Why is Seton Hall so good?
- Thread starter rufan4ever
- Start date
Consistency allows the coaching staff to game plan better because they know what they can expect out of players. Kiss today was an example of our inconsistency. He's our number three scorer, but he gets two points and no field goals against an inferior opponent at home.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Okay ..pay attention as this is really simple..
1. Ad a shu fan leave pi kill alone. He is excellent but it will take you five years to get out of the pit you put you selves into with your last AD and coach.
2. Willard is a really good defensive coach but nobody notices. Recruits tough kids from tough neighborhoods but always smart kids first.
3. BE is basketball first and you are football first and I will be dead before you are ever a national football power house ergo you look like a lose all fall and somehow think that is going away because bball season is here?
4. Playing in a great area a like prudential is a huge recruiting advantage. Students don't make or break a program alumni do. People showing up in the crowd you want at least half grey. They show up because shu bball is the religion just behind catholic.
5. Heritage...one of the highest winning percentages in the ncaa tournament. I will wait while you go look it up. 2 members of the nba half century team.
An astoundingly there have only been 9 seasons in the history of the nba when someone from shu was not playing in theeague.
If you leave pike alone you will be fine. Given ru past history I am betting you fire him after next season.
One last piece ...you do know that next year is already a huge upgrade in talent and depth at shu ..right...you do know that we will br much bigger and much deeper than this year right..remember the guy from florida that blocked.. what was it 7 or 8 shots against you last year...he is our starting center next year and they have put him in a weight train program to add 25 lbs of muscle on his 6 11 frame. We are going to be a knight mare for you and everybody else next season.
I really hope you are patiemt...shu rutgers hasn't been a real series in 3 decades.
Don't screw it up
1. Ad a shu fan leave pi kill alone. He is excellent but it will take you five years to get out of the pit you put you selves into with your last AD and coach.
2. Willard is a really good defensive coach but nobody notices. Recruits tough kids from tough neighborhoods but always smart kids first.
3. BE is basketball first and you are football first and I will be dead before you are ever a national football power house ergo you look like a lose all fall and somehow think that is going away because bball season is here?
4. Playing in a great area a like prudential is a huge recruiting advantage. Students don't make or break a program alumni do. People showing up in the crowd you want at least half grey. They show up because shu bball is the religion just behind catholic.
5. Heritage...one of the highest winning percentages in the ncaa tournament. I will wait while you go look it up. 2 members of the nba half century team.
An astoundingly there have only been 9 seasons in the history of the nba when someone from shu was not playing in theeague.
If you leave pike alone you will be fine. Given ru past history I am betting you fire him after next season.
One last piece ...you do know that next year is already a huge upgrade in talent and depth at shu ..right...you do know that we will br much bigger and much deeper than this year right..remember the guy from florida that blocked.. what was it 7 or 8 shots against you last year...he is our starting center next year and they have put him in a weight train program to add 25 lbs of muscle on his 6 11 frame. We are going to be a knight mare for you and everybody else next season.
I really hope you are patiemt...shu rutgers hasn't been a real series in 3 decades.
Don't screw it up
I wouldn't get carried away with Maryland today, it's being hyped as SHUs biggest non conference road win in a very long time.
And SHU and RU are not far apart IMO, there's very little separating the programs, RU is just very green right now. And my biggest item i explained would happen is the gradual decline of the Big East and the B1G gettint stronger. That has clearly 1000% taken place.
RU is significantly better in Year 3 vs Year 1 and that's without Sanders. And RU is the weakest of the 14 teams in the B1G, yet I looked up at the scoreboard at the Rock and it was a 3 point game under 4 minutes left. My guess would be if you aren't blowing out the last place team in the B1G, or losing to RU last year, SHU would be in a dogfight in 20 B1G games.
The reason that's also 100% true is because the Big East as a league may not offer the usual 7 to 8 opportunities for a resume win. Kentucky was an epic performance any RU fan would die for, but the next 2 months or so in the Big East offers a lot of uncertainty as far as strength of resume, otherwise, why hype the road win vs Maryland??
