I won't claim it means nothing. I'll state the simple truth: We don't know what it means. Presumably, only Tim Curley knows what it means.
Watching the Happy Valley film
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I won't claim it means nothing. I'll state the simple truth: We don't know what it means. Presumably, only Tim Curley knows what it means.
Time for me to stop arguing about this and let your statement stand without an argument. This issue has been going on for years and the arguments about it hasn't changed the truth in any way .
Sometimes the truth might be known, but can't be absolutely proven by anyone that wasn't involved.
Also those involved might get punished if it is proven, so they make sure the truth don't get out.
If that is the case then go after the police and the DPW with pitchforks as they should be included as well. You should also throw the parent in the mix as well.
I mean, I'm as open to conversation about this as anyone but you're theory is not making it look worse for Paterno, it is simply including more people in the mess. Reality is that I will have a hard time believing that the buck stopped with Graham Spanier. No way.
What the TTFP fans will never, ever answer is that why after Joe "told his boss" did Sandusky stroll campus for 11 years with impunity while Joe didn't even follow up one time....
It seems like a "man of honor" who was told a child was raped in his facility would have followed up within a few weeks if not days of telling his boss and ask what actions were taken by the authorities...certainly by the time he saw Sandusky on campus again...and again...and again...
But he never followed up, because he was not a man of honor, he was a thug interested in saving his own hide.
If Joe had just a few days after not seeing the admin move called 911 and said "Hi this is Joe Paterno reporting the rape of a child" the program would have been set back one season at most. Before social media it would have died and the only story would have been Joe sticking his neck out for children.
That is the "hindsight".
Before we even get into Gricar or Joe perjuring himself before the grand jury, we have a felony that was surpressed and no one has answered for that. Yeah maybe "misprision" of a felony is no longer a crime but that doesn't make it not a disgrace.
It seems like a "man of honor" who was told a child was raped in his facility would have followed up within a few weeks if not days of telling his boss and ask what actions were taken by the authorities...certainly by the time he saw Sandusky on campus again...and again...and again...
But he never followed up, because he was not a man of honor, he was a thug interested in saving his own hide.
If Joe had just a few days after not seeing the admin move called 911 and said "Hi this is Joe Paterno reporting the rape of a child" the program would have been set back one season at most. Before social media it would have died and the only story would have been Joe sticking his neck out for children.
That is the "hindsight".
Before we even get into Gricar or Joe perjuring himself before the grand jury, we have a felony that was surpressed and no one has answered for that. Yeah maybe "misprision" of a felony is no longer a crime but that doesn't make it not a disgrace.
Those saying that we should move on from this situation are just wrong. It's Child Rape that we're talking about here. It should never be forgotten what was allowed to transpire at penn st, nor how it was handled. It's simply a situation which is unforgivable, those who want to forget the past are destined to repeat it. I'm sorry penn st. fans, but this is a black eye which you must carry to your grave. Time may heal some wounds but Child Rape simply isn't one of them. This heinous crime occurred on your watch even if you claim innocence. No one can deny this.
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I believed I shared my thoughts on this very subject earlier in the thread. I believe Joe Paterno felt the administration would handle McQueary's report in the appropriate fashion. We don't know what to what degree at this point, but they let him down, if my hypothesis is correct. Again, that definitely pulls Paterno down a few rungs on the man of honor ladder, but it also takes a wild leap to suggest he didn't follow up because he had ulterior motives. None of the evidence points to that.
You continue to make assumptions about what Paterno was told by McQueary, whose story changes with the wind. Further, Sandusky was not convicted of raping that child. I'm not deflecting; as I said before, in such a tangled web of a scandal, I just believe in having the facts correct while arguing your position. FWIW, I don't believe the program would have been set back at all had Sandusky been arrested in the early 2000s. He was a former assistant at that point, and I fail to see what impact it would have had on the actual football program at that time.
This is ironic, as most Penn Staters I know have no interest in moving on. In fact, it's the opposite. Count me among the many thousands of alums who hope all of the trials on the periphery of how the Sandusky situation was handled go to trial. Then we can all learn what really happened, and what really did not happen, or at least learn a hell of a lot more than we know now.
