Apparently the state budget proposal has 10M to research building a light rail around RU

[NotInRHouse]

Was someone reading this board? Barchi op-ed says:

Legislation is quickly heading to Gov. Phil Murphy's desk that would dedicate $10 million to NJ Transit for initial planning for a light rail that would connect East Brunswick, New Brunswick, Piscataway and South Plainfield. This marks an important transportation investment in central New Jersey that will benefit the region for decades to come.

Assembly Speaker Craig Coughlin, D-Middlesex, played an important role in including funding for the light-rail study. That shows a new and commendable commitment from leaders in Trenton to serious and consistent investments in mass transit that for too long have been lacking. Senate President Steve Sweeney, D-Gloucester, who sponsored one of the bills naming Transportation Trust Fund priorities, has been equally engaged in expanding light rail from Rutgers-Camden to Glassboro.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf..._would_be_a_boon_to_ce.html#incart_river_home

This would be a game changer but I've never seen anyone in a position of power discuss it.

I know this board could probably come up with some nice suggestions.

 

[Korbermeister]

I'm 100% all for this but South Plainfield?

 

[NotInRHouse]

I'm 100% all for this but South Plainfield?

I thought that too. Would have to go north of Stelton Road- for example Red Robin and White Castle are in South Plainfield.

I always imagined a northern terminus would be around Metlars/Stelton intersection where there is all that open land and they could build a park and ride, which would be useful to South Plainfield commuters, but not actually in the town.

 

[brianoc]

Coughlin is from South Plainfield I believe

 

[Korbermeister]

Aah... Let's hope J. D. Ville from the Pine Barrens isn't endorsing this idea

 

[Korbermeister]

I thought that too. Would have to go north of Stelton Road- for example Red Robin and White Castle are in South Plainfield.

I always imagined a northern terminus would be around Metlars/Stelton intersection where there is all that open land and they could build a park and ride, which would be useful to South Plainfield commuters, but not actually in the town.

Hmm... How much land does he own in so. Plainfield

 

[RUseaweed]

Let's put an over under on how much the study will say such a light rail will cost. I'll set it at $3.2B.

 

[Zak57]

They might as well throw Old Bridge in there also. Can go right to the border on 18 with Monmouth County.

 

[retired711]

The statement about Glassboro to Rutgers-Camden is just a shout-out to Sweeney. Nothing has happened for years that would bring about such a light rail line.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

Rutgers needs this badly. The bus system is inefficient and a huge deterrent for perspective students. Would dramatically increase the quality of life for RU students and reduce traffic which therefore would dramatically increase the citizens and employees of the area as well.

Logistically that long of a line would be difficult though. RU would need something that comes very frequently to serve students going to/from classes. And it would need stops in already developed areas which cannot be cheap or easy to do.

At least Barchi is putting it out there. Which is a good small step forward.

 

[retired711]

Rutgers needs this badly. The bus system is inefficient and a huge deterrent for perspective students. Would dramatically increase the quality of life for RU students and reduce traffic which therefore would dramatically increase the citizens and employees of the area as well.

Logistically that long of a line would be difficult though. RU would need something that comes very frequently to serve students going to/from classes. And it would need stops in already developed areas which cannot be cheap or easy to do.

At least Barchi is putting it out there. Which is a good small step forward.

The Trenton-Camden light rail runs every half hour. It would be difficult to coordinate that with the ends and beginnings of classes. And I wonder if the system would have enough cars to manage a surge of students.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

The Trenton-Camden light rail runs every half hour. It would be difficult to coordinate that with the ends and beginnings of classes. And I wonder if the system would have enough cars to manage a surge of students.

Every 30 min would be would pretty much be useless to get the Piscataway/NB population around in a timely manner given that classes are constantly ending/beginning at random time slots depending on which campus you're on.

That's my worry about proposing a solution that tries to service many constituents. It ends up hitting only some of the objectives for each, but is ultimately not convenient to anyone.

 

[Korbermeister]

They might as well throw Old Bridge in there also. Can go right to the border on 18 with Monmouth County.