I have disagreed with a lot of Maryland fans all over Turgeon on his coaching and overall program because I just felt Maryland was always going to be right better. But not seeing today's game tied up with the holidays and family, what happens if Maryland isn't 12 and 8 in the B1G and a strong 6 or 7 seed??
I think Maryland will rebound and do well, but if they don't (and reading a couple of blogs on Maryland, today's game isn't a surprise for their fans), what exactly are we looking at.
I am very confident if the discussion is RU vs SHU with both staffs in place, RU closes the gap on the court, in recruiting and overall program. It will be difficult to argue RU not playing a much deeper and talented league top to bottom, so the road ahead is going to be tough.
On the other hand, i always maintained that moving on from the group of seniors was addition by subtraction at SHU. The chemistry was bad and the team underachieved IMO. This years version of SHU is fun to watch, they play better team basketball, the players know their roles 1 through 7 (minus Thompson, who doesn't fit on a lot of rosters around the country).
It's much more than a RU or SHU discussion, although my guess is RU holds serve again at the RAC next year.....and my hope is in 2020, the game between both schools at SHU will be the best battle of 2 programs on the same footing in talent from upperclassmen to underclassmen for both schools.
RU playing in a deeper and more talented league is this year.
Would you call the Big Ten more talented and deeper last year ?
No one has any clue what next year brings------numerous factors.
Seton Hall has been to five tournaments in the last 15 years, never higher than a six seed and never past the second round.
In the entire college basketball landscape, that's not "so good," it's pretty average. It's roughly the same performance as Cal (seven tournaments, no S16) or Georgia (four tournaments, no S16) or Clemson (five tournaments, one S16) and nobody would mistake them for basketball powerhouses.
The difference between them and us, at least lately, is that after they hired the wrong coach (Gonzalez) that they the right one. After Rutgers hired the wrong coach (Hill) we hired another wrong coach... and then an epically wrong coach.
I'd like to think Pikiell is the right coach but it's obvious he needs to figure out offense, whether that means through coaching or through recruiting.
Our problem has been the combination of failures in player retention, player development, coaching consistency, and some bad luck. Seton Hall has succeeded in all of those areas lately.
In the entire college basketball landscape, that's not "so good," it's pretty average. It's roughly the same performance as Cal (seven tournaments, no S16) or Georgia (four tournaments, no S16) or Clemson (five tournaments, one S16) and nobody would mistake them for basketball powerhouses.
The difference between them and us, at least lately, is that after they hired the wrong coach (Gonzalez) that they the right one. After Rutgers hired the wrong coach (Hill) we hired another wrong coach... and then an epically wrong coach.
I'd like to think Pikiell is the right coach but it's obvious he needs to figure out offense, whether that means through coaching or through recruiting.
Our problem has been the combination of failures in player retention, player development, coaching consistency, and some bad luck. Seton Hall has succeeded in all of those areas lately.
I don’t want to get into a pissing contest, but Hawk, this post is an epic stretch. It’s going to be a down year for the BE, only because the number of guys that entered the draft last year. The BE will still get five bids.
You are on our board and in addition to Obiagu being eligible next year, you know the two guards that are likely to be coming here. (Only Nzei graduates), so explain how “closing the gap” happens. And that senior team had three consecutive NCAA trips; two without Whitehead who was the cornerstone of the class.
It kills me to say this ... but through the years, Seton Hall has landed more city ballers and Hurley players. As Al McGuire said ...
“My rule was I wouldn’t recruit a kid if he had grass in front of his house. That’s not my world. My world was a cracked sidewalk.”
Al McGuire in his own words:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...2017/02/11/al-mcguire-his-own-words/97538530/
“My rule was I wouldn’t recruit a kid if he had grass in front of his house. That’s not my world. My world was a cracked sidewalk.”