I can't help but laugh at the idea that this is somehow a "black eye" that I'm taking to my grave because I dare be a Penn State alum and season ticket holder. Take sports and things a little too seriously, don't you? Maybe we can bury you with a basketball signed by Mike Rice, or some of the stuff your secondary stole last fall. (And before anyone jumps down my throat for comparing these crimes to sexual abuse of a child to throwing basketballs at college kids, I'm not. Rather, I'm just pointing out how absurd the poster's premise is as it relates to Penn Staters not named Curley, Schultz, Spanier, Paterno, Sandusky, McQueary, etc.)
These are all men put into positions of power by your proud institution. So if your not taking this incident to your grave then when is it OK for alumni and fans to forget about it in your estimation. Is it OK to forget about Child Rape which occurred on penn st. property in 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 30 yrs.? Because in my opinion the answer is never, but with your statement you obviously feel there is a point in time when it's OK to forget. Yes I take Child Rape seriously sports not so much.
This will be my last post on the subject for now, as I can sense the conversation, and I use that term loosely, is heading off the tracks quickly (shocker!). So let me break this down for you slowly:
I didn't put anyone in power. And that's what we're talking about here, right? How I should be branded with a Navy Blue letter because I allowed the Sandusky scandal to occur.
I'm sure I'll think about the Sandusky scandal and all of its moving parts for a long time, probably the rest of my life, or at the very least until we learn how he was able to operate for so long. What I won't be doing is taking it to my grave as some sort of black mark on my life's resume, which is an absurd proposition.
Everyone should be diligent about child abuse. If the person so many people thought was running one of the best charities around for under-privileged kids can be quietly abusing them for years, who else in your personal or professional life might be? Who else in your town, or on your street? As I said earlier, I'm not trying to "move on" or "forget." Just the opposite. I want every trial to happen. I want every major player, from the former governor to Curley, Spanier and Schultz, to the members of the 2011 PSU Board of Trustees, to Freeh, to answer for their actions or, when appropriate, the lack thereof.
Unfortunately, I don't think that day will ever come.
I didn't put anyone in power. And that's what we're talking about here, right? How I should be branded with a Navy Blue letter because I allowed the Sandusky scandal to occur.
I'm sure I'll think about the Sandusky scandal and all of its moving parts for a long time, probably the rest of my life, or at the very least until we learn how he was able to operate for so long. What I won't be doing is taking it to my grave as some sort of black mark on my life's resume, which is an absurd proposition.
Everyone should be diligent about child abuse. If the person so many people thought was running one of the best charities around for under-privileged kids can be quietly abusing them for years, who else in your personal or professional life might be? Who else in your town, or on your street? As I said earlier, I'm not trying to "move on" or "forget." Just the opposite. I want every trial to happen. I want every major player, from the former governor to Curley, Spanier and Schultz, to the members of the 2011 PSU Board of Trustees, to Freeh, to answer for their actions or, when appropriate, the lack thereof.
Unfortunately, I don't think that day will ever come.
And yet you keep reading and referring to my posts. Guess you read a lot of vomit bags.
Hey, I'll admit it, when we played PSU last year we didn't just lose, we got abused like a 10 year old boy in a Penn State locker room.
That is very strained logic. He was told of an incident that on its best day was still cause for alarm, no matter how you term it.
And, to act like the onus was not on him to do something is ridiculous. He told his boss and he did nothing.
How many school employees are going to get away with "I told my boss about a serious incident involving a child, observed nothing was done and saw the individual on campus repeatedly but had told my boss so assumed everything was OK?" Nobody. That is ridiculous. That is not how leaders behave. Arguing a violation of chain in command in that situation is absurd.
We don't need to make assumptions of what McQueary told Paterno. All we have to do is listen to what Paterno said he was told by McQueary.
"It was of sexual nature. I'm not sure exactly what it was. I didn't push Mike ... because he was obviously very upset,"
So we know for sure that Paterno understood it was not merely "horseplay". That at the very least, the very least, Paterno understood from McQueary that it was something of a sexual nature between a grown man, and a child. What? We don't know exactly. But it involved some sort of sexual activity.
This , to me, is the single most damning thing in regards to Pterno, who was thought to have been of the very highest morals. He clearly was told enough by McQueary to have Sandusky reported....but when "Old Main" was prepared to report him, Paterno had a conversation with 'Old Main" in which Paterno objected to them turning Sandusky in.....and the end result was that Sandusky was NEVER reported.