I have a hard time imagining old bridge residents wanting any public transit because crime will increase

 

[Korbermeister]

The Trenton-Camden light rail runs every half hour. It would be difficult to coordinate that with the ends and beginnings of classes. And I wonder if the system would have enough cars to manage a surge of students.

It would have to. Why build it if enough cars aren't out into use??

 

[NotInRHouse]

The Trenton-Camden light rail runs every half hour. It would be difficult to coordinate that with the ends and beginnings of classes. And I wonder if the system would have enough cars to manage a surge of students.

I think this would run more like the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail as it's in a dense area as well. Between Camden and Trenton, isn't the River Line mostly suburban?

 

[NotInRHouse]

They might as well throw Old Bridge in there also. Can go right to the border on 18 with Monmouth County.

I was thinking the East Brunswick terminus would be on Ryders Lane just south of 1 where there is open space not far from Douglass on the west side of the road.

That would be quite the extension to Old Bridge.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The statement about Glassboro to Rutgers-Camden is just a shout-out to Sweeney. Nothing has happened for years that would bring about such a light rail line.

Has it been approved? I know we have light rail stops up here that get approved by NJT but then they wait to build until a developer agrees to pay for it.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Coughlin is from South Plainfield I believe

I thought this at first but looks like he's from Woodbridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Coughlin

I think we were thinking of Diegnan...and I think he's familiar because IIRC his wife was involved in designing a RU logo...but I'm not 100% on this. Someone older than me may remember

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Diegnan

 

[DJ Spanky]

They should study building a monorail instead!

 

[Zak57]

I was thinking the East Brunswick terminus would be on Ryders Lane just south of 1 where there is open space not far from Douglass on the west side of the road.

That would be quite the extension to Old Bridge.

That makes more sense. I'm just thinking large.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

They should study building a monorail instead!

Monorails can be ugly. So from that aspect I'm not a fan.

But logistically building a light rail in existing urban dense areas probably costs 4x more and is logistically a nightmare so probably also takes 2-3x as long.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

And upon typing "monorails at colleges" into google, I've come upon some sort of document that is a proposal of a monorail at RU...

https://nbstratplan.rutgers.edu/sites/nbstratplan/files/Monorail System - RU Knight Rail.pdf

Seems like this proposal was part of the New Brunswick campus strategic plan

 

[ScarletKid2008]

And as far as light rails go, seems like no schools have their "own" but a few are serviced by light rails in the general city

http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_lrt_2005-12b.htm

I am aware that WVU has something that is essentially a monorail/light rail. Not sure why that doesn't appear on this list which calls into question the scope of what they consider "light rail"

 

[RU MAN]

Aah... Let's hope J. D. Ville from the Pine Barrens isn't endorsing this idea

[roll]

 

[RU MAN]

They should study building a monorail instead!

I like the idea of a monorail too, but if a light rail is less costly, then so be it. Regardless, I agree with the OP, this would be a game changer for students getting around the various campuses in NB.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I like the idea of a monorail too, but if a light rail is less costly, then so be it. Regardless, I agree with the OP, this would be a game changer for students getting around the various campuses in NB.

I think a light rail would be more costly and would take longer. As someone alluded to, gaining the right-of-way for a ground rail system will take a lot more time and money, particularly when it gets into the courts.

 

[RU MAN]

I think a light rail would be more costly and would take longer. As someone alluded to, gaining the right-of-way for a ground rail system will take a lot more time and money, particularly when it gets into the courts.

Spanky I understand. But regardless, the powers that be cannot turn this into a ten year study and then take another five years to build it.

 

[e5fdny]

I’d settle for a direct connection of 18 and 287 up here and and some better roads (beef up 322 maybe?) and a more direct way to get to/from the Turnpike for Rowan.

 

[retired711]

I think this would run more like the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail as it's in a dense area as well. Between Camden and Trenton, isn't the River Line mostly suburban?