Al McGuire in his own words:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...2017/02/11/al-mcguire-his-own-words/97538530/
The league being down has nothing to do with SHUs 2 additions. The Florida State transfer will help defensively, which is all that is needed. The Big East defaults into 5 bids this year because the bubble is what it will be, a bunch of very evenly matched resumes. Any BE team with a 10-8 league record should dance.
Why is the B1G better now than 2 years ago and 4 years ago....?? It has better coaches top to bottom. Ohio State has Butler's coach, Louisville has Xavier's coach and despite what many may believe, those 2 programs are not as strong as before....good news for SHU, but the league overall is weaker.
As far as RU roster make up, we started with Issa Thiam as a holdover from Eddie Jordan and landed Eugene as an August 2016 addition. Most RU fans are fairly confident that the top 8 or 9 players that earn playing time by the time 2019-2020, will be good enough to get things improved here.
As much as I don't mind back and forth with SHU fans, i truly didn't like a lot of SHU past players for obvious reasons. But I don't have a blinded hatred for any one program. I like SHU rosters and i like the make up of how Willard has sacrificed talent for the best fit.
Gone are the overhyped Walker, who can't play at this level and graduating Rodriguez and Carrington gives the roster a chance to breathe. Cale is starting to play and the recruits are hard working kids at the HS level.
RU and SHU in 2019 at the RAC and 2020 at Prudential Center has the makings of a true game of expectations on both sides. A couple of recruits added for each will be very fun.
People here do not understand that it’s way more fun to completely panic after we lose Fordham. You are completely right about being patient. After the way RU competed in the B1G tournament last year, you would think fans would be sold on Pike. Willard has worked out because there is something to be said about consistency. Consistency is big. You don’t fire a coach because we lost to Fordham and struggles verse Columbia. We have to stay the course and improve the roster. It clearly worked out well at SHU
I agree that you need to attract great coaches to attract the players, but the best coach from either league is still sitting comfortably in his office in Philadelphia. Mack went home to Louisville, but history shows that Butler and Xavier reload with great coaches.
Not buying into the St.John’s hype yet because they haven’t really played anybody, but Mullin is also attracting talent and they are going to be ranked next year if not this.
SHU and RU always play tight games, except for the recent blowouts, and I don’t expect that to change even if the talent gap is still wide.
I like Pike a lot, but at some point you have to win more than four BIG10 games and get out of the basement. I like the type of talent that Willard is recruiting. Nelson and Rhoden are very talented, tough kids with high BB IQ.
One of the biggest hurdles RU has this year is the 20 game conference schedule. Yes, they have to get out of the basement. I just don’t see it this year. It takes time to turnover the roster and have the ability to compete night in and night out against the big. I don’t think there is a bottom in the B1G this year. It’s very deep. We need to continue to develop our players and turn the roster over. Willard did a really good job of this. You guys lost a lot of talent last year, but you have guys like Powell and Cale who has stepped up. That’s impressive. RU is not quite at the point where we can lose Sanders and slide someone in to replace him. Don’t tell our fans that because somehow scoring 90 on FDU convinced everyone that “ball movement” would be better without him.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I agree we need more city kids. Were a soft team, too many nice guys. I want some meannnn dudes
Villanova has advanced past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament only 2 times since 2009. Now they did happen to win it all both those times, but not exactly much of a track record of success. It's an interesting analysis as Wright was seen as a tournament underachiever for much of his career until recently, but even his 2 titles were sandwiched around getting bounced as a 1 seed by 8 seed Wisconsin.
Hall85, I agree 100%.
We all like Pike. He is a genuine nice guy and clearly working hard to turn this around. But you are correct. This is his third season. Patience is one thing but he has to get this team out of the BIG10 basement soon.
When he was hired I asked him how long it would take to get to the NCAA tourney and he told me without hesitation two years.
That was probably coach speech but he wasn't close on that prediction.
This has been a good discussion.
SHU has been the better program historically.
Can Rutgers turn it around?
We all hope so but we are part of a good conference of which it's not an easy task to jump over other schools.