There is simply no other reasonable conclusion you can come to.
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Obsessed drones like Howie81 and PSUPaly scour message boards, comment sections of articles, and YouTube in search any negative threads concerning PSU.
They then go into "Operation Facelift". Their plan is simple... They infiltrate the thread and take control of the narrative. They do it by:
A) attempting to convince you that
EVERYONE is lying.
B) provide disinformation and pass it off as fact.
C) attack the messenger's credibility, whether it's the poster or the author of a negative article.
D) if all else fails, accuse them of being jealous...
You have to understand something,
life as a nitter has been a bitch the last 5 years...
Everything they believed in all their lives has been exposed as a lie...The Grand Experiment turns out to be a myth... Saintly JoePa turns out to be the Devil... Rioting on campus...No longer can they hold their noses in the air and look down on other schools with arrogance... It kills them...
Other schools in the Big Ten Conference not only laugh at them, but now they're $hit stomping them on the field...Their self esteem has been shattered... All this bad karma is beating on them relentlessly... They spend their miserable days revising history to save the Paterno legacy even at the expense of others....Hoping that one day all of this will turn out to be a lie so they can go back to being arrogant, condesending, and holier than thou again...
Unfortunately for them the bad karma will continue....LOL!
BTW... You so called Rutgers fans that are siding with the PSU drones need to clam up. You are playing right into those jackals hands. They want you to shut up. They want you to change the subject. They want you to agree with them... This is your message board. Don't let them control the narrative...
They then go into "Operation Facelift". Their plan is simple... They infiltrate the thread and take control of the narrative. They do it by:
A) attempting to convince you that
EVERYONE is lying.
B) provide disinformation and pass it off as fact.
C) attack the messenger's credibility, whether it's the poster or the author of a negative article.
D) if all else fails, accuse them of being jealous...
You have to understand something,
life as a nitter has been a bitch the last 5 years...
Everything they believed in all their lives has been exposed as a lie...The Grand Experiment turns out to be a myth... Saintly JoePa turns out to be the Devil... Rioting on campus...No longer can they hold their noses in the air and look down on other schools with arrogance... It kills them...
Other schools in the Big Ten Conference not only laugh at them, but now they're $hit stomping them on the field...Their self esteem has been shattered... All this bad karma is beating on them relentlessly... They spend their miserable days revising history to save the Paterno legacy even at the expense of others....Hoping that one day all of this will turn out to be a lie so they can go back to being arrogant, condesending, and holier than thou again...
Unfortunately for them the bad karma will continue....LOL!
BTW... You so called Rutgers fans that are siding with the PSU drones need to clam up. You are playing right into those jackals hands. They want you to shut up. They want you to change the subject. They want you to agree with them... This is your message board. Don't let them control the narrative...
Drama much?
Sandusky is in jail, Paterno is dead and the other people are awaiting trial. Not saying I don't feel bad for the victims, because I do. That being said, if you think my life revolves around Penn State and what has happened over the past five years, I can only tell you it doesn't.
BTW, if someone wants to agree with someone else's opinion, so be it. Quit trying to act as the thought police.
No drama, just calling the way it is.
Next time you see a negative article from a national publication concern PSU on line or a thread on a message board critical of PSU, watch and see what happens. The M.O. Is the same every time.
You will see obsessed PSU fans doing exactly as I described. See with your own eyes. It's not a conspiracy theory, it is done blindly with each PSU fan doing the same thing... Instead of ignoring it, they make it worse...
"Life as a Nitter has been a bitch the last five years"
Like I said, that's pretty dramatic. Life has been just fine.
Wow, you probably think Germany won the war too. That's how messed up you are on this.
How long did it take you to think up that retort? Did you have help or did you come up with it all by yourself? But yeah, Rutgers was bitch slapped by one of PSU's historically more mediocre teams. Wow, what will happen in a year or two when PSU is riding on all cylinders again? You should shudder to think.
The whole thing is beyond boring at this point. We all know they got a the biggest gift imaginable when the bowl ban and scholarship restrictions got lifted. It's still total horses&^t. They figuratively got away with murder.
I just want to beat them on the field already. It's way past time.
I just want to beat them on the field already. It's way past time.
Stop your freakin' bias for 2 seconds. They got lifted because the NCAA was legally in a bad position. They never should have existed in the first place.