I'm not sure "suburban" is the word. The Camden to Trenton line mostly runs though down-at-the-heels small towns along the Delaware River. These towns usually have some nice houses along the river, and the rest of them aren't impressive. The commercial area is usually part of the huge strip mall along Route 130.

 

[RUnTeX]

Depending on the alignments that will be studied, I just see a whole lot of NIMBY outcry at the local/community level to kill something as intensive as a light rail system would be, despite however beneficial it might be at a regional level. Acquiring the ROW will be expensive for those property owners who might be willing to play ball.

I'd like to think a route that may be a bit more feasible in terms of going through more industrial areas would be to take it from Piscataway and out to Edison (as opposed to So. Plainfield) and tie it into the NJT rail station as a transfer point, just as I imagine there would be at the NB station. Or perhaps out past Piscataway to Bound Brook or Dunnellen along the RV line.

The main problem I see for a light rail solution in the context of the greater NB area (and by default the Rutgers campuses) is that it in general I see light rail working much better and being more successful in a more dense, urban environment because it typically travels at the slowest speed compared to other forms of rail. A geographically-tighter light rail system with stops every few blocks connecting areas within a city is the appropriate application (and NB probably doesn't demand that), not just a couple stops across one city/town and then stretching for miles across other to another town, etc. The latter seems better served by a heavier rail system such as NJT commuter rail as a regional corridor solution. But such a system may not be demanded in the greater NB area or northern/central Midd'x Co. either. And the NEC line already serves some demand along its corridor with onward service to larger destination hubs up in Newark and NYC, thus having greater impact.

A monorail system that serves the Rutgers campuses with short/moderate headways and tied in (as best as possible) to class timings would appear to be a better fix to the intercampus travel issue for students/faculty/staff, along with a fleet of shuttle buses supporting intracampus circulation within each of the four campuses. The ancillary benefit is that it would take some traffic off area roadways to ease congestion from commuters and local residents.

 

[Korbermeister]

If they're going to tout 'a boon to central nj' then they have to, at least connect it to the RV & shore rail lines iI

They should study building a monorail instead!

Depending on the alignments that will be studied, I just see a whole lot of NIMBY outcry at the local/community level to kill something as intensive as a light rail system would be, despite however beneficial it might be at a regional level. Acquiring the ROW will be expensive for those property owners who might be willing to play ball.

I'd like to think a route that may be a bit more feasible in terms of going through more industrial areas would be to take it from Piscataway and out to Edison (as opposed to So. Plainfield) and tie it into the NJT rail station as a transfer point, just as I imagine there would be at the NB station. Or perhaps out past Piscataway to Bound Brook or Dunnellen along the RV line.

The main problem I see for a light rail solution in the context of the greater NB area (and by default the Rutgers campuses) is that it in general I see light rail working much better and being more successful in a more dense, urban environment because it typically travels at the slowest speed compared to other forms of rail. A geographically-tighter light rail system with stops every few blocks connecting areas within a city is the appropriate application (and NB probably doesn't demand that), not just a couple stops across one city/town and then stretching for miles across other to another town, etc. The latter seems better served by a heavier rail system such as NJT commuter rail as a regional corridor solution. But such a system may not be demanded in the greater NB area or northern/central Midd'x Co. either. And the NEC line already serves some demand along its corridor with onward service to larger destination hubs up in Newark and NYC, thus having greater impact.

A monorail system that serves the Rutgers campuses with short/moderate headways and tied in (as best as possible) to class timings would appear to be more of a fix to the intercampus travel issue for students/faculty/staff, along with a fleet of shuttle buses supporting intracampus circulation within each of the four campuses.

There'd be little reason to acquire much land if they also use existing roads. And I don't see light rail making much difference in new Brunswick if it isn't.elevated.
. One of the major expenditures would be for a new bridge over the raritan. I'm thinking they could replace the fancy but unneesssry proposed ped bridge over the raritan and thru the preserve with a light rail/bike & ped bridge combo

 

[RUnTeX]

I'm not sure "suburban" is the word. The Camden to Trenton line mostly runs though down-at-the-heels small towns along the Delaware River. These towns usually have some nice houses along the river, and the rest of them aren't impressive. The commercial area is usually part of the huge strip mall along Route 130.

