to have a somewhat back-loaded contract with incentives.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/breaking-news-hc-might-be-announce-soon-and-its-ash.57650/
There were doubters (there always are). Remember the NJ.com article (I linked it in another thread, maybe this one) was overwhelmingly positive).
The reality also is that Hobbs could hold on to Ash for one more year, lose an additional $3 million in ticket revenue, and not affect his bottom line much (especially if basketball revenue increases). He likely looked at these numbers and figured things are just so much better for him if he can keep Ash one more year, so that's what he did.
minus the bottom line 'dollars' lost,Hobbs needed to understand the impact on recruiting.With another year of losing,how that effects the recruit cycle.
Your posts are always 100% solid. #5 cannot be emphasized enough. Ash has shot himself in the foot so many times with RU fans, it is a minor miracle he can walk.
This is a two way street, and I think even more than winning, commitment from the administration encourages faith in the fanbase. When the fans and the administration are in it to win it together, progress happens at any program. We see it with Iowa State, we saw it yesterday with Texas Tech, we saw it with TCU's rise in the 2010s, hell, we saw it ourselves with Greg here.
But the administration has to take that first step, they are the product after all, not the fans. If they just show a little something I think the positive reaction and giving from the fans will be ten fold.
The only time in my lifetime this situation has existed at Rutgers is when Greg Schiano put a gun to the administration's head and forced them to care. Wins would be great, and certainly help. But the administration visibly giving a damn would honestly matter more to me. Everything we've witnessed since Greg left is the exact opposite of that. It has been a one way street at Rutgers for a very long time now.
But the administration has to take that first step, they are the product after all, not the fans. If they just show a little something I think the positive reaction and giving from the fans will be ten fold.
The only time in my lifetime this situation has existed at Rutgers is when Greg Schiano put a gun to the administration's head and forced them to care. Wins would be great, and certainly help. But the administration visibly giving a damn would honestly matter more to me. Everything we've witnessed since Greg left is the exact opposite of that. It has been a one way street at Rutgers for a very long time now.
Aren't all contracts essentially "backloaded" in the sense that salaries of most contracts increase with each passing year....same for tv contracts etc.... We just see the average and talk about that but a contract is increasing as time passes.
I suspect the next coach, if there is one, will likely get in the high 2s to mid 3M range. That is becoming the norm these days even for first time coaches (ADs don't know how to control themselves).
Me I never complain about the money, nor do I think increasing B10 financial shares are some sort of panacea as I've said many times here. The financial situation is what it is and I try to figure out "realistic" scenarios of who could be possible and there are always people...it may mean someone a little deeper in the mid majors or a fired coach, an assistant a little more green than you'd like, etc...but you can still find quality candidates worthy of an opportunity. It's not that we're some premiere job or that there aren't other P5 jobs in competition in any given year but there are still always solid candidates out there worthy of a shot.
Some excellent conversations here and I enjoy reading your posts and those of others as well.
YourUVA post above was quite interesting btw. I had in my mind written off their football staff after Year 1 as it did not seem like Bronco was a good fit for them culturally or geographically, coming from BYU. But, he has made it work at least somewhat as you've pointed out. It's a good reminder that turnarounds (getting from horrible to average) need not take half a decade.