Yes, because the NCAA shouldn't be allowed to penalize an athletic program for engaging in a criminal conspiracy.
LOL. Write a letter to Mark Emmert and ask him why the sanctions went away. Please post his response here.
Okay, let's try this. Charges against Sandusky, were indeed, criminal, and as such, the NCAA had no grounds to do anything.
The fact that it was not addressed by a whole HOST of Sandusky's superiors for fear that it might tarnish the name of PSU football was a cover up, or what's that other phrase . . . . oh, yeah, LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
The fact that the NCAA reduced sanctions means that Emmert has no b@lls. I don't know that he would want us posting that here.
The fact that it was not addressed by a whole HOST of Sandusky's superiors for fear that it might tarnish the name of PSU football was a cover up, or what's that other phrase . . . . oh, yeah, LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
The fact that the NCAA reduced sanctions means that Emmert has no b@lls. I don't know that he would want us posting that here.
reduced?......nope, the sanctions against the athletic program were completely eradicated....like it never happened......only took 18 months too...not bad.
Oh, you must be so proud. I guess nothing happened then. Dream on.
Do you read the stuff you type, or when crap comes into your head you let it go?
This is not a stain on PSU football, other than Sandusky, there was no direct involvement, but it makes your UNIVERSITY look like a bunch of morons. Too many people did nothing, and kids' lives were destroyed because of their inaction, but hell, party in the streets, the sanctions were lifted.
Your words: "This is not a stain on PSU football, other than Sandusky, there was no direct involvement..." This is why the sanctions were correctly erased.
One can be glad that unjust penalties were eradicated and still feel sympathy for Sandusky's victims. This is not an either/or proposition.
my goodness....have a drink, smoke a spliff....gosh
you wanna blame football for what happened w/good ole Jerry, go right ahead....I don't care....geez.
and all i said was the sanctions were not reduced...instead, they were eradicated.
so, ya know, the courts felt differently....just sayin......consequently, I made a small, yet important correction to your diatribe, is all......no biggie:)
PSUPALY said: ↑
reduced?......nope, the sanctions against the athletic program were completely eradicated....like it never happened......only took 18 months too...not bad.
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guess you feel like this :
edited emotion out because might be considered in poor tast knowing Penn St enabled a child molester
reduced?......nope, the sanctions against the athletic program were completely eradicated....like it never happened......only took 18 months too...not bad.
____________________________________________________________________
guess you feel like this :
edited emotion out because might be considered in poor tast knowing Penn St enabled a child molester
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PSUPALY said: ↑
reduced?......nope, the sanctions against the athletic program were completely eradicated....like it never happened......only took 18 months too...not bad.
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guess you feel like this :
haha...i'm laughing because I trust your wit, MADHAT.....but unfortunately, I can't see your image....not sure why.
How do you punish a school for lack of control without punishing the program that the administrators put on a pedestal? So, in your mind, NOTHING should have happened because those in charge didn't do enough.
How about this, when their trials end, if they are found guilty of any sort of malfeasance, we institute the Death Penalty to the program? You shouldn't get a pass, and you should be more outraged that your school leaders put you in that position. I'm sure Sandusky was a really good coach, I'm also sure that Paterno could have gotten a very good replacement when he knew Sandusky was a sick man. For those that say, Sandusky wasn't even coaching at the time; I can only say there was probably good reason to keep an eye on him. To defend oneself, sometimes people tell tales.
You don't have to agree with any of this, but praising the lifting of the sanctions puts PSU football first and the victims second. That's how you got into trouble in the first place.
Or the NCAA's leadership didn't have the courage of their conviction and rather than fight for what was right, allowed themselves to be bullied by a very strong opposition and having other battles
that were draining them financially enough to allow Penn St to walk away from their sactions.
Guess the general emotion of the cult now is:
edited emotion out because it might be considered making a joke out of Penn St covering up for their Child Molesting Coach Emeritus
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edited image out because it might be considered making light of what Penn St covered up.but it's in your reply and I think you just don't want to admit seeing it.
That's alright , I feel bad posting it in such a manner because of Sandusky's victims that wouldn't have been if the Penn St leadership ( including its HC) took steps to make sure a child molester was arrested instead of taking steps to protect their football program at all costs.
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