Tradition at RU does not make this task any easier.
I don't want to think of remaining in the cellar again next season.
Another year at the bottom and Pike will be feeling the heat.
It's all about recruiting.
If Pike can't get this done then I don't know what the answer is.
What I do know is I am tired of the drought continuing.
27 years and counting...
Tell me a coach you would rather have from either league that is better than Jay. He’s a great coach that is now able to attract delete talent every year. That’s what got him over the top.
Well I’m clearly keeping Beilein now that he has found a defense. Izzo has a pretty good argument for a better career.
let's get real, Powell is the difference, if he has a bad game, let's see what happens--also, after some early losses, even SHU "experts" were lamenting their coach and this years potential--typical of fans, they blow with the wind--beating Kentucky was huge,changing perspective
You may not want to hear this, but Patience is the key. I have been a critic of Willard but Lyons made the right decision and stayed with him longer than some A.D.’s might have. Proved me wrong. It takes time to rebuild the program. Pike is moving in the right direction and you may need to stay with him for an extra year or two and give him the time.
I also think Pike has built a very good staff, in fact if you asked me last year I would’ve probably agreed he had the better staff of the two teams. I do like what Wheeler has done there. Sha needed to move on and get head-coaching experience and Hill was over the hill. Skin has paid immediate David N.’s with his Nigerian connections (Obiagu and the kid they are recruiting from Maryland).
I don’t know why people think year three is this benchmark year where significant improvement needs to be made. I get the frustration. I really do. Just look at last year’s roster compared to this year. The roster is better. Pike has a good group of guys he can start developing. We don’t have the upperclassmen that most big ten schools have. Schools like Indiana can go out and grab a guy like Romeo Langford and boom, they’re a tournament team. Unfortunately, that’s not us. However, I think we’re one playmaker away. If Pike can at the very least continue to bring in B1G players, he will get it done. The difference between winning 5 conference games and 10 conference games is not that big. Just put together a solid roster and land a big time scorer.
The value of a point guard is to pass the ball to players that can make shots on a consistent basis.
I jumped onto this and do not understand the hatred for SHU. I graduated from SH in 86’ and bleed Blue. BUT i am a RU fan too, held season tickets during the entire Schiano tenure and am hoping Ash turns out to be the right hire. I route for RU hoops in all games except the annual game with the Pirates.
I was happy when RU jumped to the B10 and that let the BE return to its basketball roots. The B10 is the right conference for them but that does not make it better; just the right fit for a State school with a large student body, budget and alumni base. We graduate 3000 students a year and will never have the #s to draw from to compete with the large State schools. Most of the other BE schools outside of St. John’s and DePaul have similar #s.
Stay the course with your coach and AD. It takes a good 5-6 years to move up the ladder. Good luck the rest of the season, and yes, I wish all a Merry Christmas.
I was happy when RU jumped to the B10 and that let the BE return to its basketball roots. The B10 is the right conference for them but that does not make it better; just the right fit for a State school with a large student body, budget and alumni base. We graduate 3000 students a year and will never have the #s to draw from to compete with the large State schools. Most of the other BE schools outside of St. John’s and DePaul have similar #s.
Stay the course with your coach and AD. It takes a good 5-6 years to move up the ladder. Good luck the rest of the season, and yes, I wish all a Merry Christmas.
SHU has a much better tradition than RU because RU’s tradition unfortunately has been dismal. Pike has got RU on the right track finally. He’s not the type to implode like Bannon and Rice. You guys need to have patience with him. Your program was in a terrible state when he took the reins so it might take five or six years to reach the NCAA’s. Also, he’s a real hard guy to root against.
Almost as bad as trying to read your screen name. Lol
We have been hearing / reading this for the last 20 + years
Wow winning those 2 national championships isn’t much of a track record of success? Jeez what’s a coach to do?
He had 2 great runs. Hats off to his teams for that. But if you give credit for those, gotta give equal blame for the frequent underachieving.