I was always skeptical of the River Line light rail because in mind, as I explained above, it just seems like it's trying to connect too far of a distance for the type of system built and it is unable to do it in a reasonable time. It's another case of where perhaps commuter rail on dedicated ROW (not sure in that case how difficult it would've been to pull off) would make more sense to move people efficiently between points. At-grade light rail (often requisite with traffic light stops as well as the potential automobile/pedestrian conflicts) usually travels too slow, for safety reasons, to be meaningful for regional commuters.

 

[RUnTeX]

If they're going to tout 'a boon to central nj' then they have to, at least connect it to the RV & shore rail lines iI


There'd be little reason to acquire much land if they also use existing roads. And I don't see light rail making much difference in new Brunswick if it isn't.elevated.
. One of the major expenditures would be for a new bridge over the raritan. I'm thinking they could replace the fancy but unneesssry proposed ped bridge over the raritan and thru the preserve with a light rail/bike & ped bridge combo

In terms of land acquisition, I'm thinking of frontage of properties that may be needed in order to widen existing roadway rights-of-way, in order to fit the light rail tracks alignment in the center, thus pushing the vehicular lanes to the outside.

As far as elevated track system, I agree and that's primarily what I suggested as a monorail system would entail. Traditionally, a light rail system is an at-grade facility, not elevated.

 

[Korbermeister]

In terms of land acquisition, I'm thinking of frontage of properties that may be needed in order to widen existing roadway rights-of-way, in order to fit the light rail tracks alignment in the center, thus pushing the vehicular lanes to the outside.

As far as elevated track system, I agree and that's primarily what I suggested as a monorail system would entail. Traditionally, a light rail system is an at-grade facility, not elevated.

I mention elevated light rail because of the HB in Jersey City has a portion that is elevated, to pass over a drive way and to cross the Morris canal basin in to the hoboken terminal. I fear monorail because of the issues with the one @ EWR. A proprietary system that lacks speed

 

[RUnTeX]

I mention elevated light rail because of the HB in Jersey City has a portion that is elevated, to pass over a drive way and to cross the Morris canal basin in to the hoboken terminal.

Gotcha, fair enough. There are definitely instances in many light rail systems where there's a need for elevated segments of track. In that respect, they're similar to roads/highways which are usually on the ground but elevated in some sections.

 

[retired711]

I was always skeptical of the River Line light rail because in mind, as I explained above, it just seems like it's trying to connect too far of a distance for the type of system built and it is unable to do it in a reasonable time. It's another case of where perhaps commuter rail on dedicated ROW (not sure in that case how difficult it would've been to pull off) would make more sense to move people efficiently between points. At-grade light rail (often requisite with traffic light stops as well as the potential automobile/pedestrian conflicts) usually travels too slow, for safety reasons, to be meaningful for regional commuters.

The system makes no transit sense and was a sop to an important Republican leader in Burlington County. Not that many people commute along the line, or connect at Camden into Philadelphia. The money could have been used for a Gloucester County line to Camden, which makes more sense.

 

[rutgers0423]

Needs to connect to the shore. Takes too long to get from the shore to NB via train

 

[Korbermeister]

Needs to connect to the shore. Takes too long to get from the shore to NB via train

The solution isn't to build another Jersey shore train but to upgrade and maintain the current one

 

[Korbermeister]

In terms of land acquisition, I'm thinking of frontage of properties that may be needed in order to widen existing roadway rights-of-way, in order to fit the light rail tracks alignment in the center, thus pushing the vehicular lanes to the outside.

As far as elevated track system, I agree and that's primarily what I suggested as a monorail system would entail. Traditionally, a light rail system is an at-grade facility, not elevated.

From what I remember, land acquisition for that purpose would largely be avoided by having the north and south routes through downtown Brunswick on separate street , George and neilson sts.